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bort wrote:
I've tried a Storm a bit since I bought it right before 8th rules hit. I like being able to deep strike it in to their deployment zone or on an objective late if I don't need the scouts as my own protection. However, the fact it costs nearly the same as a twin AC razorback for like half the firepower and survivability make me constantly wonder if the occasional use is worth the cost.

Deep striking seems to have a hella price for this edition.

didnt it used to have a blind grenade?

thats gone now right?

 Desubot wrote:

bort wrote:
I've tried a Storm a bit since I bought it right before 8th rules hit. I like being able to deep strike it in to their deployment zone or on an objective late if I don't need the scouts as my own protection. However, the fact it costs nearly the same as a twin AC razorback for like half the firepower and survivability make me constantly wonder if the occasional use is worth the cost.

Deep striking seems to have a hella price for this edition.

didnt it used to have a blind grenade?

thats gone now right?

Yes, the Cerberus Launcher used to have a blinding effect but now it doesn't. Big reason behind me dropping my storms. I am going to give the gunners back their Heavy Bolters instead of the Heavy Flamer too.

Yeah, it also lost the jamming beacon feature.

 Desubot wrote:

bort wrote:
I've tried a Storm a bit since I bought it right before 8th rules hit. I like being able to deep strike it in to their deployment zone or on an objective late if I don't need the scouts as my own protection. However, the fact it costs nearly the same as a twin AC razorback for like half the firepower and survivability make me constantly wonder if the occasional use is worth the cost.

Deep striking seems to have a hella price for this edition.

didnt it used to have a blind grenade?

thats gone now right?

Yeah. It's a Frag ML now basically. Not really worth it.

bort wrote:
Yeah, it also lost the jamming beacon feature.

Aww man forgot about that too. honestly pretty weak sauce.

bort wrote:
I've tried a Storm a bit since I bought it right before 8th rules hit. I like being able to deep strike it in to their deployment zone or on an objective late if I don't need the scouts as my own protection. However, the fact it costs nearly the same as a twin AC razorback for like half the firepower and survivability make me constantly wonder if the occasional use is worth the cost.

Since when can storms deep strike?

Fair point on the firepower and survivability, clearly. In fairness though you do kind of have to factor in the firepower of the scouts inside. A tactical squad can't fire out of its razorback.

No dex handy, they cant? Could just start it out of sight and zoom it up to same effect, but oops. Too many editions mixed in my head.

bort wrote:
No dex handy, they cant? Could just start it out of sight and zoom it up to same effect, but oops. Too many editions mixed in my head.

Just checked Oh they dont

they lost deep strike too.

I loved the LSS until they removed the option for swapping its weapon out. As a fairly cheap objective capper it's great, although since the 'dex dropped I'm leaning more towards a couple of attack bikes for that role.

Bleh, well...There went my main reason it might be worth the cost. Can still fly charge-withdraw-shoot, I suppose, but sounds like thats about all it offers over the razor and the shooting just isnt that exciting since the scouts cant fire after.

What would people recommend for White Scars Hellblasters?

I'm torn between the Rapid Fire and Assault guns. Assault makes use of tactics better but Rapid Fire can go up to S8 and wound vehicles on 3s.

Leaning more towards Assault Plasma as I'm thinking of getting some bikes (thats if they don't release primaris bikes) with Meltaguns.

Assault makes more sense to get the most out of that sweet advance bonus.

 Frozocrone wrote:
What would people recommend for White Scars Hellblasters?

I'm torn between the Rapid Fire and Assault guns. Assault makes use of tactics better but Rapid Fire can go up to S8 and wound vehicles on 3s.

Leaning more towards Assault Plasma as I'm thinking of getting some bikes (thats if they don't release primaris bikes) with Meltaguns.

I dunno. RF also makes it so you wound T4 multi wound models on a 2+ and at 30" range with a 15" range RF the situation may not come up that often that you are out of range. unless playing on hammer and anvil or a truly massive table.

i guess it wouldnt be tooo bad if running up against a lot of not marines in your meta.

I'd like some dreadnought advice please.

First & foremost: Relic Leviathan weapons, are the Storm Cannons a servicable alternative to the others? Everyone's raving about the Bombard and Lance but frankly I prefer other things for dedicated tankhunting and I was already planning a Bombard Leviathan for my future Iron Hands successor project, so I'm hoping the Cannons aren't total garbage.

Next up, Chaplain Dreads - would the Inferno Cannon ever be a worthwhile buy on a footslogging dread? I suspect the Multimelta would be a better choice but I do love burning me some witches.

Also, Ironclads - Hurricanes look decent this edition, would a Hurricane/Chainfist/Melta/dual-HK loadout be decent?

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'd like some dreadnought advice please.

First & foremost: Relic Leviathan weapons, are the Storm Cannons a servicable alternative to the others? Everyone's raving about the Bombard and Lance but frankly I prefer other things for dedicated tankhunting and I was already planning a Bombard Leviathan for my future Iron Hands successor project, so I'm hoping the Cannons aren't total garbage.

Next up, Chaplain Dreads - would the Inferno Cannon ever be a worthwhile buy on a footslogging dread? I suspect the Multimelta would be a better choice but I do love burning me some witches.

Also, Ironclads - Hurricanes look decent this edition, would a Hurricane/Chainfist/Melta/dual-HK loadout be decent?

1st: Yes all three of the weapons are off the chart in term of cost efficiency. Feel free to use whatever.
2nd: if it's the f6 -2 2d ,then it's a really decent gun better than -1 to hit multi melta.
3rd: Ironclad hurricane is a really decent option due to the fact that the hurricane is extremly cost efficient.

PandatheWarrior wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'd like some dreadnought advice please.

First & foremost: Relic Leviathan weapons, are the Storm Cannons a servicable alternative to the others? Everyone's raving about the Bombard and Lance but frankly I prefer other things for dedicated tankhunting and I was already planning a Bombard Leviathan for my future Iron Hands successor project, so I'm hoping the Cannons aren't total garbage.

Next up, Chaplain Dreads - would the Inferno Cannon ever be a worthwhile buy on a footslogging dread? I suspect the Multimelta would be a better choice but I do love burning me some witches.

Also, Ironclads - Hurricanes look decent this edition, would a Hurricane/Chainfist/Melta/dual-HK loadout be decent?

1st: Yes all three of the weapons are off the chart in term of cost efficiency. Feel free to use whatever.
2nd: if it's the f6 -2 2d ,then it's a really decent gun better than -1 to hit multi melta.
3rd: Ironclad hurricane is a really decent option due to the fact that the hurricane is extremly cost efficient.

Cheers.

On point 2 - the gun has a nice statline, but the range is only 8"(so 14" including Movement). While I definitely intend the Chaplain Dread to be advancing up the field, I just worry I'd get a lot more use out of the 24"(30" inc. M) range multimelta.

 Yodhrin wrote:


Cheers.

On point 2 - the gun has a nice statline, but the range is only 8"(so 14" including Movement). While I definitely intend the Chaplain Dread to be advancing up the field, I just worry I'd get a lot more use out of the 24"(30" inc. M) range multimelta.

Dunno, in my book the flamestorm is top nocht and do better agaisnt most if not all targets, it's a nice tool to have where you could have anti tank somewhere else. The only reason i'd go melta, it's if you go lizard Chapter Tactic to reroll Hit/Wound.

I ran a chaplain dread last night with a twin lascannon. It was fantastic.

I'm a very bad person, so I was running it as my warlord with the armour indominatus. In the end it only got to fire the lascannons in overwatch, because I was against grey knights - who kept throwing themselves at it. On turn 1 it managed to zap 6 wounds off a charging dreadknight, but then did no more damage with shooting.

Chaplain dreads aren't really about their gun. They are about hitting things and being tough (at least if wearing relic armour ).

The chaplain dread was backed up by a Primaris Librarian, who stood behind it casting null zone and giving it might of heroes. It ended up killing two dreadknights and Draigo, while taking only 4 wounds.

That was pretty lucky, but also showed some of the effects of high probability dice rolls. The problem the dreadknights had was hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 3+, whereas I was hitting and wounding on a 2+. When the first DK came in it actually landed 3 wounding hits with its hammer, so I procced the armour and survived (rolled 3,4,4 for saves, so glad I did use the armour!). I only got one hit through in return, so I left the dreadknight on 3 wounds and had to kill it in my own turn.

I think the lascannons are the best option really, even though in this game I didn't get to fire them much. The flamer thing just isn't going to be in range often enough to matter, and the chaplain isn't fast. Lascannons can make a real difference against the kinds of things he's designed to fight. Multimeltas have worse strength and only one shot.

For me, the purpose of dreadnoughts is hitting things with dreadnought close combat weapons. Contemptors are therefore my favourite dreadnoughts, by a mile. They move faster, hit on a 2+ and at a higher base strength than normal dreadnoughts or ironclads. They cost far less than redemptors. Their guns don't do all that much, but in a way that's fine, because they spend so much of their time locked in cc.

The 9" move makes a really major difference too, as it allows them to come charging out at people who come to threaten your front line.

So when people ask questions like what weapon should you put on an ironclad, I'll always respond that I think they should just take contemptors. For what it's worth, sure, a hurricane bolter looks a decent option for an ironclad. I'd stick a chainsaw on the left side because -1 to hit with the hammer is crippling.

Oh I love me some Contemptors, but I'm planning out five different SM forces at the moment(small Deathwatch, Black Templars, Raptors, Iron Hands successor, small Exorcists) and I'm trying to spread dreadnoughts across them in a thematic way - the Leviathan(Lev. weaps on a Redemptor chassis), Ironclad, and Chaplain are all for the Black Templars.

I think I'll build both MM and Inferno arms and magnetise until I figure out which I prefer, thanks for the advice gents.

I have given the leviathan some thought. Personally I think double stormcannon is how I'd run one. Those 20 shots would do a lot of good, I'm sure.

The weird thing about the leviathan is how it loses attacks if you stick guns on it. This means it's by no means the best cc dreadnought. In fact, you don't get much more power than a contemptor provides for roughly half the price. Two contemtors are certainly better in assault than a leviathan.

But as a gun platform it's really quite interesting. Storm cannons will tear up just about any target and the dread is pretty resilient against return fire.

The reason I prefer the storm cannons is mainly their range. A weakness with any other armament will be getting tied up in melee too often. Its overwatch is pretty good of course, and it's not easy to kill, but if you give it two 18" range guns it's going to be charged at some point.

The other factor is that 18" range guns may not find any targets on turn 1. 24" range guns really should.

Mandragola wrote:
I have given the leviathan some thought. Personally I think double stormcannon is how I'd run one. Those 20 shots would do a lot of good, I'm sure.

The weird thing about the leviathan is how it loses attacks if you stick guns on it. This means it's by no means the best cc dreadnought. In fact, you don't get much more power than a contemptor provides for roughly half the price. Two contemtors are certainly better in assault than a leviathan.

But as a gun platform it's really quite interesting. Storm cannons will tear up just about any target and the dread is pretty resilient against return fire.

The reason I prefer the storm cannons is mainly their range. A weakness with any other armament will be getting tied up in melee too often. Its overwatch is pretty good of course, and it's not easy to kill, but if you give it two 18" range guns it's going to be charged at some point.

The other factor is that 18" range guns may not find any targets on turn 1. 24" range guns really should.

If you're worried a lot about being tarpitted, you should trying using it as Ultramarines then in this instance. As I run it with 1 gun and the Drills, I like throwing it in melee.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I have given the leviathan some thought. Personally I think double stormcannon is how I'd run one. Those 20 shots would do a lot of good, I'm sure.

The weird thing about the leviathan is how it loses attacks if you stick guns on it. This means it's by no means the best cc dreadnought. In fact, you don't get much more power than a contemptor provides for roughly half the price. Two contemtors are certainly better in assault than a leviathan.

But as a gun platform it's really quite interesting. Storm cannons will tear up just about any target and the dread is pretty resilient against return fire.

The reason I prefer the storm cannons is mainly their range. A weakness with any other armament will be getting tied up in melee too often. Its overwatch is pretty good of course, and it's not easy to kill, but if you give it two 18" range guns it's going to be charged at some point.

The other factor is that 18" range guns may not find any targets on turn 1. 24" range guns really should.

If you're worried a lot about being tarpitted, you should trying using it as Ultramarines then in this instance. As I run it with 1 gun and the Drills, I like throwing it in melee.

White scars can be okay for this too

jcd386 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I have given the leviathan some thought. Personally I think double stormcannon is how I'd run one. Those 20 shots would do a lot of good, I'm sure.

The weird thing about the leviathan is how it loses attacks if you stick guns on it. This means it's by no means the best cc dreadnought. In fact, you don't get much more power than a contemptor provides for roughly half the price. Two contemtors are certainly better in assault than a leviathan.

But as a gun platform it's really quite interesting. Storm cannons will tear up just about any target and the dread is pretty resilient against return fire.

The reason I prefer the storm cannons is mainly their range. A weakness with any other armament will be getting tied up in melee too often. Its overwatch is pretty good of course, and it's not easy to kill, but if you give it two 18" range guns it's going to be charged at some point.

The other factor is that 18" range guns may not find any targets on turn 1. 24" range guns really should.

If you're worried a lot about being tarpitted, you should trying using it as Ultramarines then in this instance. As I run it with 1 gun and the Drills, I like throwing it in melee.

White scars can be okay for this too

Not for the double gun build.

Hey guys. I have been having a little trouble getting feedback on this list I am considering. Hoping maybe the tactics thread can give me some feedback.

I am considering starting a Storm Wardens army. Decided Black Templars was the way to best represent them. I want to get some Tempest Blades in there since Storm Wardens love them some giant space swords. And they otherwise specialize in a mechanized assault. So here is what I have for a 2k list.


HQs

Chaplain Grimaldus
High Marshal Helbrecht
Emperors Champion (Top Tempest Blade)

Troops

Crusader Squad x4
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Lascannon
-Initiate w/ Plasma
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword CombiPlasma

1 unit will replace the Lascannon with a Heavy Bolter (because points)

Elites

Company Champion (Tempest Blade) w/MC Power Sword and the Shield Eternal
Contemptor Dread w/ Multi Melta
Vanguard Vet Squad x2 w/ Jump Packs
-Vet Sgt w/ Relic Blade & Plasma Pistol
-Vet w/ Power Sword & Storm Shield x3
-Vet w/ Power Sword and Plasma Pistol

Heavy Support

Land Raider Crusader x2 w/Multi Melta


So I figure 2 crusaders join helbecht and a champ in a LR while 2 crusaders join the other champ and Gimaldus. The contemptor marches up the field blasting away and each unit of vanguard vets jump in to grab those sweet sweet melee bonuses from the charaters and support the champs where ever they would hit hardest.

Is this list decent at all? Viable on any level?

What is your plan to put in those land raiders? The crusader squads? It seems fine to me, good enough to at least try but it seems like those lr's could do more, even putting some cc vets without jump packs would make sense in that situation since those are the up close and personal lr's.

I was going to load up 2 crusader squads, 1 named character and 1 of the champions (yes I know emperors champ is a named character) into each. Use the LRCs to drop off the crusaders as need be where they would be most effective.

Maybe sticking with the characters but seems unlikely, grab objectives, taking up firing positions etc etc...

And then deep strike in the jump pack vets to support the character/champs and grab the buffs from the auras.

The LRC would drop lots of anti infantry dakka while I rely on the heavy/special weapons/plasma scattered about/dread for anti vehicle support.

In that regard I end up with 4 plasma pistols/3 lascannons/4 plasma guns/ 2 LRC mounted Multi Meltas/and a Contemptor Multi Melta.

I figure that gives it all a real nice distribution so that it can't just be focused off the table or anything while keeping everyone more or less capable of dealing with everything.

If your going to put the crusaders in them then I would pull the laz cannon. If you want close up anti tank since your dropping them off up front anyways I would do multi melta myself and go for that sweet 2d6 take the highest damage roll. Otherwise if your keeping the laz cannons it seems like a waste on black templars, they are a force that loves close range, not distance. Maybe take the laz cannons in a dev squad and make the crusader squads larger?

Ok, what about this set up for my Crusaders

Troops

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Power Sword
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Melta

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Power Sword
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Melta

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Multi Melta
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Plasma

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Multi Melta
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Plasma


With this set up I would end up with 4 initiates 2 Meltas 1 Multi Melta 1 Power Sword and 2 Sword Brothers with a Power Sword 1 with Combi Melta and 1 with Combi Plasma inside of reach LRC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also side question. I noticed that Tac squads don't actually come with heavy weapon components. Do people just insert devestators into Tac/crusader squads?

Space marine noob here, but does SFTS work only on infantry or any ravenguard unit?

 Klowny wrote:
Space marine noob here, but does SFTS work only on infantry or any ravenguard unit?

It specifically says "Ravenguard Infantry unit". No hidden Land Raiders.