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Anyway, he played a Character (on foot, not suit) who carried a Homing Beacon, said it was a FW unit and I cannot find it listed (in battlescribe) anywhere... So help me out.
What was he using?
No such model exists in 8th edition as far as I can see.
This. Forge World doesn't even sell non-battlesuit Tau infantry, and I doubt they have a character in one of their books without a model.
Sounds like you got cheated Nightlord.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 12:36:33
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Anyway, he played a Character (on foot, not suit) who carried a Homing Beacon, said it was a FW unit and I cannot find it listed (in battlescribe) anywhere... So help me out.
What was he using?
No such model exists in 8th edition as far as I can see.
This. Forge World doesn't even sell non-battlesuit Tau infantry, and I doubt they have a character in one of their books without a model.
Sounds like you got cheated Nightlord.
Yea, found it, it's a Wargame Exclusive model, and I even had a second player intervene for a rules clarification and he told us both it was a FW unit. A previous game he had claimed his FW drones gave +1 BS to nearby units as well. This is why FW gets a bad reputation as a Boogieman for bad gamers. Thanks for the input. I think I'll pass on a game against this player.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 14:05:18
Anyway, he played a Character (on foot, not suit) who carried a Homing Beacon, said it was a FW unit and I cannot find it listed (in battlescribe) anywhere... So help me out.
What was he using?
No such model exists in 8th edition as far as I can see.
This. Forge World doesn't even sell non-battlesuit Tau infantry, and I doubt they have a character in one of their books without a model.
Sounds like you got cheated Nightlord.
Yea, found it, it's a Wargame Exclusive model, and I even had a second player intervene for a rules clarification and he told us both it was a FW unit. A previous game he had claimed his FW drones gave +1 BS to nearby units as well. This is why FW gets a bad reputation as a Boogieman for bad gamers. Thanks for the input. I think I'll pass on a game against this player.
Yeah, I'm really sorry you ran into a player like this. Those rules don't exist in 8th.
Edit: Though to clarify, this player isn't making gak up entirely. In 7th there was an ethereal special character unit called Aun'do with a homing beacon iirc. I imagine there used to be some drone that did what he claims. This is a constant problem with people thinking the edition didn't change every unit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 15:37:42
Learn to say “show me the rule”. Otherwise people can cheat, or just as often make genuine mistakes. Both spoil games.
The tricky thing is where they say they don’t have the book that it’s in, but can remember it somehow. They can go and look for a game elsewhere.
Since switching to digital rules I’ve got the advantage that I actually have all the rules on my iPad, and can download the relevant FAQs. That makes this kind of BS a lot harder to pull.
Learn to say “show me the rule”. Otherwise people can cheat, or just as often make genuine mistakes. Both spoil games.
The tricky thing is where they say they don’t have the book that it’s in, but can remember it somehow. They can go and look for a game elsewhere.
Since switching to digital rules I’ve got the advantage that I actually have all the rules on my iPad, and can download the relevant FAQs. That makes this kind of BS a lot harder to pull.
He was included in the Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn boxed set. This was also a special formation. Aun'do used the same model as the current Ethereal on hover drone, and could run a homing beacon. I could understand folks thinking units they used from 7th have similar rules in 8th, but they should really be asked to produce the data sheet, especially if you're going to go ahead and grab a wargames exclusive model for this particular character.
Still no idea what the drone thing was, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 17:05:08
Thanks for the responses on the Stealth Suits. Do you still think they would be important for getting map control when DS isn't so prevalent?
I am trying to work out if you can justify having Piranhas in a list - and damage wise they are much the same. Stealth suits are a little more expensive, but a lot more survivable.
Tyel wrote: Thanks for the responses on the Stealth Suits. Do you still think they would be important for getting map control when DS isn't so prevalent?
I am trying to work out if you can justify having Piranhas in a list - and damage wise they are much the same. Stealth suits are a little more expensive, but a lot more survivable.
Many things can still deploy close to you or redeploy in turn one.
A screen to push back is as important as it was before.
Tyel wrote: Thanks for the responses on the Stealth Suits. Do you still think they would be important for getting map control when DS isn't so prevalent?
I am trying to work out if you can justify having Piranhas in a list - and damage wise they are much the same. Stealth suits are a little more expensive, but a lot more survivable.
Many things can still deploy close to you or redeploy in turn one.
A screen to push back is as important as it was before.
Well unless you want to be chancey and run ewo on big suits and use them to keep DS chargers back 1 round of ewo and 1 round of 5+ overwatch should leave a lot of things in pain.
Tyel wrote: Thanks for the responses on the Stealth Suits. Do you still think they would be important for getting map control when DS isn't so prevalent?
I am trying to work out if you can justify having Piranhas in a list - and damage wise they are much the same. Stealth suits are a little more expensive, but a lot more survivable.
Stealth Suits are still pretty useful despite the lack of turn 1 deep strike now. They're still super durable in cover against the most common weapons used to clear screens, and with most units having to either footflog, ride in transports, or wait until turn 2 to drop, I feel they're just as important as they were before.
On the other hand, Piranhas are pretty fast and relatively cheap, though less durable than stealth suits. They're a great harasser and are pretty amazing for rapid response in turn 2 and onward when your deepstrike denial may be a bit patchy at that point. That actually makes them better as a secondary screen rather than as your primary one like stealth suits might be. I'm not sure if they'd work well together - I almost always want to fit those fast attack slots with pathfinders or drones, so I feel like Piranhas end up being the first thing cut to make space for something else. Though the access to seeker missiles definitely makes them a nice inclusion...
If you intend to run some, let me know how they do.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/30 20:16:09
Stealth suits are okay. They aren't going to lose the game for yah.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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This list is built with models that I currently have (a friend was very generous and gifted me his old army). I feel like I’m missing something while list building, and I am unsure of what kinds of drones to add to the list. I would like to get this list up to 1500 Pts and then 2000 soon after. Any help and suggestions are appreciated! Thanks
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/30 19:48:06
You have a pretty solid base to start from there I would suggest try to get a few 1k point games in to see what's working and not working for you. As some people prefer big suits, some people prefer infantry. It really depends on the meta your playing in and exactlly how the current faq beta rules and impending codex shake out.
This list is built with models that I currently have (a friend was very generous and gifted me his old army). I feel like I’m missing something while list building, and I am unsure of what kinds of drones to add to the list. I would like to get this list up to 1500 Pts and then 2000 soon after. Any help and suggestions are appreciated! Thanks
first off remember you dont need to be all one sept. each detachment can be different depending one what best fits the units.
first thing i noticed was the lack of targeting systems for that precious ap 1 youre riptide also needs the upgrade to move and shoot as well as the ap 1
i would ditch the sniper drones and add 2 shield drones to each fire warrior sqaud and stealth squad, otherwise you can say good bye to your riptide or ghostkeel turn one.
having 2 fusion commanders is risky if your noting going against a tank army ( necrons crush fusion manders) so i would take one with 3 ion blasters and a targeter.
remember tau are still an amazing codex. the way tau win is to keep our suits alive. and how do we do that? mass firepower and shield drones.
i run a similar list to you as my competitive list.
my last tip is never ever run a sqaud of drones always take 2 as an add on. this stops their puny leadership from causing problems and is a huge reason for the opponent to not shoot them. ( its so easy to overkill a sqaud of 1 or 2 drones.)
most of my new tau games come down to my commanders riptide and ghostkeel, last models standing because of the drones.
sureblade wrote: my last tip is never ever run a sqaud of drones always take 2 as an add on. this stops their puny leadership from causing problems and is a huge reason for the opponent to not shoot them. ( its so easy to overkill a sqaud of 1 or 2 drones.)
This isn't terrible reasoning but for one thing: you will absolutely hemorrhage killpoints. Each little pair of drones is a killpoint. This is a moot point in an objective-based game, but in any other kind of game, this is not necessarily the best way to use drones.
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sureblade wrote: my last tip is never ever run a sqaud of drones always take 2 as an add on. this stops their puny leadership from causing problems and is a huge reason for the opponent to not shoot them. ( its so easy to overkill a sqaud of 1 or 2 drones.)
This isn't terrible reasoning but for one thing: you will absolutely hemorrhage killpoints. Each little pair of drones is a killpoint. This is a moot point in an objective-based game, but in any other kind of game, this is not necessarily the best way to use drones.
I can relate to this so badly, either wargear drones need to be given an exemption from kill points or they need to require the unit plus drones to be killed for the kill point.
As it is you can only win certain game types with an all out table, which isn't easy given tau certainly weren't given a tier 1 offensively OP codex.
Yet I'm sure someone on dakka will correct me on how tau are OP number one tournament place codex soon
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well given the results from the barnyard brawl are out and tau placed 7th overall does anyone have acess to will taylor's list so we can discuss what units work or don't in a competitive setting?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/01 06:22:55
sureblade wrote: my last tip is never ever run a sqaud of drones always take 2 as an add on. this stops their puny leadership from causing problems and is a huge reason for the opponent to not shoot them. ( its so easy to overkill a sqaud of 1 or 2 drones.)
This isn't terrible reasoning but for one thing: you will absolutely hemorrhage killpoints. Each little pair of drones is a killpoint. This is a moot point in an objective-based game, but in any other kind of game, this is not necessarily the best way to use drones.
I can relate to this so badly, either wargear drones need to be given an exemption from kill points or they need to require the unit plus drones to be killed for the kill point.
As it is you can only win certain game types with an all out table, which isn't easy given tau certainly weren't given a tier 1 offensively OP codex.
Yet I'm sure someone on dakka will correct me on how tau are OP number one tournament place codex soon
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well given the results from the barnyard brawl are out and tau placed 7th overall does anyone have acess to will taylor's list so we can discuss what units work or don't in a competitive setting?
From what I understand, that Sa'cea outrider was a mixed sept detachment. Keeps SP intact, but gives you access to the strat, so I guess it works. Interesting choice on the pistols - I wonder if they were of any use. Also happy to see a successful Tau list that doesn't take maximum commanders.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/01 19:03:46
That list in someways isn't that far away from where I would have gone but some of the choices do strike me as a little odd.
2 riptides is fairly standard
Stealths for screening
Pulse pistols? Interested to hear how people think about this as ita not something I've considered.
Broadsides not sold on them but haven't quite figured out if thats me or them.
Fusion star, again standard.
What stikes me is the massive lack of obvious anti tank?
Ice_can wrote: That list in someways isn't that far away from where I would have gone but some of the choices do strike me as a little odd.
2 riptides is fairly standard
Stealths for screening
Pulse pistols? Interested to hear how people think about this as ita not something I've considered.
Broadsides not sold on them but haven't quite figured out if thats me or them.
Fusion star, again standard.
What stikes me is the massive lack of obvious anti tank?
It's not obvious, but the Riptides and Broadsides with the T'au stratagem are pretty great for anti-tank. Hell, even a Strike unit can contribute to plinking a tank to death with the Darkstrider buff and T'au strat giving you +2 to wound, wounding almost every tank on 3s.
I'm eager to hear if the pistols helped at all. I can see a use for them once your Strikers get tied up in melee by cultists or something. Ensures you don't have to fall back and cede board control in order to still fire with everyone.
The Sacea detachment is a little weird to me. I'm not sure what the drones are all about, honestly. Two Riptides seems like an okay-ish choice, but I think I personally would've gone with 2 more missilesides instead. It's more firepower that way but is admittedly a little more static and less durable.
The two things I'm curious of are the pulse pistols and the railfinders. Pulse pistols are just a weird choice, and I wonder if he got any decent use out of them. The railfinders sound awesome in a Tau detachment with Darkstrider, with 4+ mortal wounds and whatnot, but man, wouldn't your opponent make them priority 1? They're super squishy yet potentially pack a brutal punch. Seems like a recipe for first blood to me. I'd be interested in hearing if he actually got to use them.
Otherwise, I don't feel like his list is far off from what we've all been tossing around as powerful lists. I know it looks like he doesn't have a lot of anti-tank, but don't underestimate volume of S5 shots buffed by Focused Fire. That's a lot of wounding on 4+, and high rate of fire is not something vehicles are built to withstand. You'll chop them down fairly quickly.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/01 18:05:58
The player who wrote that list probably forgot about Sept/SP restrictions and played his drones the wrong way for most if the tournament. He could have swapped some Pathfinders around and fixed it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/01 18:56:18
MilkmanAl wrote: The Sacea detachment is a little weird to me. I'm not sure what the drones are all about, honestly. Two Riptides seems like an okay-ish choice, but I think I personally would've gone with 2 more missilesides instead. It's more firepower that way but is admittedly a little more static and less durable.
The two things I'm curious of are the pulse pistols and the railfinders. Pulse pistols are just a weird choice, and I wonder if he got any decent use out of them. The railfinders sound awesome in a Tau detachment with Darkstrider, with 4+ mortal wounds and whatnot, but man, wouldn't your opponent make them priority 1? They're super squishy yet potentially pack a brutal punch. Seems like a recipe for first blood to me. I'd be interested in hearing if he actually got to use them.
Otherwise, I don't feel like his list is far off from what we've all been tossing around as powerful lists. I know it looks like he doesn't have a lot of anti-tank, but don't underestimate volume of S5 shots buffed by Focused Fire. That's a lot of wounding on 4+, and high rate of fire is not something vehicles are built to withstand. You'll chop them down fairly quickly.
The drones were for Saviour Protocols on the rest of the big suits since it was a mixed detachment and were T'au sept. The inclusion of the Ethereal provides buffs to all T'au Empire so he doesn't need to be T'au sept nor would he benefit from either of the tenets. Add the marksman and you have two characters capable of triggering the Sa'cea strat. I think Riptides bring much needed mobility with the option of an 18'' move. I think the reason he brought pistols is also the reason he didn't want to bring more broadsides, but I'm just speculating there.
I wouldn't say pistols are all that weird, to be honest. In a TAC list you're going to face units that push forward and try to tie you down in your deployment by charging. They aren't really trying to kill you - they're trying to crack your screen. You either have to retreat and cede board control, deploy conservatively and cede board control from the start, or deploy spread out to ensure units can't tie down your firebase after they get past the stealth suits. Pistols solve that whole thing. A Strike team with pistols near a Fireblade can shoot 10 Str 5 shots into that combat and stand their ground. In theory I imagine the pistols help ensure your firebase maintains the same deep strike denial throughout the match by not really having to fallback in order to shoot an enemy in combat with your screen. I just want to hear if having that option ended up being more effective
I would think the railfinder team was probably deployed out of los and used the infiltrate move if they get first turn to put the hurt on something big early on. Tis what I've done, and if I lost it early it was probably to los ignoring shooting, which probably should have been trying to crack my screen. I'd like to hear if they survived long enough to make a great return on investment with how cheap they are.
meleti wrote: The player who wrote that list probably forgot about Sept/SP restrictions and played his drones the wrong way for most if the tournament. He could have swapped some Pathfinders around and fixed it.
Naw, it was a mixed detachment. I accidentally didn't include it in the list when copied it. Sacea Ethereal and Marksman for the stratagems while giving up the 1 reroll on the marksman. The drones were Tau for SP.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/05/01 20:09:40
About the pathfinders with rail rifles, yes you can use focus fire to get mortal wounds on a 4+ but I think they are better used before using focus fire. Your broadsides cost 450 and your riptides are 280, they lay down a lot of hurt. You don't want to fire with them first to activate focus fire, you would rather shoot with your 88pt pathfinders to cause that first wound, thus powering up the broadsides and riptides.
We really don't have any cheap, reliable way to start focus fire. If we are trying to bust open a land raider things like firewarriors and stealth suits just don't cut it. Assuming you are lighting up that target with marker lights you are hitting on a 3+ re-roll 1's and with darkstriker you are wounding on 4+ (with 5+ doing a mortal wound). You don't really care how much damage you do, just that you do some damage.
lambsandlions wrote: About the pathfinders with rail rifles, yes you can use focus fire to get mortal wounds on a 4+ but I think they are better used before using focus fire. Your broadsides cost 450 and your riptides are 280, they lay down a lot of hurt. You don't want to fire with them first to activate focus fire, you would rather shoot with your 88pt pathfinders to cause that first wound, thus powering up the broadsides and riptides.
We really don't have any cheap, reliable way to start focus fire. If we are trying to bust open a land raider things like firewarriors and stealth suits just don't cut it. Assuming you are lighting up that target with marker lights you are hitting on a 3+ re-roll 1's and with darkstriker you are wounding on 4+ (with 5+ doing a mortal wound). You don't really care how much damage you do, just that you do some damage.
I think that's what they are probably their for as it just needs to be a wound and its probably our cheapest acess to motral wounds period. The only other option that comes to my mind for starting such a train is a railside, but the pathfinders are way cheaper. And moremarkerlights isn't a bad thing.
Though I keep finding myself feeling like I need to accept I'm going to be short of markerlights turn 2 onwards turn 1 if I go second as pathfinders seem to get removed sharpish by experienced opponents. Is anyone else finding this or just me?
For markerlights I don't really like pathfinders. I would much rather have a Sa'cea vanguard of firesight marksmen. I also like marker lights on my firewarriors. With the marker light stratagem you can average 3 markerlights from a reliable 2+ fireblade or darkstrider. The firesight marksmen should be able to finish the other two marker lights. If you need that last marker hit having a few extra on firewarriors is nice.
lambsandlions wrote: For markerlights I don't really like pathfinders. I would much rather have a Sa'cea vanguard of firesight marksmen. I also like marker lights on my firewarriors. With the marker light stratagem you can average 3 markerlights from a reliable 2+ fireblade or darkstrider. The firesight marksmen should be able to finish the other two marker lights. If you need that last marker hit having a few extra on firewarriors is nice.
I'm still on the fence regarding Pathfinders, though I think a large part of that is because I absolutely love those models.
When building lists, my practice so far has been to include enough marker-toting characters to reliably hit 5 times. After that, Pathfinders or whatever are just gravy.
Razerous wrote: I'm really liking 3 firebrands in a Sac're detachment (say the elite Vanguard) as a Markerlight / Commander platform / access to AoE markerlights.
75pts for 3 88% accuracy markerlights, each a character. Works for me!
Adding a Sacea detachment isn't very difficult either as ethereals are not Sept locked on their abilities.
Its barely a tax to throw in 3x5 fire warriors and an ethereal to make a battalion for 150 extra points. 9 more and you get 3 more rerolling markerlights.
Not counting commander, thats under 250 pts for 6 rerolling markerlights, a ld10 bubble+ethereal buffs, and 5 cp. I'll spend that every time. Tau blow through cp so fast, it's definitely worth it.
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
