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greatgut wrote:
What's everyone's opinion on the best unit to drop out of a stormraven with an ironclad as an in your face assault?

If you are looking for what is purely optimal? I would say Centurions. Everything else gets cheaper delivery options. You could do VV without Jump Packs also, but my preference if I am just sticking something in it because I want a Storm Raven? A good Ranged squad. Sternguard or some Devastators with mid range weapons like Multi-meltas and Grav-cannons. This way you can drop them off a turn earlier than the Ironclad (or even at the same time for some counter-charge defence), and then carry on after. Assault Centurions with Hurricane Bolters and Meltaguns are my favored unit inside either a Land Raider or a Storm Raven though. They are mean and people quickly learn to respect them. I always run them with Pedro, but they can be almost as good with a Chaplain, and I would also use a Lieutenant and an Apothecary with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
As we are speaking about terminators, and cataphractii, what are your feelings about them ?
I like my assault termi, but the standard ones are lacklustre, they are lacking in firepower and lacking in durability.
I have great hope for cataphractii (haven't field them yet).
The 4++ and LC instead of the -1 to hit powerfists seem very sweet.

I use Cataphractii with a Lightning Claw and a Storm Bolter. They are great anti light infantry. They can be great with dual LC also, but against most things I would want to send them against the Storm Bolter is just too valuable.Assault Terminators only ever with TH/SS since the Cataphractii do LC better. Regular Termies are odd. Ultimately the only reason to use them is if you want to deep strike to clear a back objective, and then recall back to defend your own. They can be okay in this way, and I actually prefer the missiles for this because you keep the Storm Bolter.

I need a Captain for my Primaris force, and is it just me or is the Gravis version really overpriced? Now that the normal Primaris Captain can get fist and plasma pistol, he has comparable CC power and slightly different sort, but still comparable pistol-ranged shooting. The only real advantage the Gravis has is T5, but certainly that's not worth 30 points? Either version can be further improved by armour Indomitus, which to me seems like clearly the best relics the Primaris Marines have access to.

 Crimson wrote:
I need a Captain for my Primaris force, and is it just me or is the Gravis version really overpriced? Now that the normal Primaris Captain can get fist and plasma pistol, he has comparable CC power and slightly different sort, but still comparable pistol-ranged shooting. The only real advantage the Gravis has is T5, but certainly that's not worth 30 points? Either version can be further improved by armour Indomitus, which to me seems like clearly the best relics the Primaris Marines have access to.

Agreed. The problem with the gravis captain is really his master-crafted power sword. It's mathematically worse than his power fist in almost any situation, so it's basically wasted, but he blows 10 points on it. If he was 20 points more than the guy with plasma pistol and fist then you might consider it - especially if he had a decent gun on his other arm. But the sword does absolutely nothing for him.

It's obviously also pretty frustrating that the standard primaris captain doesn't have access to a master-crafted sword.

All of this ends up meaning that the fist and plasma guy is by far the best option. T5 is good, but it's not worth 30 points.

Mandragola wrote:

Agreed. The problem with the gravis captain is really his master-crafted power sword. It's mathematically worse than his power fist in almost any situation, so it's basically wasted, but he blows 10 points on it. If he was 20 points more than the guy with plasma pistol and fist then you might consider it - especially if he had a decent gun on his other arm. But the sword does absolutely nothing for him.

It's obviously also pretty frustrating that the standard primaris captain doesn't have access to a master-crafted sword.

Yeah, this is massively annoying. Stupid greedy Gravis Captain hogging all the good swords he doesn't even need!

I will use the sword on 2 wound models. It is useful there. If you are worried about the to wound roll just bring a Libby and use Might of the Ancients. I use the Gravis guy only if I want more of a melee beatstick and because I like the extra attack and wound over a normal captain and the extra toughness can be good too. Mostly I just use a normal captain if I am not springing for a named Chapter Master though. Primaris Characters for me are less useful in general over their normal counterparts.

More useful in a gunline I find; the captain is a bigger beatstick/threat deterrent for whatever eventually makes it to you. Played a game yesterday where my Gravis captain obliterated a Hive Tyrant that made it to me Hellblasters.

I'm planning on using my CP for the Relics of the chapter stratagem and giving my Apothecary in my melee based "command squad" the teeth of terra. Wondered if people thought that was a good idea for extra kills

 Captain Garius wrote:
I will use the sword on 2 wound models. It is useful there. If you are worried about the to wound roll just bring a Libby and use Might of the Ancients. I use the Gravis guy only if I want more of a melee beatstick and because I like the extra attack and wound over a normal captain and the extra toughness can be good too. Mostly I just use a normal captain if I am not springing for a named Chapter Master though. Primaris Characters for me are less useful in general over their normal counterparts.

I'm not comparing him to a normal captain, I'm comparing him to the limited edition Primaris Captain, you know the one with fist and plasma pistol.

You mean the one I wish wasn't so limited. So much nicer than the standard Primaris captain model.

Bremon wrote:
You mean the one I wish wasn't so limited. So much nicer than the standard Primaris captain model.

Yes, that. I'm kitbashing a counts-as.

No I got that, I was just saying that in general I don't like the Primaris Captains at all. So when I run one it is the Gravis because of what it brings over the standard Captain. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Power Fists to me are meh. I like stock 2 damage weapons generally, so I actually use the MC Power Sword on the Gravis guy more often. Easier time to hit in my experience is better than an equal chance of doing more or less damage with an easier time to wound.

I don't see any reason to run a Primaris Captain over a normal Captain ever, unless you want to be pure primaris. The ability to take a thunder hammer, or just be cheap with a chainsword (which can be the teeth of terra if it looks like you'll need it in the matchup) is just plain better.

 Crimson wrote:

Bremon wrote:
You mean the one I wish wasn't so limited. So much nicer than the standard Primaris captain model.

Yes, that. I'm kitbashing a counts-as.

Using the regular Primaris Captain as a base, all you really have to do is cut off the pointing arm and attach the Hellblaster Sergeant Plasma Pistol in its place and attach a Power Fist where the Bolt Rifle attaches on the right arm. Minimal green stuff required. I actually made a much better pose for the regular Primaris Captain using the slung Bolt Rifle and Bolt Pistol arm from the Intercessor kit. It makes that particular kit look significantly better, IMO.

At any rate, I am really looking forward to getting my Anniversary Captain regardless.

Alright guys, help me out here.

I'm a returning player from 4th and I can't for the life of me make a 1500pt Space Marine list that I like. How the heck do you make an SM list without Guilliman that doesn't stink?

What are some of the core formations that you take in most of your lists? Do you even bother with troops? Are Scouts as superior to Tacticals as they seem?

Are there any units that you always take? Either because they're solid or just fun?

How many Lascannons should be taken in 1500 and 2000 point games?

And how in the name of the God Emperor of Mankind do I deal with freaking IG?

I just don't really understand where Space Marines get their teeth at the moment.

 tpogs wrote:
Alright guys, help me out here.

I'm a returning player from 4th and I can't for the life of me make a 1500pt Space Marine list that I like. How the heck do you make an SM list without Guilliman that doesn't stink?

What are some of the core formations that you take in most of your lists? Do you even bother with troops? Are Scouts as superior to Tacticals as they seem?

Are there any units that you always take? Either because they're solid or just fun?

How many Lascannons should be taken in 1500 and 2000 point games?

And how in the name of the God Emperor of Mankind do I deal with freaking IG?

I just don't really understand where Space Marines get their teeth at the moment.

I have been doing well with the following "core" elements and units.

1 or more captain and lieutenant in every list - the rerolls are just wonderful. I also frequently use 3CP to make the captain a chapter master for almost as good as Roubute (plus getting to use not UM chapter tactics) goodness.

2-3 units of bolter Scouts - these get you CP, and probably more importantly, stop you from being assaulted out of deepstrike / block first turn charges from getting your shooty stuff.

2 Twin Autocannon Dreads - I really like having some source of 2 damage in my lists, as it reliably wrecks anything that relies on having 2 wounds to give it durability, especially things like bikes, Primaris Marines, and other medium-heavy infantry. It can also be fairly effective against things like terminators in a pinch.

3 units of devastators, and an ancient with the relic flag- I usually only use this if i am playing imperial fists (with their warlord trait) or ravenguard (for their chapter tactic), as I find they don't have the durability needed to stick around otherwise, but it is a powerful shooting core. Mine have missile launchers because i like the flexibility for killing infantry, but las works too. the ancient is wonderful for making your devs a painful target to kill, as you will frequently kill things with the death shots. I definitely upgrade the captain to a chapter master in these lists.

2-3 Las preds - in lists i don't run the devastators, and want to use a lot of vehicles (honestly i typically run these with Roubute, since otherwise i really like RG/IF devs better, but it's not required). I do think it's important to not have these be your only tanks, as they will take fire and die.

2-3 Assault cannon razorbacks - they are wonderful, plain and simple.

1-2 tactical squads in a rhino - I don't love this unit, but it is nice to have a unit hiding in the razorbacks or rhinos to help keep something between your shooty units and the enemy. Having a melee unit shut down your razorbacks or predators is unacceptable, and I find tacticals to be enough to stop or slow down most things with some plasma + a likely doomed assault. Also don't forget to overcharge the plasma if you have a captain aura nearby (and you should), as it is almost always worth risking 1/36 change to lose a guy (who will likely die the next turn anyway) to wound on 3s against T7 and 2s against T4.

1-2 Rhinos - these are quite good for being an annoying monstrous creature that can charge shooting units and tie them up in combat after dumping a load of marines to their doom.

I have used other units (assault marines, bikes, attack bikes, speeders) in order to do things like fill a Brigade, and haven't been overly impressed with them. I don't have any scout bikers, but i think they are probably the best fast attack option for cheap dakka and whatnot.

Some non space marine units i find good to add in are (I get if you don't want to use these / hate the very idea of it / want to fight me for even considering it, but I like them):
Celestine - she is a monster, is very cheap, and usually kills one unit on the first turn, soaks up 1/3 of the enemy firepower, dies, comes back, and does it again the next turn.
Eversor assassin - sort of like a mini Celestine, this guy will gank a infantry unit and then probably die, but it is usually worth the distraction. The other assassins are pretty good as well, but i like this one best.
Inquisitors - these may not be great units, but i like that they are cheap psykers and that they can hide in transports, which helps them get into smite range. The power that makes stuff not overwatch can be slightly useful as well.

Some general SM thoughts:

- You are a shooting army, and that's about it. Most of your movement and fire priority choices involve making it so your shooty units can keep shooting as long as possible. This means using chaff like scouts and tacticals to get in the way of things, and distraction units like celestine to soak up some shooting. The only real SM exceptions to this are Roubute, who is a CC monster, and thunder hammer captains, who are quite good as well and can be used effectively as a counter punch unit, but you want to make sure you have another captain or chapter master around for rerolls as this guy is likely to die at some point.

- If you have marines outside of a transport, they will probably die. For this reason, take your time in getting them out of transports, and don't be afraid to charge them into things as long as you don't think they will get completely wiped out. Tying things up in combat is so good against a lot of armies as it lets you keep shooting.

- Auras are king. Rerolls, the warlord trait that makes 6s to wound +1AP, and the Ancient banners are the boost that marines need to not be terrible. I feel like you should always have at least reroll 1s to hit and 1s to wound on pretty much every unit you expect to do anything useful. This usually means 1-2 captains and 1-2 lieutenants for me.

I usually handle IG by trying to kill the things that can actually hurt me (not the infantry, usually) and then grinding through the infantry as i can. Against not super optimized tournament lists this works most of the time, or at least makes it a close game. The only thing that gives me a really hard time is when there is enough terrain to hide 3-5 pieces of artillery...but I'm not really sure what anyone can do against that.

Anyway, that's been my experience.

jcd386 wrote:


~snip~

Thanks, this is actually really helpful. I'm curious, why do you put so much value in the Ancients?

Could something like this work?

1499pts
1 regular space marine captain with jump pack, thunder hammer, storm shield

1 regular Lt. with jump pack, hammer, combi plasma

2x5 bolter scouts
1x5 intercessors with grenade launcher and power sword

1x6 plasma inceptors
1x6 bolter inceptors

1x10 hellblasters

The general plan is to use the strike from the shadow stratagem to deploy the hellblasters somewhere in cover with a good view of the field at the start of the battle.

Use the scouts to create some deep strike free space around them.

If an opportunity presents itself, deep strike the jump pack HQ in with them along with the plasma inceptors so hose something with a ton of overcharged plasma.

If necessary the bolter inceptors can be used to blast away bubble wrap or get in front of the plasma inceptors.

Our tables tend to be pretty full of structures that provide both cover and height so I like the mobility of inceptors. The plasma kind are just so expensive though.

I wouldn't spend that much on inceptors in a 1500 pt game and wouldn't play the plasma ones at all. The bolter ones are even questionable at 30 pts/wound. Inceptors mostly get 1-2 turns to shoot and then are dead. The Hellblasters in one squad does nothing two squads of 5 don't except paint a giant target on the squad that says "here is the juiciest squad I have."

So many things can ruin an inceptors day. Smite. Autocannon. An exocrine. Hell, genestealers move almost as fast as they do.

 Captain Garius wrote:
No I got that, I was just saying that in general I don't like the Primaris Captains at all. So when I run one it is the Gravis because of what it brings over the standard Captain. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Power Fists to me are meh. I like stock 2 damage weapons generally, so I actually use the MC Power Sword on the Gravis guy more often. Easier time to hit in my experience is better than an equal chance of doing more or less damage with an easier time to wound.

I don't think math agrees with you. Against most targets the fist is just better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jcd386 wrote:
I don't see any reason to run a Primaris Captain over a normal Captain ever, unless you want to be pure primaris. The ability to take a thunder hammer, or just be cheap with a chainsword (which can be the teeth of terra if it looks like you'll need it in the matchup) is just plain better.

Well yeah, Primaris character weapon selection is just pathetic and the inability to take the good relic weapons is infuriating. Still, with an extra attack the fist is almost (but only almost) as good as the hammer and you have an extra wound. I guess it depends on how much you value that wound.

 tpogs wrote:

jcd386 wrote:


~snip~

Thanks, this is actually really helpful. I'm curious, why do you put so much value in the Ancients?

Because people ARE going to shoot my devastators, and some of them ARE going to die.

For 63 points and the relic banner, those devastators get to shoot once more on a 3+, meaning you typically get 8 more missile shots for 63 points. It just seems worth it to me, and also makes the Devs slightly more annoying for the enemy to shoot at. And if they don't shoot at them because you have an ancient, that's fine too.

It's also the best 3rd elite slot i've found to go along with the dakka dreads in detachments.

jcd386 wrote:

 tpogs wrote:

jcd386 wrote:


~snip~

Thanks, this is actually really helpful. I'm curious, why do you put so much value in the Ancients?

Because people ARE going to shoot my devastators, and some of them ARE going to die.

For 63 points and the relic banner, those devastators get to shoot once more on a 3+, meaning you typically get 8 more missile shots for 63 points. It just seems worth it to me, and also makes the Devs slightly more annoying for the enemy to shoot at. And if they don't shoot at them because you have an ancient, that's fine too.

It's also the best 3rd elite slot i've found to go along with the dakka dreads in detachments.

It seems reaaaaally difficult to get 10 or 15 devs into a 6' bubble.

 tpogs wrote:

jcd386 wrote:

 tpogs wrote:

jcd386 wrote:


~snip~

Thanks, this is actually really helpful. I'm curious, why do you put so much value in the Ancients?

Because people ARE going to shoot my devastators, and some of them ARE going to die.

For 63 points and the relic banner, those devastators get to shoot once more on a 3+, meaning you typically get 8 more missile shots for 63 points. It just seems worth it to me, and also makes the Devs slightly more annoying for the enemy to shoot at. And if they don't shoot at them because you have an ancient, that's fine too.

It's also the best 3rd elite slot i've found to go along with the dakka dreads in detachments.

It seems reaaaaally difficult to get 10 or 15 devs into a 6' bubble.

Why? Only the ones carrying heavy weapons matter and now that templates are gone you can just pack them up. Make 2 concentric circles around that ancient for all it matters.

You just need a half millimeter worth of line of sight anyway.

 tpogs wrote:
Alright guys, help me out here.

I'm a returning player from 4th and I can't for the life of me make a 1500pt Space Marine list that I like. How the heck do you make an SM list without Guilliman that doesn't stink?

What are some of the core formations that you take in most of your lists? Do you even bother with troops? Are Scouts as superior to Tacticals as they seem?

Are there any units that you always take? Either because they're solid or just fun?

How many Lascannons should be taken in 1500 and 2000 point games?

And how in the name of the God Emperor of Mankind do I deal with freaking IG?

I just don't really understand where Space Marines get their teeth at the moment.

I'm basically going to echo jcd, but I have a few different notes. Let's just assume you're planning on filling a single Battalion, that leaves room for other detachments of allied Imperial stuff like a Conscript bubble + characters if you so desire. My most effective list so far has actually been SMs with 50 Conscripts, a Commander, Commissar, Astropath and a Vindicare and/or Eversor. Anyway, on to the marines.

HQ: As mentioned, if you're not running Rowboat, a Captain (preferably upgraded to a Chapter Master or a named Chapter Master) is basically mandatory. I prefer to take a default with the Primarch's Wrath and Chapter Master upgrade. This way I can take the Storm of Fire warlord trait for maximum dakka. A Lieutenant is also basically mandatory, again cheap and shooty with a Storm Bolter or Combi-Plasma. Melee weapons are optional, but I've honestly not found much need for them.

Troops: We need three for the Battalion, but it is worth considering not even taking a Battalion from SM if you can get CPs from another source such as Rowboat or allied detachments, I've found with our character re-rolls we don't need as many. Assuming you want the command points, three units of Scouts are generally the go-to, to use for Deep Strike protection for the rest of your army by Scouting forward and expanding the no fly zone bubble. Some people take Combi weapons and H. Bolters, others just stay plain. Personal choice here. Tacs are still meh and Ints I've found to just do nothing all game, for the most points out of all of the options. I'd rate Scouts as 1st, Tacs as a distant 2nd followed closely by Ints, as at least Tacs have two specials to do some minor damage while they're being ignored.

Big guns: Now that we've got our basics out of the way, we have a nice big chart to fill with heavy hitters. Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks are rightly feared as an EXTREMELY efficient source of dakka, with the twin Lascannon loadout also earning a place in my book. Lascannon devastators also show up on occasion, but personally I only take one squad at the most. I'd like to make sure I have a good place to deploy them in cover with good LoS and sometimes you just don't get a good spot for them, this also makes it harder to fit them into the 6" bubble from your Captain and Lieutenant. Next is the other mainstay powerhouse of tournament lists, the mighty Stormraven! The "nerf" that Stormraven based armies received doesn't really apply to just taking one or two and they are still hugely efficient units for laying down the hurt. Lastly, I like to add in a couple Contemptor Dreadnoughts with KACs and Fists, decent shooting and fills the counter charge void in lists without RG. I've also toyed around with Twin Lascannon + Twin Autocannon Venerable dreads for fire support, direct competition with Lascannon Razorbacks. They have CT, hit on 2's and have a TL Autocannon to boot, but I'm not sure it's worth the points yet. Probably meta dependent or if you've used up your transport slots already.

There was a talk about the worth of Apotecharies in other thread, and it was concluded that it is somewhat questionable. Still, a lot of people seem to like Ancients. To me it seems that Apotecharies are clearly superior of the two though. The Ancient might let your guys shoot once when they die, the Apotechary can bring them back to life and they can shoot possibly multiple times and they can heal multiwound models.

Hi guys, rather than start a whole thread for a single bit of info I thought I would just ask here, as you guys are most likely to have the answer!

I'm considering using an Imperial Knight head as part of a conversion project (possibly one of the forgeworld ones, not sure yet), but I need to know the size of the head as I'm worried it might be a bit big.

I just need the height and width really, preferably in mm.

I'd have asked in the Knights tactica, but there doesn't seem to be one! Figured this was the next most likely place :p

A quick measure of mine came up with:

3/4" tall
1/2" wide
1/2" deep

So that times 25.4 should give you your dimensions.

Edit: That is for the unmasked head by the way.


On the subject of Ancients and Apothecaries, Ancients work when the model dies and can effect a whole unit. The Apothecary needs some of the unit to survive until the next turn and can only save one model. In an edition where things die so fast, I'd take the ancient. Granted, I'm not a huge fan of either, as I get most of my killing power from vehicles.

 Crimson wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Agreed. The problem with the gravis captain is really his master-crafted power sword. It's mathematically worse than his power fist in almost any situation, so it's basically wasted, but he blows 10 points on it. If he was 20 points more than the guy with plasma pistol and fist then you might consider it - especially if he had a decent gun on his other arm. But the sword does absolutely nothing for him.

It's obviously also pretty frustrating that the standard primaris captain doesn't have access to a master-crafted sword.

Yeah, this is massively annoying. Stupid greedy Gravis Captain hogging all the good swords he doesn't even need!

The model is very cool, I enjoyed painting it, BUT:
I always take my good old Captain on Bike I built during early days of 7th, with Storm Shield, Thurnder Hammer and the mandatory twin bolter, he is still 1pts lower than the Gravis Captain but have much better movement distance, 3++ instead of 4++, same number of wounds same toughness, only 1 less attack. What a good deal
Shame that model is real good.

 Crimson wrote:
There was a talk about the worth of Apotecharies in other thread, and it was concluded that it is somewhat questionable. Still, a lot of people seem to like Ancients. To me it seems that Apotecharies are clearly superior of the two though. The Ancient might let your guys shoot once when they die, the Apotechary can bring them back to life and they can shoot possibly multiple times and they can heal multiwound models.

I's say this only applies if you are using centurions, as IMO nothing else is actually worth spending 55 points to attempt to bring back to life. The combo of cents, apothecary, and ancient seems okay, though.

 Perth wrote:
A quick measure of mine came up with:

3/4" tall
1/2" wide
1/2" deep

So that times 25.4 should give you your dimensions.

Edit: That is for the unmasked head by the way.


On the subject of Ancients and Apothecaries, Ancients work when the model dies and can effect a whole unit. The Apothecary needs some of the unit to survive until the next turn and can only save one model. In an edition where things die so fast, I'd take the ancient. Granted, I'm not a huge fan of either, as I get most of my killing power from vehicles.

Thanks I appreciate it!

Wattup party peeps! Just wanted to get critique on my current list. I really tried to listen to some of the most recent posts in this list about units that do well. The concept here is a really strong fire core with cap/lt bubble and then a large deepstrike group with Shrike, VV & lt. I was thinking of sticking the Sternguard in the raven or sneaking them in via CP where they will be needed the most in turn 1/2.



+++ Test1 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [131 PL, 1996pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Teeth of Terra

Kayvaan Shrike

Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Scout Squad
. Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Tactical Squad
. 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Tactical Squad
. 4x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Dreadnought: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

Dreadnought: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

+ Flyer +

Stormraven Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback: Twin assault cannon

Razorback: Twin assault cannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack

+ Elites +

Sternguard Veteran Squad
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Veteran Sergeant

Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Thunder hammer

Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt Pistol & Chainsword
. Veteran Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Thunder hammer

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)