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2017/06/05 01:52:16
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
The swarmy tactic works well for a guaranteed turn 1 charge but I like just bringing a second Trygon with another bunch of 20 stealers. Remember also that the trygon is able to make an 8" charge attempt if you give it adrenal glands (and why would you not). That's 2 8" turn 1 charges and 2 9" turn 1 charges. Plus you have a command re-roll, granting them pseudo fleet, and because you usually have multiple failed charge options, you can pick the one where you have a good chance of making it with the use of the re-roll. (66% - 86% I've seen much of the time).
The reason why I tend not to use the Swarmlord ability on the stealers is because if I use it on a flyrant, that's a 32" turn 1 move, giving me a pretty good chance at 3 turn 1 charges. The average mathematically is between 2 and 3, but it tops out higher because 5 charges could succeed turn 1. I even once had a flyrant make a charge turn 1 without Swarmy's ability (onslaught and 16" base move is really nice )
And this is all without a Hive Crone or a Harpy, which I've really been meaning to try out....but I would have to drop the Exocrine, and he has been an absolute monster. Loving all of the options we have, and none of them are awful
2017/06/05 02:05:49
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.
Just short of 500 points don't you mean? You have to pay for both of the venom cannons. They're still really good though.
Yes, my bad. Knew I had to pay for both venom cannons, didn't actually add the second one in. 149 per Harpy, 447 for 3, assuming "can also shoot stinger salvos " means they have to pay for stinger salvos as a mandatory upgrade. If that phrasing means they get to shoot stinger salvos but don't have to pay for the gun then it is 11 points less per model, so 416 for three of them.
Hmm? Still doesn't quite seem to add up to my number. Harpy 2x Heavy Venom Cannon Scything Wings Stinger Salvoes
That adds up to 162 points each. Or 486 for three of them. I'm assuming the stinger salvoes are mandatory, as they're not mentioned in the Wargear Options section.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 02:06:59
2017/06/05 02:15:37
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
I'm really liking the new Harpies. 12W at T6 is a lot to chew through, even with the new wounding chart. Heavy Venom Cannons are solid now, and Spore Mines hand out mortal wounds. Three HVC Harpies is just short of 400 points, has 6d3 S9 AP-1 D3 damage shots, and gets an extra command point from the Flyer Wing.
Just short of 500 points don't you mean? You have to pay for both of the venom cannons.
They're still really good though.
Yes, my bad. Knew I had to pay for both venom cannons, didn't actually add the second one in. 149 per Harpy, 447 for 3, assuming "can also shoot stinger salvos " means they have to pay for stinger salvos as a mandatory upgrade. If that phrasing means they get to shoot stinger salvos but don't have to pay for the gun then it is 11 points less per model, so 416 for three of them.
Hmm? Still doesn't quite seem to add up to my number.
Harpy
2x Heavy Venom Cannon
Scything Wings
Stinger Salvoes
That adds up to 162 points each. Or 486 for three of them.
I'm assuming the stinger salvoes are mandatory, as they're not mentioned in the Wargear Options section.
I managed to leave out the wings this time around. I can't math today.
2017/06/05 02:41:05
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Zimko wrote: How about this for a tactic? Edit:(I see someone else thought of this, oh well)
Trygon delivers 20 Genestealers. Swarmlord uses his Hive Commander ability to allow the Genestealers to Move AND Advance in the shooting phase and then charge on turn 1.
Seems like a waste of the Trygon, in Turn 1. You would need to come out 9" from the enemy, all models have to be within 3" of the Trygon AND 9" from the enemy, 9"+6"+1d6" gives the Swarmlord 18" forward "aura range" on average. Given Standard deployment range of 24" between the front lines, means the Genestealers need to come out within 6" of the near side of the frontline and still be 9" away from enemy units.
For Turn 1, wouldn't it be easier to have 20 Genestealers move 8"+1d6+1" advance, Swarmlord Hive Commands, same unit now moves another 8"+1d6", and then gets a 2d6" charge. 11.5"+11.5"+7" leaves you 6" short of what your maximum would be while leaving the Swarmlord not right out in front. Trygon would be better used coming in at the back of their formation and having the Genestealers risk the 2d6" charge to get to an unit 9" away, with a reroll if needed on Turn 1. Course, using the Trygon/Hive Command combo on Turn 2 becomes very nasty, and your Swarmlord is 5-9" closer, does require another unit of Genestealers though...
Just my opinion/food for thought...
si vis pacem, para bellum
2017/06/05 03:06:03
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Deploying Genestealers (or whatever unit floats your boat like Hormagants) inside a Trygon tunnel does 5 important things:
1) It allows you to "deploy" that unit first, and then see what your opponent does with one of their units before you put your guys down, giving you an informational edge
2) It increases your average point value for a deployed unit (420 is like almost Imperial Knight neighborhood), meaning that you are more likely to go first, barring a seize
3) Since you deploy at the end of any of your first movement phases, it gives you a TON of tactical flexibility. I see most people coming in turn 1 because why not, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 if it helps you win the mission. Especially if it's eternal war, you have the perfect amount of immunity to being tabled if you go second.
4) Since you deploy during your turn, even if your opponent went first, you have zero alpha strike liability for these units. They go before your opponent shoots at them, period
5) Since you deploy during your turn with no scatter, all of your opponent's models will stay stationary from the time your guys hit the table until they make their charge rolls, and you have a perfect degree of control over their battlefield positioning. This alone can win games
In case all of that isn't enough, the Trygon is no slouch himself. I have no problem paying 180 points just for a guy who can pop up turn 1 and have an 8" assault. Every. Single. Time. Mine rolled extremely poorly and still almost sliced the Yncarne in half in one round of combat (it survived with 1 wound). Not the greatest vs tanks, but it can still get things done.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pinecone77 wrote: OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...
Spoiler:
First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...
Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above
Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...
I like it. You're probably not going first lmao but there's always the seize roll. I'm trying to figure out if always going second (and always giving up first blood) is worth the abundance of command points you're getting. My lists are more like 7 or 8 command points, whereas you can easily have 12-14. So 6-8 more re-rolls or 3-4 more "charge interruptions" is a pretty big deal, not gonna lie. You're always going to have units all over the objectives, and the MSU is going to really mess up a lot of armies because they won't kill you efficiently, but kill point missions are going to be torture for you.
If I was going to try and tweak this list, I might:
Try to make your stealer broods bigger. 15 would be great. 20 would be better. I know it's a ton of points but remember you get extra attacks when they're large units, and overwatch will likely claim a few. And with a broodlord in tow, they are going to literally butcher everything.
Swap a broodlord for Old One Eye. On his own, he's a monster, cheaper than a broodlord, and much better than he used to be. With his 3 closest friends....oh man. Look out. Only thing I wonder about with the fexes is if they should have bio plasma. Those talons mean they want to get to combat, so I would sooner just say save some points, forget the guns and give them adrenal glands for better running and charging. Remember also that onslaught is only going to be good for a single fex, not all 3 because they operate separately after deployment.
I am pretty high on at least some Tyrant Guard right now. Your tyrant is such an easy choice to try and focus down. Psyker, synapse, murder machine, great target for big guns. Don't let the guns win! I'm also pretty high on saving a few points and giving him monstrous rending claws for 1 of his cc options to try and save some points and to help with t7 and t8.
I might try and save some points by doing some cheaper fast attack options like mucolid spores (20 pts) or spore mines (30 pts). Not so much because I like the models, although making your opponent waste 1 or sometimes 2 units to make them deal with them can be nice. Mostly to try and trim your amount of kill points while still fulfilling the brigade detachment. But having 30 scoring bodies really is nice too. That's going to win you some games for sure.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 03:24:37
2017/06/05 06:19:52
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
luke1705 wrote: Deploying Genestealers (or whatever unit floats your boat like Hormagants) inside a Trygon tunnel does 5 important things:
1) It allows you to "deploy" that unit first, and then see what your opponent does with one of their units before you put your guys down, giving you an informational edge
2) It increases your average point value for a deployed unit (420 is like almost Imperial Knight neighborhood), meaning that you are more likely to go first, barring a seize
3) Since you deploy at the end of any of your first movement phases, it gives you a TON of tactical flexibility. I see most people coming in turn 1 because why not, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 if it helps you win the mission. Especially if it's eternal war, you have the perfect amount of immunity to being tabled if you go second.
4) Since you deploy during your turn, even if your opponent went first, you have zero alpha strike liability for these units. They go before your opponent shoots at them, period
5) Since you deploy during your turn with no scatter, all of your opponent's models will stay stationary from the time your guys hit the table until they make their charge rolls, and you have a perfect degree of control over their battlefield positioning. This alone can win games
In case all of that isn't enough, the Trygon is no slouch himself. I have no problem paying 180 points just for a guy who can pop up turn 1 and have an 8" assault. Every. Single. Time. Mine rolled extremely poorly and still almost sliced the Yncarne in half in one round of combat (it survived with 1 wound). Not the greatest vs tanks, but it can still get things done.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pinecone77 wrote: OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...
Spoiler:
First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...
Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above
Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...
I like it. You're probably not going first lmao but there's always the seize roll. I'm trying to figure out if always going second (and always giving up first blood) is worth the abundance of command points you're getting. My lists are more like 7 or 8 command points, whereas you can easily have 12-14. So 6-8 more re-rolls or 3-4 more "charge interruptions" is a pretty big deal, not gonna lie. You're always going to have units all over the objectives, and the MSU is going to really mess up a lot of armies because they won't kill you efficiently, but kill point missions are going to be torture for you.
If I was going to try and tweak this list, I might:
Try to make your stealer broods bigger. 15 would be great. 20 would be better. I know it's a ton of points but remember you get extra attacks when they're large units, and overwatch will likely claim a few. And with a broodlord in tow, they are going to literally butcher everything.
Swap a broodlord for Old One Eye. On his own, he's a monster, cheaper than a broodlord, and much better than he used to be. With his 3 closest friends....oh man. Look out. Only thing I wonder about with the fexes is if they should have bio plasma. Those talons mean they want to get to combat, so I would sooner just say save some points, forget the guns and give them adrenal glands for better running and charging. Remember also that onslaught is only going to be good for a single fex, not all 3 because they operate separately after deployment.
I am pretty high on at least some Tyrant Guard right now. Your tyrant is such an easy choice to try and focus down. Psyker, synapse, murder machine, great target for big guns. Don't let the guns win! I'm also pretty high on saving a few points and giving him monstrous rending claws for 1 of his cc options to try and save some points and to help with t7 and t8.
I might try and save some points by doing some cheaper fast attack options like mucolid spores (20 pts) or spore mines (30 pts). Not so much because I like the models, although making your opponent waste 1 or sometimes 2 units to make them deal with them can be nice. Mostly to try and trim your amount of kill points while still fulfilling the brigade detachment. But having 30 scoring bodies really is nice too. That's going to win you some games for sure.
Good points all around. At this juncture I feel like Trygons are basically auto includes. If I had more than one of certainly be taking two! I'm super stoked to start running nids again.
What do y'all think of this 2k list? Probably split between a brigade detachment and a spearhead for 7 CPs total.
So with 3 Tyrants and the Trygon that's 4 Big Bugs and 20 'Stealers in the opponents deployment zone on Turn 1. Closely followed by another 76 gribblies and 4 additional CC beatsticks. Is it nuanced? Not really. Will the great devourer feast again? I certainly hope so.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2017/06/05 07:12:52
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
So with 3 Tyrants and the Trygon that's 4 Big Bugs and 20 'Stealers in the opponents deployment zone on Turn 1. Closely followed by another 76 gribblies and 4 additional CC beatsticks. Is it nuanced? Not really. Will the great devourer feast again? I certainly hope so.
Lose the broodlord/hive tyrant and 1 carnifex and get the Swarmlord. This free movement bonus it gives is just to good no to have and could slingshot units hormagaunts or genestealers another 8inch + d6 forward. In combination with catalyst (and onslaught) psychic power it is better to field bigger units so I would combine the small squads together. Its also nice to field single biovores because they're so cheap and can still shoot while moving and are easy to hide. Even two of these are a nice addition to claim backfield objectives.
2017/06/05 08:28:16
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Don't have any biovores so I'll leave em at home for now but yeah dropping 1 Tyrant, 1 Fex, and a few gaunts for the swarmlord seems like a good idea. Keeps in line with idea of a threat overload list.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2017/06/05 13:06:45
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
I think once the FW rules come out, swapping that Exocrine and some TG for a Dima (or indeed a Haruspex) might be a very solid option for a melee focused build. Alternatively: 3 Flyrants (that build), 3 Trygons, 3x20 Genes, 3 TG and 2 Mucolids just fits in 2k as well. One more drop so a tad less likely to get first turn, but also no rippers for that very easy first blood.
Arkengate wrote:Predictions on which FW models will be good? Just curious!
If malanthropes are a similar/cheaper points cost than Venoms, then they will be excellent imo. Venoms for -1 to hit are looking great for infantry lists, but if you can get that same rule with built in synapse? Winner. I am intruiged to see the Stonecrusher Fex stats, as normal fexes are fantastic so they could well follow suit. Dimachaerons I expect to be decent if they are 300 points or less with decent speed - the fast melee walking melee monster the codex lacks. Meiotics might be a nice substitute for Mucolids depending on points. Am also hyped for the Hierodule rules - fully expect them to be beasts if Knights are anything to go by. A good target for Swarmy's double walk I suspect...
Arkengate wrote:How do yall feel about the following units? Havent seen many reviews for em
Raveners
HiveCrone/Harpy
Hive guard (both forms)
Part of the issue with Raveners (and indeed melee Warriors and Shrikes) is that they have far far fewer rending attacks than Genes for the same points. That said, they do have some nice benefits - they have their own inbuilt deep strike, so you can get them up close without having to spend 150-180pts on a Pod/Trygon, so good to fill out points. If you add the Red Terror they get substantially better en masse. And of course they do have that 12" base move so they are one of the fastest things in the dex. In general though I think I would live by the principle of more genes... Warriors/Shrikes at least give synapse.
Harpies I think are solid as our cheapest Str9 platform, with tons of utility and mobility to boot. Crones I'm a little less sure of.
Hive Guard someone noted were the most points efficient armour killer in the codex, and some quick maths proves them right! I think they are a steal for the points with Impalers - ShockCannons I'm less enthused by.
2017/06/05 17:44:14
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Literally cannot wait for the Dimachaeron to come out. Definitely a prime target for swarmy's double move. Cast onslaught on that bad boy and he is very likely to make combat turn 1 if you don't mind using a re-roll for his charge distance. If he can "leap" 10-12 inches, that's 38-44" turn 1 on average, including charge roll, and 24-28' minimum move (assuming you roll a 1 on both of your advance rolls, snake eyes on your charge and your CP re-roll). Not too shabby
2017/06/05 18:47:09
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Arkengate wrote:How do yall feel about the following units? Havent seen many reviews for em
Raveners
HiveCrone/Harpy
Hive guard (both forms)
Part of the issue with Raveners (and indeed melee Warriors and Shrikes) is that they have far far fewer rending attacks than Genes for the same points. That said, they do have some nice benefits - they have their own inbuilt deep strike, so you can get them up close without having to spend 150-180pts on a Pod/Trygon, so good to fill out points. If you add the Red Terror they get substantially better en masse. And of course they do have that 12" base move so they are one of the fastest things in the dex. In general though I think I would live by the principle of more genes... Warriors/Shrikes at least give synapse.
Harpies I think are solid as our cheapest Str9 platform, with tons of utility and mobility to boot. Crones I'm a little less sure of.
Hive Guard someone noted were the most points efficient armour killer in the codex, and some quick maths proves them right! I think they are a steal for the points with Impalers - ShockCannons I'm less enthused by.
Raveners. I don't think they hit hard enough, compared to the same cost of Genestealers, and they don't bring anything else to the table. As much as I like the model, I think you want to take 'stealers for the fast assaulty role (how many editions has it been since someone said that?!)
Hive Guard. The problem with Hive Guard was weak BS, too short ranged, and not being a dakka Flyrant. BS improved, range improved, and dakka Flyrants are no longer a thing. They bring large volumes of high strength fire at reasonable cost.
I like Warriors. I think multiple squads of cheap warriors with venom cannons will work well as an anchor for the backfield. They are not punchy enough to be up front killing everything that moves, but nids have other tools for that. If you are going to run a meaningful backfield (Biovores, Exocrines), Warriors are a solid choice. If your running a fast, assulty build, less so.
Strikes provide fast mobile synapse, but not all that much else. Gargoyles, Hormagaunts, and Genstealers are all really quick: Shrikes role is to keep them in synapse. Thing is, Tyrants with wings are fast as well, Tyrgon Primes can deep strike, Tervigons can take a pod, and trailing models back to
Swarmy (who isn't slow) is simple enough. I think Shrikes, like Raveners, are outclassed in their preferred role by other options.
Harpies. Harpies bring lots of S9 shooting, (the venom cannon is an auto upgrade) which nids lack, on a platform with plenty of wounds, and get to hand out mortal wounds when they fly over things. This could easily be used as a character sniper tool-roll that six for multiple mortal wounds and watch people cry like you brought a D weapon. Three of them net you an extra command point from the Air Wing and fill in most of your anti tank.
2017/06/05 19:19:03
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
rollawaythestone wrote: The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).
Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p
No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.
Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.
That's how it reads ("units"). And that would also match how it works in AoS.
You can replace models that have been slain in a unit that exists. A total new unit = reinforcement points.
I'm going to have to agree with Shane here. Otherwise apothecary type units would need to set aside points in matched play to bring back fallen dudes, and necrons points to use reanimation. And yes, the two rules have the same function returning lost points to play.
Clearly states add or replace. Pg. 214 main rulebook. In matched play, nothing is free.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 19:24:20
I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains
2017/06/05 19:29:49
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Incidentally, to those going hard on Trygons in lists. Do remember that you really need one less than you suspect.
I've been starting one unit of 20 Stealers on the board. In most deployments that means an 8" move + d6 advance, + Swarmlord doing it for them again. On average dice for the advances you need a 3" charge to reach anything deployed right on the line.
I then have a 2nd unit of Stealers with a Trygon or T-cyte who can, if the first unit multi-charged, try for the long-bomb charge safely enough.
Oh also, the Toxin Sac tech is real, and will be competitive. Genestealer volume of dice is soooo high that fishing for sixes against even the hardest targets, yields a LOT of them with massive -4 rend, and now 2 damage thanks to the Sacs. In one of my games a unit of 20 Stealers (17 actually due to overwatch losses), one-shotted an Imperial Knight on fairly average dice.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2017/06/05 20:02:06
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
rollawaythestone wrote: The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).
Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p
No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.
Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.
That's how it reads ("units"). And that would also match how it works in AoS.
You can replace models that have been slain in a unit that exists. A total new unit = reinforcement points.
I'm going to have to agree with Shane here. Otherwise apothecary type units would need to set aside points in matched play to bring back fallen dudes, and necrons points to use reanimation. And yes, the two rules have the same function returning lost points to play.
Clearly states add or replace. Pg. 214 main rulebook. In matched play, nothing is free.
I agree with Shane and Tyran. Units are not equal to models. If you want to summon gaunts, you have to set aside points for them. If you want to add models to a gaunt unit that has taken casualties, you do not have to set aside points.
Summoning 10 gaunts doesn't feel worth 40 points, but having 10 gaunts pop out on an objective turn 5, in a system where claiming objectives is based on model count, does.
Lets say you run 3 Tervigons supporting 3 big squads of Termigants. 120 points of summoning reserves gives you 3 10 man units that can pop out to screen/last turn claim objectives, and you can spend the entire game healing the big squads.
2017/06/05 20:18:39
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
AoS went out of its way to clarify this point in FAQs post General's Handbook, and the Tervigon entry even calls attention to the point.
I can't believe we're still having this discussion when it really is abundantly clear that reserving points is exclusively for the purpose of summoning new entire units.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2017/06/05 20:36:15
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
luke1705 wrote: Deploying Genestealers (or whatever unit floats your boat like Hormagants) inside a Trygon tunnel does 5 important things:
1) It allows you to "deploy" that unit first, and then see what your opponent does with one of their units before you put your guys down, giving you an informational edge
2) It increases your average point value for a deployed unit (420 is like almost Imperial Knight neighborhood), meaning that you are more likely to go first, barring a seize
3) Since you deploy at the end of any of your first movement phases, it gives you a TON of tactical flexibility. I see most people coming in turn 1 because why not, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 if it helps you win the mission. Especially if it's eternal war, you have the perfect amount of immunity to being tabled if you go second.
4) Since you deploy during your turn, even if your opponent went first, you have zero alpha strike liability for these units. They go before your opponent shoots at them, period
5) Since you deploy during your turn with no scatter, all of your opponent's models will stay stationary from the time your guys hit the table until they make their charge rolls, and you have a perfect degree of control over their battlefield positioning. This alone can win games
In case all of that isn't enough, the Trygon is no slouch himself. I have no problem paying 180 points just for a guy who can pop up turn 1 and have an 8" assault. Every. Single. Time. Mine rolled extremely poorly and still almost sliced the Yncarne in half in one round of combat (it survived with 1 wound). Not the greatest vs tanks, but it can still get things done.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pinecone77 wrote: OK, still trying to "grok" this new way of doing things...
Spoiler:
First Wave: 1902 points, I left some spare in case I messed up costs someplace...
Trygon (Bio electrics)
Trygon
Carnifex, Bio plasma, Two sets of Monster Scythes
Carnifex, as above
Carnifex, as above
Does this look "correct"? It looks like it could really mess up a lot of foes...
I like it. You're probably not going first lmao but there's always the seize roll. I'm trying to figure out if always going second (and always giving up first blood) is worth the abundance of command points you're getting. My lists are more like 7 or 8 command points, whereas you can easily have 12-14. So 6-8 more re-rolls or 3-4 more "charge interruptions" is a pretty big deal, not gonna lie. You're always going to have units all over the objectives, and the MSU is going to really mess up a lot of armies because they won't kill you efficiently, but kill point missions are going to be torture for you.
If I was going to try and tweak this list, I might:
Try to make your stealer broods bigger. 15 would be great. 20 would be better. I know it's a ton of points but remember you get extra attacks when they're large units, and overwatch will likely claim a few. And with a broodlord in tow, they are going to literally butcher everything.
Swap a broodlord for Old One Eye. On his own, he's a monster, cheaper than a broodlord, and much better than he used to be. With his 3 closest friends....oh man. Look out. Only thing I wonder about with the fexes is if they should have bio plasma. Those talons mean they want to get to combat, so I would sooner just say save some points, forget the guns and give them adrenal glands for better running and charging. Remember also that onslaught is only going to be good for a single fex, not all 3 because they operate separately after deployment.
I am pretty high on at least some Tyrant Guard right now. Your tyrant is such an easy choice to try and focus down. Psyker, synapse, murder machine, great target for big guns. Don't let the guns win! I'm also pretty high on saving a few points and giving him monstrous rending claws for 1 of his cc options to try and save some points and to help with t7 and t8.
I might try and save some points by doing some cheaper fast attack options like mucolid spores (20 pts) or spore mines (30 pts). Not so much because I like the models, although making your opponent waste 1 or sometimes 2 units to make them deal with them can be nice. Mostly to try and trim your amount of kill points while still fulfilling the brigade detachment. But having 30 scoring bodies really is nice too. That's going to win you some games for sure.
Thanks! I was thinking I'd want to set up with the Tyrant behind a LOS Blocker every chance I got. I basicly wanted a Lot of threat overload, the twin Lictors can add in, or try for lone characters. I Think that if my Tyrant dies Every game as first blood, that might mean I have a dang good chance of winning, because everything else got ignored. ("Distraction Tyrant"? ) Command points by the bucket, and the far less horrible IB might be a winning tool. (I think using points to Auto pass Morale is a hidden gem)Time will tell how this new "Meta" shakes out.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2017/06/05 21:02:01
Subject: Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Actually, i'd say only go with 15 Toxin Sacs per. I've gotten quite a few games so far, and against most things Genestealers will want to multi-assault... they're too much over-kill otherwise.
As a result super-overwatch from 8th Ed means I was tending to lose 3-4 Stealers per Turn 1 Assault. Might as well make those ablative wounds be a little bit cheaper. ;-)
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)
2017/06/05 21:30:04
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
I worked something out I am hoping to test on a friend soon. Sticking with PPs until I get the feel of certain things, but overall it seems promising.
Broodlord
2x 20 Hormagaunts
Red Terror
6x Raveners
Trygon Prime
9x Rippers
Plan is for Brood to start on the field with the Hormagaunts, while Trygon Prime brings in Rippers on the turn. Red Terror and Raveners go for juicy targets from the side.
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2017/06/05 21:37:49
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
I'm on the fence on how to equip Tyrants right now.
Scything Talons look like the best melee weapon: hitting on 2+ rerolling 1's is no joke. I don't like the Lash Whip/Bone Sword because the number of situations where a Tyrant gets killed before swinging is pretty limited. Rending Claws are ok but Tyrants lack the volume of attacks that it takes to get value from rending.
My questions are: wings or no wings, gun or 2nd scything talons. My thoughts:
Tyrants have a reasonable movement. In a build focused around walking monsters such as Carnifexes, a walking Tyrant makes sense. Put a bunch of monsters on the table, screen with 'stealers, gargoyles or 'gaunts to taste, and look for T2 and T3 charges. A heavy venom cannon makes sense on this guy. He has the time to use it.
A Tyrant with wings is going to be getting T1 and T2 charges, so he needs to be in a faster list. The extra attack from the second scything talon jumps out to me more on the winged Tyrant. A gun gives him utility, but I don't think he ever gets the chance to use it.
Of the actual gun options, the heavy venom cannon or a pair of deathspitters look best. Deathspitters are flat better than devourers. The stranglethorn canon is meh. I think 'nids will be killing massed infantry by slamming massed infantry or monsters into them, not by plinking with guns.
2017/06/05 22:02:26
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
babelfish wrote:I'm on the fence on how to equip Tyrants right now.
Imo 2 builds - 2x Scytal for volume of attacks, or RC+2x DS for value. Value would be 2x RCs but for 20pts 6 str7 ap-1 shots is too good to pass up (and is still cheaper than any other build). LWBS and 2xBS don't seem worth it, similarly the HVC and STC are too pricey for what you get when you can get a Harpy with 2 for cheaper than a tyrant with one.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Actually, i'd say only go with 15 Toxin Sacs per.
You have to take them for the whole unit or none at all. And whilst they do sound good, 4pts per model is 80 for the unit - 3 units of that and you coulda got another 20 genes.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Incidentally, to those going hard on Trygons in lists. Do remember that you really need one less than you suspect.
I've been starting one unit of 20 Stealers on the board. In most deployments that means an 8" move + d6 advance, + Swarmlord doing it for them again. On average dice for the advances you need a 3" charge to reach anything deployed right on the line.
I then have a 2nd unit of Stealers with a Trygon or T-cyte who can, if the first unit multi-charged, try for the long-bomb charge safely enough.
Personally I'd rather save Swarmy for something big and scary that usually wouldn't be able to make a charge (ie. by popping out of a hole or pod) - like himself or a Hive Tyrant, in absence of anything else!
I also think that overall, the pod is quite lacklustre when a trygon is only 32pts more, is a massive melee threat itself and occupies a HS slot to get yourself more CPs. Sure, 5 VCs is neat, but I'd rather push another melee threat down the enemy's throat. Main reason to use it is for the MC holding ability really.
babelfish wrote:Three of them net you an extra command point from the Air Wing and fill in most of your anti tank.
It would, but both Crones and Harpies are FA, alas
2017/06/05 22:17:31
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Razerous wrote: Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?
Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.
Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!
Yup - you replace a Pair of Scytals with 2x Brainleech Devourers (but do Slimer Deathspitters instead, for slightly more they're worth it!). You can do so twice for 4 total Devs/DSes if you choose.
2017/06/05 22:32:26
Subject: Re:Tyranids 8th ed Tactica - All Dataslates/Wargear - The Great Devourer is Nigh
Razerous wrote: Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?
Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.
Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!
Yup - you replace a Pair of Scytals with 2x Brainleech Devourers (but do Slimer Deathspitters instead, for slightly more they're worth it!). You can do so twice for 4 total Devs/DSes if you choose.
Fair doos! I guess the issue is you loose out on any melee biomorphs (besides the 1A tail) and a hive tyrant is a beatstick in melee.. but will just be AP0 Str user?
)
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11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
I was thinking I'd want to set up with the Tyrant behind a 
I Think that if my Tyrant dies Every game as first blood, that might mean I have a dang good chance of winning, because everything else got ignored. ("Distraction Tyrant"? 
) Command points by the bucket, and the far less horrible 
Hive Fleet Grootslang 
