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Mandragola wrote:
The soldier’s blade replaces a combat knife - which is what reivers carry. I think the reiver version might be the guy who has one, and maybe the Phobos captain, rather than the Phobos lieutenant - not sure. In any case it’s Smurf-only.

Yeah, the lieutenant with chutes cannot have it, as he has even more useless paired knives.

Ultramarines are funny now. They can redeploy like eldar with a strat, overwatch like tau with the greater good strat, fall back then shoot then charge like white scars with a strat, yeah.... they are definitely a toolbox army now lol.

Mandragola wrote:

The most improved unit might actually be assault centurions. They’ve had an enormous price drop while gaining a wound, an attack and angels of death. Their storm raven transport now gets CTs and even more dakka from the hurricane bolters. Even three of them can do 13 S10 attacks hitting on 3s and doing 3 damage. Plus of course they’ve got pretty absurd amounts of dakka with the hurricane bolters and flamers. That unit costs 156 points.

Points wise, sure they look usable now. They still move 4" though. If you miss out on that first charge roll, you'll never get them into combat.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
You may be right...I just want to use my infiltrators! :(

seems hard to justify still.
are they still 22 points each in the new codex? Cost 5 more points than intercessors, and have a weaker gun. They're so ineffective that your opponent won't need to deep strike.

Still 22 points. It's a bit crazy. The Incursors are only 19 points, and seem to be better every way except lacking the anti DS bubble. I really like the look of these units so I wish they were good.

tksolway wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

The most improved unit might actually be assault centurions. They’ve had an enormous price drop while gaining a wound, an attack and angels of death. Their storm raven transport now gets CTs and even more dakka from the hurricane bolters. Even three of them can do 13 S10 attacks hitting on 3s and doing 3 damage. Plus of course they’ve got pretty absurd amounts of dakka with the hurricane bolters and flamers. That unit costs 156 points.

Points wise, sure they look usable now. They still move 4" though. If you miss out on that first charge roll, you'll never get them into combat.

You'll want Black Templars and White Scars.

White Scars apparently have a Stratagem where you can disembark after your transport moves. That's pretty good.

Incursors seem pretty good to me. It’s them I’m thinking of combining with the reiver lieutenant and the repositioning warlord trait. They ought to be able to tie up loads of stuff, and are perfectly good fighters for their price.

These things that give you an extra hit on a 6+, like the Fists trait and incursors blades, in effect make you 25% more killy. For every four hits you would have got (on a 3+) you instead get 5. It’s not as good as another attack but it’s a step in the right direction.

Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

No update to the Index.

Still no clue if tactical doctrines are available for BA/DA/SW etc.. but some FAQ dropped to WH community.. no point values though.

Xirax wrote:
Still no clue if tactical doctrines are available for BA/DA/SW etc.. but some FAQ dropped to WH community.. no point values though.

Doctrines are explicitly not available to anyone outside of Codex: Space Marines.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

I'm not above running counts as. You seem to have an unhealthy problem with bringing me up.

Even if I don't, this is nothing compared to 6th ed.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

No update to the Index.

Wait really? I thought I read it in there.

So while Index wargear is fine, which units are left for being Index only?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

No update to the Index.

Wait really? I thought I read it in there.

So while Index wargear is fine, which units are left for being Index only?

Index update is there unless you guys are talking about some other index

“IMPERIAL ARMOUR –
INDEX: FORCES OF THE ADEPTUS ASTARTES...


Angels of Death
Add the following ability to all datasheets (excluding Grey Knights datasheets):
‘This unit has the following abilities: And They Shall Know No Fear, Bolter Discipline, Shock Assault and Combat Doctrines.’“




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sterling191 wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Still no clue if tactical doctrines are available for BA/DA/SW etc.. but some FAQ dropped to WH community.. no point values though.

Doctrines are explicitly not available to anyone outside of Codex: Space Marines.

You appear to be mistaken on this, sort of. Index SM stuff gets doctrines at least.

Stavkat wrote:

Index update is there unless you guys are talking about some other index

“IMPERIAL ARMOUR –
INDEX: FORCES OF THE ADEPTUS ASTARTES...

We are. That is the FW index, we're ralking about the Index Imperium 1.

You appear to be mistaken on this, sort of. Index SM stuff gets doctrines at least.

It only works in pure vanilla marine army though. If you put those FW index units in an army that has even one BA unit the doctrines do not work.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

No update to the Index.

Wait really? I thought I read it in there.

So while Index wargear is fine, which units are left for being Index only?

Rhino Primaris. Land Raider Excelsior. Bike versions of everything other than the Captain.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

No update to the Index.

Wait really? I thought I read it in there.

So while Index wargear is fine, which units are left for being Index only?

Rhino Primaris. Land Raider Excelsior. Bike versions of everything other than the Captain.

We might actually be okay then. Not having Biker stuff gain the bonus is silly but I think even White Scars will live.

Also you forgot the Imperial Space Marine.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also we got the update today for the Index and FW. Just makes you add the rules. So rejoice everyone and screw Martel.

No update to the Index.

Wait really? I thought I read it in there.

So while Index wargear is fine, which units are left for being Index only?

Rhino Primaris. Land Raider Excelsior. Bike versions of everything other than the Captain.

We might actually be okay then. Not having Biker stuff gain the bonus is silly but I think even White Scars will live.

Also you forgot the Imperial Space Marine.

The issue isn't that they don't gain the bonus. The issue is that everything else loses it if you field one of those units. I actually still use my Rhino Primaris from time to time, and losing Combat Doctrines because GW is lazy is really stupid.

 Crimson wrote:

Stavkat wrote:

Index update is there unless you guys are talking about some other index

“IMPERIAL ARMOUR –
INDEX: FORCES OF THE ADEPTUS ASTARTES...

We are. That is the FW index, we're ralking about the Index Imperium 1.

Whoops, crud. Don’t mind me I am too out of the loop to be helpful. The Imperium Index is how one could include techmarines on bikes, yeah?

You appear to be mistaken on this, sort of. Index SM stuff gets doctrines at least.

It only works in pure vanilla marine army though. If you put those FW index units in an army that has even one BA unit the doctrines do not work.

Yes, good point, worth reiterating.

About the space marines, not the primaris, who are the winners ? They all got something actually. Would you play predators now without the killshot stratagem ? Would you say the stormraven is still too fragile ?
What about the dreadnoughts, they had CT before and didn't see a lot of play though

Dreads get additional rules with the new Chapter Tactics so I dunno.

Predators were just lucky to get Killshot off ONCE when Rule of 3 was implemented. It isn't something that's a bonus or anything when you think about it

It has been widely reported that the Aggressors got an extra wound and attack, but there is also a buff to their double shoot rule. It has been reworded so that it now always applies to overwatch, even if they moved on their own turn.

 Crimson wrote:
It has been widely reported that the Aggressors got an extra wound and attack, but there is also a buff to their double shoot rule. It has been reworded so that it now always applies to overwatch, even if they moved on their own turn.

.............. brb buying 3 packs of agressors!

 Crimson wrote:
It has been widely reported that the Aggressors got an extra wound and attack, but there is also a buff to their double shoot rule. It has been reworded so that it now always applies to overwatch, even if they moved on their own turn.

Considering that they only ever could move on their own turn, and would always be stationary on their opponent's turn, nothing actually changed here. That said, I love my two squads of Aggressors. They get work done. And it only got better with Combat Doctrines and the added hits from Crimson Fists Chapter Tactics.

Ultramarines agressors are going to be great as you can actually move up and be, ya know, agressive, with them

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It has been widely reported that the Aggressors got an extra wound and attack, but there is also a buff to their double shoot rule. It has been reworded so that it now always applies to overwatch, even if they moved on their own turn.

Considering that they only ever could move on their own turn, and would always be stationary on their opponent's turn, nothing actually changed here. That said, I love my two squads of Aggressors. They get work done. And it only got better with Combat Doctrines and the added hits from Crimson Fists Chapter Tactics.

The old wording said they had to remain stationary on 'their turn,' so remaining stationary during opponents turn didn't benefit them. It now says 'this turn,' so it does.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It has been widely reported that the Aggressors got an extra wound and attack, but there is also a buff to their double shoot rule. It has been reworded so that it now always applies to overwatch, even if they moved on their own turn.

Considering that they only ever could move on their own turn, and would always be stationary on their opponent's turn, nothing actually changed here. That said, I love my two squads of Aggressors. They get work done. And it only got better with Combat Doctrines and the added hits from Crimson Fists Chapter Tactics.

The old wording said they had to remain stationary on 'their turn,' so remaining stationary during opponents turn didn't benefit them. It now says 'this turn,' so it does.

Ah. Well I was playing that wrong before. Now I have a bunch of stuff that is really stupid to charge (Aggressors, I will have 2x Instigator/Las Fusil Eliminator Squads, and basically all of my Intercessors). Hurray!

So, checking through the new book I was trying to figure out possible uses for the new transport. Considering that it can't take gravis armor it seems that anything that could be put in it would work just as well or better outside of it. Phobos can infiltrate, intercessors can stand still and reach across most of the board with their bolters, even plasma can simply shoot at range and you can't assault after disembarking.

The one use I can imagine that this thing can fufill that can't be done otherwise is libby delivery. Nullzone is still a powerful power, shutting off invuls can mean the death for a host of difficult to kill units. But with the aura of 6 it's a little difficult to use.

But the new transport can move 14, the libby can disembark 3 inchs away then move 6. Pop nullzone which is now on a 7 rather than a 9 and that's another 6 inchs. So you can make vunerable a unit 29 inchs away from your deployment, plus the width of the libbies base.

What do you think? Is there a better use for this transport? Do you like the idea of laughing at those irritating deathwatch and knight units while deleting them with your +1 ap heavy weapons due to the doctrines? Probably will only work on one unit a game before both transport and libby but that trade could be worth it.

Can marines go into the transport or only primaris ?

 godardc wrote:
Can marines go into the transport or only primaris ?

Just Primaris. No Gravis armor either.