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So with the beta deep strike rule putting a kibosh on the "Advance ColdStar then Manta Strike Shield Drones next to them" strat, do QFB Coldstars still have any reason to be?

If you advance up and shoot, all well and good but you're dead next turn for sure. If you can do ~200 points of damage that's a fair trade but still, might be better off just Manta Striking an Iridium Commander turn 2 instead?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So with the beta deep strike rule putting a kibosh on the "Advance ColdStar then Manta Strike Shield Drones next to them" strat, do QFB Coldstars still have any reason to be?

If you advance up and shoot, all well and good but you're dead next turn for sure. If you can do ~200 points of damage that's a fair trade but still, might be better off just Manta Striking an Iridium Commander turn 2 instead?

I think a T’au Sept one still has good options, depending on your army.

I was thinking – give it the JSJ relic and have it shoot up the table to where a Stealth Suit unit and/or Ghostkeel is deployed.

It can then likely nuke something, then jump back behind/into range of the Ghostkeels drones. Not as survivable as having 10 drones, but, it’s an option.

Simple answer is yes they still have a reason to be, but how you use them will need a tweak.
Coldstar commanders atleast to me were never suicide units, that 40" move with bs2+ is too good to throw away turn 1 on a suicide mission. It's more powerful turn 2 onwards where it can pick on isolated tanks/monsters and that move stat can be clutch for stealing objectives later on.
Especially tau JSJ relic ones as that 40inch forward and 6 inch after shooting.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So with the beta deep strike rule putting a kibosh on the "Advance ColdStar then Manta Strike Shield Drones next to them" strat, do QFB Coldstars still have any reason to be?

If you advance up and shoot, all well and good but you're dead next turn for sure. If you can do ~200 points of damage that's a fair trade but still, might be better off just Manta Striking an Iridium Commander turn 2 instead?

You can just keep your commander back to pop kauyon turn one, then boost him up turn two to meet up with a drone unit.

The tactic has just been delayed by a turn.

A turn’s delay is quite a big deal though.

I’m not sure that a turn 1 kauyon is all that good. The enemy will mostly be at long range. It’s a big help for stormsurges and broadsides, so that starts to dictate a static gun line. That might not be too bad as a strategy. If you’ve gone second though a turn 1 kauyon is great - unless it catches guys who are locked in combat and means they can’t fall back.

I’m trying to decide if hammerheads fit with this approach. I don’t think they do really, but maybe they’re good enough that it doesn’t matter.

The thing I’ve learned from playing Tau a very long time is that you need all of your guns shooting on turn 1. You can’t afford to leave anything significant off board when the enemy is racing at your lines. I think this means crisis suits are out of the picture completely right now.

If a commander is sat back calling kauyon then I think he either needs to be armed with missile pods, so he can contribute a bit, or using the cnc node strat on something big, like 3 broadsides or a riptide. Otherwise I think it’s not okto have a model like that sit out turn 1.

Are we forgetting that drones only became able to deep strike when the codex dropped? Commanders were still the hotbess before that, as I recall. Advancing shield drones should still be able to cover Coldstars that move out of your DZ if you don't simply floor it forward. We had that fleeting moment of deep striking drone fortress goodness, but now you've got to be a little more thoughtful about how you get your Coldstars into the mix.

People do realise that Quad Fusion Commanders still shoot 4 S8 Shots at 18” range right? Sure it’s not the major damage you do within 9” but it’ll still make a big dent in most targets. I’d rather do slightly reduced damage T1/2 and still get T3/4/5 rather than go all out T1 and get my head taken off.

Overall I think that losing the option to deep strike on turn 1 is balanced out by being able to fly 20”, fire 18”, then fall back 6”. You aren’t going to be spamming commanders, but the one or two you do bring will be a lot better.

The other compensation is that other stuff across the army got better. It might not be quite up there with commanders but it’s still very powerful. And any drop off in our alpha strike is mitigated by a much bigger fall for other people.

There’s arguably still a case for deep striking marker drones into your deployment zone on turn 1, maybe with an IA riptide. You stay safe on turn 1 if the other guy goes first.

One niche use for Crisis suits might be 3 of them with 3 CIBs each. Put them in Manta Strike. If you go first, you hold them until turn 2 and then drop them, but if you go second, your opponent will likely be moving toward you and so dropping in your deployment zone will still allow the suits to do some defensive work. Not a great strategy as Crisis are still horribly overcosted, but it might be a niche thing you could do.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
One niche use for Crisis suits might be 3 of them with 3 CIBs each. Put them in Manta Strike. If you go first, you hold them until turn 2 and then drop them, but if you go second, your opponent will likely be moving toward you and so dropping in your deployment zone will still allow the suits to do some defensive work. Not a great strategy as Crisis are still horribly overcosted, but it might be a niche thing you could do.

I think its worth exploring 3 CIBs with a bank of shield drones.
They do okay damage wise - but without protection they are a points pinata for almost every unit in the game (and its horrible against certain things).

I'm all for exploring unappreciated units' uses, but I think Crisis Suits are dead in the water until they get a price cut. CIBs are definitely the weapon of choice for them if you choose to give them a shot, but as mentioned, they're going to need a lot of protection.

Their best use is still in a bomb, which may well require a turn of chaff-clearing to be effective anyway. If you want to run them, go that route because they're crazy fragile for the cost any other way.

So, the faq helped the Tau, overall ? They haven't been touched (buffed or nerfed) when several threats have been nerfed ?

 godardc wrote:
So, the faq helped the Tau, overall ? They haven't been touched (buffed or nerfed) when several threats have been nerfed ?

Manta striking took a beta nerf as have deepstriking drones in to support fast moving suits. But I can live with that for the turn of actual shooting instead of 1 turn of overwatch.

Also the rull of three is a pain for things like marksmen max 3 per army and drones where you dont really want them in larger units due to moral, but as suit upgrades they turn into easy VP's for unit kills.

They haven't been as effected as some other list but i really don't want to see armies like demons totally exempted from beta rules as it's once again going to force the boring as feck play style of Tau sept castle and hope you can kill enough via overwatch.

I think the faq is pretty good for Tau. The downside is that it’s pretty much the final nail in the coffin for commander spam. The upside is that lots of really nasty threats are far less of a problem.

Tau have a Codex with decent internal blanace - with some glaring exceptions. Crisis suits already looked bad, and now they can’t even show up on time. No thanks! They need a really serious price cut to be anything like viable. They should obviously pay less for their guns than commanders do as well.

The good news is that we can use that spread of good units to build a capable combined arms list. We can go mech or spam FWs on foot. The big suits all seem to work. We get cheap stuff if we want CPs.

It all seems to work out pretty well basically.

Commander spam was dead and buried when the codex dropped at max 1 per detachment. The rule of three doesn't even remotely effect commanders. Ok it maybe spat on commander spams grave but it had no real bearing

I would really like to run an all battlesuit list. I know it won't be the most competitive but I would like to use just battlesuits and drones. From the reading I have done, it sounds like Coldstar commanders, riptide, ghost keels, stealth suits, yvahra, and broadsides. In higher point games I'd like to bring a stormsurge or Supremacy, any experience with either? And lots and lots of drones.

I know that by only taking battlesuits I will hamstring my list. I don't really care. So feel free to tell me I need to take troops, I won't.

Thanks for any help!

stangfan94 wrote:
I would really like to run an all battlesuit list. I know it won't be the most competitive but I would like to use just battlesuits and drones. From the reading I have done, it sounds like Coldstar commanders, riptide, ghost keels, stealth suits, yvahra, and broadsides. In higher point games I'd like to bring a stormsurge or Supremacy, any experience with either? And lots and lots of drones.

I know that by only taking battlesuits I will hamstring my list. I don't really care. So feel free to tell me I need to take troops, I won't.

Thanks for any help!

I think you have a great core there already. Sounds super fun!

stangfan94 wrote:
I would really like to run an all battlesuit list. I know it won't be the most competitive but I would like to use just battlesuits and drones. From the reading I have done, it sounds like Coldstar commanders, riptide, ghost keels, stealth suits, yvahra, and broadsides. In higher point games I'd like to bring a stormsurge or Supremacy, any experience with either? And lots and lots of drones.

I know that by only taking battlesuits I will hamstring my list. I don't really care. So feel free to tell me I need to take troops, I won't.

Thanks for any help!

Sounds pretty straightforward. Just take something like 5 Riptides/Ghostkeels, throw in some Commanders and drones, and see how it works. Basically the Tau mecha version of an IG tank company.

What you will hurt for is CP alot. You probably need atleast one detachment from the +1CP faction, puretide will be mandatory.
Drones will need a controller to boost your chances of having marker lights
A stormsurge isn't bad, ewo will help you with deepstrikers.
Supremacy suit is just short of 2k on its own in points

A sacea battalion would help a lot.

Commander
Fireblade

3x5 strikes with markerlight

Easy 5 CP and you're paying just over 100 pts for the fireblade+strikes to get 5cp. Gets you 4 markerlights that can reroll to hit. Add 3 more marksmen and you're at 7 markerlights and 5cp for under 200 pts (Not counting commander). Also gives access to the sacea strat for AoE markerlight

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
A sacea battalion would help a lot.

Commander
Fireblade

3x5 strikes with markerlight

Easy 5 CP and you're paying just over 100 pts for the fireblade+strikes to get 5cp. Gets you 4 markerlights that can reroll to hit. Add 3 more marksmen and you're at 7 markerlights and 5cp for under 200 pts (Not counting commander). Also gives access to the sacea strat for AoE markerlight

The poster already addressed this as a no go in their post. Honestly, guys, reading isn't that hard

Lemondish wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
A sacea battalion would help a lot.

Commander
Fireblade

3x5 strikes with markerlight

Easy 5 CP and you're paying just over 100 pts for the fireblade+strikes to get 5cp. Gets you 4 markerlights that can reroll to hit. Add 3 more marksmen and you're at 7 markerlights and 5cp for under 200 pts (Not counting commander). Also gives access to the sacea strat for AoE markerlight

The poster already addressed this as a no go in their post. Honestly, guys, reading isn't that hard

I do appreciate the advice even if I'm not going to follow it. I will keep in mind if I ever want to go more competitive. I'm starting from scratch so I will be building the army slowly. The meta changes so fast that I only want to get models I like and in about a year or two, troops would be necessary like they are now.

Thank you everyone for your input so far. I figured I would go storm surge first before supremacy but damn they're both cool models.

The Ta'unar is an amazing model. It's just not practical to field since it's so ridiculously expensive. I definitely like the idea of an all-suit list, but as others have said, you're going to have CP problems. If you look through the thread, you'll see that most lists are essentially all suits with bare minimum fire warriors to fill battalions, but that's neither here nor there. If you lean on units that aren't hungry for CP like Ghostkeels, Stealth Suits, Stormsurges, and Commanders, you'll have a functional army.

Sort of related to going all battlesuits, but why do some people like stealth suits?

Because from a pure theory standpoint they do poor damage vs the bulk of targets (the one fusion blaster is okay vs vehicles I guess).

Is the idea that you infiltrate them up into cover, preferably on a mid-table objective, and then they just sit there all game? The issue is if they are contesting an objective outside of cover they are not that difficult to kill - although I guess almost everything else represents a more tempting target.

Tyel wrote:
Sort of related to going all battlesuits, but why do some people like stealth suits?

Because from a pure theory standpoint they do poor damage vs the bulk of targets (the one fusion blaster is okay vs vehicles I guess).

Is the idea that you infiltrate them up into cover, preferably on a mid-table objective, and then they just sit there all game? The issue is if they are contesting an objective outside of cover they are not that difficult to kill - although I guess almost everything else represents a more tempting target.

Tau is an army without any psychic powers nor can they engage in the combat phase except when using it for movement. Tau HAVE to shoot the enemy off the table in order to do damage. Our options in melee is to fall back and shoot more. So if you’re playing against a smart opponent who will crack your screen by tieing down your screens by getting surrounded and tied up.

Enter the Stealth Suit. This unit is seriously a life saver to the classic Tau gun line, as they give you a good form of push back, screening, and deep strike protection that isn’t vulnerable to the classic issue of getting trapped in combat.

Not only do stealth suits have the lovely fly key word and infiltrate which is already a very winning combo, but they’re also fairly tough to kill at range. They have -1 to hit and 3+ armor with 2 wounds, which is fairly tough, but then coupled with how easy it is for infantry to get cover they can be a pain to shift. They're the best unit for protecting your gunlines from one of Tau's biggest counter - melee tieing you up in your deployment zone.

I second all of the above and would add that in Viorla, they're also reasonably fast at 8+d6" move (since advancing has essentially no penalty for them). They're also very nice for protecting Commanders that want to scoot forward out of range of saviour protocols. They're in a sweet spot where they're tough to kill for the cost and do enough damage to be a pain but not enough to warrant removing instantly, shifting your opponent's target priority.

For T'au sept their overwatch is almost as strong as their shooting.

They're really pretty durable with the -1 to hit and W2, as well.

Stealth suits are absolute money right now. They are reasonably cheap and much more durable than they seem since they have that -1 to hit (which also works against melee attacks. As long as your opponent isn't hitting them with a full unit of Berzerkers they can weather a fair amount of attacks or at least keep some of your opponent's guns from shooting your more valuable stuff. Ghostkeels are okay at this too, but not as much since there is a range limit on their -1 (which prevents it from working in melee). I've used Stealths and Ghostkeels against Guard and they were very much a troll unit, not doing a whole lot of damage but able to soak a ton of fire.

Juts played a game against Tau and was tabled turn 3.

Anyway, he played a Character (on foot, not suit) who carried a Homing Beacon, said it was a FW unit and I cannot find it listed (in battlescribe) anywhere... So help me out.

What was he using?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Juts played a game against Tau and was tabled turn 3.

Anyway, he played a Character (on foot, not suit) who carried a Homing Beacon, said it was a FW unit and I cannot find it listed (in battlescribe) anywhere... So help me out.

What was he using?

No such model exists in 8th edition as far as I can see.