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Sadly that would not be a battle forged list, as of the big FAQ banning CHAOS as a detachment keyword and Fallen don’t have the HERETIC ASTARTES Faction Keyword
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote: I've been thinking about making a slaaneshi daemon list with some fallen support, plus a leviathan. How does a 2k list like this look?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
2X double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
6X10 daemonettes
2X5 seekers
I don't know how the list would work as a whole, but to me it appears you don't have many hard targets. I love my Fallen, but getting into 24" range on foot can be a problem, especially hammer and anvil, and getting into 12" is unrealistic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/17 23:56:09
...hang on. Is there anything actually stopping you from taking FALLEN Rhinos, Helbrutes, Berzerkers, Sorcerers? Unless I’ve overlooked something, main thing would be lack of a LEGION trait, which leaves them as ‘like Word Bearers, but with a specialised Chosen variant’
lindsay40k wrote: ...hang on. Is there anything actually stopping you from taking FALLEN Rhinos, Helbrutes, Berzerkers, Sorcerers? Unless I’ve overlooked something, main thing would be lack of a LEGION trait, which leaves them as ‘like Word Bearers, but with a specialised Chosen variant’
Umm... well I thought people said they couldn't do that because they're not Heretic Astartes, but the Rhino only mentions <Legion>... however I am not sure that the FALLEN keyword is a legion keyword?
lindsay40k wrote: ...hang on. Is there anything actually stopping you from taking FALLEN Rhinos, Helbrutes, Berzerkers, Sorcerers? Unless I’ve overlooked something, main thing would be lack of a LEGION trait, which leaves them as ‘like Word Bearers, but with a specialised Chosen variant’
You are prevented from doing so in the <Legion> section on 116.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
lindsay40k wrote: ...hang on. Is there anything actually stopping you from taking FALLEN Rhinos, Helbrutes, Berzerkers, Sorcerers? Unless I’ve overlooked something, main thing would be lack of a LEGION trait, which leaves them as ‘like Word Bearers, but with a specialised Chosen variant’
You are prevented from doing so in the <Legion> section on 116.
Ah yes, I knew there was something. Which is a shame, as it makes fallen fairly unusable as a list type.
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote: I've been thinking about making a slaaneshi daemon list with some fallen support, plus a leviathan. How does a 2k list like this look?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
2X double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
6X10 daemonettes
2X5 seekers
I don't know how the list would work as a whole, but to me it appears you don't have many hard targets. I love my Fallen, but getting into 24" range on foot can be a problem, especially hammer and anvil, and getting into 12" is unrealistic.
How about something more like this?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
Double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
5X10 daemonettes
Just going all in on the leviathans and make one of the DP's the CSM murdermachine. Got 6 big threat units that can kill most things they touch. Less fodder daemonettes and no seekers, but more beefy dudes. Could drop a unit of daemonettes to get a sorcerer with warptime to make some stuff move a bit faster
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote: I've been thinking about making a slaaneshi daemon list with some fallen support, plus a leviathan. How does a 2k list like this look?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
2X double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
6X10 daemonettes
2X5 seekers
I don't know how the list would work as a whole, but to me it appears you don't have many hard targets. I love my Fallen, but getting into 24" range on foot can be a problem, especially hammer and anvil, and getting into 12" is unrealistic.
How about something more like this?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
Double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
5X10 daemonettes
Just going all in on the leviathans and make one of the DP's the CSM murdermachine. Got 6 big threat units that can kill most things they touch. Less fodder daemonettes and no seekers, but more beefy dudes. Could drop a unit of daemonettes to get a sorcerer with warptime to make some stuff move a bit faster
That's a very scary list that I, a casual player, would have a very, very hard time defeating. Can't speak to competition. From what I hear, people like the 2 range arm leviathan or the range+melee arm. I don't own one yet. I don't think i could stand up to 3 leviathan with 2 butcher cannons each even with my cheesiest list.
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote: I've been thinking about making a slaaneshi daemon list with some fallen support, plus a leviathan. How does a 2k list like this look?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
2X double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
6X10 daemonettes
2X5 seekers
I don't know how the list would work as a whole, but to me it appears you don't have many hard targets. I love my Fallen, but getting into 24" range on foot can be a problem, especially hammer and anvil, and getting into 12" is unrealistic.
How about something more like this?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
Double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
5X10 daemonettes
Just going all in on the leviathans and make one of the DP's the CSM murdermachine. Got 6 big threat units that can kill most things they touch. Less fodder daemonettes and no seekers, but more beefy dudes. Could drop a unit of daemonettes to get a sorcerer with warptime to make some stuff move a bit faster
That's a very scary list that I, a casual player, would have a very, very hard time defeating. Can't speak to competition. From what I hear, people like the 2 range arm leviathan or the range+melee arm. I don't own one yet. I don't think i could stand up to 3 leviathan with 2 butcher cannons each even with my cheesiest list.
That's actually not wholly different to a list I've been trying to play around with, though I only had one leviathan and instead had a couple other big nasty options thrown in.
lindsay40k wrote: ...hang on. Is there anything actually stopping you from taking FALLEN Rhinos, Helbrutes, Berzerkers, Sorcerers? Unless I’ve overlooked something, main thing would be lack of a LEGION trait, which leaves them as ‘like Word Bearers, but with a specialised Chosen variant’
You are prevented from doing so in the <Legion> section on 116.
Ah yes, I knew there was something. Which is a shame, as it makes fallen fairly unusable as a list type.
The main thing stopping Fallen from being any good is not having access to the Rhino nor any mobility shenanigans. You fix EITHER and we would see them more than Chosen.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
lindsay40k wrote: ...hang on. Is there anything actually stopping you from taking FALLEN Rhinos, Helbrutes, Berzerkers, Sorcerers? Unless I’ve overlooked something, main thing would be lack of a LEGION trait, which leaves them as ‘like Word Bearers, but with a specialised Chosen variant’
You are prevented from doing so in the <Legion> section on 116.
Ah yes, I knew there was something. Which is a shame, as it makes fallen fairly unusable as a list type.
The main thing stopping Fallen from being any good is not having access to the Rhino nor any mobility shenanigans. You fix EITHER and we would see them more than Chosen.
I actually hadn't thought about shenanigans. If you let FALLEN infiltrate like AL that would be awesome, and seems more appropriate than a transport vehicle.
Anyone using melee Noise Marines? Any thoughts on how they do?
Asking because I saw someone use them in a game a couple weeks ago. No sonics, just chainswords and bolt pistols. The owner was trashing a Tyranid army and explained to me why they work so well.
Completely forgot what he said. But would like to know.
Melee Noise Marines are outclassed almost entirely by Berzerkers. Against Nids I have no idea how that worked out well for him, because in truth the only major advantage noise marines get from going melee is by being the bane of any imperial army. However one hilarious thing you can do if you DO go noise marines in melee is that they can throw grenades when they die, instead of using their pistol. And every model has a grenade. If your unit gets blasted off the face of the board and it's within 6" of any unit? Get ready for multiple krak grenades into their face.
I believe grenades have the same limitations as other weapons, in that they can't be aimed at units within 1" of them. So they would have to throw their grenades at a unit they aren't in melee combat with, but who is still within the 6" range of the grenade. So usually, they'd only get to fire their pistols.
Music of the apocalypse is based on the model not the unit, so you just peel guys from the back of the unit and can toss nades or shoot whatever. That said, music of the apocalypse is an ability that really just makes them immune to being alpha struck before they can fire. Losing your dudes just to shoot or fight one more time is not a winning strategy. Also, even casual nids will eat a noise marine army for breakfast, not even close. Don't believe me just look at a humble unit of tyranid warriors, look at how good their gear is lol. They are like 7 ppm more armed with bone swords and death spitters, so each guy basically gets a power sword, heavy bolter and two more fething wounds LMAO. The venom canon is better then the BM as well, and like I said, thats comparing one of the nid "worst units" and it's still competitive against us, heaven help you when the heavy venom canon carnifexes start trading fire with you sonic dreads...
Got in another game with Slaanesh Daemonkin. Doubles, teamed up with Hive Fleet Kraken against double Space Wolves with the confirmed new content. ITC mission where there’s four objectives and each side picks a ‘castle’ worth +1VP to opponent. The Fiends trick is HORRIFIC if you’re teamed up with forty Genestealers moving like 20”. Buuuut the Fiends do provide some (1) soft, and (2) high priority unit kills.
We lost 19-18, had appalling luck on Oblits and Maulerfiend utterly whiffing (zero damage from 4CP) and Spartan subsequently getting healed up to top profile & killing our Trygon Prime (then Blood Claws sweeping our infantry blob off our bonus objective).
Our main unforced errors IMO:
- allowing a half dozen dreadnoughts to intimidate a Defiler that should have been running past them towards our bonus objective
- our own lack of Lascannons (or anything that could decisively finish off a crippled titanic unit surrounded by 6” heroic interveners)
- clumsy placement of models that should have been tapping objectives
Our list was somewhat vulnerable to forfeiting killed-more-units and killed-10-models, but that’s MSU-horde alliance for you. It’s an approach that needs to play the mission with a strict focus.
New Space Wolves are absolutely a threat IMO, we should expect to face battalions maximising the -1 to be hit aura stratagem and some frightening thunder hammer wielders over the coming months. Practice your charge phase dance moves, denying those 6” HI’s could become a gatekeeper.
If they’d miscast with Njal, you can bet I’d have thrown 1CP at an attempted possession.
lindsay40k wrote: Got in another game with Slaanesh Daemonkin. Doubles, teamed up with Hive Fleet Kraken against double Space Wolves with the confirmed new content.
Spoiler:
ITC mission where there’s four objectives and each side picks a ‘castle’ worth +1VP to opponent. The Fiends trick is HORRIFIC if you’re teamed up with forty Genestealers moving like 20”. Buuuut the Fiends do provide some (1) soft, and (2) high priority unit kills.
We lost 19-18, had appalling luck on Oblits and Maulerfiend utterly whiffing (zero damage from 4CP) and Spartan subsequently getting healed up to top profile & killing our Trygon Prime (then Blood Claws sweeping our infantry blob off our bonus objective).
Our main unforced errors IMO:
- allowing a half dozen dreadnoughts to intimidate a Defiler that should have been running past them towards our bonus objective
- our own lack of Lascannons (or anything that could decisively finish off a crippled titanic unit surrounded by 6” heroic interveners)
- clumsy placement of models that should have been tapping objectives
Our list was somewhat vulnerable to forfeiting killed-more-units and killed-10-models, but that’s MSU-horde alliance for you. It’s an approach that needs to play the mission with a strict focus.
New Space Wolves are absolutely a threat IMO, we should expect to face battalions maximising the -1 to be hit aura stratagem and some frightening thunder hammer wielders over the coming months. Practice your charge phase dance moves, denying those 6” HI’s could become a gatekeeper.
If they’d miscast with Njal, you can bet I’d have thrown 1CP at an attempted possession.
I would assume from reading that another thing not going your way was that, while the two Wolves got to buff each other, you and your opponent did not, because of Keywords. In a real fight, you would have had a unified force against a unified force, rather than what happend: two 1000pt armies (and thereby severely limited in their combos and CP) against what was essentially one 2000pt army.
Whenever I play a team game and I see this shaping up, I either insist that the teams change, or I insist that everyone is treated equally. In this case, it would be as if there were two successor chapters of Wolves so that they couldn't buff each other or use each others' auras.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Eh, it it didn’t occur to us to stop them sharing bonuses, though they only had a few reveals on their Codex to run on so it wasn’t a full Codex army per se. I think the only time it really came up was on Njal dropping defensive auras, buuut these were against ranged only. The only time it caused a game-changing instance - Oblits whiffing against the Spartan - was targeting a unit owned by the same player. Noted for future team games, though.
Still a dangerous army with access to a more powerful and reliable -2 to be hit than Miasma. One that can come with cover for big stuff. Beware!
Automatically Appended Next Post: In fact, we actually exploited the -1 to be hit aura to force Biovores to automiss and drop Spore Mines where they were needed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/22 14:47:43
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote: I've been thinking about making a slaaneshi daemon list with some fallen support, plus a leviathan. How does a 2k list like this look?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
2X double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
6X10 daemonettes
2X5 seekers
StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote: I've been thinking about making a slaaneshi daemon list with some fallen support, plus a leviathan. How does a 2k list like this look?
Spoiler:
Slaaneshi Battalion
2X double talon DPs w/wings
Soulstealer DP w/wings and murderdance
6X10 daemonettes
2X5 seekers
I imagine they could be quite the nuissance to deal with at a MSU with their plage weapons and the plasma gun for the champion.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Hmm. Multiple plasma gunners could be interesting, but if they need to get within 18” to double tap a decent target they’ll probably get exposed to being shot within 12”. Plague Spewers, on the other hand, become an interesting prospect when they start play a millimetre away from hitting targets - and quite enjoy being charged.
lindsay40k wrote: Hmm. Multiple plasma gunners could be interesting, but if they need to get within 18” to double tap a decent target they’ll probably get exposed to being shot within 12”. Plague Spewers, on the other hand, become an interesting prospect when they start play a millimetre away from hitting targets - and quite enjoy being charged.
I meant something like this:
Vanguard detachment
CSM lord (whatever equipment) Alpha Legion (Edit: Why not take a nurgle sorcer with prescience and misama?)
Elites:
5 plague marines: champion with PG, 2 plague spewers. 118 pts (don't have CA handy atm so correct me if i am wrong)
5 plague marines: champion with PG, 2 plague spewers. 118 pts
5 plague marines: champion with PG, 2 plague spewers. 118 pts
Remember when you field them as Alpha legion elites they don't get rapidfire 18 inches, that is why i prefer the price dropped assult 24 plague spewers if that is the right name.
Back that up with some Cheap CP generating detachments (R&H for minimalist tax, cultists battalion for more CSM slots) and you could bring them in position fast whilest they provide quite the output. Also -1 to hit against them makes them really durable potentially, albeit i feel against eldar they possibly are to easy to isolate.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/23 11:56:55
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The 24” gun is the Blight Launcher, which costs five Combi-bolters. CA reduced the cost of PMs down to the same as a meltagun.
If you’re investing in Nurgle then a Sorcerer with Miasma makes a lot of sense, however it will ideally be cast on something more substantial than a unit of five.
Well, the main thing is, i wanted to use the starter box DG and my Terminators, mainly however the lord contagion ( as a terminator lord / sorcerer) and a unit of plague marines, aswell as a decimator. Regardless i wanted to potentially see if it could work decently enough if ever i want to go back to play mono csm.
I kind of tried to make them look like rusted Automatons covered in a green "shine" as to represent that they are ghosts, lost in a space hulk. Selling their souls to the Machine in return for existing/ prolonging their (un)-live.
That get's supported by my R&H warband, which is a khornate traitor PDF. Mostly infantery but some Leman Russes and a focus on a mechanzied / airborn fist with a infantery core. Basically in the tabletop my small sample of Marines is there for the heavy lifting or tanking (turns out alpha legion nurgle termis in forward positions can be really annoying to deal with). Cp of course is generated by the teeming masses of cannonfodder in the backfield.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/23 13:16:07
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Which of the Terminator (or terminator equivalent) options that Chaos has available is the most viable in general? I know termis aren't in a good place right now, but I'm just looking for the current best.
Basically I'm working on a conversion of some Deathwing Knights (heavy armour, big shields).
Deathshroud/Blightwing might be my current first choice, as they have the extra FnP save which can be shown by the big shield. (Actually also they're 4++ from Cataphractii).
Scarabs work too, as they have the extra defence from All is Dust.
I mostly play friendlies, so they could also be fielded as counts-as units, such as if there are any Daemon units that are a similar statline and base size... but I don't think there are, other than Bloodcrushers but they would need to be mounted units.
Just curious of any thoughts on this. I don't own the Knights yet, I just like the models and think they'd make some cool shrouded/robed heavy-armor cultist type units.
blight lords are the only playable termies in my opinion
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Blightlords definitely seem ok for friendlies. They did well in that recent tourney, leveraging a unique melee weapon, unique ranged weapon, Legion trait, and unit superpowers, but I suspect that list had very particular synergies and it’d be a struggle to make them transfer well to different builds for competitive games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/26 01:13:52
Other then the allready named ones?
Probably alpha legion terminators with Support from a nurgle sorcerer, to get that sweet -2 for enemy bs.
Blightlords still would be better though i belive.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: Other then the allready named ones?
Probably alpha legion terminators with Support from a nurgle sorcerer, to get that sweet -2 for enemy bs.
Blightlords still would be better though i belive.
hard to believe termies can get use of Al trait, they drop close to enemy, they will never benefit of that -1
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
Not Online!!! wrote: Other then the allready named ones?
Probably alpha legion terminators with Support from a nurgle sorcerer, to get that sweet -2 for enemy bs.
Blightlords still would be better though i belive.
hard to believe termies can get use of Al trait, they drop close to enemy, they will never benefit of that -1
All a question of how close you drop and what your intention is.
I prefer mine to drop somewhere in the middle, or even use forward operatives on them as to contest the middle field. Give them the cheapest melee options we have ( energy maces and powerswords), A reaper autocannon and then let them tank in that region. Still, they are not really effective in gaining back points, but siting in cover with a -1 /-2 to hit for enemies makes them really durable. Granted you could do the same with plague marines or havocs etc. for less points with the nearly equal effect.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
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