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 Xenomancers wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Food for thought:

Next to guilliman, a 6 man squad of ultramarine aggressors with tactical doctrine and the strat that gives them an extra -1 AP does 17 wounds on average to a LAND RAIDER (pretty much the worst target they could choose to shoot at)

I know they might struggle to survive to turn 2, but if those impulsors can transport gravis then some would make it. Imagine playing a CC horde list against an army that puts out 120+ shots with guilliman rerolls for a SINGLE UNIT with a 24" threat range (and more if impulsors can be used)

Lol ninjad by someone with exactly the same thoughts haha

Triple impulsor with 9 agressors can move into position with a 4++ save ion front of Gman can then you can get out and lay down some serious heat. If doctrines can be changed on demand somehow it will be the way to run it. If you can deep strike 2 units of 6 that will work even better. That will destroy just about any 2 threats you pout in front of it. The rest of your army should probably focus on anti tank. Hard to say what to use. Maybe the new elimiantors with las.

It is also interesting. On turn 2 you can get 36 inch threat range sterngaurd jumping out of rhinos with ap-3 bolters! That is only 140 points lol.

course you're looking at 900 points before the transports, and you'd need to invest in a HQ of some sort as well.

Might be an idea to go with a spear head and grab a libby. especially if UMs turn out to have some juicy spells

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's the capacity of the new Transport? I'm super weary of minimum Aggressors and always go 4 to start.

It can only hold 3 aggressors.

Do we know it can carry Gravis?

Actually not sure. I would assume it does. If it can't it's gonna have to be hell blasters.

Be it that the pilot is a Phobos Marine, I am inclined to think it won't carry Gravis. Intercessors and Hellblasters, sure. I would like it to carry Aggressors (I run two squads, I plan on getting two Impulsors), but I could definitely see No Gravis Allowed.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's the capacity of the new Transport? I'm super weary of minimum Aggressors and always go 4 to start.

It can only hold 3 aggressors.

Do we know it can carry Gravis?

Actually not sure. I would assume it does. If it can't it's gonna have to be hell blasters.

Be it that the pilot is a Phobos Marine, I am inclined to think it won't carry Gravis. Intercessors and Hellblasters, sure. I would like it to carry Aggressors (I run two squads, I plan on getting two Impulsors), but I could definitely see No Gravis Allowed.

given they advertised it as a transport, and given we see in one of the UM previews a hellblaster parked on the back I think it'll carry everything

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's the capacity of the new Transport? I'm super weary of minimum Aggressors and always go 4 to start.

It can only hold 3 aggressors.

Do we know it can carry Gravis?

Actually not sure. I would assume it does. If it can't it's gonna have to be hell blasters.

Be it that the pilot is a Phobos Marine, I am inclined to think it won't carry Gravis. Intercessors and Hellblasters, sure. I would like it to carry Aggressors (I run two squads, I plan on getting two Impulsors), but I could definitely see No Gravis Allowed.

given they advertised it as a transport, and given we see in one of the UM previews a hellblaster parked on the back I think it'll carry everything

I'll point out that rhinos can't carry terminators and landraiders can.
Terminators count as 2 models gravis count as 2 models
Rulpulsor is the new landraider, if this is the new rhino I easily see and would actually see it as doubly broken to allow this to carry gravis armour. As it's points will have to be jacked to reflect the bonus agressors get from it and it won't be worth taking for any other unit.

Eh, its a wait and see. The MSU of 3 matching the six is a point in favor of Gravis capacity.

Sterling191 wrote:
Eh, its a wait and see. The MSU of 3 matching the six is a point in favor of Gravis capacity.

Yet strangely the preview makes a specific mention of 5 dudes plus a charictor, specifically hellblasters and a captain for reroll 1's but makes 0 mention of gravis.

If it dies it does I just dont see it being close to rhino points if it allows double shooting agressors to be to hide in a 4++ transport turn 1 and double shoot turn disembarking on the enemies deployment zone.

Ice_can wrote:


If it dies it does I just dont see it being close to rhino points if it allows double shooting agressors to be to hide in a 4++ transport turn 1 and double shoot turn disembarking on the enemies deployment zone.

Most folk I've seen are making the logical parallels between it and a kitted out Razorback. It was never going to be a Rhino.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Food for thought:

Next to guilliman, a 6 man squad of ultramarine aggressors with tactical doctrine and the strat that gives them an extra -1 AP does 17 wounds on average to a LAND RAIDER (pretty much the worst target they could choose to shoot at)

I know they might struggle to survive to turn 2, but if those impulsors can transport gravis then some would make it. Imagine playing a CC horde list against an army that puts out 120+ shots with guilliman rerolls for a SINGLE UNIT with a 24" threat range (and more if impulsors can be used)

Lol ninjad by someone with exactly the same thoughts haha

Triple impulsor with 9 agressors can move into position with a 4++ save ion front of Gman can then you can get out and lay down some serious heat. If doctrines can be changed on demand somehow it will be the way to run it. If you can deep strike 2 units of 6 that will work even better. That will destroy just about any 2 threats you pout in front of it. The rest of your army should probably focus on anti tank. Hard to say what to use. Maybe the new elimiantors with las.

It is also interesting. On turn 2 you can get 36 inch threat range sterngaurd jumping out of rhinos with ap-3 bolters! That is only 140 points lol.

course you're looking at 900 points before the transports, and you'd need to invest in a HQ of some sort as well.

Might be an idea to go with a spear head and grab a libby. especially if UMs turn out to have some juicy spells

It's 733 before the transports. The impuslors are going to be like 105ish so you still have 950 to fill out the list. Take Tiggy a phobos libby 3 units of elims with las a primaris ancient and max out on intercessors.

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:


If it dies it does I just dont see it being close to rhino points if it allows double shooting agressors to be to hide in a 4++ transport turn 1 and double shoot turn disembarking on the enemies deployment zone.

Most folk I've seen are making the logical parallels between it and a kitted out Razorback. It was never going to be a Rhino.

Have terminators ever been allowed in a razorbacks?
Maybe in 2nd but I can't remember.

I'm just worried that instead of being a points cost that makes it usable to intercessors which it can only carry 6 off? etc if it can transport gravis it's going to pay premium points for the buff it gives them while leaving non beer gut primaris better off walking.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Be it that the pilot is a Phobos Marine, I am inclined to think it won't carry Gravis. Intercessors and Hellblasters, sure. I would like it to carry Aggressors (I run two squads, I plan on getting two Impulsors), but I could definitely see No Gravis Allowed.

I'm not thinking that the armor the pilot is in will have any bearing on what it can transport. Phobos Armor, after all, is stripped down but still protective gear. Fluffwise it'd be the perfect armor for vehicle crews.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Be it that the pilot is a Phobos Marine, I am inclined to think it won't carry Gravis. Intercessors and Hellblasters, sure. I would like it to carry Aggressors (I run two squads, I plan on getting two Impulsors), but I could definitely see No Gravis Allowed.

I'm not thinking that the armor the pilot is in will have any bearing on what it can transport. Phobos Armor, after all, is stripped down but still protective gear. Fluffwise it'd be the perfect armor for vehicle crews.

I feel like it's almost assured that you would be able to transport Gravis armour, but it will count as 2 models. That will mean you can transport 3 Aggressors, but never with any Characters and the Gravis Capt won't ever be able to ride in one with 5 Intercessors/Hellblasters

For this reason alone, it really should have been capacity 7, but it's still good.

-

I guess we can't be sure G-mans aura hasn't changed either to be fair. He'd be a lot easier to balance if he could only give out full re-roll wounds to one unit per turn. He could probably come down in points if they nerf his reroll wound aura.

If this all works out though I'm probably picking up 3 impulsors for my aggressors!

Impulsors should be allowed to carry Gravis. Who would design an all new transport at the same time as your all new armor suit and not make the new suit transportable?
But then again Marine techmarines have made plenty of silly tank design decisions in the past in order to sell models or for perceived balance, so I could easily see gravis be the new terminator armor for transport annoyances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If gravis can be carried at a reasonable price, I’m def on the aggressor bandwagon. I already own 15 aggressors and I’ve been wanting to go back to a mech marine style since early 8th.

Based on the White Scars preview I'm tempted to run my Minotaurs as a White Scars successor. Get a good amount of Bikes and unleash the carnage.

Just speculation here but I think the following is the doctrines

We know Ultramarines are tactical
We know Whitescars are Assualt

Iron hands are rumoured to be most OP chapter and devistator doctrine is apparently the best

So Iron hands are probably a Devistator doctrine

Imperial fists are apparently 3rd ish in power, so they are presumably devistator as their bolter rules combined on top of a tactical doctrine would surely have put them above Ultramarines.

Of the remaining salamander and raven guard
Salamander would be tactical and raven guard will be assualt.

Assualt doctrine seems to be the weakest and no-ones been calling out white scars or ravenguard as chapters to watch.

I could have the imperial fists and salamanders the wrong way around but this is just guessing based on the little info released so far.

Salamanders are super lacking for their Chapter Tactic so we'll see what they get in their preview.

Where do you get your rumors from ? I didn't hear anything like this before.

Ice_can wrote:
Just speculation here but I think the following is the doctrines

We know Ultramarines are tactical
We know Whitescars are Assualt

Iron hands are rumoured to be most OP chapter and devistator doctrine is apparently the best

So Iron hands are probably a Devistator doctrine

Imperial fists are apparently 3rd ish in power, so they are presumably devistator as their bolter rules combined on top of a tactical doctrine would surely have put them above Ultramarines.

Of the remaining salamander and raven guard
Salamander would be tactical and raven guard will be assualt.

Assualt doctrine seems to be the weakest and no-ones been calling out white scars or ravenguard as chapters to watch.

I could have the imperial fists and salamanders the wrong way around but this is just guessing based on the little info released so far.

My guesses:

IH are Devastator, UM, IF, CF, Salamanders are Tactical, RG, BT, WS are Assault.

Salamanders are my bet if there's a second Devastator, since Multi Meltas are Heavy even if normal meltas are assault.

I wonder if Imperial Fists will be Devastator Doctrine. Siege Masters used to buff Devastators and Centurion Devastators in 7e.

G-Man's aura is down to RR1s to-wound.

But upgraded to Cawl-grade rerolls on hits.

Frankly, Salamanders and Raven Guard both could fluffwise be said to any of the three.
I really hope they don't do the Assault Doctrine with Raven Guard. That was the garbage fluff, where apparently "ambush" meant "WE FLY IN WITH JUMP PACKS AND CUT YOU!".

If we're lucky, Raven Guard are going to get a bonus to their Chapter Trait while Tactical or Assault are active.

All the chapters might not even get permanent things like Scions of Guilliman, to balance out the more powerful traits.

White Scars and UM are the weaker of the traits, after all.

Ultramarine tactic is so effing bad. Now no more gman arua of goodness to justify it. Having a really powerful doctrine buff is the only thing they got going for them. If all the chapters get one. Ultras are dust. Unless they have a really OP stratagem. It is worth noting that with reroll all hits not just failed hits - the -1 to fall back hurts a lot less.

The rerolls all hits is better than rerolling 2s to wound imo, as it lets you keep Devastator Doctrine on longer so you can move and fire and still reroll the other misses.

It hurts a bit, but at 70pts off that's a pretty good deal.

I'm definitely not sticking with RG if their tactic is melee assault. I like the idea of say Shrike and some hand picked guys swooping in, but there's already BA, I don't need another entire chapter buff about jump pack assault marines to try to deep strike in. Ambushing doesn't have to mean in hand to hand. Oh, plus, if they got some crazy way to charge in post deep strike, then everyone will just compare it vs the BT charge bonus and take the better of those 2. Or even worse, if they become the air power chapter. I just refuse to use flyers at this scale.

I got the impression IF were the second heavy since everyone is saying they're one of the prerelease favorites. But I could definitely see Salamanders with the heavy bonus if they got something around being more mobile with multi-meltas to get in range easier or always got the melta damage reroll regardless of range.

So with tactics up, ultramarine bolters are double tapping all time every time right?

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
So with tactics up, ultramarine bolters are double tapping all time every time right?

from turn 2 on essentially yes.

BrianDavion wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
So with tactics up, ultramarine bolters are double tapping all time every time right?

from turn 2 on essentially yes.

For aggressors and executioners too, since vehicles get tactics according to the preview for ultramarines.

 Crazyterran wrote:
All the chapters might not even get permanent things like Scions of Guilliman, to balance out the more powerful traits.

White Scars and UM are the weaker of the traits, after all.

White Scars getting easy T1 charges and Ultramarines not getting tied down says otherwise.

Weakest ones are Crimson Fists and Salamanders EASILY.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
All the chapters might not even get permanent things like Scions of Guilliman, to balance out the more powerful traits.

White Scars and UM are the weaker of the traits, after all.

White Scars getting easy T1 charges and Ultramarines not getting tied down says otherwise.

Weakest ones are Crimson Fists and Salamanders EASILY.

Crimson Fists are real good against hordes, and Salamanders are good all-rounders. Honestly, the weakest tactics are probably Imperial Fists and Raven Guard and even those are pretty decent.