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 Nazrak wrote:


I'm currently trying to work out how best to mitigate against most buffs only applying to Orks of the same clan, given that my army's currently painted up as a mix of Bad Moons, Evil Suns and Goffs. Seems like I'm going to need to paint up a few more characters from different Clans, then make sure all the same coloured lads get deployed, and operate, together.

For orks this is easy.... Your waaagh is a Demorkracy; every month the bosses have a giant scrap and the person who comes out wiff da most teef is the Elekted Leadur.

You can swap your clan from game to game and not feel bad about it or even have a tie some months where there are two Presiduntz

Pedroig wrote:
Or just call your "clan" My Waaagh clan, which should help for most units currently...

It's not like you currently get any additional Clan benefits like Extra move on bikes, a different Psychic table, or special rules...

Don't think anyone would raise a fuss if you Waaaghed the '<clan>'

Aye, there are certainly ways round it, so I'm not going to get too much of a huff on, just feel like it's a shame you're sort of penalised for doing Proper Clans – but I guess that's what's going to happen if you apply a mechanic intended to avoid SM chapter shenanigans to Orks, who should operate differently. Other than that and the lack of Ardboyz though, I'm pretty excited to crack on with my ladz in 8th.

ooou, someone just pointed this out on 4chan



'ere we go allows for a re-roll of a single dice

 davou wrote:
ooou, someone just pointed this out on 4chan



'ere we go allows for a re-roll of a single dice

wow, yep. EITHER one or two get to be rerolled. Makes those natural nines easier!

Mathed it out. Chance of getting a 9 with rerolling (both dice if both are 3 or less, otherwise rerolling one if you have a 4, 5 or 6) is 57%. Still not great, but better than half of the time you'll get in from "deep strike".

Also: being forced to re-roll both gives a 40% chance of getting a 9. The 7e way of rerolling 1 die gives a 52% chance.

Since most of us assumed we'd have to reroll both, this little find changed a nerf to a buff! Good find!

edit. Nevermind. I figured it out. Neat.

SemperMortis wrote:
I'll take that bet....especially since that is the same fething mentality people were preaching at the start of 6th and 7th.

I remember that people thought 6th would "tone down" 40k as many of the power builds of mass Razorbacks got brought down due to Hullpoints and aircraft. Then Chaos got assfire Heldrakes, Tau got Riptides and Eldar got Serpents.

Then they thought 7th would be "more balanced" as Orks, Dark Eldar and Grey Knights got nerfbat codexes...then the Decurion came out and Scatpack Eldar.

Both from an internal and external perspective, GW is good at making the Treaty of Versailles look balanced.

More balanced than the Treaty of Westphalia...

Hmm, I'm not sure that interpretation's right. It's just covering all the various possibilities of what different re-rolls might allow. The "charge roll" (as per Ere We Go) is both dice, I would say. Deffo one that could do with clarification though.

 Nazrak wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure that interpretation's right. It's just covering all the various possibilities of what different re-rolls might allow. The "charge roll" (as per Ere We Go) is both dice, I would say. Deffo one that could do with clarification though.

I think we're ok. It says "A unit with this ability can reroll failed charge rolls." We are rerolling a roll, not a die or dice, which is exactly the same verbage as the image above.

Some or all, very clear...

I agree with he interpretation having now read both... but i forsee this causing much headache explaining in the future

 Nazrak wrote:
I'm currently trying to work out how best to mitigate against most buffs only applying to Orks of the same clan, given that my army's currently painted up as a mix of Bad Moons, Evil Suns and Goffs. Seems like I'm going to need to paint up a few more characters from different Clans, then make sure all the same coloured lads get deployed, and operate, together.

Presumably, once we get clan rules, we'll each get a minor buff per clan. Your boyz might be the best off of the bunch, as you could make "divisions" which each having their own buff. One group could go attack vehicles, another could hold back and snipe, etc.

Until then you could practice with divisions of each, although you'd need more HQs to buff the groups separately.

Something else I noticed from my games is that boyz are incredibly weak against vehicles which, in fairness, makes a decent amount of sense.

But for context, it took boyz (with a boss nob with PK) 3 separate charges to take out a wyvern. And each time it got to overwatch with everything, which didn't hurt a TON, but it added up.

But then again, a group of 8 nobz with big choppas annihilated a knight before it could swing.

So, I guess my point is that's important to use the right tool for the job - in the case of vehicles, use rokkits / lootas / mek guns, or a lot of big chopppas/klaws.

Pedroig wrote:
Or just call your "clan" My Waaagh clan, which should help for most units currently...

It's not like you currently get any additional Clan benefits like Extra move on bikes, a different Psychic table, or special rules...

Don't think anyone would raise a fuss if you Waaaghed the '<clan>'

currently you get in trouble if you want to use special characters... ghaz is goff snikrot is blood axes. if you want em to buff your units all of em have to have the same clan. same goes for flashgitz, since they have no clan tag they cant be buffed.

RedNoak wrote:

currently you get in trouble if you want to use special characters... ghaz is goff snikrot is blood axes. if you want em to buff your units all of em have to have the same clan. same goes for flashgitz, since they have no clan tag they cant be buffed.

Since i'm blood axes all the way, I guess it's snikrot for me! My snikrot is missing his arm...anyone got an extra?

just clamp in a boyz arm... it will grow to proppa size n colour in no time!

RedNoak wrote:
just clamp in a boyz arm... it will grow to proppa size n colour in no time!

It's more the knife with a compass that I'm looking for

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I'm currently trying to work out how best to mitigate against most buffs only applying to Orks of the same clan, given that my army's currently painted up as a mix of Bad Moons, Evil Suns and Goffs. Seems like I'm going to need to paint up a few more characters from different Clans, then make sure all the same coloured lads get deployed, and operate, together.

Presumably, once we get clan rules, we'll each get a minor buff per clan. Your boyz might be the best off of the bunch, as you could make "divisions" which each having their own buff. One group could go attack vehicles, another could hold back and snipe, etc.

Until then you could practice with divisions of each, although you'd need more HQs to buff the groups separately.

From what I've seen, any faction bonus rules will probably be in the form of new stratagems which you only get if all units in the army share the right keyword. Shifting battlefield roles might be done with detachment-wide keywords or just assigning the unit to the right faction.

RedNoak wrote:

Pedroig wrote:
Or just call your "clan" My Waaagh clan, which should help for most units currently...

It's not like you currently get any additional Clan benefits like Extra move on bikes, a different Psychic table, or special rules...

Don't think anyone would raise a fuss if you Waaaghed the '<clan>'

currently you get in trouble if you want to use special characters... ghaz is goff snikrot is blood axes. if you want em to buff your units all of em have to have the same clan. same goes for flashgitz, since they have no clan tag they cant be buffed.

Right now this really isn't an issue since there is no benefit or requirement that your entire force (or even detachment) be from a single clan.

Ghaz buffs effect all Ork infantry or Ork units, unlike other warbosses he is not limited by Clan

Snikrot buffs only Kommandos, so make your commandos Blood axes

Badrukk buffs flashgits regardless of Clan

Zagstruk buffs goff stormboyz so make your stomboyz goffs

So unless from a fluff standpoint you don't want to mix and match, right now there is nothing requiring you to do so,

In fact it is more of an issue with non-special characters like standard warboss (for morale), painboy, and mek(or big mek) only effect clan units.

 JimOnMars wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

currently you get in trouble if you want to use special characters... ghaz is goff snikrot is blood axes. if you want em to buff your units all of em have to have the same clan. same goes for flashgitz, since they have no clan tag they cant be buffed.

Since i'm blood axes all the way, I guess it's snikrot for me! My snikrot is missing his arm...anyone got an extra?

demon prince arm with sword, cheap as chips on ebay as most people use the axe and to represent his killa str ... doo eeet

I HAVE PROOF!

That Ork Boyz keep their attack bonus if they start with lot's of Boyz.

Well, it's more like I have a really strong argument for it.

Genestealer have a similar rule but completely different that states...

"Genestealers have 4 attacks instead of 3 whilst their unit has 10 or more models."

If this was their intention for Boyz, then why not add the same "whilst" to the Boyz?

I'm currently on my 4th game with orks. The first 3 were against Blood angels the 4th still going on aka have to finish it tonight, is against daemons. The first 3 are ork victories and this 4th one started out rough but looks to be turning into yet another victory. I don't know what you're seeing that makes orks look nerfed in comparison. But in this current game I had 2 20+ boy squads put 7 wounds on a soul grinder with their pistols before charging it and killing it. Shokk attack guns have been killing landraiders with their D6 damage. Weirdboys have also reliably been putting D6 mortal wounds onto vehicles with the Waagh Energy special rule. Character buffs are a different story because having them in range but not make a charge can end up with units out of range unless you string them out.

But in this current game I had 2 20+ boy squads put 7 wounds on a soul grinder with their pistols before charging it and killing it.

Can I have your dice? Cause wow... That just sounds amazingly lucky.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

But in this current game I had 2 20+ boy squads put 7 wounds on a soul grinder with their pistols before charging it and killing it.

Can I have your dice? Cause wow... That just sounds amazingly lucky.

It was very lucky but 45 shots, 5+ then 5+. then he only has a 4++ save. It's actually funny because the squad of tankbustas I fired right after didn't do jack. For the most part I've found that the ork boys squads have been my most reliable units. This game I had 1 25 man, 2 22 man squads. then a 20 man stromboy squad. Morale issues are non existent because he has to whittle all squads down before I face issues. 1 boy squad lost 18 in CC last turn and they didn't face morale because of the 22 man squad right next to them. d6 roll was a 3. 3+ 18 =21 LD 22 meant no lost orks. Overall I'm happy with the changes so far, need to play other armies though

mhalko1 wrote:
I'm currently on my 4th game with orks. The first 3 were against Blood angels the 4th still going on aka have to finish it tonight, is against daemons. The first 3 are ork victories and this 4th one started out rough but looks to be turning into yet another victory. I don't know what you're seeing that makes orks look nerfed in comparison. But in this current game I had 2 20+ boy squads put 7 wounds on a soul grinder with their pistols before charging it and killing it. Shokk attack guns have been killing landraiders with their D6 damage. Weirdboys have also reliably been putting D6 mortal wounds onto vehicles with the Waagh Energy special rule. Character buffs are a different story because having them in range but not make a charge can end up with units out of range unless you string them out.

All I wanted to hear was that people were winning around half their games with orks. Winning most of them is a pleasant surprise, but I certainly hope that things like that are adjusted quickly.

Also I suspect that actual games happening now kicked the legs out from under Sempers naysaying Lets hope he can enjoy his army now

 Talamare wrote:
I HAVE PROOF!

That Ork Boyz keep their attack bonus if they start with lot's of Boyz.

Well, it's more like I have a really strong argument for it.

Genestealer have a similar rule but completely different that states...

"Genestealers have 4 attacks instead of 3 whilst their unit has 10 or more models."

If this was their intention for Boyz, then why not add the same "whilst" to the Boyz?

There is very little consistency between the buff rules for units having high numbers of models

Termagants/Gargoyles - If this unit contains 20 or more models, you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 when shooting.

Hormagaunts- If this unit contains 20 or more models, you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 when it fights

Purestrain Genestealers - same as you mention

Plaugebearers - If this unit contains20 or more at the start of a phase ...

Daemonettes - increase attacks by 1 for each model in this unit whilst it contains 20 or more models

Bloodletters - add 1 to your to hit roll.. whilst it contains 20 or more models.

I tend to think that given how these all seem to work it is reasonable to assume that Boyz only get +1 attack if they have 20 + models at the time that they attack. At least that is what I will assume, if I get proven wrong later at least it will only be to my advantage.

 Talamare wrote:
I HAVE PROOF!

That Ork Boyz keep their attack bonus if they start with lot's of Boyz.

Well, it's more like I have a really strong argument for it.

Genestealer have a similar rule but completely different that states...

"Genestealers have 4 attacks instead of 3 whilst their unit has 10 or more models."

If this was their intention for Boyz, then why not add the same "whilst" to the Boyz?

Because with Bespoke rules, you'll see this all the time? Different bespoke rule, different wording.

I don't buy your argument at all. "If a unit includes 20 or more models," does not preclude losing the bonus due to casualties. If I purchase 30 boys and lose 11 of them, my unit no longer 'includes' 20 or more boys. It now "includes" 19 boys. If it said "starts with" or "includED" then you'd have an argument.

I guarantee if you tried this at any tournament, it would get shot down in a heartbeat.

 davou wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'm currently on my 4th game with orks. The first 3 were against Blood angels the 4th still going on aka have to finish it tonight, is against daemons. The first 3 are ork victories and this 4th one started out rough but looks to be turning into yet another victory. I don't know what you're seeing that makes orks look nerfed in comparison. But in this current game I had 2 20+ boy squads put 7 wounds on a soul grinder with their pistols before charging it and killing it. Shokk attack guns have been killing landraiders with their D6 damage. Weirdboys have also reliably been putting D6 mortal wounds onto vehicles with the Waagh Energy special rule. Character buffs are a different story because having them in range but not make a charge can end up with units out of range unless you string them out.

All I wanted to hear was that people were winning around half their games with orks. Winning most of them is a pleasant surprise, but I certainly hope that things like that are adjusted quickly.

Also I suspect that actual games happening now kicked the legs out from under Sempers naysaying Lets hope he can enjoy his army now

Well it's not all the army. My opponent made a few errors. Including rushing landraiders forward after unloading tac squads only for me to ignore the tac squad and charge the Landraider. That means that in addition to this combat, he either has to fall back and not fire with it, or suffer more close combats. With 8th small changes in model placement can completely screw you, so this is where the strategy comes in.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

But in this current game I had 2 20+ boy squads put 7 wounds on a soul grinder with their pistols before charging it and killing it.

Can I have your dice? Cause wow... That just sounds amazingly lucky.

40 * 1/3 accuracy * 1/3 wounds * 1/3 saves = 1.5

So yea, definitely lucky
Wait!! he said 20"""+"""" Boyz, so Let's say it was 60 Boyz

60 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 2.22

... meh
Altho, They would do well during the actual melee
4 attacks per Boyz since they kept their Pistols means 160-240 attacks
160 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 11.85
240 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 17.77

Soul Grinders have 14 wounds, so definitely possible