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 GreatGranpapy wrote:
So with tactics up, ultramarine bolters are double tapping all time every time right?

Need to see the book when I get it. But based on the current information, when combined with Chapter Tactic, Scions of Guilliman, Combat Doctrine, and Stratagem Tactical Expertise. Ultramarine has the highest firepower output ability now among all Space Marine armies I believe.

Oh damn, my predator will love being able to move without penalty

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Oh damn, my predator will love being able to move without penalty

As will executioners and aggressors being able to fire twice even if they move (their full distance, for executioners' main guns).

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
So with tactics up, ultramarine bolters are double tapping all time every time right?

Need to see the book when I get it. But based on the current information, when combined with Chapter Tactic, Scions of Guilliman, Combat Doctrine, and Stratagem Tactical Expertise. Ultramarine has the highest firepower output ability now among all Space Marine armies I believe.

That's an always rapid firing bolter with -1 ap, -2 on a six, able to get out of assault and fire again without penalty, did I forget something ?

Ok so winter's codex review is up, a little light on details.
But looks good so far.

Some of the mk1 codex wiffs as still present, but some nice new options and strategums have been added included a 1CP skip to next doctrine strategum.
Good news for tac doctrine chapters and lesser extent to assault.
Grav cannon finally droped to 20 points.
Tacs at 12 I can see this is going to take a while to shakeout.

Repulsors +30 points. Ouch*

*For a supposwdly primaris basis codex that was to make OG marines unplayable I'm not seeing it.
Looks like GW is just going to stay in the keeping both lines going.

whose winter? got a link?

edit: found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E25y0e9mldw

Someone with the book has said that Impulsor CANNOT carry Gravis or Jump Pack.

Ice_can wrote:
Ok so winter's codex review is up, a little light on details.
But looks good so far.

Some of the mk1 codex wiffs as still present, but some nice new options and strategums have been added included a 1CP skip to next doctrine strategum.
Good news for tac doctrine chapters and lesser extent to assault.
Grav cannon finally droped to 20 points.
Tacs at 12 I can see this is going to take a while to shakeout.

Repulsors +30 points. Ouch*

*For a supposwdly primaris basis codex that was to make OG marines unplayable I'm not seeing it.
Looks like GW is just going to stay in the keeping both lines going.

That Strat is one I predicted and one that's gonna be used for multiple detachments for sure. White Scars or Black Templars (heck, maybe even Iron Hands or Raven Guard) having their detachment get the better melee component whilst TFCs do their thing against the screening horses could be fun.

I know that, at minimum, my Lias Sternguard bomb got a bit cheaper and the added Strat to give an additional Warlord trait to a character is amazing for the Ancient, depending on how the Traits are now of course. I'd probably do Storm of Fire on him there.

Storm of fire bonuses and doctrines don't stack up.

Tactical Marines are 12pts now.

Minor thing, but you can get ancients in Terminator Armour now.

Chaplain litanies look pretty good - adding one to wound or hit rolls when shooting are two of the possible powers, which isc crazy.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Someone with the book has said that Impulsor CANNOT carry Gravis or Jump Pack.

Oh well. Not unexpected at all with those abilities to move and shoot as if stationary. But it still hurts me in the fluff. Who keeps designing APCs that their troops can't fit in?

GW. Fat troops go in the fat carriers

bort wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Someone with the book has said that Impulsor CANNOT carry Gravis or Jump Pack.

Oh well. Not unexpected at all with those abilities to move and shoot as if stationary. But it still hurts me in the fluff. Who keeps designing APCs that their troops can't fit in?

The head popping out of it is a Marine from the Vanguard guys. Supposedly it's their transport. We'll see in the fluff or if they have alternative heads.

Hmm, what are you guys talking about fixed doctrines on different chapters? Don't they all get them. T1 all start with -1 ap on heavy weapons.. and from T2 you can swap to tactical doctrine to give rapid fire and assault weps -1 ap.. what I didn't pick up yet is that can you go to assault doctrine on T1 if you like it to.

Xirax wrote:
Hmm, what are you guys talking about fixed doctrines on different chapters? Don't they all get them. T1 all start with -1 ap on heavy weapons.. and from T2 you can swap to tactical doctrine to give rapid fire and assault weps -1 ap.. what I didn't pick up yet is that can you go to assault doctrine on T1 if you like it to.

Look at the previews for ultramarine and whitescars they get additional bonuses when a certain doctrine is active.

Ice_can wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Hmm, what are you guys talking about fixed doctrines on different chapters? Don't they all get them. T1 all start with -1 ap on heavy weapons.. and from T2 you can swap to tactical doctrine to give rapid fire and assault weps -1 ap.. what I didn't pick up yet is that can you go to assault doctrine on T1 if you like it to.

Look at the previews for ultramarine and whitescars they get additional bonuses when a certain doctrine is active.

There's also a Strat to change it ASAP so your Black Templars, White Scars, and Shrike lists can get to melee and be better.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Hmm, what are you guys talking about fixed doctrines on different chapters? Don't they all get them. T1 all start with -1 ap on heavy weapons.. and from T2 you can swap to tactical doctrine to give rapid fire and assault weps -1 ap.. what I didn't pick up yet is that can you go to assault doctrine on T1 if you like it to.

Look at the previews for ultramarine and whitescars they get additional bonuses when a certain doctrine is active.

There's also a Strat to change it ASAP so your Black Templars, White Scars, and Shrike lists can get to melee and be better.

Does anyone have a screenshot of it, as that's not what I've picked up from the descriptions, some say choose, some say advance, some also said you could choose one you haven't used yet.

Ice_can wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Hmm, what are you guys talking about fixed doctrines on different chapters? Don't they all get them. T1 all start with -1 ap on heavy weapons.. and from T2 you can swap to tactical doctrine to give rapid fire and assault weps -1 ap.. what I didn't pick up yet is that can you go to assault doctrine on T1 if you like it to.

Look at the previews for ultramarine and whitescars they get additional bonuses when a certain doctrine is active.

There's also a Strat to change it ASAP so your Black Templars, White Scars, and Shrike lists can get to melee and be better.

Does anyone have a screenshot of it, as that's not what I've picked up from the descriptions, some say choose, some say advance, some also said you could choose one you haven't used yet.

The video review I saw said there was a 1CP strat to change it but I wasn't paying so much attention as I should've been.

It should be
1 strategem to change it back one step.

Then UM have
1 stratagem to have a unit work as if they have a different doctrine for a turn or phase don't remember
1 stratagem to go from assault back to devastato doctrine.

CapRichard wrote:
It should be
1 strategem to change it back one step.

Then UM have
1 stratagem to have a unit work as if they have a different doctrine for a turn or phase don't remember
1 stratagem to go from assault back to devastato doctrine.

Oh boy that is not good as that means devistator doctrine chapters have a massive advantage.
But untill I can read the actual wording I'm holding back on judgement.

Oof, thunder hammers are now 40pts. So much for big units of those using that new +1 attack.

No, Thunder Hammers are 40 points for Characters, not for units.

Ah, nice. Did they go up similarly for units too or just increase for chars?

16 pts i think per model if not a chr. I could be wrong though

Thoughts on the amazing changes to drop pods? I heard they work t1 now.... between that and them getting past the 12" no go bubble new primaris give (the drop pod has to come in 12" out but the guys inside then get out which is not covered by the power) maybe they have a purpose for a player looking for serious t1 aggressive behavior?

You still gotta consider what to put inside. With the new Grav Strat you can abuse a squad of Devs with four Grav Cannons.

The "dreadnought takes half damage for the rest of phase" start is going to make Leviathans the most hated things ever. I already have enough trouble killing those things at tournaments, and now they get +1ap on turn one, and this 1cp strat to make them harder to kill than a knight.

One thing to consider with all the changes and the useful strats is that they are cutting 5+ CP off most marine armies. No more loyal 32 5cp, no more AM refund trait/relic (unless you give up the doctrines), and no more Guilliman. Getting a double battalion or brigade in marines was always rough, even moreso if encouraged to take primaris instead of scouts. Starting with only like 9cp looks a lot worse when there's useful things to spend it on.

Well, for the Leviathan and FW units, hopefully FW updates their datasheets to reflect them having Angels of Death rather quickly, otherwise they won't be able to be used until FW does.

EDIT: As a UM player, one of our best relics seems to be that Seal of Oath - being able to pick a target to reroll hits and wounds against will be pretty baller to destroying something scary like a token Castellan or big model.

Heck, just putting it on a LT or something and him sitting with the big guns to shoot that one thing that has to die is as good as parking an old Guilliman on top of those guns, for 60pts minimum!

And Master of Strategy seems to be our best WL Trait, letting one unit within 6" of the warlord act as though the tactical doctrine is active lets you have a little more freedom to move even on turn one.

bort wrote:
One thing to consider with all the changes and the useful strats is that they are cutting 5+ CP off most marine armies. No more loyal 32 5cp, no more AM refund trait/relic (unless you give up the doctrines), and no more Guilliman. Getting a double battalion or brigade in marines was always rough, even moreso if encouraged to take primaris instead of scouts. Starting with only like 9cp looks a lot worse when there's useful things to spend it on.

agreed. marines are not going to want to soup. If the new SM codex is the future of the game, then soups going to swiftly become less popular, I suspect it'll be present for some armies still but a lot of the complete armies that where always intended to be stand alone?

The anti soup measures are definitely a welcome sign. Now we just need the oft predicted rarely realised "all the books will be like this now" to happen.