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Am I the only one dissapointed with todays spoiler on Facebook?

Bobafett012:

Did you notice any other big changes? Now that is some good news about some great points drops. I have been thinking of building a Librarian Dread, and that pretty much sells me on the idea, since a regular Librarian with Jump Pack doesn't really hold a candle to that kind of offensive power.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Am I the only one dissapointed with todays spoiler on Facebook?

Bobafett012:

Did you notice any other big changes? Now that is some good news about some great points drops. I have been thinking of building a Librarian Dread, and that pretty much sells me on the idea, since a regular Librarian with Jump Pack doesn't really hold a candle to that kind of offensive power.

I came in about halfway through so I missed some stuff, but those point cost reductions stuck out quite a bit. sounds like black rage is the same as it is in the book. they talked about a relic weapon. A sword that is users strength, -3 AP and damage , but against monsters it's D3 damage, and against daemons it's D6 damage. thats ok. They talked about a strategem that made the BA tanks go faster, and baals got even more of a bonus from it. I thought I heard them say there was a strategem that allowed BA to charge longer distances but I could be wrong on that one.

bobafett012 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Am I the only one dissapointed with todays spoiler on Facebook?

Bobafett012:

Did you notice any other big changes? Now that is some good news about some great points drops. I have been thinking of building a Librarian Dread, and that pretty much sells me on the idea, since a regular Librarian with Jump Pack doesn't really hold a candle to that kind of offensive power.

I came in about halfway through so I missed some stuff, but those point cost reductions stuck out quite a bit. sounds like black rage is the same as it is in the book. they talked about a relic weapon. A sword that is users strength, -3 AP and damage , but against monsters it's D3 damage, and against daemons it's D6 damage. thats ok. They talked about a strategem that made the BA tanks go faster, and baals got even more of a bonus from it. I thought I heard them say there was a strategem that allowed BA to charge longer distances but I could be wrong on that one.

Now THAT is some interesting information. I have been running a double Battalion army in preparation for the new Codex, since having 9 CP would allow me to use our Strategems more and potentially maximize the damage output of my army early on in the game. With the rumored points drops I end up with a good chunk of leftover points that could be used for a Librarian Dread, or upgrading my Assault Marines to Vanguard Vets. I cannot wait.

I want to know if the DC Dread dropped in points to?

And wanted an opinion on this. From what I've seen TH will go down to 16 points but with the change to Inferno pistols dropping to 9, would it be worthwhile to drop the TH for a chainsword/inferno pistol? Have more attacks for horde but can still fire it in combat and you'd get 2 pistols for 2 more points than the TH. Of course you'd loose shots from the bg/bp but have the chance at putting out a lot more wounds. Also, with the +1 from red thirst you'd be wounding most everyting on 2/3+.

Or even mix and match inferno pistols and pf in a squad. Also this is all in reference to DC. I didn't hear them say anything about their points.

 ILegion wrote:
I want to know if the DC Dread dropped in points to?

And wanted an opinion on this. From what I've seen TH will go down to 16 points but with the change to Inferno pistols dropping to 9, would it be worthwhile to drop the TH for a chainsword/inferno pistol? Have more attacks for horde but can still fire it in combat and you'd get 2 pistols for 2 more points than the TH. Of course you'd loose shots from the bg/bp but have the chance at putting out a lot more wounds. Also, with the +1 from red thirst you'd be wounding most everyting on 2/3+.

The problem with pistols is that if you charge, your going through 2 CC phases before you can take a single shot with a pistol, that's why the melee weapons are more important. They get your damage done. However, I don't think having a couple inferno pistols is a bad idea in a DC squad at all. I generally run mine with a TH or 2, some axes, although with the +1 to wound, all axes in my army will likely change to swords. Which is good and bad, the good is you don't necessarily need sanguinary priests since your hitting on 3's most of the time anyways, the bad news is, you don't need sanguinary priests which is a huge part of BA army/fluff etc etc.

Yeah I've been running mine with TH and PS with a priest. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with my priest now. Only thing I can think of is it could put the TH up to str 9 if you need to charge a T8 model.

I haven't used the pistol just because it's so expensive but I think i'm about to have a couple in my dc squad now.

bobafett012 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Am I the only one dissapointed with todays spoiler on Facebook?

Bobafett012:

Did you notice any other big changes? Now that is some good news about some great points drops. I have been thinking of building a Librarian Dread, and that pretty much sells me on the idea, since a regular Librarian with Jump Pack doesn't really hold a candle to that kind of offensive power.

I came in about halfway through so I missed some stuff, but those point cost reductions stuck out quite a bit. sounds like black rage is the same as it is in the book. they talked about a relic weapon. A sword that is users strength, -3 AP and damage , but against monsters it's D3 damage, and against daemons it's D6 damage. thats ok. They talked about a strategem that made the BA tanks go faster, and baals got even more of a bonus from it. I thought I heard them say there was a strategem that allowed BA to charge longer distances but I could be wrong on that one.

I thought I heard the same thing about longer charge distances. Tried to get clarification but they didn't see it. Hopefully it's true. There was also a thing about moving Death Company before the game starts. Could be a thing.

Raulengrin wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Am I the only one dissapointed with todays spoiler on Facebook?

Bobafett012:

Did you notice any other big changes? Now that is some good news about some great points drops. I have been thinking of building a Librarian Dread, and that pretty much sells me on the idea, since a regular Librarian with Jump Pack doesn't really hold a candle to that kind of offensive power.

I came in about halfway through so I missed some stuff, but those point cost reductions stuck out quite a bit. sounds like black rage is the same as it is in the book. they talked about a relic weapon. A sword that is users strength, -3 AP and damage , but against monsters it's D3 damage, and against daemons it's D6 damage. thats ok. They talked about a strategem that made the BA tanks go faster, and baals got even more of a bonus from it. I thought I heard them say there was a strategem that allowed BA to charge longer distances but I could be wrong on that one.

I thought I heard the same thing about longer charge distances. Tried to get clarification but they didn't see it. Hopefully it's true. There was also a thing about moving Death Company before the game starts. Could be a thing.

I would be good with that as i am generally using my CPs to re-roll dice for charge distance anyways, and if one of them isn't at least a 5 or 6, I don't bother, so maybe this would be what BA needs to ensure charges off DS. Here's to hoping.

What I didn't hear any talk about was anything to make ASMs even remotely worth taking over VV, DC, command squad with JPs, and that's a shame. they needed a boost within BA otherwise I see no reason to bother with them.

Would arming my intercessors with Auto bolt rifles be a good idea? Being able to charge up the board while still shooting seems like a good thing to have for BAngels

Infernos for 9 and 1 point hand flamers?

SIGN ME THE **** UP

Well, that will make for me making one of my Assault Squads having Inferno Pistols instead of Plasma Pistols.

Tabletop Tactics put up a bat rep with the new BA Codex 1 hour ago! Watching it now for the pre-game Codex review.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it is confirmed that the Chapter Approved points changes are in the BA Codex! Woo-hoo!

They start talking about the Codex at roughly the 16 minute mark if you want to skip the talk about the World Eaters army.

Here is a list I came up with for the new Codex, I apologize in advance for it being hand written, but BattleScribe isn't updated with the new points costs and added units like the LT (surprise surprise, the book isn't even out yet!).

I really like Vanguard Vets with The Red Thirst, I didn't run a Chaplain with them since it seemed to be way too many points to sink into supporting them when they aren't likely to live long past Deep Striking in. With 40 attacks (the Librarian will be dropping with them), I am willing to play the odds that they can kill what they need to/tie up enough units to be of worth.

The new Strategem giving a Jump Pack unit a 3D6 charge range the turn they drop in will make charges with them far more reliable, and allow them to potentially push far into enemy lines and get more models into combat.

I feel that focusing purely on melee still won't be a great option for us BA players, so heavy weapons is still a must for us. What are you guys coming up with for our new book?

here is a pretty in depth look at the codex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukXWyZ_9zwE

bobafett012 wrote:
here is a pretty in depth look at the codex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukXWyZ_9zwE

Hah, yeah I found that one after I posted up about the Tabletop Tactics bat rep. I was just so happy that there was apparently some kick-butt Strategens and points drops for our book.

Man. Looks like we lucked out with our Codex, it could have been far worse, but I actually look forward to pre ordering the book now.

Yeah Sanguinary Guard going down 8ppm is awesome

I'm probably going a full Primaris army with some assault termies and Sanguinary Guard chucked in haha. And a librarian dread for good measure

I'm loving the look of Primaris BA as well. My starter is all painted up BA ready to go.

Probably going to build around a core of 6 Aggressors(3 BA kit + 3 EZ Build) backed up by Primaris Libby, Primaris Chaplain and Primaris Ancient with the relic banner. 4++ and 5+++ on T5 2W goes a lomg way as my experience with Blightlords shows.

One thing that seems pretty interesting to me is a Librarian with Jump Pack casting Wings of Sanguinius on themselves for 24" of movement. Should make for great late turn objective grabbing, or meeting up with other assault units to pass out buffs, or snipe a wounded character with Smite.

It also seems to have some utility with buffs applied to himself as a decent assassin against lower powered buff characters. Applying the buffs to himself before casting Wings should allow him to somewhat stay out of deny range before boosting in and assassinating something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I saw in WintersSEO's review of the Relics seems like kind of a letdown. From what he said it does seem that BA Successors only get access to a single relic, while others seem like they could very useful.

Having a relic that allows a back field buff character to deny a Psychic Power seems like it could be incredibly useful. That kind of makes me think about going Blood Angels over a Successor, since if my buff bot Captain is in melee, he is probably dead anyways.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
One thing that seems pretty interesting to me is a Librarian with Jump Pack casting Wings of Sanguinius on themselves for 24" of movement. Should make for great late turn objective grabbing, or meeting up with other assault units to pass out buffs, or snipe a wounded character with Smite.

Can cast 2 powers, so could cast wings and the quickening giving them 24" of move 2D6+3" of charge, +D3 attacks. so that's a possible 39" charge and if you gave him the jump pack relic, he gets to re-roll charge range and no over watch.

EDIT: so Blood Talons got fixed. they are now +4 str, -2 AP, 3 damage, and you get to re-roll all hits AND wounds. now that makes me consider them over fists.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
I'm loving the look of Primaris BA as well. My starter is all painted up BA ready to go.

Probably going to build around a core of 6 Aggressors(3 BA kit + 3 EZ Build) backed up by Primaris Libby, Primaris Chaplain and Primaris Ancient with the relic banner. 4++ and 5+++ on T5 2W goes a lomg way as my experience with Blightlords shows.

Yeah this looks pretty good. I'd be tempted though to chuck the aggressors into a repulsor and charge it up the board using one of the new stratagems, allowing a vehicle to move an additional 6"

I am really hopeful with these new stratagems and the red thirst. Among other things I plan to field a 15 man DC unit with various weapons, supported by Lemartes and maybe a JP Lieutenant with the new Death Visions of Sanguinius stratagem. That DC unit is going to hit a lot harder now with the new +1 to wound on the charge and above all their prior 50/50 of landing the charge from deep strike is now a 93% with Descent of Angels. This strategy is vulnerable to an opponent with scouting units blocking your deepstrike but even then you have to option of deploying them regularly and rushing them across the field with the DC stratagem. As long as you get the first turn this gives you a 24+d6'' move and then a regular charge, basically another way of landing that turn 1 charge but vulnerable to the turn rolloff. Another vulnerability could be morale damage given the size of the unit. If that turns out to be a problem it can be ignored if you choose to bring a JP Lieutenant and make him your warlord with the fearless aura trait.

Now while it's sad that DC don't get to attack twice in melee like the rumor mill suggested, they can still do so with the use of another stratagem - pricy at 3 CP but possibly gamewinning. At that point you will have burned through 6-7 CP which is a big investment, but consider that none of this is more expensive in terms of pts. It's all just stratagems and a warlord trait - given that BA weren't doing much with their CP previously it's a free upgrade in my book.

I've heard differing accounts of whether DC actually changed price or not. I think winters said they were unchanged around his 19 minute mark, but the TTtactics guys mentioned them getting cheaper.

That aside I'm thinking that my common basic list blueprint will be a vanguard detachment of:
-Big unit of DC to take free move and then move again and try a charge t1.
-Lemartes to DS in near the DC to make their charge rerollable and reroll hits. He's only a coin flip at making his own charge, but with a big unit of DC, someone can stay back in his aura.
-Big unit of SG to descent of angels charge t1.
-SG ancient to give the SG reroll 1's to wound, fearless, and hold the relic FNP 5+ banner. Probs be the warlord so the SG can also reroll hits for him being nearby. Not sure what trait he'd want yet. Maybe just the 6" intervention.

That seems like one of the best "core" blueprints at around 800ish points for the max size squads depending on exact wargear, and after that I'd just adjust to fit the point level. Obv need at least two more units to start on the table so that 3 can DS, which could be as little as a couple scout squads to fit in under 1k easily, but against all but the most elite armies, probably looking at having less deployments for +1 to first turn roll. This blueprint does want to spend ALL 4 of it's CP immediately though.

Probs want to get a battallion mixed in for more CP at 2k. Thinking Mephy or libby dread would make a great deployed HQ for another detachment as a move + wings + quickening could threaten another early charge.

I've heard DC are the same price, but have more rules.

I'm looking forward to the terminator-specific stratagem. Because getting rerolls on ALL attacks on a turn of shooting+charge is lookin' pretty damn good.

This all makes me want to take out all my bling units- DC, SG, libby dread. Exciting times.

Sounds like Characters may be unchanged. I was hoping Dante would give more CP like Calgar/guillman do.

Another thing I thought of, is Deep Striking a Jump Pack Librarian with the relic Jump Pack in with a squad of Vanguard Vets. Cast Unleash Rage on the Vets, and Wings of Sanguinius on himself to set up an impossible to fail charge and stop Overwatch so the Vets can come in unmolested.

I will be trying that out next week when the book is out, it seems like it can be very powerful when trying to charge units with auto-hitting weapons.

The more I think about that relic banner that let's you get a CP on a 5= when you use a strategem, the worse I think it is. I mean, many of the good BA strategems are 2CPs, and if you only have 5 or 6 CPs to begin with, it's just not going to be very efficient. Now if you had 6+ CPs and only used 1 CP strats, then i'd say it might be worth it.

I think the FnP banner, the Thunder Hammer, and the JP relics are the best ones.

Martel732 wrote:
I've heard DC are the same price, but have more rules.

Not from the couple codex reviews i've seen. same points, same rules.

 Melissia wrote:
I'm looking forward to the terminator-specific stratagem. Because getting rerolls on ALL attacks on a turn of shooting+charge is lookin' pretty damn good.

I've found that to be one of the weaker strategems the BA have. Cost 2 CP to give them an ability that many characters, like Dante already give. If you take assault terms then you miss out on the shooting, and if you fail the charge, the entire strategem is wasted. If you take tactical terms, you get the shooting but if you fail your charge your paying to CPs to re-roll storm bolters and a heavy weapon. Just not worth 2, i'd rather DS Dante next to them and get the same benefit plus have a CC beast to charge in next turn.

I don't use dante. In fact, I don't use any named characters, on principle-- yes, I know I know, "rename them to someone else", nah, no thanks.

Regardless, I'm using terminators primarily (along with some scouts and jump pack death company) so anything that's specific to them is something I like.

What does my boy Martel think about the new codex? The authority must speak.

I'm no Martel, so obviously my word counts for very little, but I'm really looking forward to this book. The points cost changes, the stratagems, the relics, all are good.

That's good to hear, BA have been in a weird spot for awhile.

Do you see a primarily melee build being viable?