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skycapt44 wrote:
Thanks luke for the confirmation. Can swarmlord use his hive commander on himself to double move? In other words, can you pod swarmy down in a Tcyte stay just over 9". Then in shoot phase cast hive commander on swarmy to move within an inch of your enemy to charge it the same turn? Or must it be used on a different unit...Obviously the swarmlord is within 6" of itself and it is a unit so...

Units coming out of reserves cannot move for the entire turn. Swarmlord hive mind ability let a unit move in the shooting phase just like in the movement phase. This needs a FAQ but I don't think that you can do that.

shogun wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
Thanks luke for the confirmation. Can swarmlord use his hive commander on himself to double move? In other words, can you pod swarmy down in a Tcyte stay just over 9". Then in shoot phase cast hive commander on swarmy to move within an inch of your enemy to charge it the same turn? Or must it be used on a different unit...Obviously the swarmlord is within 6" of itself and it is a unit so...

Units coming out of reserves cannot move for the entire turn. Swarmlord hive mind ability let a unit move in the shooting phase just like in the movement phase. This needs a FAQ but I don't think that you can do that.

I'm not denying that an FAQ would be helpful, but reserves tell us that we can't move further but can "otherwise act normally in the shooting and assault phases"

Clearly the intent is that you can't move any further "in the movement phase" because otherwise you couldn't charge at all (and clearly the intent is for units to be able to do that - just look at GSC Cult ambush)

I'd appreciate an errata but unless you're going to tell me that units coming in from reserves can't charge at all, I'm not buying no Swarmlord move. Not for one second.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, it's not even implied - that very same paragraph says that you CAN charge, and that you can act normally in the shooting phase.

Totally not buying the no Swarmlord move argument.

So what about the Dimachaeron?

I know it was good previously, are there rules now?

We are waiting for the update from Forgeworld which should be coming soon. They've spoiled the Malanthrope, but we have yet to hear about the Dimachaeron.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
We are waiting for the update from Forgeworld which should be coming soon. They've spoiled the Malanthrope, but we have yet to hear about the Dimachaeron.

They didn't spoil it, ridiculously powerful units got downgraded across the board in every codex even Knights the Malanthrope is now a viable HQ unit which is balanced.

I think the Malanthrope is going to shine in classic walking bugs lists. A Malanthrope walking three pairs of screamer killers up the table is a nasty threat, and it nets you the extra CP.

I even see some justification for running both Malenthrop's and Venomthropes I the same build. Those C-fexes would love to be screened by some big squads on Hormas or 'stealers, who want the Venomthrope bonus and have big enough squads that you can tail some back to the slower Venomthrope.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
We are waiting for the update from Forgeworld which should be coming soon. They've spoiled the Malanthrope, but we have yet to hear about the Dimachaeron.

They didn't spoil it, ridiculously powerful units got downgraded across the board in every codex even Knights the Malanthrope is now a viable HQ unit which is balanced.

"Spoil" means they have revealed what the rules are - not that they ruined it.

babelfish wrote:
I think the Malanthrope is going to shine in classic walking bugs lists. A Malanthrope walking three pairs of screamer killers up the table is a nasty threat, and it nets you the extra CP.

I even see some justification for running both Malenthrop's and Venomthropes I the same build. Those C-fexes would love to be screened by some big squads on Hormas or 'stealers, who want the Venomthrope bonus and have big enough squads that you can tail some back to the slower Venomthrope.

I think we're talking about too big a point investment, eventually. I see it more of an either/or. In most competitive games i've played, or watched thus far, every unit needs to do work. There are already lists emerging that are soooo powerful, and throwing tremendous amounts of long-range shots, with re-rolls, etc... That spending those points in Venoms to save a fractional value in points of infantry, becomes less appealing eventually. Malenthrope w/Old One Eye and CC-Fexes might be a justifiable "death-star" of sorts, though.

Venomthropes are also getting, IMO, their "auto-take" status a little too quickly because they're really only good with Gants. Gaunts and Genestealers will leave them behind sooooo quickly. Its the same reason I think Zoanthropes are in a weird place. I love mortal-wounds, but as Synapse, are we trying to keep them within 18" for Smite/Super-Smite, or held back for Synapse? The roles just don't synergize.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCMENT: When I get home from work late tonight I will be removing the images from the OP. Starting tomorrow these are not leaks. According to Dakkas rules we cannot have them on the forum. I will replace them with the dataslates from GWs website or we can move to the other thread. But these images will no longer be posted here by me.

Again, you got roughly 12 hours before these images are gone.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

babelfish wrote:
I think the Malanthrope is going to shine in classic walking bugs lists. A Malanthrope walking three pairs of screamer killers up the table is a nasty threat, and it nets you the extra CP.

I even see some justification for running both Malenthrop's and Venomthropes I the same build. Those C-fexes would love to be screened by some big squads on Hormas or 'stealers, who want the Venomthrope bonus and have big enough squads that you can tail some back to the slower Venomthrope.

I think we're talking about too big a point investment, eventually. I see it more of an either/or. In most competitive games i've played, or watched thus far, every unit needs to do work. There are already lists emerging that are soooo powerful, and throwing tremendous amounts of long-range shots, with re-rolls, etc... That spending those points in Venoms to save a fractional value in points of infantry, becomes less appealing eventually. Malenthrope w/Old One Eye and CC-Fexes might be a justifiable "death-star" of sorts, though.

Venomthropes are also getting, IMO, their "auto-take" status a little too quickly because they're really only good with Gants. Gaunts and Genestealers will leave them behind sooooo quickly. Its the same reason I think Zoanthropes are in a weird place. I love mortal-wounds, but as Synapse, are we trying to keep them within 18" for Smite/Super-Smite, or held back for Synapse? The roles just don't synergize.

I agree with you on the auto take thing. I think that both coverthropes are more situational than they used to be. I'm also in a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks mindset right now, what with how new the edition is and how so many of our units went from useless to playable.

My mindset towards Zoeys is shifting towards being as aggressive as possible. We have lots of strong options in the fast synapse role to keep frontline guys happy. If I'm going to run units that need a backfield babysitter I like Primes and Tervigons or even Warriors more than Zoenthropes.

Guys where we can find warlord traits in the 8th ?

Nasty wrote:
Guys where we can find warlord traits in the 8th ?

The core rule book. There are only 3. Codexes will have faction specific ones.

Good old GW writing..

So I was looking at Old One Eye's alpha beast rule..

so buffs any friendly Key word <hive fleet> Carnifex

So OOE has both key words.. but Carnifexes, do not have that key word as they have Carnifexes

GodDamUser wrote:
Good old GW writing..

So I was looking at Old One Eye's alpha beast rule..

so buffs any friendly Key word <hive fleet> Carnifex

So OOE has both key words.. but Carnifexes, do not have that key word as they have Carnifexes

I think it only specifies that the Carnifex unit needs to have the <Hive Fleet> keyword, as it is the only one bolded, but then again, it also says carnifex units, but not bolded like the keywords usually are.
But yeah, GW really shot themself in the leg with this keyword thing, as they clearly have a hard time staying consistent on using them.

 luke1705 wrote:

shogun wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:
Thanks luke for the confirmation. Can swarmlord use his hive commander on himself to double move? In other words, can you pod swarmy down in a Tcyte stay just over 9". Then in shoot phase cast hive commander on swarmy to move within an inch of your enemy to charge it the same turn? Or must it be used on a different unit...Obviously the swarmlord is within 6" of itself and it is a unit so...

Units coming out of reserves cannot move for the entire turn. Swarmlord hive mind ability let a unit move in the shooting phase just like in the movement phase. This needs a FAQ but I don't think that you can do that.

I'm not denying that an FAQ would be helpful, but reserves tell us that we can't move further but can "otherwise act normally in the shooting and assault phases"

Clearly the intent is that you can't move any further "in the movement phase" because otherwise you couldn't charge at all (and clearly the intent is for units to be able to do that - just look at GSC Cult ambush)

I'd appreciate an errata but unless you're going to tell me that units coming in from reserves can't charge at all, I'm not buying no Swarmlord move. Not for one second.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, it's not even implied - that very same paragraph says that you CAN charge, and that you can act normally in the shooting phase.

Totally not buying the no Swarmlord move argument.

Yep, it's again the good old: A=B, B=C, but is A also C?..situation. It can be looked at it from both way's but meanwhile I'am not using it that way to avoid discussion. Just make sure to check this with your opponent.

Razerous wrote:
So what about the Dimachaeron?

I know it was good previously, are there rules now?

So far as I can read it will be 10 power 14 wounds etc..



From the warhammer digital website

Below is a closer up view of the profile,

This thing is fast with a 12" move so hopefully we will be able to get that 5++ quite quickly. The think I don't get is the double strength on a roll to wound of a 6, as there is no ID surely it is now irrelevant?

It's simply a matter of whether or not you want the chance to wound T7 on 2s or 3s.

That doesn't matter because you've already rolled a 6 which wounds everything. It doesn't seem to make sense so far why it's double strength.

You know what, that glossed over my head. I failed to realize it was to wound rolls of 6+.

Maybe its a miss-print and is meant to be to hit? Though it would be quite bad to have a mistake on your sample.

The moment you realize FW sucks even more than GW at writing rules. Leaping is also basically useless. In fact I'm pretty sure that they wanted the claws's ability to be on wound rolls and the talons on hit rolls.

Aside of that, 10 PL so around 200 points, fast attack, fast movement, 14 wounds, 6 attacks hits on 2s, high strength, possible 5++, so not bad at all.

Reading the Deathleaper's "It's After Me!" rule, it appears that if you cannot get within six inches of the chosen character, Deathleaper simply cannot be placed and will die in reserves at the end of turn 3. Do you think this is a typo and he should also have the normal Lictor deployment abilities?

 997Turbo wrote:
Reading the Deathleaper's "It's After Me!" rule, it appears that if you cannot get within six inches of the chosen character, Deathleaper simply cannot be placed and will die in reserves at the end of turn 3. Do you think this is a typo and he should also have the normal Lictor deployment abilities?

That's an interesting observation, but you don't choose the character the Deathleaper is hunting until after deployment so I don't see it being much of a problem. If they have a character entirely surrounded by other units, don't hunt that character. If, after you pick your prey, they decide to adjust their play style to keep the chosen character surrounded at all times, well, it's a bit anticlimactic but I wouldn't say it's a waste.

 Telly wrote:

 997Turbo wrote:
Reading the Deathleaper's "It's After Me!" rule, it appears that if you cannot get within six inches of the chosen character, Deathleaper simply cannot be placed and will die in reserves at the end of turn 3. Do you think this is a typo and he should also have the normal Lictor deployment abilities?

That's an interesting observation, but you don't choose the character the Deathleaper is hunting until after deployment so I don't see it being much of a problem. If they have a character entirely surrounded by other units, don't hunt that character. If, after you pick your prey, they decide to adjust their play style to keep the chosen character surrounded at all times, well, it's a bit anticlimactic but I wouldn't say it's a waste.

Yeah, the latter case means they went first and went out of their way to surround the character (and further keep him that way in subsequent turns) which in most cases is likely to be rather disruptive or at the very least distracting to their battle plan. Plus if they make a mistake or lose models during the fight/psyker phase... Pounce.

minyiky wrote:
Below is a closer up view of the profile,

This thing is fast with a 12" move so hopefully we will be able to get that 5++ quite quickly. The think I don't get is the double strength on a roll to wound of a 6, as there is no ID surely it is now irrelevant?

Okay so this thing vs a Trygon

Trygon;
- Hits 77% with 6 attacks, 1 attack of 67%
- Wounds on 3's or 4's vs. all but T3
- 12 wounds
- Reasonably quick, excellent deployment.
- Stock D6 damage
- Stock AP -3
- Cheaper by about 20-40pts.

Dima
- Hits on 84%
- Wounds on 2's vs T3,4 5
- Wounds 3's basically everything else
- Stock AP -2
- Stock 1 Damage
- Rending of high AP -4 and D6 damage (so better ap by 1 but same damage, so worse in comparison).
- Access to a native 5++

Thoughts?

Razerous wrote:

minyiky wrote:
Below is a closer up view of the profile,

This thing is fast with a 12" move so hopefully we will be able to get that 5++ quite quickly. The think I don't get is the double strength on a roll to wound of a 6, as there is no ID surely it is now irrelevant?

Okay so this thing vs a Trygon

Trygon;
- Hits 77% with 6 attacks, 1 attack of 67%
- Wounds on 3's or 4's vs. all but T3
- 12 wounds
- Reasonably quick, excellent deployment.
- Stock D6 damage
- Stock AP -3
- Cheaper by about 20-40pts.

Dima
- Hits on 84%
- Wounds on 2's vs T3,4 5
- Wounds 3's basically everything else
- Stock AP -2
- Stock 1 Damage
- Rending of high AP -4 and D6 damage (so better ap by 1 but same damage, so worse in comparison).
- Access to a native 5++

Thoughts?

Wouldn't you use the stock D3 damage, I cant see a reason to ever use the other weapon even if it is a mistake, to gain any benefit it would have to be against single wound T6 INFANTRY (which correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't now exist).

On to the comparison, the Trygon is slower (after deployment), more fragile and less of a threat in combat, that being said he is a force multiplier which seem awsome in this edition and is garunteed to be effective as he cant be shot before he arrives. The Dimachaeron is about as likely for a turn 1 charge if given onslaught and a 24" deployment distance (12+3.5 leaves you only 8.5 away and so an 8" charge same as a Trygon with AG) which may actually be less due to the new deployment maps this edition.

The Dimachaeron is also one of our only S10 attacks, both melee and shooting, and certainly the only one that hits on a 2, seems like he could reliably cripple, if not kill, the bigger tanks, and only doing D3 damage will actually be good against things like Wave Serpents and Necron's Quantum Shielding. He is also FA as opposed to HS which I would argue is a less contested slot if that was every an issue for detachments.

Lots of single wound infantry exist.Tac marines, necron warriors, basically all the troop options for every army.

 Lance845 wrote:
Lots of single wound infantry exist.Tac marines, necron warriors, basically all the troop options for every army.

The key point was T6 and single wound, else you might as well use the S10 weapon as it will wound on a 2 all the time.

Color me very surprised. I was expecting the Dimachaeron to be clearly stronger than other options in the nid book. It seems the Trygon wins out IMO, because it has the stock d6 damage and re-rolls 1's.