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Radikus wrote:
Wattup party peeps! Just wanted to get critique on my current list. I really tried to listen to some of the most recent posts in this list about units that do well. The concept here is a really strong fire core with cap/lt bubble and then a large deepstrike group with Shrike, VV & lt. I was thinking of sticking the Sternguard in the raven or sneaking them in via CP where they will be needed the most in turn 1/2.

Swap out the VV Bolt Pistols for more Chainswords. Otherwise that looks pretty good.

I've used an apothecary in small games to good effect; having a Primaris force that turtles for the most part, making use of re-rolls from a Capt and Lt and having an apothecary to revive expensive Hellblasters and heal the Capt. has worked out well. Just last game an exocrine out of synapse was forced towards game end to shoot exclusively at my Gravis Capt with Santic Halo while other units moved to objectives free and easy, while the Apothecary behind the Capt continuously healed him. Gravis Captain has been an MVP for me in a few games, that damn power sword is such a waste though.

Radikus wrote:
Wattup party peeps! Just wanted to get critique on my current list. I really tried to listen to some of the most recent posts in this list about units that do well. The concept here is a really strong fire core with cap/lt bubble and then a large deepstrike group with Shrike, VV & lt. I was thinking of sticking the Sternguard in the raven or sneaking them in via CP where they will be needed the most in turn 1/2.

I'd look strongly at finding the points to upgrade the regular Dreadnoughts to Venerables, hitting on 2's is quite nice, especially if you're running Shrike up front as then you can't upgrade your Captain to a Master and you're stuck with only rerolling 1s.

If you're taking Tacs, they've gotta take some weapons, they're hands down the worst troop to leave barebones. The CC Lieutenant could probably use a better weapon as well.

I think you're spreading yourself a little thin, you might be better served by dropping a Dread or 5 Vanguard and sprinkling in a few upgrades. I'd also be a little concerned that all of your Lascannons are in one fairly fragile squad, going from H. Bolters to Multi-Meltas on the Stormraven might be worth it depending on your meta and how much you think you might need them.

Also, on the subject of Vanguard equipment, I actually lean the other way, I prefer dual pistols over dual chainswords with the exception of one guy to throw grenades. Lets you clear a little bubble wrap before a charge or split damage across units that aren't quite close enough to charge.

I agree on the Venerable upgrade. The added accuracy and the ability to ignore wounds just makes them so much better than a standard Dread and the upgrade isn't that expensive. I gotta say, it is quite refreshing that the Angry Washing Machine is so much better than it used to be.

Has anyone run many Plasma Devs? How do you rate them?

 tpogs wrote:
Has anyone run many Plasma Devs? How do you rate them?

Not much reason to take them over Hellblasters, IMO. Variable shots and lack of mobility hurts a lot. They do run a little cheaper, so they have that going for them.

They can also have some ablative wounds, while every casualty a Hellblaster squad takes directly affects its output.

Bremon wrote:
They can also have some ablative wounds, while every casualty a Hellblaster squad takes directly affects its output.

That's definitely true, but those points spent on ablative wounds could just go toward more Hellblasters. And Hellblasters have their ablative wounds built in. Sure, multi-damage weapons ruin that, but they are still there. Plasma Cannons have good range and one of the guys can be overcharged without risk of blowing up due to the signum. I really wish that the Hellblaster Sergeant could get a Signum, but that would decrease their output, so it is definitely a trade-off.

An exocrine smashed my Hellblasters last game. As soon as my regular opponent gets some autocannons for his death guard it will be a similar story there. The 2W also don't help when a Hellblaster overheats, which happens every game that they survive long enough, even with the captain reroll.

 tpogs wrote:
Has anyone run many Plasma Devs? How do you rate them?

I feel like the HPC is much overshadowed by tbe Grav Cannon, actually. The random shots hurts the HPC a lot, while the Grav Cannon winds up being better against nearly every type of target. The only issue is range, but the guaranteed 4 shots does plenty to make up for it. You just have to commit to using Devs more aggressively.

In range, the Grav Cannon outpaces the Lascannon against (AV 3+) vehicles, is better against elites than the HPC, and outshoots Heavy Bolters against hordes.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 tpogs wrote:
Has anyone run many Plasma Devs? How do you rate them?

I feel like the HPC is much overshadowed by tbe Grav Cannon, actually. The random shots hurts the HPC a lot, while the Grav Cannon winds up being better against nearly every type of target. The only issue is range, but the guaranteed 4 shots does plenty to make up for it. You just have to commit to using Devs more aggressively.

In range, the Grav Cannon outpaces the Lascannon against (AV 3+) vehicles, is better against elites than the HPC, and outshoots Heavy Bolters against hordes.

I actually really want to run some but all my Dev kits are older and before the grav shenanigans.

The main thing to remember for using the Plasma Cannon is making sure you use the important part of its stats:
1. You got more range than some other choices
2. Hitting 2/3 wound models if you can overcharge safely.

I want to like Plasma Cannons, but at 21 points I just can't get behind them, only 4 points to get a Lascannon!

Also 2 damage isn't where I like my damage to be, as we generally have better options as SMs for dealing 1 (Assault Cannons and to a lesser extent H. Bolters) or d6 (Lascannons).

For a Primaris Captain, what bolt rifle type should I give him? Giving him an Auto Bolt Rifle and having him run with some Aggressors or Reivers would be good, but so would giving him the Stalker and having him sitting back. I gave him the Power Sword arm, so having him sit back seems a little bit like a waste, but the Auto Bolt Rifle just doesn't do much for me.

The captain's main use is providing rerolls. Don't let his equipment distract you from letting him provide those to whichever unit is going to make the most of it.

Yep. It just doesn't matter at all what gun he has. Personally I'd go with the auto bolt rifle.

I'm going to try out some assault centurions with Pedro with my fists I think. I think I've got a list that probably justifies using an apothecary. He makes sense if there are characters to heal and expensive models to bring back from the dead.

It does need testing though as stuff dies so fast. I could swap him out for a Culexus, which might well be a better plan. I could add him to the vanguard with the reivers, librarian and assault centurions. The centurions ignore cover anyway so they don't need CTs, and I can live without it for my libby and reivers.

This is the 2k list I'm looking at. I've got it down to 6 drops by shoving loads of my guys into transports.

Battalion

Primaris Captain
Power Fist (fist of vengeance)
Plasma Pistol

Primaris Librarian
Force Sword

5 Intercessors
Power Sword
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

5 Intercessors
Power Sword
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

5 Intercessors
Power Sword
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

Vanguard

Pedro Kantor

3 Assault Centurions
3 Hurricane Bolters
4 Flamers
2 Melta Guns

7 Reivers
Pistol and sword

5 Aggressors
Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets
Fragstorm Grenade Launchers

Primaris Apothecary

Repulsor
Las Talon
Twin Lascannon
Onslaught Gatling Cannon
Three Storm Bolters
Two Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
Two Krakstorm Grenade Launchers
Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Storm Raven Gunship
Twin Plasma Cannon
Twin Multi-melta
Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers
Two Hurricane Bolters

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
For a Primaris Captain, what bolt rifle type should I give him? Giving him an Auto Bolt Rifle and having him run with some Aggressors or Reivers would be good, but so would giving him the Stalker and having him sitting back. I gave him the Power Sword arm, so having him sit back seems a little bit like a waste, but the Auto Bolt Rifle just doesn't do much for me.

The power sword is not particularly impressive, although for four points you should always still take it (I'm giving them to all my Intercessor sergeants too.) It is more of 'in case I end up in CC' weapon rather than one to specifically seek melee with. The gun depends on the unit(s) your captain is gonna provide rerolls to: are they gonna move? Usually the answer is yes, so auto bolt rifle. Though if you're playing Salamanders, then stalker is solid, with the rerolls it's reliable even if you move.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
For a Primaris Captain, what bolt rifle type should I give him? Giving him an Auto Bolt Rifle and having him run with some Aggressors or Reivers would be good, but so would giving him the Stalker and having him sitting back. I gave him the Power Sword arm, so having him sit back seems a little bit like a waste, but the Auto Bolt Rifle just doesn't do much for me.

The power sword is not particularly impressive, although for four points you should always still take it (I'm giving them to all my Intercessor sergeants too.) It is more of 'in case I end up in CC' weapon rather than one to specifically seek melee with. The gun depends on the unit(s) your captain is gonna provide rerolls to: are they gonna move? Usually the answer is yes, so auto bolt rifle. Though if you're playing Salamanders, then stalker is solid, with the rerolls it's reliable even if you move.

Probably rolling with Reivers or Aggressors, so Auto Bolt Rifle it is.

What about lascan/twin plasma guns razorbacks ?
I have two razorbacks (not fielded yet) and one is modelled like this.
I am going to order a lascan twin plasma guns turret from FW for the second one.

 godardc wrote:
What about lascan/twin plasma guns razorbacks ?
I have two razorbacks (not fielded yet) and one is modelled like this.
I am going to order a lascan twin plasma guns turret from FW for the second one.

Yeah i have about 6 modelled from 5th edition...sadly GW seems to be done with them, as they are out of the codex, and per the index the whole tank dies of you overcharge and roll a 1, which means you probably don't want to overcharge much. If they FAQed it to cause a mortal wound instead, they'd be much better.

All that being said, 4 plasma shots and a Las cannon shot isn't terrible. Mostly they just outshined by the twin assault cannon option, and not wanting to overcharge much is unfortunate.

jcd386 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
What about lascan/twin plasma guns razorbacks ?
I have two razorbacks (not fielded yet) and one is modelled like this.
I am going to order a lascan twin plasma guns turret from FW for the second one.

Yeah i have about 6 modelled from 5th edition...sadly GW seems to be done with them, as they are out of the codex, and per the index the whole tank dies of you overcharge and roll a 1, which means you probably don't want to overcharge much. If they FAQed it to cause a mortal wound instead, they'd be much better.

All that being said, 4 plasma shots and a Las cannon shot isn't terrible. Mostly they just outshined by the twin assault cannon option, and not wanting to overcharge much is unfortunate.

It doesn't matter that they aren't in the codex. You can keep using the index entry.

Plasma guns don't suffer a penalty for moving, which improves their utility a lot. But don't count on being within 12" of your target. If you are, you stand a good chance of getting charged next turn and having your shooting shut down.

Never really was too big on the LasPlas Razorbacks, and I don't think they are that good in 8th. Overcharging is a huge risk and rapid fire range will get you charged. I'd much rather just go twin Lascannons or Assault Cannons.

Twin las and twin assault cannons seem like the only reasonable Razors to me. This is made more annoying by having crusader sprues out of stock and the FW turrets, imo, are ugly. I could maybe see a case for twin heavy flamers. Las/plas is something I'd never take and belongs in the bin next to twin heavy bolters.

That's the first time I heard someone calling the FW Razor turrets ugly.

Well there's a first time for everything. Opinions and all that.

Mandragola wrote:

jcd386 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
What about lascan/twin plasma guns razorbacks ?
I have two razorbacks (not fielded yet) and one is modelled like this.
I am going to order a lascan twin plasma guns turret from FW for the second one.

Yeah i have about 6 modelled from 5th edition...sadly GW seems to be done with them, as they are out of the codex, and per the index the whole tank dies of you overcharge and roll a 1, which means you probably don't want to overcharge much. If they FAQed it to cause a mortal wound instead, they'd be much better.

All that being said, 4 plasma shots and a Las cannon shot isn't terrible. Mostly they just outshined by the twin assault cannon option, and not wanting to overcharge much is unfortunate.

It doesn't matter that they aren't in the codex. You can keep using the index entry.

Plasma guns don't suffer a penalty for moving, which improves their utility a lot. But don't count on being within 12" of your target. If you are, you stand a good chance of getting charged next turn and having your shooting shut down.

It matters in that i wouldn't expect GW to buff them to fix the overcharge issue. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Hmm just though of something

would a firebase of missile devs be good with a storm of fire trait warlord?

It certainly seems like the most obvious choice to me. If you're playing IF their WT might be worth considering as well.

 Desubot wrote:
Hmm just though of something

would a firebase of missile devs be good with a storm of fire trait warlord?

Yes and no.

Do missile devs benefit from Storm of Fire? Definitely.

Is buffing a single squad of missile devs the best way to use your Warlord? Probably not. I usually try to fit the majority of my list's killing power inside the Captain's bubble if I'm taking Storm of Fire. If all you have is a lone Dev Squad, he might be better suited to a more active role as a beatstick/countercharge unit with a different trait.

Well firebase as in more than just one unit