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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
All that does is further encourage MSU. Ignores Cover is a better benefit so I would recommend sticking with that. The rest though seems decent.

The revival trait is good. The Objective Secured is too specific (because Objective Secured is a non-rule) but I think it really only benefits Dreads in a funny manner if you're using them to camp and shoot.

Slay The Tyrant is actually really good. I like that.

The Bolt Rifle relic is about the same level as Primarchs Wrath. It's fine for a buffing character if you want them to actually contribute, and that's about it.

Agreed, though I think people will be surprised and how effective this CT is against large groups of chaff units.

Tried and tested brigade

"Black" Templar Brigade
Chapter Master on bike - PF/SS, Storm of Fire, BT Relic
JP Captain - TH/Ss
LT - SB/CS

3x5 Crusaders - Plasma gun, plasma cannon, combi plas (Can easily swap to 3x5 scouts for any chapter)
3x5 Scouts

3x2 Veterans - SB/CS

3x1 Razorback - Asscan/SB
1x1 Razorback - TLLC

3x1 Tarantula Heavy Bolter

3x1 Predator - AC/LC/HKM

12 CP after you take the Chapter master upgrade. Has a 9" bubble for rerolls and storm of fire (Doubles total area of buff). BT can make it a sword brethern detachment if they want to turn the JP captain into an off-brand smash (1CP for form, 1CP for his WL trait, then 1 or 2 CP to activate his strats).

If you go first you will dumpster almost any big target in the game with killshot/storm of fire, but if you go second you're probably going to have a bad time. You need to hide all 3 preds out of LOS, then be able to move them close enough to eachother to activate KS and still have LOS to viable targets.

It's far from ideal, but it's one of the strongest non-UM builds we have available. I've won far more than I've lost, but victory lies so heavily in the hands of first turn (Or surviving first turn unscathed) that it's not exactly a reliable army to take to a GT.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Tried making a brigade of Space Marines for the hell of it. Fast attack is pretty rough; you have a choice of landspeeders if you just want a cheap filler or inceptors if you want a useful unit. Was surprised to find out a dakka-predator is cheaper than a squad of hellblasters. Went for intercessors over scouts for useful units. All in all, this is probably an obvious statement, but a brigade of Space Marines doesn't use points all that efficiently.

No better Fast Attack than the Tarantula Sentry Gun with the Heavy Bolters.

Lemondish wrote:
The new bolt rifle is weird since the only characters I can think of that can carry one is an Ancient...everyone else has auto or stalker, right?

Wait! They couldn't be so stupid that they would have limited it to characters with regular bolt rifles only... Or could they?

Could someone who's seen the actual article clarify?

 Crimson wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
The new bolt rifle is weird since the only characters I can think of that can carry one is an Ancient...everyone else has auto or stalker, right?

Wait! They couldn't be so stupid that they would have limited it to characters with regular bolt rifles only... Or could they?

Could someone who's seen the actual article clarify?

It works on mc Auto and mc Stalker Bolt Rifles as well, so LTs and Captains can take it.

 Crimson wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
The new bolt rifle is weird since the only characters I can think of that can carry one is an Ancient...everyone else has auto or stalker, right?

Wait! They couldn't be so stupid that they would have limited it to characters with regular bolt rifles only... Or could they?

Could someone who's seen the actual article clarify?

Apologies for the confusion - I should have edited that post once I saw the picture of the page. It replaces the bolt rifle, mc auto, or mc stalker.

I'm thinking it works best on an LT with the Vigilus specialist detachment warlord trait. Both auras and a great Bolter to contribute with.

OK. Good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So does the tactic cause the bolter drill to trigger on 5+?

 Crimson wrote:

So does the tactic cause the bolter drill to trigger on 5+?

There’s no reason I can see why not. It’s just like any other modifier.

 Crimson wrote:
OK. Good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So does the tactic cause the bolter drill to trigger on 5+?

Yes it does. Bolter Drill triggers on a 6+ normally, 5s become 6s. So sticking Bolter Drill on Aggressors makes for a ton of shots being fired.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Tried making a brigade of Space Marines for the hell of it. Fast attack is pretty rough; you have a choice of landspeeders if you just want a cheap filler or inceptors if you want a useful unit. Was surprised to find out a dakka-predator is cheaper than a squad of hellblasters. Went for intercessors over scouts for useful units. All in all, this is probably an obvious statement, but a brigade of Space Marines doesn't use points all that efficiently.

Attack Bikes are suuuuper cheap now. 35 points for an Attack bike with a Heavy Bolter. 105 points fills your Fast Attack with fast, low profile, 3 Heavy Bolters and 6 Bolters. If you care to minimize elites, Command Squads can be in units of 2. Command Squads are great units, so I wouldn't necessarily do that, but it's another useful quirk.

Scout bikes are a good cheap choice that can kick out the bullets and be generally annoying

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Tried making a brigade of Space Marines for the hell of it. Fast attack is pretty rough; you have a choice of landspeeders if you just want a cheap filler or inceptors if you want a useful unit. Was surprised to find out a dakka-predator is cheaper than a squad of hellblasters. Went for intercessors over scouts for useful units. All in all, this is probably an obvious statement, but a brigade of Space Marines doesn't use points all that efficiently.

No better Fast Attack than the Tarantula Sentry Gun with the Heavy Bolters.

I have a feeling that the Heavy Bolter Version is indeed the superior one.
but i've see many report say its the assault cannon one.
Is there any point per wounds mathhammer on this?

Generally speaking, 24" range on an unmoving turret isn't that good.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Generally speaking, 24" range on an unmoving turret isn't that good.

Bingo.

It would also be absurdly expensive. Basically, you pay 37 points for a BS4+ T5 TL Heavy Bolter. With that profile, you require some specific weapons to be the most efficient against killing it, and you can spread all three around wherever you want. Help keep an objective. Create a zone for the opponent not to Deep Strike.

Only 37 points. For an army like Marines, the Turrets and Scouts create invaluable tools.

Is there a current unit tierlist anywhere, like on some of the other tactics threads for other armies? Thinking of starting a two-chapter list, with celestial lions for ranged stuff using crimson fists rules and emperor's spears for fighting. And I was hoping to find something like what's at the start of the Ork thread, to get an idea of what would work best for that combo.

Honestly I hadn't bothered to look into the Specialist Detachment rules yet.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I hadn't bothered to look into the Specialist Detachment rules yet.

The crimson fists have the best one

stratigo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I hadn't bothered to look into the Specialist Detachment rules yet.

The crimson fists have the best one

Meh, maybe.

It's Primaris focused, and Primaris are still far too expensive for what they bring and have like zero real options. Not to mention the new tactics and strats from WD encourage them to go all MSU, which makes the units in the specialist detachment less potent with those strats. All in all it's a wash and I'd say it's pretty comparable to the Indomitus Crusaders one.

The Victrix one for Ultras is pretty potent. Makes some of those vanguard vets into actual threats.

Lemondish wrote:

stratigo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I hadn't bothered to look into the Specialist Detachment rules yet.

The crimson fists have the best one

Meh, maybe.

It's Primaris focused, and Primaris are still far too expensive for what they bring and have like zero real options. Not to mention the new tactics and strats from WD encourage them to go all MSU, which makes the units in the specialist detachment less potent with those strats. All in all it's a wash and I'd say it's pretty comparable to the Indomitus Crusaders one.

The Victrix one for Ultras is pretty potent. Makes some of those vanguard vets into actual threats.

There isn't a good space marine unit though really. Buffing hellblasters is better than buffing vanguards. The victrix guard is utterly unexciting. It is hard to make a worthwhile van vet squad.

Vanguard got tastier with the price cut at least. It's a lot of cheap S4 attacks.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Vanguard got tastier with the price cut at least. It's a lot of cheap S4 attacks.

Yeah such a shame their detachment is locked to ultramarines and not blood angels or something more choppy.

What's the sweet spot for normal intercessor squads?? I'm a crimson fist player so want a squad size large enough to take advantage of bolter drill and against all odds but don't want to get smashed for morale, imn thinking 7 would be a reasonable number ?

Rogerio134134 wrote:
What's the sweet spot for normal intercessor squads?? I'm a crimson fist player so want a squad size large enough to take advantage of bolter drill and against all odds but don't want to get smashed for morale, imn thinking 7 would be a reasonable number ?

For Crimson Fists, the two best units to take advantage of Bolter Drill are Assault Centurions and Aggressors. Intercessors, even at 10 dudes, don't have as many shots for the points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
What's the sweet spot for normal intercessor squads?? I'm a crimson fist player so want a squad size large enough to take advantage of bolter drill and against all odds but don't want to get smashed for morale, imn thinking 7 would be a reasonable number ?

For Crimson Fists, the two best units to take advantage of Bolter Drill are Assault Centurions and Aggressors. Intercessors, even at 10 dudes, don't have as many shots for the points.

Both are also much more likely to gain No Matter the Odds given how small their units can be.

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
What's the sweet spot for normal intercessor squads?? I'm a crimson fist player so want a squad size large enough to take advantage of bolter drill and against all odds but don't want to get smashed for morale, imn thinking 7 would be a reasonable number ?

For Crimson Fists, the two best units to take advantage of Bolter Drill are Assault Centurions and Aggressors. Intercessors, even at 10 dudes, don't have as many shots for the points.

Both are also much more likely to gain No Matter the Odds given how small their units can be.

I think it was implied by the OP they wanted to get the 5+ Bolter Drill based on singular mention of Crimson Fists, but it's good to actually type it down.

Another unit we hadn't talked about (or at least I did not see brought up) was Plasma Inceptors. Against certain targets you'd be able to Overcharge and not worry about any penalty at all

So i traded a tyranid army at a local swap meet for a fully painted space marine force. I am pretty happy with what i received, but am now struggling with what chapter i should run them as.

Paint scheme is grey, with a red palm print on the shoulders, and deep blue for contrasting color / on the guns. This seems like it could easily fit into many different chapters for successor chapter.

The army seems like it is built well as well. It has over 30 scouts, 20 vanguard vets with chainswords, 20 more sternguard vets, a good mix of devistator heavy weapon options (3 laz, 3 missile, 3 hb, 2 multimelta, 2 plasma cannons), and a nice mix of hqs. Also had a dreadnought, 2 laz Razorbacks, a rhino, a las pred, 3 drop pods, and a storm talon.

No primaris thankfully. My questions though begin with standard space marines, i haven't looked at the base codex in probably 8 months. I have a lot of experience with space wolves and ravenwing, but not much vanilla sm. So what chapters are really still able to be useful in a semi competitive fashion? Sounds like vanguard vets are pretty nice if used properly (4 attacks base with 12" move thanks to chainswords and jump packs? Bezerkers aren't the only ones in a choppy mood) and sternguard can do a damn good impression of rubrics thanks to their special bolt rifles. But what other tricks do we have access to that makes us more than just a pretty face?

Ravenwing seems really good with vanguard vets. Sternguard look like they would work better as imperial fists. Iron hands flat 6+++ is also pretty nice though.... but the new crimson fist stuff has me interested thanks to some sick shinanigans i can see going on (4d3 mortal wounds potentially from a single heavy bolter in a dev squad in 1 round of shooting is stuuuuupid sick).

Any advice would be welcomed.

Yeah, three squads of 7vanvets all with stormshields, searg and 1 other guy with powerfists backed up with shrike is pretty mean.

21 3++ models that wont fail morale and can dish out 45 str 4 attacks and 12 powerfists all with rerolls is pretty nasty.

Back it up with some sniper scouts and razorbacks/dreads and you have a solid army.

Predators are decent right? Finally got mine built and magnetized.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Predators are decent right? Finally got mine built and magnetized.

They have good firepower, however, they are quite squishy unfortunately.

That being said, I usually run 3 of them in the Autocannon/Lascannon configuration to pop killshot turn 1, with a reroll to hit and reroll to wound bubble handy.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Predators are decent right? Finally got mine built and magnetized.

Nope they pay too much for the privilege of a three plus in a system where toughness 7 armor splats pretty much immediately. Guard have to reach a critical mass to make russes work. And predators fail to get chapter tactics