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Nevermind, googled the page (since i don't have the codex at hand right now) and found that named characters can't take relics (which makes sense).

Hmm. Thinking... scouts supported by a lieutenant. Rerolling 1s to-wound allows for multiple chances to get the sniper rifle's additional mortal wound. Might be a good option considering how cheap they are, and they can support the scouts in close combat as well if equipped right. If you're already taking two or more units of sniper scouts, might as well use an Lt as both support for the scouts and a filler HQ to get another detachment and thus more CPs.

Stupid, stupid question: Is there a viable all-Dread stompy list? It would probably not be downright competitive, but could it work? I love the idea of Deredeo, Redemptors, Contemptors, etc all just wading through the small arms and blowing stuff up like a cheesy 90s cartoon.

Thoughts? Ideas?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Stupid, stupid question: Is there a viable all-Dread stompy list? It would probably not be downright competitive, but could it work? I love the idea of Deredeo, Redemptors, Contemptors, etc all just wading through the small arms and blowing stuff up like a cheesy 90s cartoon.

Thoughts? Ideas?

It certainly can. but it will have trouble with horde armies im sure. you just dont have the bodies to hold down objectives so you need to plan on killing everything instead.

 Desubot wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Stupid, stupid question: Is there a viable all-Dread stompy list? It would probably not be downright competitive, but could it work? I love the idea of Deredeo, Redemptors, Contemptors, etc all just wading through the small arms and blowing stuff up like a cheesy 90s cartoon.

Thoughts? Ideas?

It certainly can. but it will have trouble with horde armies im sure. you just dont have the bodies to hold down objectives so you need to plan on killing everything instead.

That silly Redemptor looks like it could do some crowd control. Same with a Leviathan with a Stormcannon or GFB.

Yea, holding objectives though would be a challenge though.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Stupid, stupid question: Is there a viable all-Dread stompy list? It would probably not be downright competitive, but could it work? I love the idea of Deredeo, Redemptors, Contemptors, etc all just wading through the small arms and blowing stuff up like a cheesy 90s cartoon.

Thoughts? Ideas?

I'm using two Relic Contemptors because their speed doesn't degrade as they're shot at.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Stupid, stupid question: Is there a viable all-Dread stompy list? It would probably not be downright competitive, but could it work? I love the idea of Deredeo, Redemptors, Contemptors, etc all just wading through the small arms and blowing stuff up like a cheesy 90s cartoon.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Step one, make sure you have the forge world book, you need the variety.

Step 2: Detachments. You can run either the elite or the heavy support based one, depending on which type of dread you need more of. Once you reach about 2000 points though, you can expect to have about 10 dreads and be running out of slots. If you don't want to run two chaplain dreads, you're going to want to play blood angels for a librarian dread or space wolves for Bjorn. I personally went wolves because I love the idea of a captain dread HQ, but either way this will mean you lose out for now on stratagems and chapter tactics. If you are running vanilla marines, Salamanders are your best choice, though Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Ultramarines and White Scars are all good choices that'll effect your playstyle.

3: Composition: As someone already said, you'll need some good anti horde to shore up that weakness. Thankfully, heavy bolters and assault cannons are your cheapest ranged weapon option. Take lots of them. Autocannons are more of an all-rounder choice, but can help too, especially against heavier infantry.

In a 2000 point 10 dread list I tend to take about 4 purely shooty dreads and 2 purely melee dreads, with my chaplain, Bjorn and two others going mixed.

You can also mix and match the chapters to some extent, and take techmarines as HQs if that's okay with your "pure" dread list.

Shooty RG dreads in the back, assaulty white scar, salamanders, or iron hands dreads up front, etc seems pretty good.

jcd386 wrote:
You can also mix and match the chapters to some extent, and take techmarines as HQs if that's okay with your "pure" dread list.

Shooty RG dreads in the back, assaulty white scar, salamanders, or iron hands dreads up front, etc seems pretty good.

Just be careful with distinguishing them if you go for that. It's probably okay to say, bring a librarian and some furiosos or death company in your chapter's scheme because the models are clearly distinct, but otherwise I'd absolutely paint them with very clear distinctions if you're inclined that way.

changemod wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
You can also mix and match the chapters to some extent, and take techmarines as HQs if that's okay with your "pure" dread list.

Shooty RG dreads in the back, assaulty white scar, salamanders, or iron hands dreads up front, etc seems pretty good.

Just be careful with distinguishing them if you go for that. It's probably okay to say, bring a librarian and some furiosos or death company in your chapter's scheme because the models are clearly distinct, but otherwise I'd absolutely paint them with very clear distinctions if you're inclined that way.

Yes, this 100%

Agreed. Dont' confuse people.

What is the most useful CT on a mostly Biker army? (I wanna commit and use the relevant Chapter decals on my own color scheme)

I would think RG, who can zoom around the battlefield collecting Objectives, once within 12 inches, you're in rapid range of special weapons plus its twin bolters anyway. And that ignores Warlord trait is awesome.

Then there's UM, with the Bikers good firepower, hopping out and shooting again is pretty good.

Lastly, Salamanders seem fun to get some re-rolls in the new re-roll hammer 40k.

Also, I know WS seem obvious, but my bikes are mostly plasma, and combi-weapon sergeants. Not an assault army.

Raven Guard is really really good

If you're using minimum-sized plasma bike squads then salamanders would probably be best. Salamanders tend to be the best choice for armies with lots of small units, as you get a lot of free rerolls.

Ravenguard are great, but I'm pretty sure their stratagem only works for infantry. That limits what you can do with bikers. And plasma guys want to get within 12", so the CT isn't all that great either.

The ultramarines' ability to fall back and shoot is good - if you survive the fight. 3-model units may not do that very often. Plasma guns also hate firing at -1 to hit. That said, their stratagem to give you rerolls of 1s to hit is also pretty useful - though you may as well start out with salamanders CT in the first place and keep your CPs.

It's a shame that GW thinks that bikers are an assault unit, because otherwise they might have given white scar bikers a CT that was actually useful. Advancing and charging is very good for characters and command squads, but not for the fast attack bike squads.

For my Crimson Fists Lieutenant, should I give him a Storm Bolter or a Master-crafted Boltgun? Are the added shots better than doing two wounds? BTW, he will be running with Pedro Kantor, so he will be rerolling misses and getting Rerolls of 1s to Wounds regardless.

it really depends on what you're fighting. If you're fighting a lot of two-wound models, the extra AP and damage on the MCBG makes it a winner. Otherwise, storm bolters.

 Melissia wrote:
it really depends on what you're fighting. If you're fighting a lot of two-wound models, the extra AP and damage on the MCBG makes it a winner. Otherwise, storm bolters.

I have plenty of ways to deal with single wound models, so I think I am going to keep the MCBG. It goes well with Pedro's Dorn's Arrow.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
it really depends on what you're fighting. If you're fighting a lot of two-wound models, the extra AP and damage on the MCBG makes it a winner. Otherwise, storm bolters.

I have plenty of ways to deal with single wound models, so I think I am going to keep the MCBG. It goes well with Pedro's Dorn's Arrow.

The storm bolter is strictly better than a MCBG. There's no target against which it's better to do 2 damage, but have half as many shots. Even if you're fighting Primaris marines or something the storm bolter does equal damage, but with no problem firing at them if one is already wounded (when the second MCBG wound would be wasted). Storm bolters are twice as good against anything with 1 wound, and no worse against things with multiple wounds.

It doesn't matter much though. It's only one gun on a guy who will be in combat a lot of the time.

Storm bolters got no AP, wouldn't say it's strictly better but like you said, it's a single dude

Hmm I forgot about the AP. In that case they are kind of equivalent. Take whatever you prefer.

hink a lot of things will change once we digest the points changes. Here is a list of all the changes I could find

Captain in terminator -17
Librarian in Terminator + 2
Techmarine - 13
Centurion Assault - 20
Chapter Champion - 5
Company Champion - 16
Ironclad Dreadnaught - 40
Attack Bike - 10
Bike - 6
Inceptor - 15
Land Speeders - 10
Scout Bike - 2
Centurion Dev + 15
Hellblaster - 2
Predator - 12
Stalker - 10
Thunderfire + 27
Techmarine Gunner - 10
Vindicator - 25
Whirlwind - 15
Drop Pod - 10
Land Speeder Storm - 10
Cassius - 40
Emperors Champion - 33
Marneus Calagar - 50
Sgt Chronus - 23
Telion - 14
Skyspear Missile Launcher - 30
Special Issue Boltgun - 1
Thunderfire Cannon - 30
Lightning Claws - 1
Power Fist - 8
Thunderhammer - 4 (For Both)

I wonder how useful TFC will be with the overall points reduction and the new stratagem that halves speed.

 Desubot wrote:
I wonder how useful TFC will be with the overall points reduction and the new stratagem that halves speed.

Yeah, TFC got a 13 point decrease per unit, just over 10 percent. Personally I like them because the techmarine gunner is great for repairing and it doesnt limit the ability of the TFC to fire. Ironclads got a much needed drop in points. 99 points for a barebones ironclad is rock solid!!

It's hard to see the TFC as a must take at the moment. The thing is just so vulnerable to being shot - though I suppose you can mitigate that by hiding it. It doesn't seem to do nearly enough damage either, in a game in which manticores and basilisks exist.

The stratagem is decent, and turns it into a unit to consider. It's nice that the gunner can fix stuff.

I'm still sad that veteran bikers are gone.

cmspano wrote:
I'm still sad that veteran bikers are gone.

They arent. You can still use the index. Let's stop talking about this, lol.

Is there a faq I missed on that? I assumed you could use the index or the codex, but would you be able to use units from the index that don't appear in the codex and still use codex units/rules?

Not a FAQ so much as a general statement by GW on the Warhammer-Community site.

Man, Centurion devastators got ridiculously overpriced. 7th edition I had 3 Cents, grav, missiles, omniscope, plus a tech marine/librarian with Hunters Eye, in a drop pod for 405 pts.

Now its 400 pts for just those same Centurions. Shelved.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Man, Centurion devastators got ridiculously overpriced. 7th edition I had 3 Cents, grav, missiles, omniscope, plus a tech marine/librarian with Hunters Eye, in a drop pod for 405 pts.

Now its 400 pts for just those same Centurions. Shelved.

It is pretty amazing how bad Centurions are and that they made them *more* expensive in the codex for some bizarre reason.

Ironclads got a much needed drop in points. 99 points for a barebones ironclad is rock solid!!

Yeah Ironclads are a bit of a sleeper hit. Way better imo than most other dreadnoughts due to that incredibly low point cost. However they aren't 99pts, you replace the DCCW (0 points) with hurricane bolter not the 48pt Seismic Hammer. Base cost is over 140pts.