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A few Forge World related thoughts:
Does anyone have experience using a Damocles Command Rhino? It seems neat to have what's effectively a free Command Point every turn (Well, 72/83% of a Command Point every turn) it costs you the use of your Warlord to have him idling inside a Rhino - Encouraging you to use a cheap, worthless model as your Warlord so you aren't wasting a valuable buff or ability.

Also: I'm thinking about using Vaylund Cal for an Iron Hands themed gunline. It's impossible to match the effectiveness of Guilliman, but he gives the healing abilities of a Tech Priest while also granting the re-rolls of a Chapter Master - Something that Iron Hands don't otherwise get access to without burning a whopping 6 Command Points, which is just too cost-prohibitive to be worth it in most circumstances - Getting those re-rolls as well as the healing ability (and a ridiculously tough character with T6 and W5 on top of his 2+4++6+++, which could be buffed by the +1W/6+++ Warlord Trait if you don't want to bother going with a more buffy ability.)



Oh, and on the topic - What the heck is up with Bray'arth Ashmantle?! He's a really tough Dreadnought (T9/2+5++4+++,) and has the Character rule so he can't easily be targetted (which kinds of wastes his durability, but whatever,) but otherwise his damage output is pretty consistent with any ol' Venerable Dreadnought. (He even only gets 4 attacks, despite being equipped with two Close Combat Weapons.)
And he costs FOUR HUNDRED POINTS.

Basically, forgeworld rules and points values are all over the place. Some stuff is too good, other stuff is hilariously overpriced. For best results, cherry pick the stuff that's too good. But feel dirty for doing it.

I'm pretty sure an iron hands character would have to take the iron hands warlord trait by the way.

So I asked if the people who don't like intercessors had tried them. The answer seems to be "no", as nobody has said that they have.

If you haven't used them you won't see the benefit that they bring. To be clear, this is that they remain alive. While they don't have the output of tacticals double tapping plasma, they get to fire over and over again. It all adds up to result in quite a lot of dead stuff.

You can also charge stuff with intercessors, and they'll hurt it. It's sometimes legitimate to have them charge incoming enemy infantry, rather than let them charge you. You can't do this with tacticals or scouts because you risk them just killing you, consolidating forwards and charging other things. The toughness of intercessors means you can usually expect to do some damage and survive your turn, while holding the enemy unit in place for a turn.

And of course there are plenty of enemies that they'll just batter to death.

Waaaghpower wrote:
A few Forge World related thoughts:
Does anyone have experience using a Damocles Command Rhino? It seems neat to have what's effectively a free Command Point every turn (Well, 72/83% of a Command Point every turn) it costs you the use of your Warlord to have him idling inside a Rhino - Encouraging you to use a cheap, worthless model as your Warlord so you aren't wasting a valuable buff or ability.

Also: I'm thinking about using Vaylund Cal for an Iron Hands themed gunline. It's impossible to match the effectiveness of Guilliman, but he gives the healing abilities of a Tech Priest while also granting the re-rolls of a Chapter Master - Something that Iron Hands don't otherwise get access to without burning a whopping 6 Command Points, which is just too cost-prohibitive to be worth it in most circumstances - Getting those re-rolls as well as the healing ability (and a ridiculously tough character with T6 and W5 on top of his 2+4++6+++, which could be buffed by the +1W/6+++ Warlord Trait if you don't want to bother going with a more buffy ability.)



Oh, and on the topic - What the heck is up with Bray'arth Ashmantle?! He's a really tough Dreadnought (T9/2+5++4+++,) and has the Character rule so he can't easily be targetted (which kinds of wastes his durability, but whatever,) but otherwise his damage output is pretty consistent with any ol' Venerable Dreadnought. (He even only gets 4 attacks, despite being equipped with two Close Combat Weapons.)
And he costs FOUR HUNDRED POINTS.

Unfortunately Vaylund is going to be stuck with the gak Iron Hands Warlord Trait.

That said, it's better than nothing for us Iron Hands lovers that keep getting screwed over. Use him with a cheap Lt. to get almost the same amount of rerolls as Roboute though without the free 3 CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding FW though, I love most of the characters. They mostly do unique things to buff your army like Lias, or just flatout combat monsters like Asterion and Tyberos.

So I have played a couple of games using this final list, (after a rush of paint, so many new models)

Battallion:
1 Captain with MC Boltgun and Teeth of Terra
1 Lieutenant with MC Boltgun and Power Sword
5 Intercessors with Grenade Launcher
5 Intercessors with Grenade Launcher
5 Scouts with 4 Sniper rifles and a Heavy Bolter
6 Aggressors with the Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets
5 Devastators with Lascannons and cherub
5 Devastators with Plascannons, CombiPlas and Cherub
Razorback with Twin Lascannons

Vanguard:
Kayvan Shrike
Lieutenant with Jump Pack and Thunderhammer
10 Reivers with Combat Knives and Gravchutes
7 Vanguard Veterans, 4x Plaspistol and Power Sword, 2x Plaspistol and Storm Shield, Sarge with plaspistol and Thunder Hammer
7 Vanguard Veterans, 4x Plaspistol and Power Sword, 2x Plaspistol and Storm Shield, Sarge with plaspistol and Thunder Hammer


So the first game I played against a Chaos Berserker List and managed to win but honestly I ended pretty mauled, most things died from both sides. I think I ended with Shrike, the Captain and 3 Vanguards in each squad, while my opponent ended with a crippled Rhino and a wounded Chaos Lord.

Second game I played against a Wave Serpent/Aspect Warriors Eldar list. I survived his Alpha Strike and then delivered a hard blow. His army was crippled by turn two and all he had was some fleeing Serpents filled with Dire Avengers which I proceeded to pursue and wipe for a tabling.

Third game I played against a weak termi-based Ultras army and due to overaverage luck from my part I also tabled him. Overcharge Plasma murders termies too easily.

So what units have performed well? I play as a Hammer & Anvil Tactic. I castle up all anchors in a corner grouped up for reroll auras and wrapped with the intercessors, reivers and scouts, then when the enemy advances (I went second both turns), I drop the VV bomb behind them and ends surrounding him. To be completely honest, none of my lascannons devs have fired a single shot both games, giving up first blood. Also, my Razorback ended destroyed on the first turn first game and crippled the second game. Yet I am happy because both units have performed as a sort of Distraction Carnifex for most of my opponent's first turn. Plascannon Devs have been a star both games, wiping light tanks and transports in a turn, while my aggressors are simply ridiculous. There have not been a TURN they do not destroy what I aim them at. Intercessors and Reivers seem weak, but then again they are there to withstand the line, not do any damage, and for it they have been useful. (Reivers almost always end wiped but manage to take their weight on points, of course I also play them terribly aggro).

The Vanguard Bomb works, yet I always end in a conumdrum when I drop them. If Shrike charges first, thanks to his warlord trait, he eats up the overwatch, but then again I lose the charge rerolls for the Vanguard units, (they are left behind at 9"). So I have realized the Warlord trait usually ends wasted unless he charges solo later in the game. Both games I usually get a charge 1st turn and an overcharged fusillade of plasma that deals considerable damage (Only lost one plasma guy each game). Yet, it is important to try to descend in a good position so you can shoot at one thing and charge another, as otherwise with cunning model removal the enemy can deny your charges. (Unless you are trying to soften a tank/dread et al with shooting before charging it). I ate an entire kill shot Predator Squadron with the bomb on one game.

Things I am not convinced? The melee weapons on my "Anvil" characters. Not too many points, but I am thinking of moving the relics to another character. The Captain has the Teeth of Terra to countercharge anything coming too close, but usually the Vanguard Bomb takes that role first. I am also thinking of exchanging the Razorback with a Dread, I think given the chapter tactic the Dread might be more survivable.

Is there any way you guys can think of (respecting the "spirit" of the list), reducing drops as to get first turn? So far I have only been able to use the RG Stratagem to place speed bumps due to 12-14 drops. I'd like to be able to give something an Aggressor paintrain alpha someday. So far my opponents have ignored them first turn, I guess out of lack of experience dealing with them. By the time they try to focus them it is too late, yet my Chaos opponent said he wasn't going to let the unit come unscathed from now on.

What are your thoughts?

Honestly I'd cut your second Vanguard Lt. You have so many attacks with the Vanguard it's almost unnecessary.

First of all, id suggest playing with the upcoming first turn rules, where the players roll off for first turn, and the player who finished deploying first gets a +1. This is the future in the chapter approved, and what most large tournements are doing.

That being said, i think the only way to play RG and get first turn more often than not is to mech up and avoid dropping in too many characters. I've found 6 to 7 drops gets you first turn or the +1 most of the time as is hard to get below that. Under 10 probably gets you first about half the time.

To do this, you pretty much have to avoid primaris units, might want to take a land raider to stuff units into, or at least rhino/razorback/storm ravens, and probably can't drop more than one character, or more than one first turn in your face unit. I'm not sure this is appealing to you. Sadly SM don't have something like 20 berzerkers or electropriests to SftS on people, so i don't think we can really rely on it for the theme of our lists like chaos and admech can.

I finally played Aggressors for the first time yesterday. Only a small game (750), against Death Guard. They were killed by some combination of Smite, blight launchers and a lawnmower drone but even still...I liked them. They weren’t brilliant, and I didn’t play them as intelligently as I’m sure many of you folks would, but I definitely saw a real glimmer of potential. They’re fragile as hell but the dakka they can lay down, even on the move, is quite nice. I proxied them using inceptor minis and I’m now committed to buying a box of them.

On another note, the Ven Dread I assembled the other day hit the table and was as magnificent as I’d hoped. Twin las and twin autocannon was quite fairly flexible, and he gave my opponent some trouble for sure. He’ll likely be a staple in my lists going forward.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'd cut your second Vanguard Lt. You have so many attacks with the Vanguard it's almost unnecessary.

You mean the Lieutenant?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Unfortunately Vaylund is going to be stuck with the gak Iron Hands Warlord Trait.

That said, it's better than nothing for us Iron Hands lovers that keep getting screwed over. Use him with a cheap Lt. to get almost the same amount of rerolls as Roboute though without the free 3 CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding FW though, I love most of the characters. They mostly do unique things to buff your army like Lias, or just flatout combat monsters like Asterion and Tyberos.

Would he, though? I was under the impression that those Warlord Traits were only locked in for mainline characters. (That is, characters with the official Iron Hands keyword - Vaylund Cal is 'Sons of Medusa'.) If not, I'll just... Make my Lieutenant the Warlord or something, I guess.

 Kithail wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I'd cut your second Vanguard Lt. You have so many attacks with the Vanguard it's almost unnecessary.

You mean the Lieutenant?

Yeah. Lt. is short for Lieutenant as far as I know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaaghpower wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Unfortunately Vaylund is going to be stuck with the gak Iron Hands Warlord Trait.

That said, it's better than nothing for us Iron Hands lovers that keep getting screwed over. Use him with a cheap Lt. to get almost the same amount of rerolls as Roboute though without the free 3 CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding FW though, I love most of the characters. They mostly do unique things to buff your army like Lias, or just flatout combat monsters like Asterion and Tyberos.

Would he, though? I was under the impression that those Warlord Traits were only locked in for mainline characters. (That is, characters with the official Iron Hands keyword - Vaylund Cal is 'Sons of Medusa'.) If not, I'll just... Make my Lieutenant the Warlord or something, I guess.

Well he's an iron hands character so...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well he's an iron hands character so...

No, he's not. He's a 'Sons of Medusa' character. Iron Hands don't actually have any unique characters.

Waaaghpower wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well he's an iron hands character so...

No, he's not. He's a 'Sons of Medusa' character. Iron Hands don't actually have any unique characters.

You can technically choose any Chapter for him, as FW hasn't done a real FAQ yet on which Tactics to go. Once the tactic is selected though, named characters are locked I'm sure is how it works.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well he's an iron hands character so...

No, he's not. He's a 'Sons of Medusa' character. Iron Hands don't actually have any unique characters.

You can technically choose any Chapter for him, as FW hasn't done a real FAQ yet on which Tactics to go. Once the tactic is selected though, named characters are locked I'm sure is how it works.

I'm not so sure about that. The wording for Chapter Tactics and Strategems is as such:
"If your Chapter does not have an associated Chapter Tactic/Strategem, use the Chapter Tactic/Strategem of its founding Chapter"

The wording for Warlord Traits is:
"If a named character is your Warlord, they must be given the associated Warlord Trait of their Chapter."

So, if I'm playing Sons of Medusa, I don't 'Count as' Iron Hands or anything, I just use some of their rules. There is no associated Warlord Trait for Sons of Medusa.
(Incedentally, I'm fairly certain that Sons of Medusa CAN'T take the Iron Hands Relic, because I don't see any exemption for succesor chapters under 'Relics' while those exemptions exist for CTs and Strategems.)

Waaaghpower wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well he's an iron hands character so...

No, he's not. He's a 'Sons of Medusa' character. Iron Hands don't actually have any unique characters.

You can technically choose any Chapter for him, as FW hasn't done a real FAQ yet on which Tactics to go. Once the tactic is selected though, named characters are locked I'm sure is how it works.

I'm not so sure about that. The wording for Chapter Tactics and Strategems is as such:
"If your Chapter does not have an associated Chapter Tactic/Strategem, use the Chapter Tactic/Strategem of its founding Chapter"

The wording for Warlord Traits is:
"If a named character is your Warlord, they must be given the associated Warlord Trait of their Chapter."

So, if I'm playing Sons of Medusa, I don't 'Count as' Iron Hands or anything, I just use some of their rules. There is no associated Warlord Trait for Sons of Medusa.
(Incedentally, I'm fairly certain that Sons of Medusa CAN'T take the Iron Hands Relic, because I don't see any exemption for succesor chapters under 'Relics' while those exemptions exist for CTs and Strategems.)

I'm thinking we are gonna need an FAQ, but I'm guaranteeing it's gonna go the way I'm thinking it will. That is, unless FW elects to give them individual traits.

Seems like RAI vs RAW. I can see waaaghpower’s point of view but I agree with slayer-fan.

RAW, FW successor chapters can't even take the chapter specific codex warlord traits if they wanted to. There would have to be a rules blurb specifically allowing that like there is for chapter tactics, relics, and strategems.

They can pick from the standard 6, though, since they are still adeptus astartes.

What RAI is seems unclear, since it almost seems specifically left out. Hopefully FW will get around to clearing that sort of thing up at some point.

Speaking of FW, I'm looking for feedback on something I've been kinda cooking up. It'll look weird but it's kinda cool.

Battalion: Astral Claws
x1 Lugft Huron (Warlord)
x1 Lieutenant
. Power Fist, The Primarch's Wrath

x5 Intercessors
. Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. Grenade Launcher
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma

x3 Razorbacks
. All Assault Cannons

x1 Whirlwind Scorpius

Vanguard Detachment: Raptors
x1 Lias Issodon

x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons

8 Total Command Points

So there's a lot going on with this list. The main idea is an ultra alpha strike. Sternguard aren't too hot unless they can be dropped off, and Lias basically acts as 3 Drop Pods for them to be close and get at the screens that might be an issue, or after meatier targets with the Grav Cannons. I pretty much don't expect anything on this side of the list to live until the end of the game, save MAYBE Lias and his cover camping pansy ass.

Meanwhile, we all know how coolio Twin Assault Cannons are against most targets, so they will do what they do and get as close as possible T1, while the Scorpius does sorta the same thing, though not needing as much of the closeness (and can even just completely out of site, as it doesn't need LOS itself). Huron strikes in as necessary to give them his aura, and the Lieutenant runs as fast as he can to keep up and do the same thing.
Intercessors will be a screen near the back of those guys and try to prompt and tease potential Strikers from the rear. They require more effort to kill off, which means they can fire back and assault, and/or one of the two HQ's of that section and walk up and hit them with their fists.
Scouts are simple screens either for everyone else or kept safe to camp an objective, depending on how I think the opponent will operate. If the opponent is a coward and camping, they can be relatively safe as the opponent won't likely try to go after them and rather the Sternguard, which means getting in ASAP, shooting, and charging and potentially tarpitting (which won't be as much an issue with Conscripts anymore, seeing that Orders aren't automatic for them). If the opponent is rushing me, they're serviceable as a screen.

So obviously there will be list critiques, but my other question is what Chapter Tactics to use for the Astral Claws? For a shooting line with vehicles, it won't matter much, but will the rest of the Infantry just be better under Raven Guard like the Raptors would do, or is there potential with another Chapter Tactic I'm missing? Also, since there are even people pointing out that RAW these characters can't even pick the Chapter Warlord traits...which one is right for Huron? Storm Of Fire is the obvious pick, unless I'm picking Iron Resolve to make Slay The Warlord slightly harder.

There were lots of talks about two pistols vv when the codex (or was it the index ?) dropped out.
What is the consensus,

now ? I've been considering playing a
little squad of 6 with two plasma pistols each.
It isn't expensive, and when overheated it can destroy a termi squad/a rhino a turn. It seems like a good alpha strike.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Speaking of FW,
I'm looking for feedback on something I've been kinda cooking up. It'll look weird but it's kinda cool.

Battalion: Astral Claws
x1 Lugft Huron (Warlord)
x1 Lieutenant
. Power Fist, The Primarch's Wrath

x5 Intercessors
. Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. Grenade Launcher
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma

x3 Razorbacks
. All Assault Cannons

x1 Whirlwind Scorpius

Vanguard Detachment: Raptors
x1 Lias Issodon

x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons

8 Total Command Points

So there's a lot going on with this list. The main idea is an ultra alpha strike. Sternguard aren't too hot unless they can be dropped off, and Lias basically acts as 3 Drop Pods for them to be close and get at the screens that might be an issue, or after meatier targets with the Grav Cannons. I pretty much don't expect anything on this side of the list to live until the end of the game, save MAYBE Lias and his cover camping pansy ass.

Meanwhile, we all know how coolio Twin Assault Cannons are against most targets, so they will do what they do and get as close as possible T1, while the Scorpius does sorta the same thing, though not needing as much of the closeness (and can even just completely out of site, as it doesn't need LOS itself). Huron strikes in as necessary to give them his aura, and the Lieutenant runs as fast as he can to keep up and do the same thing.
Intercessors will be a screen near the back of those guys and try to prompt and tease potential Strikers from the rear. They require more effort to kill off, which means they can fire back and assault, and/or one of the two HQ's of that section and walk up and hit them with their fists.
Scouts are simple screens either for everyone else or kept safe to camp an objective, depending on how I think the opponent will operate. If the opponent is a coward and camping, they can be relatively safe as the opponent won't likely try to go after them and rather the Sternguard, which means getting in ASAP, shooting, and charging and potentially tarpitting (which won't be as much an issue with Conscripts anymore, seeing that Orders aren't automatic for them). If the opponent is rushing me, they're serviceable as a screen.

So obviously there will be list critiques, but my other question is what Chapter Tactics to use for the Astral Claws? For a shooting line with vehicles, it won't matter much, but will the rest of the Infantry just be better under Raven Guard like the Raptors would do, or is there potential with another Chapter Tactic I'm missing? Also, since there are even people pointing out that RAW these characters can't even pick the Chapter Warlord traits...which one is right for Huron? Storm Of Fire is the obvious pick, unless I'm picking Iron Resolve to make Slay The Warlord slightly harder.

Lufgt Huron with primaris marines ?^^

Sure. My character isn't actually Lugft himself but gonna be a dude with one of those cool looking Lightning Claws from that FW Raven Guard special unit Sergeant and a flamer. It'll work just fine.

If you think that's gonna get too many eyerolls I can just use more Scouts.

 godardc wrote:
There were lots of talks about two pistols vv when the codex (or was it the index ?) dropped out.
What is the consensus,

now ? I've been considering playing a
little squad of 6 with two plasma pistols each.
It isn't expensive, and when overheated it can destroy a termi squad/a rhino a turn. It seems like a good alpha strike.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Speaking of FW,
I'm looking for feedback on something I've been kinda cooking up. It'll look weird but it's kinda cool.

Battalion: Astral Claws
x1 Lugft Huron (Warlord)
x1 Lieutenant
. Power Fist, The Primarch's Wrath

x5 Intercessors
. Grenade Launcher
x5 Intercessors
. Grenade Launcher
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma
x5 Scouts
. 4 Shotguns, Combi-Plasma

x3 Razorbacks
. All Assault Cannons

x1 Whirlwind Scorpius

Vanguard Detachment: Raptors
x1 Lias Issodon

x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons
x8 Sternguard
. 6 SI Bolters, 2 Grav Cannons

8 Total Command Points

So there's a lot going on with this list. The main idea is an ultra alpha strike. Sternguard aren't too hot unless they can be dropped off, and Lias basically acts as 3 Drop Pods for them to be close and get at the screens that might be an issue, or after meatier targets with the Grav Cannons. I pretty much don't expect anything on this side of the list to live until the end of the game, save MAYBE Lias and his cover camping pansy ass.

Meanwhile, we all know how coolio Twin Assault Cannons are against most targets, so they will do what they do and get as close as possible T1, while the Scorpius does sorta the same thing, though not needing as much of the closeness (and can even just completely out of site, as it doesn't need LOS itself). Huron strikes in as necessary to give them his aura, and the Lieutenant runs as fast as he can to keep up and do the same thing.
Intercessors will be a screen near the back of those guys and try to prompt and tease potential Strikers from the rear. They require more effort to kill off, which means they can fire back and assault, and/or one of the two HQ's of that section and walk up and hit them with their fists.
Scouts are simple screens either for everyone else or kept safe to camp an objective, depending on how I think the opponent will operate. If the opponent is a coward and camping, they can be relatively safe as the opponent won't likely try to go after them and rather the Sternguard, which means getting in ASAP, shooting, and charging and potentially tarpitting (which won't be as much an issue with Conscripts anymore, seeing that Orders aren't automatic for them). If the opponent is rushing me, they're serviceable as a screen.

So obviously there will be list critiques, but my other question is what Chapter Tactics to use for the Astral Claws? For a shooting line with vehicles, it won't matter much, but will the rest of the Infantry just be better under Raven Guard like the Raptors would do, or is there potential with another Chapter Tactic I'm missing? Also, since there are even people pointing out that RAW these characters can't even pick the Chapter Warlord traits...which one is right for Huron? Storm Of Fire is the obvious pick, unless I'm picking Iron Resolve to make Slay The Warlord slightly harder.

Lufgt Huron with primaris marines ?^^

They're good, but other things are just gooder. A G man castle is better. If you can deployment cheese with raven guard (and Lias). you need that drop in less as your shooters are up close anyways, and so you have more incentive to make a good anti light infantry unit (dual chainswords).

Whats the consensus on Spartan Assault Tanks? Similar firepower to Terminus Ultra but much more survivable. Not to mention it can transport a bunch of stuff and crushing tracks are a thing.

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Whats the consensus on Spartan Assault Tanks? Similar firepower to Terminus Ultra but much more survivable. Not to mention it can transport a bunch of stuff and crushing tracks are a thing.

Only downside is that they use up a detachment all to themselves, and you can't take more than one. My Spartan is pretty great. If I actually had stuff I wanted to transport inside it, I'd use it in just about every game.
(Heck, if you're planning on taking two Predators, you can spend an extra hundred points and get a durability bump, mobile firing, and 25 free slots to reduce drops and help get first turn.)

Waaaghpower wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Whats the consensus on Spartan Assault Tanks? Similar firepower to Terminus Ultra but much more survivable. Not to mention it can transport a bunch of stuff and crushing tracks are a thing.

Only downside is that they use up a detachment all to themselves, and you can't take more than one. My Spartan is pretty great. If I actually had stuff I wanted to transport inside it, I'd use it in just about every game.
(Heck, if you're planning on taking two Predators, you can spend an extra hundred points and get a durability bump, mobile firing, and 25 free slots to reduce drops and help get first turn.)

Truth. Its a shame the Lord of War detachment has a minimum 3 unit requirement

 bobsmith7777 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Whats the consensus on Spartan Assault Tanks? Similar firepower to Terminus Ultra but much more survivable. Not to mention it can transport a bunch of stuff and crushing tracks are a thing.

Only downside is that they use up a detachment all to themselves, and you can't take more than one. My Spartan is pretty great. If I actually had stuff I wanted to transport inside it, I'd use it in just about every game.
(Heck, if you're planning on taking two Predators, you can spend an extra hundred points and get a durability bump, mobile firing, and 25 free slots to reduce drops and help get first turn.)

Truth. Its a shame the Lord of War detachment has a minimum 3 unit requirement

Well yes, but also, because of the 'Relic' rule, you would actually need FOUR Lords of War if you wanted to take two Spartans.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Whats the consensus on Spartan Assault Tanks? Similar firepower to Terminus Ultra but much more survivable. Not to mention it can transport a bunch of stuff and crushing tracks are a thing.

Only downside is that they use up a detachment all to themselves, and you can't take more than one. My Spartan is pretty great. If I actually had stuff I wanted to transport inside it, I'd use it in just about every game.
(Heck, if you're planning on taking two Predators, you can spend an extra hundred points and get a durability bump, mobile firing, and 25 free slots to reduce drops and help get first turn.)

Truth. Its a shame the Lord of War detachment has a minimum 3 unit requirement

Well yes, but also, because of the 'Relic' rule, you would actually need FOUR Lords of War if you wanted to take two Spartans.

Yea I'm aware of that restriction. Was just meaning to say that if it was a minimum 2 unit LoW detachment, I would be content with Bobby G + some relic in a +3CP detachment.

 bobsmith7777 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Whats the consensus on Spartan Assault Tanks? Similar firepower to Terminus Ultra but much more survivable. Not to mention it can transport a bunch of stuff and crushing tracks are a thing.

Only downside is that they use up a detachment all to themselves, and you can't take more than one. My Spartan is pretty great. If I actually had stuff I wanted to transport inside it, I'd use it in just about every game.
(Heck, if you're planning on taking two Predators, you can spend an extra hundred points and get a durability bump, mobile firing, and 25 free slots to reduce drops and help get first turn.)

Truth. Its a shame the Lord of War detachment has a minimum 3 unit requirement

Well yes, but also, because of the 'Relic' rule, you would actually need FOUR Lords of War if you wanted to take two Spartans.

Yea I'm aware of that restriction. Was just meaning to say that if it was a minimum 2 unit LoW detachment, I would be content with Bobby G + some relic in a +3CP detachment.

The command detachment is an option. The Spartan doesn't get CTs so you can have some soup hqs if you want. It's not a bad way to get a Culexus and Greyfax into your list, for example.

Howdy! I'm a new, returning (3rd-5th vet) player and I'll definitely be playing Crimson Fists. I started them ~18 years ago, when they were on the codex cover , and I'm more concerned with my army's overall fluff / theme, rather than worrying about using the "best" chapter tactics / strategem. Perhaps age & D&D have changed my wargaming mentality.

I want to build my lists around a decent amount of Primaris Marines, as I really like the models and this make sense to me given Guilliman returned and bolstered the chapter's ranks with them. I've started my collection with two Space Marine halves of the Dark Imperium set. Essentially, I'm looking at starting with something like:
Pedro Kantor
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Lieutenant (with Power Sword?)
2x5 Intercessors w/ Bolt Rifles + Grenade Launcher
2x5 Scouts w/ Shotguns
2x5 Hellblasters w/ Plasma Incinerators

From there, I'm currently debating whether I want to add some Sternguard, Devastators, or vehicles!

Also, as I've been considering options, I've come up with the following questions so far:
1) How're people liking the Primaris HQ / Elite options vs. their regular Marine counterparts? As an example, I think I specifically want to take a Primaris Lieutenant, even though he's a few more points. Similarly, I think I want to use the new Primaris Librarian too.
2) Speaking of which, how are people feeling about Librarians this edition?
3) Is it worth upgrading Sergeants with options like Power Swords / Combi-weapons? I feel like this isn't something I'd prioritize with list-building. If I have extra points? Sure.
4) It looks like Razorbacks / Predators are still very viable. How do you weigh these vs. more boots on the ground? How much of either option is too much?
5) I quit at the advent of 6th, so I didn't have a lot of exposure to flyers / tanks / Imperial Knights / etc. If I'm taking a good amount of heavy weapons, something like 10 Hellblasters and a Devastator squad, do I need to be overly worried about these types of options?

Thanks! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I play more.

 Wolf 11x wrote:
Howdy! I'm a new, returning (3rd-5th vet) player and I'll definitely be playing Crimson Fists. I started them ~18 years ago, when they were on the codex cover , and I'm more concerned with my army's overall fluff / theme, rather than worrying about using the "best" chapter tactics / strategem. Perhaps age & D&D have changed my wargaming mentality.

I want to build my lists around a decent amount of Primaris Marines, as I really like the models and this make sense to me given Guilliman returned and bolstered the chapter's ranks with them. I've started my collection with two Space Marine halves of the Dark Imperium set. Essentially, I'm looking at starting with something like:
Pedro Kantor
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Lieutenant (with Power Sword?)
2x5 Intercessors w/ Bolt Rifles + Grenade Launcher
2x5 Scouts w/ Shotguns
2x5 Hellblasters w/ Plasma Incinerators

From there, I'm currently debating whether I want to add some Sternguard, Devastators, or vehicles!

Also, as I've been considering options, I've come up with the following questions so far:
1) How're people liking the Primaris HQ / Elite options vs. their regular Marine counterparts? As an example, I think I specifically want to take a Primaris Lieutenant, even though he's a few more points. Similarly, I think I want to use the new Primaris Librarian too.
2) Speaking of which, how are people feeling about Librarians this edition?
3) Is it worth upgrading Sergeants with options like Power Swords / Combi-weapons? I feel like this isn't something I'd prioritize with list-building. If I have extra points? Sure.
4) It looks like Razorbacks / Predators are still very viable. How do you weigh these vs. more boots on the ground? How much of either option is too much?
5) I quit at the advent of 6th, so I didn't have a lot of exposure to flyers / tanks / Imperial Knights / etc. If I'm taking a good amount of heavy weapons, something like 10 Hellblasters and a Devastator squad, do I need to be overly worried about these types of options?

Thanks! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I play more.

1. Not having the same access to wargear options kinda sucks. Been a big fan of the relic blade + plas pistol combo on captains, though for lieuts the difference isnt that big.
2. Smite spam is good, but Librarians don't give that. Some of the buffs from the psychic powers list is alright I guess.
3. Very worthwhile.
4. Lascannon Predators are decent anti-tank option. Razorbacks are mostly there to ensure your boots on the ground don't get blown up instantly and for the Assault Cannon for anti-horde. Keep in mind most transports outside of a few FW tanks and the Repulsor cannot transport Primaris Marines.
5. People have had decent success with Hellblasters, but getting them in range can be an issue depending on what you play against. Your list should include a decent number of Lascannons if you expect to play against vehicle-heavy lists often.

 Wolf 11x wrote:
Howdy! I'm a new, returning (3rd-5th vet) player and I'll definitely be playing Crimson Fists. I started them ~18 years ago, when they were on the codex cover , and I'm more concerned with my army's overall fluff / theme, rather than worrying about using the "best" chapter tactics / strategem. Perhaps age & D&D have changed my wargaming mentality.

I want to build my lists around a decent amount of Primaris Marines, as I really like the models and this make sense to me given Guilliman returned and bolstered the chapter's ranks with them. I've started my collection with two Space Marine halves of the Dark Imperium set. Essentially, I'm looking at starting with something like:
Pedro Kantor
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Lieutenant (with Power Sword?)
2x5 Intercessors w/ Bolt Rifles + Grenade Launcher
2x5 Scouts w/ Shotguns
2x5 Hellblasters w/ Plasma Incinerators

From there, I'm currently debating whether I want to add some Sternguard, Devastators, or vehicles!

Also, as I've been considering options, I've come up with the following questions so far:
1) How're people liking the Primaris HQ / Elite options vs. their regular Marine counterparts? As an example, I think I specifically want to take a Primaris Lieutenant, even though he's a few more points. Similarly, I think I want to use the new Primaris Librarian too.
2) Speaking of which, how are people feeling about Librarians this edition?
3) Is it worth upgrading Sergeants with options like Power Swords / Combi-weapons? I feel like this isn't something I'd prioritize with list-building. If I have extra points? Sure.
4) It looks like Razorbacks / Predators are still very viable. How do you weigh these vs. more boots on the ground? How much of either option is too much?
5) I quit at the advent of 6th, so I didn't have a lot of exposure to flyers / tanks / Imperial Knights / etc. If I'm taking a good amount of heavy weapons, something like 10 Hellblasters and a Devastator squad, do I need to be overly worried about these types of options?

Thanks! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I play more.

The primaris librarian is a flat upgrade over a standard librarian, same points for better performance. But he can't come is termie or jump back version, limiting his role a bit. Regular lieutenants I rate higher than primaris lts, for reason of cost. They are never going to be amazing, so that powersword is wasted. Primaris captains are alright if you do not need mobility. Same with the chaplain version. The primaris elite options are all underwhelming outside the banner and I like the apothecary, but you den take him standard. Reivers just don't pull their weight. Aggressors have a place in shenanigans lists though

Primarus have better base stats but have absolutly no options.

that is their shtick.

the regular variants gain access to mobility, and weapon options up the wazoo and better transports. having more combi plasmas shooting instead of just a generic bolter would be nice on occasion. otherwise you keep them cheaper by going stock.