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 ThePie wrote:
Is Sergant Chronus any good, and if so, which vwhicle and loadout is best for him?

Need a 4th HQ for a primarly space marine army with 2 batallions, and since he hides in his vehicle it fits the primaris theme better.

So far im using a primaris captain and librarian in the first batallion and a primaris lieutenant in the second

Simply put if your taking a tank anyway he is the cheapest HQ choice available.
A predator is the obvious choice, while a land radier is a hard nut to crack its too many points if your not using it as a transport. As to load out, that depends on how many points you have and what you face. Personally I am a fan of a mixed loadout either twinlas and heavy bolters or autcannon and lascannons.

The Predator can easily be taken out in one turn. The landraider is much more survivable.

Its also much easier to hide a predator out of LOS than a landraider.
Their isn't much in the game that can't be one turn killed in eighth edition. Assuming anything will make it out of turn one requires having 2 or more of them in your list, or the ability to deepstrike.

Land Raiders are also insanely overcosted.

I don’t think there is a bad tank for Chonos these days. I’d not go out of my way to include a tank I wasn’t planning on, just for him to ride in. Just stick him on top of one that fits your needs.

It used to be that putting him in a tank with a lot of TL’d guns was a bit of a waste, as the re-roll to hit made his BS a little less relevant. Less of an issue now. I guess Hunters and LRRs would get a little less out of him. The fact that he always hits on a 2+ regardless of wounds taken helps pretty much everything but the Redeemer with it’s auto-hit flamestorms.

Healing a wound each turn would work better in tougher tanks, as their wounds are going to be worth “more” and they are more likely to survive to be healed. But that’s relatively minor.

One of the Sicarans or a Whirlwind variant would be best for him. Could you imagine him in a blasted Scorpius?

He's not allowed to comand a sicaran as codex only no forgeworld. I know kind of annoying. If this has bern FAQ'd I'd love that but I dont think it has. The scorpious is still a whirlwond so should be legal but depends as it's mixing and matching books.

No matter what tanks he is commanding, once any enemy chaff charge and touched the hull, the whole overcosted expensive thing is As Good As DEAD.

Not getting the Chapter Tactic for tanks hurts...

So, eventually I bought some scout bikers (they had been out of stock for months !). After some bad experiences, I now consider Space Marines to be almost purely defensive, and their assault units to be subpar at best, totally unplayable at worse.

I made a new "castle" list, I didn't want to play castle when 8th dropped but I have no other choice with SM.


Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines
Chapter master with shield eternal, terminator armour and thunder hammer
Lieutnant with master crafted boltgun and power axe

4 company veterans with chainswords and stormbolters

5 scouts with boltguns
5 scouts with shotguns/bolt pistols and combat knife
6 scouts 1 heavy bolter 5 sniper rifles

10 tactical combiplasma, plasma and heavy bolter
10 tactical combiplasma, plasma and heavy bolter

6 scout bikers with twin-linked bolters and shotguns

6 devastator marines with 4 missile-launchers

1 predator with predator autocannon, lascannon and hk
1 predator with predator autocannon, lascannon and hk

1 stormraven with lascannons, hurricane bolters, stormstrike missiles and heavy bolters

1 rhino with 2 stormbolters
1 rhino with 2 stormbolters

I think the list is pretty straightforward, let me know if you need any further information to comment it !

If you want to castle what's the point of Tactical Marines? They get less heavy weapons for the points.

Ice_can wrote:
He's not allowed to comand a sicaran as codex only no forgeworld. I know kind of annoying. If this has bern FAQ'd I'd love that but I dont think it has. The scorpious is still a whirlwond so should be legal but depends as it's mixing and matching books.

If only he could take the helm of a Repulsor. The thing about a landraider or Vindi is a Libby can buff it up to T9.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you want to castle what's the point of Tactical Marines? They get less heavy weapons for the points.

I need units to go and capture the objectives, and until this very momebt, I thought that with 3 heavy support choices I had filled all my choices, but... We are in 8th now ! I have 6 choices !
HoweverI want to keep at least a little fluff in my army, and tactical squad are the only ones who never disappointed me. They always do something good before dying.

 godardc wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you want to castle what's the point of Tactical Marines? They get less heavy weapons for the points.

I need units to go and capture the objectives, and until this very momebt, I thought that with 3 heavy support choices I had filled all my choices, but... We are in 8th now ! I have 6 choices !
HoweverI want to keep at least a little fluff in my army, and tactical squad are the only ones who never disappointed me. They always do something good before dying.

Then if you want to move forward buy more Scouts.

With Tau out, crons out and DE (or duthkari or whatever made up word they are using nowa days) is there any hope?

At first dark reapers made me shelve my marines and now I just look at all the cool stuff other armies are getting and can't wrap my head around why we are so terrible.

Is this just "the grass is always greener" syndrome or does anyone else feel like this? Hell even DA, BA and custodes are more interesting and more powerful than anything I can put together from our dex.

Should I just repaint all of my Templars to BA/DA (maybe save a couple of them to turn into SW when that dex comes out) or is there something I'm missing? Maybe there are more primarchs waiting out there to make us competitive but I just can't figure out what GW was thinking. Is it as simple as they have they sold enough marines and are pushing other army sales or is there some component of army construction that the community just hasn't figured out yet?

Looking at recent results either you are running guilliman and fire raptors or aren't going better than 4-2 at any competitive tournament. ITC format really hurts marines through secondaries and end of turn scoring that favors hordes and we just don't have enough killing/staying power for any other mission types I've seen.

Termies are terrible
Our tanks are made of paper and can't move/shoot
Tacs are over-costed
Hellblasters are out-shot by other good shooters, have no transport options and are too expensive
Aggressors only shine if they don't move
Inceptors need guilliman to be efficient compared to other armies deepstrike shooting (both bolt and plasma and DA does the plasma ones so much better)
LOL centurions
Sternguard actually shoot better with storm-bolters...
Vanguard vets don't have enough attacks/cost too much
Dreads negative to hit for heavy weapons really hurts against -1 to hit armies, t7 3+ is not tough in the current meta.
StormTalons got hurt by the AC nerf + are over costed (DA dark talons are so much better especially w/ a dark shroud)
Land raiders are like 100 points over-costed and there's nothing worth transporting in them
Helbrecht only giving +1 str to models w/in when a common blood angel chaplin give that to all UNITS w/in
Chappy grim only gives exploding 6's while sanguinor is over there giving +1 attacks
I could keep going but that's just the first couple shelves of my collection...

It isn't just you. The codex is super uninspired with poor internal balance, and we are stupidly reliant on Special Characters for anything (outside the Lt.)
Even CSM is better designed and that's got a host of a bunch of other issues.

Its not just a marine issue even choas marines are falling more and more out of the meta and they have cultists to take up the guardsmen meat shielding job in the troop slot.
Basically despite GW's promise of most balanced issue ever, power creep became way apparent when the AM and eldar codex's dropped. To be fair only alitoc has remained feeling super broken since newer codex's have dropped but marines are only viable with gimic builds now.

Pray to the Emperor and all the Primarchs, have fingers crossed to hope that:
1. the CA 2018 come out soon; and
2. the dream of having 10ppm for Tactical Marines, Assault Marines, Devastator Marines, 9ppm Scout. 14ppm Sternguard and Vanguard. 55pts Droppod and Rhinos. Chapter Tactic apply on all marine units will all come true in the CA 2018. LOL, then we can make Space Marine strong again!!

bananathug wrote:
With Tau out, crons out and DE (or duthkari or whatever made up word they are using nowa days) is there any hope?

At first dark reapers made me shelve my marines and now I just look at all the cool stuff other armies are getting and can't wrap my head around why we are so terrible.

Is this just "the grass is always greener" syndrome or does anyone else feel like this? Hell even DA, BA and custodes are more interesting and more powerful than anything I can put together from our dex.

Should I just repaint all of my Templars to BA/DA (maybe save a couple of them to turn into SW when that dex comes out) or is there something I'm missing? Maybe there are more primarchs waiting out there to make us competitive but I just can't figure out what GW was thinking. Is it as simple as they have they sold enough marines and are pushing other army sales or is there some component of army construction that the community just hasn't figured out yet?
...

Thas one of the major problems with Marines - because of all the super special versions of them the generic ones have to be weaker or the super special ones are not.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Pray to the Emperor and all the Primarchs, have fingers crossed to hope that:
1. the CA 2018 come out soon; and
2. the dream of having 10ppm for Tactical Marines, Assault Marines, Devastator Marines, 9ppm Scout. 14ppm Sternguard and Vanguard. 55pts Droppod and Rhinos. Chapter Tactic apply on all marine units will all come true in the CA 2018. LOL, then we can make Space Marine strong again!!

You forgot #MakeMarinesViable

How do you equip your scouts and why ? Shotguns, bolters, bolt pistols ?

Bolt pistols on mine, since i have them midfield humping los blocking terrain as hard as possible near an objective. If someone weakened gets close and/or they are forgotten about, they can hop around and cause some havoc.

I stick with Shotguns personally. Being able to advance and fire is pretty nice on the first turn when you need to cover even MORE ground.

bananathug wrote:
With Tau out, crons out and DE (or duthkari or whatever made up word they are using nowa days) is there any hope?

At first dark reapers made me shelve my marines and now I just look at all the cool stuff other armies are getting and can't wrap my head around why we are so terrible.

Is this just "the grass is always greener" syndrome or does anyone else feel like this? Hell even DA, BA and custodes are more interesting and more powerful than anything I can put together from our dex.

Should I just repaint all of my Templars to BA/DA (maybe save a couple of them to turn into SW when that dex comes out) or is there something I'm missing? Maybe there are more primarchs waiting out there to make us competitive but I just can't figure out what GW was thinking. Is it as simple as they have they sold enough marines and are pushing other army sales or is there some component of army construction that the community just hasn't figured out yet?

Looking at recent results either you are running guilliman and fire raptors or aren't going better than 4-2 at any competitive tournament. ITC format really hurts marines through secondaries and end of turn scoring that favors hordes and we just don't have enough killing/staying power for any other mission types I've seen.

Termies are terrible
Our tanks are made of paper and can't move/shoot
Tacs are over-costed
Hellblasters are out-shot by other good shooters, have no transport options and are too expensive
Aggressors only shine if they don't move
Inceptors need guilliman to be efficient compared to other armies deepstrike shooting (both bolt and plasma and DA does the plasma ones so much better)
LOL centurions
Sternguard actually shoot better with storm-bolters...
Vanguard vets don't have enough attacks/cost too much
Dreads negative to hit for heavy weapons really hurts against -1 to hit armies, t7 3+ is not tough in the current meta.
StormTalons got hurt by the AC nerf + are over costed (DA dark talons are so much better especially w/ a dark shroud)
Land raiders are like 100 points over-costed and there's nothing worth transporting in them
Helbrecht only giving +1 str to models w/in when a common blood angel chaplin give that to all UNITS w/in
Chappy grim only gives exploding 6's while sanguinor is over there giving +1 attacks
I could keep going but that's just the first couple shelves of my collection...

I take exception to this!

Marines aren't worse than custodes

3 Shield captains on jetbikes still being a imperial soup ingredient disagrees with you.
I haven't seen any vanilla marine components to imperial soup lists in the top lists coming from tournaments

No boltguns scouts ? I am interested because I am to model 10 scouts tuesday

 godardc wrote:
No boltguns scouts ? I am interested because I am to model 10 scouts tuesday

There's no point to Bolters.

stratigo wrote:

bananathug wrote:
With Tau out, crons out and DE (or duthkari or whatever made up word they are using nowa days) is there any hope?

At first dark reapers made me shelve my marines and now I just look at all the cool stuff other armies are getting and can't wrap my head around why we are so terrible.

Is this just "the grass is always greener" syndrome or does anyone else feel like this? Hell even DA, BA and custodes are more interesting and more powerful than anything I can put together from our dex.

Should I just repaint all of my Templars to BA/DA (maybe save a couple of them to turn into SW when that dex comes out) or is there something I'm missing? Maybe there are more primarchs waiting out there to make us competitive but I just can't figure out what GW was thinking. Is it as simple as they have they sold enough marines and are pushing other army sales or is there some component of army construction that the community just hasn't figured out yet?

Looking at recent results either you are running guilliman and fire raptors or aren't going better than 4-2 at any competitive tournament. ITC format really hurts marines through secondaries and end of turn scoring that favors hordes and we just don't have enough killing/staying power for any other mission types I've seen.

Termies are terrible
Our tanks are made of paper and can't move/shoot
Tacs are over-costed
Hellblasters are out-shot by other good shooters, have no transport options and are too expensive
Aggressors only shine if they don't move
Inceptors need guilliman to be efficient compared to other armies deepstrike shooting (both bolt and plasma and DA does the plasma ones so much better)
LOL centurions
Sternguard actually shoot better with storm-bolters...
Vanguard vets don't have enough attacks/cost too much
Dreads negative to hit for heavy weapons really hurts against -1 to hit armies, t7 3+ is not tough in the current meta.
StormTalons got hurt by the AC nerf + are over costed (DA dark talons are so much better especially w/ a dark shroud)
Land raiders are like 100 points over-costed and there's nothing worth transporting in them
Helbrecht only giving +1 str to models w/in when a common blood angel chaplin give that to all UNITS w/in
Chappy grim only gives exploding 6's while sanguinor is over there giving +1 attacks
I could keep going but that's just the first couple shelves of my collection...

I take exception to this!

Marines aren't worse than custodes

depends how you define worse or not. Custodes do one or two things and they do it better then ANYONE.

Custodes are highly survivable and the best codex period for melee plus they have the best strategems. Get them stuck in and it’s game over.

 Primark G wrote:
Custodes are highly survivable and the best codex period for melee plus they have the best strategems. Get them stuck in and it’s game over.

Custodes are quite tough against traditional attacks, and are very deadly when engaged against LOW TOUGHNESS units WITHOUT a decent inv saves or mobility.

Thus, although I agree that they are strong. I really doubt their capability in handling the real cheesy stuffs, like Flyrant spams or Flying Daemon Princes spam. Imo, those golden warriors that is fast enough to catch them lack real punch (5 Attacks with S6 D3D rerolling to hit and to wound rolls can only do average 3W on a flyrant), while those guys who can dush out a real serious hurt on those monsters cannot catch them after they arrived on ground (as anyone who can carry an Axe only moves 6").

Hell, actually, when facing Flyrant spam or DP spam, both Marines and Custodes are gonna to die like guardsmen because of the MW spam. And those kind of army can throw 20+ MW at you each turn, unless smite beta rule become official. Nowadays whenever I know I might face psychic heavy, I'd rather to spare 600+pts to bring in a "overcosted" GK supreme command detachment with Voldus, a GK Librarian and a GMNDK, mainly for their 6 chances of deny the witch with a +1.

 godardc wrote:
No boltguns scouts ? I am interested because I am to model 10 scouts tuesday

It doesn’t really matter what you give scouts. Their job is to stand in the way, not kill stuff. All their weapon options are pretty much identical anyway.

I’ve given mine shotguns, which are fine. Bolt guns are probably less good, but conceivably have a use late game trying to shoot other units off objectives. The problem is they are probably dead by then, and even if not their shooting will be pretty ineffective.

Honestly though give them what you want. Appearance is probably the most important factor, for the brief time they are on the battlefield.