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Spartan117xyz wrote:
Is chapter approved going to do anything for us? I only play grey knights and us falling behind this fast is making this grown man wanna cry.

I want them to do tons of little changes to make my knights fluffy and actually hold those own against other higher teir armies. But I won't be surprised at all if we get nothing more than a foot note in chapter approved for some rule we don't care about and that's it. We just get forgotten and pushed aside for the bigger more popular armies

Smite will be nerfed and GMDK will go up in points

Seriously though, who knows what will happen. I hoping for a few points drop/rule changes, but we may see little to no change at all judging how GK are often brushed under the rug.

Is there any way to make our voices be heard? It sounds so simple but I mean really. Why don't we on this thread all really discuss what we would really like to see change. All agree on something. And then email gw or some crap. Maybe we all sign it. We can complain and wish and hope our knights of Titan will be what we want but if they don't hear us asking for change they probably won't pay any mind to it.

Is that a doable thing? Do they have an email or some way to suggest what we would like to see?

Spartan117xyz wrote:
Is there any way to make our voices be heard? It sounds so simple but I mean really. Why don't we on this thread all really discuss what we would really like to see change. All agree on something. And then email gw or some crap. Maybe we all sign it. We can complain and wish and hope our knights of Titan will be what we want but if they don't hear us asking for change they probably won't pay any mind to it.

Is that a doable thing? Do they have an email or some way to suggest what we would like to see?

Since Chapter Approved will already be up for preorder next week there is nothing we can do to influence whatever changes they have made to GK. We can only hope that they have been paying attention to the competitive scene to notice that mono-GKs are a non-entity and that the only way they really see competitive play is allied with tons of guard. I kind of doubt there will be rules changes for codex factions so the best we might be able to hope for is points reductions across the board.

After having some more games done with my GK, I came to the conclusion that their problems are just too complicated to get resolved with a simple Chapter Approved.

I personally think that you can't play GK in friendly games as your main army, because they have just one strategy that works and its not a fun one to play against.

And at the same time they are not good enough to be competitive.

GK just need more options.
I personally love Interceptors.
But GK seem to be the most CP dependent army right now and at the same time they generate the lowest amount of CP (next to Custodes?).

When I build a list my thoughts are(2000p):
Ok, I want some interceptors.
My option is an Outrider Detachement, because I don't have the space to take (lets say) a battalion detachment and just add one squad of Interceptors.
Doing that would waste the space to squeeze out more CP.

But lets look at our huge selection of fast attack.
1.
Ok cool. I take Voldus and 3 minimum squads of interceptors then. Thats 565 points for 1 CP.
And it already feels super spammy to build a list like this.
(btw Voldus is a must in my meta, because we have a lot of Eldar here and their psychic phase gets out of hand so quick).

Next thought is: I have to have a battalion for the 3 CP.
So 1 GMNDK + 3 Strikes it is. 600 points for 3 CP.

Now more than half my points are gone for the obligatory battalion and another detachement that basically does the same, just a bit more flexible.
This leaves me with 835 points to play around, getting 2 more CP, another NMDK (feels like a must), the much needed anti tank and some transports for the poor squads starting on the table.

Which just ends in cutting the Outrider again, just because they are too same-ish to the Strike Squads.

All this brought me to the conclusion that the best way to play GK is to take an Inquisition Vanguard detachement.
79 Points for an Inquisitor and 3 acolytes(you can add more acolytes if you want more stuff in reserve).
This gives me 1 CP AND 4 drops on the table.

Additionally I use an Astra Militarum Battalion to fill that much needed slot.

And suddenly I'm just playing Imperium Soup. (in a worse set up than everyone else).
But I feel like I have to rely on those super cheap CP generators to actually be able to take the cool toys of the GK and use the Stratagems that makes them strong.

Honestly with the upcoming Land Raider All you can eat system I would love to field Land Raider again, but one Land Raider means -3 smites and -1 CP most of the time, and Gk can't afford this.

Man, this went tl;dr pretty quick, sorry for that.

In short: I love a lot of GK stuff, but I always feel inefficient when I try to use it.
In my opinion GK need a CP generator/recycle system. Every other army has that.

And a few more options so you can fill out detachements without being that guy who just spams the same unit.

This way GK would still have the worst codex so far, but at least it would make list building and playing them more enjoyable.
It still feels like forcing out the GK codex so early and barely changing anything from the index was totally pointless.

I'd like GK to get some rule that let's you add one die to deny rolls for each unit within 6" of the original denier. That would give us a really good psychic defense and unique rule that works against all psykers, not just demons. In fact, I'd ditch the anti-demon rules completely in matched play. Leave the fluff to books and narrative play. Then it would be easier to balance and GK wouldn't have to pay for super situational rules.

The whole CP system itself is flawed. It needs to be army dependent, not just "how many FoCs can you fit into your list".

Each faction should generate it's own unique amount of CPs, with some units giving/using up CPs. Then FoCs can add CPs.

So IG for example should only get 2 CPs to start with. While an army like Grey Knights or Space Marines should get 5-6. Since IG can easily fill FoCs to generate new CPs, they start with the fewest.

Space Marine factions wouldn't be able to generate many CPs from FoCs, but their HQs or other specialized units would add CPs. Like say a Chapter Master/Grand Master would give you 2 CPs.

I would also add a rule that says that if you have allied detachments, each additional faction of allies that you bring costs 2CPs.

So GW Community put up some info on Chapter Approved and it looks like Faeit's leaks on the book are accurate so far. Faeit doesn't have anything on Grey Knights though. Literally not mentioned in the point changes or new rules at all.

It could just be the leaker didn't look us up or remember, but it could also be that Chapter Approved simply ignores us.

Wanna take any bets? Stake out any reactions if we're ignored in advance?

Audustum wrote:
Wanna take any bets? Stake out any reactions if we're ignored in advance?

Depends, what's the odds given on a point increase?

Hey we were right! The True Grit rule is back as a stratagem!

 daedalus wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Wanna take any bets? Stake out any reactions if we're ignored in advance?

Depends, what's the odds given on a point increase?

Paladins now +10 PPM, to make them more fair with Terminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:
Hey we were right! The True Grit rule is back as a stratagem!

Spoiler:

...for Space Wolves

Hey, least we know it was a good idea!

All the wish list stuff is great, but there's one thing Grey Knights most desperately need and it's something that Chapter Approved explicitly says it is meant to address.

Lower point costs.

It'd be nice to have better units, but I'll settle for being able to compete by fielding more units.

Lanlaorn wrote:
All the wish list stuff is great, but there's one thing Grey Knights most desperately need and it's something that Chapter Approved explicitly says it is meant to address.

Lower point costs.

It'd be nice to have better units, but I'll settle for being able to compete by fielding more units.

Honestly, you're right and points are the big sticker. We could use a bit of a Smite revamp (at least let HQ's cast full), but points are our main problem. Terminators would actually be solid if they were a bit cheaper. Paladins are borderline but could probably use a haircut (5 Paladins without special guns costing more than 5 Custodes all with Stormshields, really?). More units means more detachments and CP which helps the non-Grandmaster Dreadknights out (we can actually afford that stratagem to buff their invulnerable). Lowering the cost on Incinerators is needed too since they're basically inferior to psycannons with re-roll auras.

I think a lot of the issues point cost wise stems from GW's designers overvaluing force weapons and psychic powers.

That's the only explanation I can think of for why a basic Strike Squad member is 6 more points than a Tactical Marine (not even including the storm bolter).

Indeed. We are costed as if we can cast all our psychic powers all the time, yet most of the time we won't even be touching psychic powers with most units.

Its like they either forgot Psychic Focus exists OR we were written up before that was a rule.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. We are costed as if we can cast all our psychic powers all the time, yet most of the time we won't even be touching psychic powers with most units.

Its like they either forgot Psychic Focus exists OR we were written up before that was a rule.

Overpricing psykers isn't unique to just us, unfortunately. Thousand Sons gets that treatment too (but not original Horrors, no sir).

Spartacus wrote:
Hey we were right! The True Grit rule is back as a stratagem!

Spoiler:

...for Space Wolves

That infuriated me so much. I feel like GW needs a staffer/consultant for each army; a veteran with the game’s best interest in mind who will take the time to help flesh out their codex. I’m not jealous of power level as much as flavor when I compare my codex to others.

On the tactics side, something I’ve toyed around with is the idea of allying in a patrol detachment of AM, then spending an AM CP to give the AM HQ a relic: specifically Kurav’s Aquilla. Then I have a chance to get CPs whenever my opponent spends one, which is far more often than my GK do.

 greyknight12 wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Hey we were right! The True Grit rule is back as a stratagem!

Spoiler:

...for Space Wolves

That infuriated me so much. I feel like GW needs a staffer/consultant for each army; a veteran with the game’s best interest in mind who will take the time to help flesh out their codex. I’m not jealous of power level as much as flavor when I compare my codex to others.

On the tactics side, something I’ve toyed around with is the idea of allying in a patrol detachment of AM, then spending an AM CP to give the AM HQ a relic: specifically Kurav’s Aquilla. Then I have a chance to get CPs whenever my opponent spends one, which is far more often than my GK do.

If you just want CP's and you don't mind losing "First to the Fray", just take Guilliman in a Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment and make him your warlord. +3 CP's and you get to roll every time you spend one to get it back. Plus he's a solid melee beater and lets you charge and advance a smidgen farther.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pics posted in News forum. Only unique change to us was Terminators down to 41PPM.

So it looks like CA will bring GKs a whole lot of nothing. It's as if the faction doesn't even deserve another look. Incredibly disappointing.

Units

Razorbacks 70

Storm Raven 192

Terminators 41

Wargear

Assault Cannon 22

Hurricane Bolters 16

Twin Assault Cannon 44

I am really close to boycotting GW for that neglect and GK are only 1 of my 3 armies.

Man. I don't think I've ever waited so long for so little.

GK changes were worthless.

IG changes are nonsensical. I know there's a lot of spite going on, and I know I'm a bit of a IG cheerleader in those threads, but I really can't even reconcile those changes. The stuff I would admit to being too good didn't get touched and the stuff I haven't used got hammered.

I didn't even see Tau in there. Or inquisition. Guess those 8 points per acolyte was actually intentional.

I don't even.

 daedalus wrote:
Man. I don't think I've ever waited so long for so little.

GK changes were worthless.

IG changes are nonsensical. I know there's a lot of spite going on, and I know I'm a bit of a IG cheerleader in those threads, but I really can't even reconcile those changes. The stuff I would admit to being too good didn't get touched and the stuff I haven't used got hammered.

I didn't even see Tau in there. Or inquisition. Guess those 8 points per acolyte was actually intentional.

I don't even.

Honestly, I don't play Guard, but I thought they needed to wait longer to let the meta develop.

I can't wait to see what Quickjager thinks of Chapter Approved though...

This is our codex now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An absolute nightmare of balancing with no clear vision of what the army is supposed to be.

But hey, we aren't fething Rubric Marines and their Exalted Sorcerers

Its kinda ironic that the only model i usually bothered bringing that didnt just carry another stormbolter just went up by 41 points (+20 raven +12 hurricane +9 twin ass cannon)

I can't rly cant believe that they didnt bother changing the cost of our special weapons (especially on servos...)

Emulgator wrote:
Its kinda ironic that the only model i usually bothered bringing that didnt just carry another stormbolter just went up by 41 points (+20 raven +12 hurricane +9 twin ass cannon)

I can't rly cant believe that they didnt bother changing the cost of our special weapons (especially on servos...)

Working as intended, obviously.

Also, great picture Quickjager!

I mean, I like that Terminators went down 5 points. Not that I would ever use them over Paladins but still.

No fixes to Purfiers either, which is sad.

another think i realized "just now" (since i nevere even bothered to look at the terminator page in my codex before)
why THE feth are our terminators only morale 7/8 when normal SM terminators are 8/9 ???

Emulgator wrote:
another think i realized "just now" (since i nevere even bothered to look at the terminator page in my codex before)
why THE feth are our terminators only morale 7/8 when normal SM terminators are 8/9 ???

GW actually said it was because our Terminators aren't as seasoned veterans as normal Terminators. This was a community Facebook reply though.

so our terminators are rookies and our psykers dont know how to properly smite

why exactly do they send us to fight creatures from the warp created by actual chaos gods again.... ?

So, looking at the points leaks (at least across the imperium) the Grey knights were relatively untouched in most areas.

Terminators went down in price a little bit. Not a lot but just a little.

Our Assault razorbacks are a little bit nerfed now (which is in line with the space marine dex, which hurts the Robby G lists). Also, our twin psycannon was nerfed, but I don't see many of those around.

However, I would say that with point increases on a lot of the competitive units in the imperium (I haven't looked at xenos yet) I think this is, overall, a step in the right direction with the Grey Knights. Are we going to rise to the top of the food chain off of these changes? likely no. but it helps us out.

I'm pretty happy that Terminators got a points decrease, but overall I feel like they needed to drop at least another 5 points to actually become worth taking. What do you all think? What do you think would be the appropriate cost for a GK terminator?