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 godardc wrote:
Vindicators, scary ? It's probably the only unit I haven't seen played since 8th dropped, with land speeders. The very moment 8th was launched, vindicators were doomed. Even the stratagem is garbage: disgustingly resilient stops MW, hordes of gaunts, guards and orks just laugh at 6 (on average) MW, and only at 24"... Only SM fear that. Oh, how the mighty have fallen ! And only if you can, after having spent your CP, hit on 4+...
I should give them a try then I guess !

The stratagem is amazing. 3d3 mortal wounds in splash damage and you don't need to be eligible to shoot (so you can pop smoke) or have LOS to use it. It has a lot of value that isn't automatically apparent.

Plus on it's own vs a 5 man unit the vindi becomes d6 shots. Plus str 10 really hurts a lot of units. Being only 125 and being t8. The vindi is already superior to the pred. The stratagem is better too. Im really not trying to hype up ether option and they are both pretty bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
So, how does plasma and rerolls of 1's and bolter drill work with their CT ?

I have a plasma gun.
Le'ts say I roll a one and a 2.
I have +1 for shooting due to my CT.
So I can't have a 1 and I don't die ?

3 man bike squads. Very hot with CF.

Martel732 wrote:
I've seem them in action. They do well enough vs hordes before they die anyway.

I may give them a try one day haha


On another note, in order to catch my opponents (mainly DG, necrons and tyranids) by surprise, I just made this list:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [151 PL, 1,904pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Black Templars

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Shield Eternal, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Chaplain Grimaldus [6 PL, 90pts]

The Emperor's Champion [4 PL, 75pts]

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [10 PL, 76pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun
. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Chapter Ancient [4 PL, 76pts]: Power sword

Chapter Champion [4 PL, 69pts]: Boltgun, Relic blade

Company Veterans [8 PL, 80pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. . Boltgun/Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. . Boltgun/Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. . Boltgun/Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. . Boltgun/Chainsword
. Veteran Sergeant: Storm bolter
. . Boltgun/Chainsword

Terminator Assault Squad [24 PL, 228pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant
. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. 2x Terminator w/THSS: 2x Storm shield, 2x Thunder hammer
. 3x Terminator w/x2LC: 3x Lightning Claw (Pair)

Terminator Squad [24 PL, 219pts]: Teleport Homer
. Terminator Sergeant: Power sword, Storm bolter
. Terminator w/Heavy Weapon: Assault cannon, Power fist
. 4x Terminator w/PF: 4x Power fist, 4x Storm bolter

Vanguard Veteran Squad [16 PL, 231pts]: Jump Pack, Melta bombs
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, Power maul
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, Power maul
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, Power maul
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, Power maul
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Veteran Sergeant: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword, Thunder hammer

+ Fast Attack +

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 69pts]
. 2x Scout Biker: 2x Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun

Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 69pts]
. 2x Scout Biker: 2x Twin boltgun
. Scout Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [11 PL, 176pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 2x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

Thunderfire Cannon [6 PL, 92pts]
. Techmarine Gunner
. . Servo-harness: Flamer, Plasma cutter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [5 PL, 65pts]: Storm bolter

++ Total: [151 PL, 1,904pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Obviously I didn't separate the two detachment but there would be 2 detachment (one batallion and one vanguard). The idea was to avoid vehicles and to play an assault heavy army.
So all the characters and the veterans into the pod.
Everyone that can in deepstrike (or maybe no, I would see depending on the game: flexibility !), And either T2 or T3 I can make a big deepstrike with most of my units grouped together, or no, as I have many units they don't HAVE to stay together.
I choose Black Templars to increase my chances to get charges.
Good combo with the cheap veterans, the characters and why not heroic intervention.
I guess the Ancient would work better with the terminators.
I have enough points and CP to get a culexus to protect me from smites spam and others psy chenanigans on addition of the BT stratagem.
The big vv squad should be two 5 men squad, ignore the fact they are only one single big unit.
I could put the BT helm on the Ancient and give him a 9 range for his ability.
Obviously it's not a highly competitive army, but could it work ?

It's pretty fun that I have every single model to play this army btw

No it will not work. Vanguard veterans suck major grox bung. I play BT and Ive tried them all sorts of ways. If you want an assault element take the sword brethren detachment from vigilus, helbrecht, and 5 company vets with power fists and storm shields.

Chaplain Grimaldus isnt that great these days, his ability doesnt work with -1 to hit.

Why bother wih a chapter champion when you have an emperors champion?

I could go on.

Don't take Power Fists on the Sword Brethren, take Thunder Hammers. You're already splurging points on them, might as well make them as strong as possible.

 ultimentra wrote:
No it will not work. Vanguard veterans suck major grox bung. I play BT and Ive tried them all sorts of ways. If you want an assault element take the sword brethren detachment from vigilus, helbrecht, and 5 company vets with power fists and storm shields.

Chaplain Grimaldus isnt that great these days, his ability doesnt work with -1 to hit.

Why bother wih a chapter champion when you have an emperors champion?

I could go on.

If you want to take VV, take them in Ultramarine Victrix Guard detachment, they are really good when getting +1 to hit, and fight in the enemy's charge phase. The only concern is they get shot off the board, or those death explosion of the Knight they just smashed dead putting 6MW on them.

So bit of an update on my previous post regarding a Tau match.

I ran the same list as before, expect adding some Termies to make up the points. I know they're not the best choice, but I was hoping the Storm Bolter fire would help cut down a few Drones.

I was absolutely tabled.

We used ITC setups with 1st-floor-blocking LoS, but even with a very conservative setup I had no chance. His tactic each turn was simply:

1. Use Montka, advance everything into LoS*
2. Pop Markerlights
3. Pop Command and Control Node on the Broadsides.
4. Delete unit.

*Twice, using Shadowsun.

Lost the Hellblasters on turn 1, the Ancient's banner let them kill 3 Fire Warriors, nothing else. Next turn he reduced the Leviathan to 7 wounds, killed the Intercessors and a Tac Squad, turn 3 killed the Librarian, HB Devs and the other Tacs at which point I conceded. All in all I killed around 5 Shield Drones and 20 Fire Warriors.

No idea what the hell I could take to even stand a chance against this list, individually it's not too scary, but when you have advance/fire Broadsides rerolling all wounds, combined with 20+ Shield Drones it gets a bit on the ridiculous side.

How did the terminators behave ?

 godardc wrote:
How did the terminators behave ?

Used his Drones to restrict my DS, they dropped in, killed a few Fire Warriors thanks to LoS trickery on his part, all killed next turn by the Riptide. 3 were able to fire with the Ancient and killed 2 Drones.

 Valkyrie wrote:
So bit of an update on my previous post regarding a Tau match.

I ran the same list as before, expect adding some Termies to make up the points. I know they're not the best choice, but I was hoping the Storm Bolter fire would help cut down a few Drones.

I was absolutely tabled.

We used ITC setups with 1st-floor-blocking LoS, but even with a very conservative setup I had no chance. His tactic each turn was simply:

1. Use Montka, advance everything into LoS*
2. Pop Markerlights
3. Pop Command and Control Node on the Broadsides.
4. Delete unit.

*Twice, using Shadowsun.

Lost the Hellblasters on turn 1, the Ancient's banner let them kill 3 Fire Warriors, nothing else. Next turn he reduced the Leviathan to 7 wounds, killed the Intercessors and a Tac Squad, turn 3 killed the Librarian, HB Devs and the other Tacs at which point I conceded. All in all I killed around 5 Shield Drones and 20 Fire Warriors.

No idea what the hell I could take to even stand a chance against this list, individually it's not too scary, but when you have advance/fire Broadsides rerolling all wounds, combined with 20+ Shield Drones it gets a bit on the ridiculous side.

Play your army as Ravenguard? -1 to hit sounds like would ruinrights day. Most of their weapons carried by Broadsides will naturally hit on 4+ right? so make them hit on 5+ is the way to make them look less scary.

Mortars and wyverns to remove drones.

Dont use hellblasters. You know know why.

 Valkyrie wrote:
So bit of an update on my previous post regarding a Tau match.

I ran the same list as before, expect adding some Termies to make up the points. I know they're not the best choice, but I was hoping the Storm Bolter fire would help cut down a few Drones.

I was absolutely tabled.

We used ITC setups with 1st-floor-blocking LoS, but even with a very conservative setup I had no chance. His tactic each turn was simply:

1. Use Montka, advance everything into LoS*
2. Pop Markerlights
3. Pop Command and Control Node on the Broadsides.
4. Delete unit.

*Twice, using Shadowsun.

Lost the Hellblasters on turn 1, the Ancient's banner let them kill 3 Fire Warriors, nothing else. Next turn he reduced the Leviathan to 7 wounds, killed the Intercessors and a Tac Squad, turn 3 killed the Librarian, HB Devs and the other Tacs at which point I conceded. All in all I killed around 5 Shield Drones and 20 Fire Warriors.

No idea what the hell I could take to even stand a chance against this list, individually it's not too scary, but when you have advance/fire Broadsides rerolling all wounds, combined with 20+ Shield Drones it gets a bit on the ridiculous side.

Shadowsun doesn't let you use Montka twice. Her ability "Genius of Kauyon" lets her declare Kauyon even if Kauyon or Mont'ka has already been declared. The only way your opponent can declare Mont'ka twice is if he takes Commander Farsight and makes those units Farsight Enclaves.

Broadsides are really vulnerable to being tied up in melee. They are battlesuits without fly. If you tie them up in melee they can't fall back and shoot. Getting into melee with broadsides can be a pain but it can be done.

Also from the units you are listing that were killed it seems you brought lots of shorter range firepower. Broadsides are slow and only have 36" range. It is possible to just bring longer range guns and just sit out of range.

The broadside blob is good but does have weaknesses.

Have you tried the sicaran punisher ? Quite cheap, predator priced, and have an honest firepower: up to 27 heavy bolter shots, some rerolling 1 to wound.

Tau sept is on another level, and you'll be extremely hard-pressed to match them in the hands of an okay player with just SM. That's the truth of the matter. ... I honestly think their point pricing is a bit skewed.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
So bit of an update on my previous post regarding a Tau match.

I ran the same list as before, expect adding some Termies to make up the points. I know they're not the best choice, but I was hoping the Storm Bolter fire would help cut down a few Drones.

I was absolutely tabled.

We used ITC setups with 1st-floor-blocking LoS, but even with a very conservative setup I had no chance. His tactic each turn was simply:

1. Use Montka, advance everything into LoS*
2. Pop Markerlights
3. Pop Command and Control Node on the Broadsides.
4. Delete unit.

*Twice, using Shadowsun.

Lost the Hellblasters on turn 1, the Ancient's banner let them kill 3 Fire Warriors, nothing else. Next turn he reduced the Leviathan to 7 wounds, killed the Intercessors and a Tac Squad, turn 3 killed the Librarian, HB Devs and the other Tacs at which point I conceded. All in all I killed around 5 Shield Drones and 20 Fire Warriors.

No idea what the hell I could take to even stand a chance against this list, individually it's not too scary, but when you have advance/fire Broadsides rerolling all wounds, combined with 20+ Shield Drones it gets a bit on the ridiculous side.

Play your army as Ravenguard? -1 to hit sounds like would ruinrights day. Most of their weapons carried by Broadsides will naturally hit on 4+ right? so make them hit on 5+ is the way to make them look less scary.

That's exactly what I was running, the -1 really didn't do much once he had 5+ Markerlights on my guys.

Blood Hawk wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
So bit of an update on my previous post regarding a Tau match.

I ran the same list as before, expect adding some Termies to make up the points. I know they're not the best choice, but I was hoping the Storm Bolter fire would help cut down a few Drones.

I was absolutely tabled.

We used ITC setups with 1st-floor-blocking LoS, but even with a very conservative setup I had no chance. His tactic each turn was simply:

1. Use Montka, advance everything into LoS*
2. Pop Markerlights
3. Pop Command and Control Node on the Broadsides.
4. Delete unit.

*Twice, using Shadowsun.

Lost the Hellblasters on turn 1, the Ancient's banner let them kill 3 Fire Warriors, nothing else. Next turn he reduced the Leviathan to 7 wounds, killed the Intercessors and a Tac Squad, turn 3 killed the Librarian, HB Devs and the other Tacs at which point I conceded. All in all I killed around 5 Shield Drones and 20 Fire Warriors.

No idea what the hell I could take to even stand a chance against this list, individually it's not too scary, but when you have advance/fire Broadsides rerolling all wounds, combined with 20+ Shield Drones it gets a bit on the ridiculous side.

Shadowsun doesn't let you use Montka twice. Her ability "Genius of Kauyon" lets her declare Kauyon even if Kauyon or Mont'ka has already been declared. The only way your opponent can declare Mont'ka twice is if he takes Commander Farsight and makes those units Farsight Enclaves.

Broadsides are really vulnerable to being tied up in melee. They are battlesuits without fly. If you tie them up in melee they can't fall back and shoot. Getting into melee with broadsides can be a pain but it can be done.

Also from the units you are listing that were killed it seems you brought lots of shorter range firepower. Broadsides are slow and only have 36" range. It is possible to just bring longer range guns and just sit out of range.

The broadside blob is good but does have weaknesses.

My mistake on the Commander, he did use Shadowsun but his choice of Mont'ka or Kau'yon was legal.

Getting close was very difficult, mainly as he was bubblewrapping his Broadsides with Drones and Fire Warriors.

Kill all the markerlights first. Rule #1.

 Valkyrie wrote:

Blood Hawk wrote:Shadowsun doesn't let you use Montka twice. Her ability "Genius of Kauyon" lets her declare Kauyon even if Kauyon or Mont'ka has already been declared. The only way your opponent can declare Mont'ka twice is if he takes Commander Farsight and makes those units Farsight Enclaves.

Broadsides are really vulnerable to being tied up in melee. They are battlesuits without fly. If you tie them up in melee they can't fall back and shoot. Getting into melee with broadsides can be a pain but it can be done.

Also from the units you are listing that were killed it seems you brought lots of shorter range firepower. Broadsides are slow and only have 36" range. It is possible to just bring longer range guns and just sit out of range.

The broadside blob is good but does have weaknesses.

My mistake on the Commander, he did use Shadowsun but his choice of Mont'ka or Kau'yon was legal.

Getting close was very difficult, mainly as he was bubblewrapping his Broadsides with Drones and Fire Warriors.

I am confused. Did he declare mont'ka twice? All Tau players can use Master of War once per game to declare Kauyon or Mont'ka. Shadowsun can use Kauyon once per game as well. So if he is playing Tau sept he can't Mont'ka twice.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

Blood Hawk wrote:Shadowsun doesn't let you use Montka twice. Her ability "Genius of Kauyon" lets her declare Kauyon even if Kauyon or Mont'ka has already been declared. The only way your opponent can declare Mont'ka twice is if he takes Commander Farsight and makes those units Farsight Enclaves.

Broadsides are really vulnerable to being tied up in melee. They are battlesuits without fly. If you tie them up in melee they can't fall back and shoot. Getting into melee with broadsides can be a pain but it can be done.

Also from the units you are listing that were killed it seems you brought lots of shorter range firepower. Broadsides are slow and only have 36" range. It is possible to just bring longer range guns and just sit out of range.

The broadside blob is good but does have weaknesses.

My mistake on the Commander, he did use Shadowsun but his choice of Mont'ka or Kau'yon was legal.

Getting close was very difficult, mainly as he was bubblewrapping his Broadsides with Drones and Fire Warriors.

I am confused. Did he declare mont'ka twice? All Tau players can use Master of War once per game to declare Kauyon or Mont'ka. Shadowsun can use Kauyon once per game as well. So if he is playing Tau sept he can't Mont'ka twice.

Apologies for the confusion, he did the following actions in this order:

1. Use Mont'ka to advance with everything (clustered around Shadowsun) to get in LoS.
2. Used Kauyon with Shadowsun next turn for the reroll bonus.

Because of the Mont'ka move he had pretty much locked down most of the centre of the board. Whichever way I approached him I'd have to deal with at least 2 turns of Broadside/Riptide fire. While I easily took out his Pathfinders he still had Markerlights with 3x Sac'ea Firesights, 1x Fireblade and Darkstrider. Couldn't shoot them thanks to Character Targeting, and Networked Markerlight/Orbital Marketlight Uplink ensured a lot of my units were lit up for him

3 captains, 1 LT (Upgrade 1 captain to CM)

4x5 scouts
2x5 intercessors

4x Repulsor/Executioners

Or

Guilliman
2 captains

3x5 scouts

4x Repulsor/Executioners

Are you suggesting 4 repulsers to fight tau? Thats a horrible idea.

First a lot of places do the rule of 3, so it may not even be an option. Even if it is tau have some of the best anti tank units with massive range and little cost (hello mr broadside). A standard tau list should be able to kill 2 of those repulsers before they are even in range if the tau player knows what they are doing.

Yeah, dont try that... unless you actually already own those models then why not, its just a game. But dont spend money on those kinds of things thinking your going to be able to beat tau with them.

Azuza001 wrote:
Are you suggesting 4 repulsers to fight tau? Thats a horrible idea.

First a lot of places do the rule of 3, so it may not even be an option. Even if it is tau have some of the best anti tank units with massive range and little cost (hello mr broadside). A standard tau list should be able to kill 2 of those repulsers before they are even in range if the tau player knows what they are doing.

Yeah, dont try that... unless you actually already own those models then why not, its just a game. But dont spend money on those kinds of things thinking your going to be able to beat tau with them.

Repulsors get around the rule of 3 because they're Dedicated Transports.

And the sheer volume of firepower they kick out would work well.

It may just be my local meta, but most of the Tau players I've played seem to have a bit of trouble laying down enough fire fast enough against multiple armoured threats.

Azuza001 wrote:
Are you suggesting 4 repulsers to fight tau? Thats a horrible idea.

First a lot of places do the rule of 3, so it may not even be an option. Even if it is tau have some of the best anti tank units with massive range and little cost (hello mr broadside). A standard tau list should be able to kill 2 of those repulsers before they are even in range if the tau player knows what they are doing.

Yeah, dont try that... unless you actually already own those models then why not, its just a game. But dont spend money on those kinds of things thinking your going to be able to beat tau with them.

The Gman rupulsor list is gonna be based entirely on who gets first turn.

So, like, the worst sort of 40k

stratigo wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Are you suggesting 4 repulsers to fight tau? Thats a horrible idea.

First a lot of places do the rule of 3, so it may not even be an option. Even if it is tau have some of the best anti tank units with massive range and little cost (hello mr broadside). A standard tau list should be able to kill 2 of those repulsers before they are even in range if the tau player knows what they are doing.

Yeah, dont try that... unless you actually already own those models then why not, its just a game. But dont spend money on those kinds of things thinking your going to be able to beat tau with them.

The Gman rupulsor list is gonna be based entirely on who gets first turn.

So, like, the worst sort of 40k

Going second didn't slow down the Throne of War GT winner.

Ah, i thought they were heavy support like land raiders, thats my mistake. But yeah, set up the table, roll for deployment, put your stuff on the table, roll for first turn and if you dont get it gg? Thats horrible 40k playing.

Hey all, looking for feedback on my list and what i should add/get rid of. I mostly play against my friend's admech, tyranids, or genestealer cults.

The only real caveat is that it's my 30k army so I want to avoid anything that isn't cross compatible with Age of Darkness, except for reasonable stuff like scouts or scout bikes.

1,999 points, 9 CP
Chapter Tactic: Salamanders

Battalion Detachment

• HQ
Captain – 74 - Chapter Master, Storm of Fire warlord trait
Lieutenant – 60

• Troops
Tactical Squad – 130
Tactical Squad – 130
Tactical Squad – 130

• Elites:
Venerable Dreadnought – Missile Launcher, Twin Lascannons – 120
Relic Contemptor Dreadnought – 2x Twin Autocannons – 170

• Heavy Support
Predator – Autocannon, Lascannons, Storm Bolter – 180
Predator – Autocannon, Lascannons, Storm Bolter – 180
Devastator Squad – Missile Launchers, Armorium Cherub – 150

Spearhead Detachment

• HQ
Lieutenant – 60

• Heavy Support
Rapier – Quad Mortar – 85
Rapier – Quad Mortar – 85
Rapier – Quad Mortar – 85
Devastator Squad – Missile Launchers, Armorium Cherub – 150

 Xenomancers wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Are three pedators with killshot valuable ? Almost 600 pts, quite squishy and an obvious target for the opponent, isn't it ?

No - predators are one of the worst choices we have. Even without strats the Vinidcator is better and is at least scary in certain situations. Plus they are a lot cheaper. Tripple vindy really helps the rest of your list. Because not killing one of those vindis is basically not an option for your opponent. Preds? Who cares...+1 to wound? I'm already rerolling all my wounds....Plus they are a lot easier to kill.

Predators are significantly better than vindis.

But, again, you need three, plus other tanks. Predators work when your army is all armor and few infantry.

So I've been using my crimson fists as Deathwatch but fancy actually using them as space marines for once. Here's a quick run down of my list.

Battalion - crimson fists

Pedro Kantor

Primaris lt with auto bolter

5 infiltrators
5 intercessors
5 intercessors
5 intercessors

3 plasma inceptors

5 hellblasters
5 hellblasters

Repulsor with Gatling cannons and lascannon
Repulsor with Gatling cannons and lascannon

Spearhead detachment

Smash captain with thunder hammer

Redemptor with Gatling cannons
Primaris ancient with banner of emperor ascendant
3 aggressors

----

Very similar list to what I currently use with my Deathwatch and the plan I normally use is putn everything together in a big blob and match it forward and then deepstrike a hard hitting unit in behind the enemy.

So in this force I'll be placing the aggressors and hellblasters inside the repulsors to keep them safe at the start of the game and slowly move everything forward within Kantor and the banners aura too get all re roll hits and return fire on death.

Tempted to make them a liberator strike force detachment as well to gain the decent stratagems from that too.

 grouchoben wrote:
Tau sept is on another level, and you'll be extremely hard-pressed to match them in the hands of an okay player with just SM. That's the truth of the matter. ... I honestly think their point pricing is a bit skewed.

Uhhh - yeah. Don't even bother playing against tau with space marines. It is a joke of a game.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Tau sept is on another level, and you'll be extremely hard-pressed to match them in the hands of an okay player with just SM. That's the truth of the matter. ... I honestly think their point pricing is a bit skewed.

Uhhh - yeah. Don't even bother playing against tau with space marines. It is a joke of a game.

A gman gunline can kill the big suits if you get first turn before they amp into 3 plus invuls. But its first turn warhammer.

They can still soak off on the drones, though. Also, they can dial up 1+ armor on them turn 1 if they are concerned.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
So I've been using my crimson fists as Deathwatch but fancy actually using them as space marines for once. Here's a quick run down of my list.

Battalion - crimson fists

Pedro Kantor

Primaris lt with auto bolter

5 infiltrators
5 intercessors
5 intercessors
5 intercessors

3 plasma inceptors

5 hellblasters
5 hellblasters

Repulsor with Gatling cannons and lascannon
Repulsor with Gatling cannons and lascannon

Spearhead detachment

Smash captain with thunder hammer

Redemptor with Gatling cannons
Primaris ancient with banner of emperor ascendant
3 aggressors

----

Very similar list to what I currently use with my Deathwatch and the plan I normally use is putn everything together in a big blob and match it forward and then deepstrike a hard hitting unit in behind the enemy.

So in this force I'll be placing the aggressors and hellblasters inside the repulsors to keep them safe at the start of the game and slowly move everything forward within Kantor and the banners aura too get all re roll hits and return fire on death.

Tempted to make them a liberator strike force detachment as well to gain the decent stratagems from that too.

Few points and questions - it's totally pedantic, but that's a Vanguard Detachment not a Spearhead

Definitely worth it to make those Hellblasters a full 10 man instead of 2 MSU squads if you go with the Liberator detachment. Can always combat squad if you need to. The bigger squad makes those nice specialist detachment strats better.

A smash captain with a thunder hammer isn't the best choice for Crimson Fists because you can use the Fist of Vengeance relic to hit as hard as a Thunder Hammer, but without the penalty to hit, and it's cheaper. Another fun variant I've seen is more of a blender style Warlord of a Captain on a bike with a Thunder Hammer, Chainsword swapped to teeth of terra, and the the one warlord trait that gives you more attacks if you're surrounded. Throws out a ton of attacks and is super fun.

I'm not entirely sure those Infiltrators will do much without support. They're expensive, but committing to them in numbers gives you some really powerful tricks and tools against a variety of different armies - they also like having support from their HQs. I'm just not sure a single unit of them will achieve much. Give it a shot though and let us know!