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 brugner8 wrote:
Actually I own 210 cultists, plus 180 zombies. I could try the troll list using zombies as cultists.
The most orrific thing is...to paint them! even using dipping technique and airbrush it takes you a lot of boring time.
They used to sell very large bags of mutant chronicles basic troops and I grabbed a few of them some times ago.

Please do, and tell me if it works.

Oops I've been counting 1 extra unit of cultists this whole time. It's actually 398 cultists max if you want the sorc/exalted champion. Will edit my previous posts. Here's the list btw:

2000 Pts (7CP)

Black Legion Patrol +0CP
Abaddon
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Slaanesh

Alpha Legion Battalion +5CP
Sorcerer, Nurgle, Prescience, Miasma of Pestilence
Exalted Champion
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Slaanesh
40x Cultists, CCW, Pistol, Nurgle
40x Cultists, CCW, Pistol, Nurgle

Alpha Legion Auxiliary Support -1CP
38x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle

Not sure how useful Miasma is when your opponent has so many other viable targets. Might be helpful for some of the units that are inside enemy deployment scoring Behind Enemy Lines.

A few units of melee cultists could be included to take advantage of the Exalted Champion's wound rerolls in CC and to screen for your autoguns. The sorcerer could also take Death Hex instead of Miasma which would ruin anything that relies more on invulns than normal saves. Also threw in some Mark of Slaanesh for some doubleshoot flavor and if you want to use Delighful Agonies instead of Miasma. None of these considerations are likely to matter since the list isn't really about damage anyway.

I'd expect to spend between 3 and 5 CP before T1 depending on how many AL cultists you need to infiltrate to flood the midfield. Must save at least 2CP to Tide of Traitors into enemy deployment at some point. Anything left should probably be saved for VOTLW/Endless Cacophony.

Okay i was starting to wonder have i been playing my missiles too weak d6 wounds ignoring inv and d3 mw would be lot more reliable taking out those 4-5 wound chars.

So not only does Abigail and Calgar survive two hits with the Reaper Chainsword, they can get hit by the Harpoon too.

Someone needs to make models of them with giant harpoons sticking out of them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So not only does Abigail and Calgar survive two hits with the Reaper Chainsword, they can get hit by the Harpoon too.

Someone needs to make models of them with giant harpoons sticking out of them.

“It’s just a flesh wound!”

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So not only does Abigail and Calgar survive two hits with the Reaper Chainsword, they can get hit by the Harpoon too.

Someone needs to make models of them with giant harpoons sticking out of them.

In fairness though, these are abstract rules that reflect all sorts of variables. I mean, actually hitting any one specific human-sized model with a weapon as slow and cumbersome as a knight's chainsword is already pretty hit-and-miss, and the saves for Abbadon are simulating things like Armour, Energy Fields, Dodging reflexes, Divine Intervention (in a fairly literal sense haha) and the like. Abbaddoonn, with 4 entire deities looking over his shoulder and knocking off the aim of nearby enemies, has a lot of plot armour to get through!

However I would give bonus points to an Abbaddononn model with a harpoon sticking through it. Even more points if it's through the head like one of those novelty arrows.

barboggo wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:
Actually I own 210 cultists, plus 180 zombies. I could try the troll list using zombies as cultists.
The most orrific thing is...to paint them! even using dipping technique and airbrush it takes you a lot of boring time.
They used to sell very large bags of mutant chronicles basic troops and I grabbed a few of them some times ago.

Please do, and tell me if it works.

Oops I've been counting 1 extra unit of cultists this whole time. It's actually 398 cultists max if you want the sorc/exalted champion. Will edit my previous posts. Here's the list btw:

Well certainly will be rather hard to clear. I just played game with similar strategy(just lock enemy off from objectives and score) with my orks(if you are interested BR on ork tactica thread). My list wasn't even particularly OPTIMIZED for that as I had only like 180 models with boyz and grots which is actually fairly little as I wanted to field bit more variable list for sake of fun so had 2 fliers and battlewagon with horribly overpriced flash gits and lootas but still. Basic core strategy of flooding board with cheap bodies and scoring worked fairly well. If opponent had had more aggressive elements it would have been harder but his gunline was very stationary. Then again I was fielding about half the number of cheap chaff in favour of shooty elements that didn't shoot that much and 2/3 of my stuff being softer than your cultists...

Not army I would like to play in random pick up games all the time(would get one dimensional) but occasionally to throw a curve ball or tournament? Sure!

Now all I can hear is Fred Flintstone ABBADABBADOOOOON

 lindsay40k wrote:
Now all I can hear is Fred Flintstone ABBADABBADOOOOON

Haha, awesome, glad I could put that image in your head!


So onto another topic:

I'm considering a couple of future builds/conversions for my Dark Mechanicus style of army (which is basically my way of buying Chaos and AdMech units because who doesn't love evil robots?)

Ruststalkers / Infiltrators are a model I like a lot, though if I ever play a game as AdMech (or killteam with them), I'd probably run Infiltrators. Is there a decent option for CSM for a Melee+Pistol type of unit? I was thinking Berserkers, but they're usually much better with Sword+Axe (which is more of a Ruststalker type of combo, which is also possible with a magnetised arm). The other problem being the slightly different base size, but I think I'm safe with that with my normal opponents.

Kastellan robots are probably going to become Helbrutes or contemptors, if only because I like the idea of a Crazed lost-in-space robot.

Going to potentially make a leviathan or armiger using Onager legs, for a crab/scorpion kind of a look.

Cultists will be Vanguard/Rangers, because they're basically already decent looking cultist troops in the robes and cloaks. That'll be an easy job.


Would be interested to hear any thoughts on this, as well as any notions on what I could use ruststalkers/infiltrators as (this includes Daemon options, though none came to mind). OR any other ideas you might have, such as Dragoon conversions, though I'm pretty sure there's nothing Chaos has access to which is a similar size/base/loadout.

Ruststalkers/Infiltrators as Chaos Spawn might work.

Niiru wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Now all I can hear is Fred Flintstone ABBADABBADOOOOON

Haha, awesome, glad I could put that image in your head!


So onto another topic:

I'm considering a couple of future builds/conversions for my Dark Mechanicus style of army (which is basically my way of buying Chaos and AdMech units because who doesn't love evil robots?)

Ruststalkers / Infiltrators are a model I like a lot, though if I ever play a game as AdMech (or killteam with them), I'd probably run Infiltrators. Is there a decent option for CSM for a Melee+Pistol type of unit? I was thinking Berserkers, but they're usually much better with Sword+Axe (which is more of a Ruststalker type of combo, which is also possible with a magnetised arm). The other problem being the slightly different base size, but I think I'm safe with that with my normal opponents.

Kastellan robots are probably going to become Helbrutes or contemptors, if only because I like the idea of a Crazed lost-in-space robot.

Going to potentially make a leviathan or armiger using Onager legs, for a crab/scorpion kind of a look.

Cultists will be Vanguard/Rangers, because they're basically already decent looking cultist troops in the robes and cloaks. That'll be an easy job.


Would be interested to hear any thoughts on this, as well as any notions on what I could use ruststalkers/infiltrators as (this includes Daemon options, though none came to mind). OR any other ideas you might have, such as Dragoon conversions, though I'm pretty sure there's nothing Chaos has access to which is a similar size/base/loadout.

Ruststalkers, other then Spawn like mentioned before, i think you could run them as exalted Champion, Chaos lord if properly converted or probably most fitting Mutilators (Ca dropped their prices again so maybee they could be worth it).
If you get a big base and a lot of free time might aswell convert 3-4 of them into a single abomination of metal, daemon and flesh and use that as a Daemonprince.
Or you convert one into a Warpsmith or two, you'll need axes though.

Infiltrators: If you can modify them, gun needs a stock probably, why not use them as plague marines? Considering they are relative big nasty metal thingyies the profile would fit them.Alternatively what would you think about Rubrics? Albeit then you need to get rid of the CQC weapon, probably.

If you go down dark Admech, you should consider probably Hellblades/ talons aswell as Decimators, probably some of the most iconic Dark Mechanicus units there are atm.

There is also the fact as which <Legion> you play, since the buffs are kind of important. I think three of them would fit very well:

Iron Warriors: most fluffy one, gets also the warlord trait cold and bitter, Cultists will be a major thing, and who doesn't like a tide of fearless automatons controlled by a Heretek magos?

Alpha Legion: -1 to hit = 1/6 th more durability for everything, so long it's not a vehicle: Basically Instead of fearless automatons you now would get tougher automatons on the field: regardless of what body you use. Additionally the warlord trait has something of a puppet army, bouncing from Character to Character, making it seem like the army is controlled from beyond the field.

Black Legion: Advancing and shooting? A teeming mass of highly developped heretek automatons? The warlord trait is meh, the bonus on morale however certainly something fluffy i think for a wannabee terminator army. (also abbadon or count as abbadon: who would not love a heretek magos coordinating the shooting of his automatons in the midst of battle?)

RE ruststalkers/infiltrators: a bit small to be Spawn or Muties, but perhaps could run them as Possessed? M7 & AP-2 would perhaps be a reasonably easy approximation of WYSIWYG for your opponent looking at the gangly cloud of assorted glowing blades and trying to remember what kind of CSM unit it is

barboggo wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:
Actually I own 210 cultists, plus 180 zombies. I could try the troll list using zombies as cultists.
The most orrific thing is...to paint them! even using dipping technique and airbrush it takes you a lot of boring time.
They used to sell very large bags of mutant chronicles basic troops and I grabbed a few of them some times ago.

Please do, and tell me if it works.

Oops I've been counting 1 extra unit of cultists this whole time. It's actually 398 cultists max if you want the sorc/exalted champion. Will edit my previous posts. Here's the list btw:

2000 Pts (7CP)

Spoiler:

Black Legion Patrol +0CP
Abaddon
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Slaanesh

Alpha Legion Battalion +5CP
Sorcerer, Nurgle, Prescience, Miasma of Pestilence
Exalted Champion
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Slaanesh
40x Cultists, CCW, Pistol, Nurgle
40x Cultists, CCW, Pistol, Nurgle

Alpha Legion Auxiliary Support -1CP
38x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle

Not sure how useful Miasma is when your opponent has so many other viable targets. Might be helpful for some of the units that are inside enemy deployment scoring Behind Enemy Lines.

A few units of melee cultists could be included to take advantage of the Exalted Champion's wound rerolls in CC and to screen for your autoguns. The sorcerer could also take Death Hex instead of Miasma which would ruin anything that relies more on invulns than normal saves. Also threw in some Mark of Slaanesh for some doubleshoot flavor and if you want to use Delighful Agonies instead of Miasma. None of these considerations are likely to matter since the list isn't really about damage anyway.

I'd expect to spend between 3 and 5 CP before T1 depending on how many AL cultists you need to infiltrate to flood the midfield. Must save at least 2CP to Tide of Traitors into enemy deployment at some point. Anything left should probably be saved for VOTLW/Endless Cacophony.

Tha's a fun list, indeed, anyway I think that you need to field at least three sorcerers and consequently thin the numbers of cultists.

 lindsay40k wrote:
RE ruststalkers/infiltrators: a bit small to be Spawn or Muties, but perhaps could run them as Possessed? M7 & AP-2 would perhaps be a reasonably easy approximation of WYSIWYG for your opponent looking at the gangly cloud of assorted glowing blades and trying to remember what kind of CSM unit it is

Great list of ideas! Thanks to both of you (I only quoted Lindsay but the person before had a nice long post of ideas).

I did consider Possessed, but they seemed a bit... lacklustre. They just don't seem worth using, though maybe I'm not giving them enough credit? Much the same for Mutilators really.

I did think that either Berserkers or Plague Marines might work for it. Berserkers have the right double-melee or melee+pistol, Plagues would take some converting for things like Flails but I think it could work.

Also considered things like Bloodletters, or Fiends.

Also did think of Spawn, but I don't think I'm likely to run many (if any) spawn.

Just a few quick question on the beta rules for detachment changes:

Do all the detachments have to have the same faction keyword (eg Death Guard)?
Or is it every unit within a given detachment has to have the same faction keyword, but your army can include detachments with different keywords?

Also with Chaos Daemons specifically, are the faction keywords "Daemon" and "Nurgle", or is it "Nurgle Daemon"? If it's "Nurgle", does this mean CD units can share the same detachment as a CSM unit with Mark of "Nurgle"?
If it's "Nurgle Daemon" does that mean a unit cannot share a detachment with a model with "Slannesh Daemon" and still be battleforged?
If a model has the Mark of "Nurgle" as a keyword, but is "Alpha Legion", can it share a detachment with a unit has has Mark of "Nurgle", but is "Nightlord"?

Asura Varuna wrote:
Just a few quick question on the beta rules for detachment changes:

Do all the detachments have to have the same faction keyword (eg Death Guard)?
Or is it every unit within a given detachment has to have the same faction keyword, but your army can include detachments with different keywords?

Also with Chaos Daemons specifically, are the faction keywords "Daemon" and "Nurgle", or is it "Nurgle Daemon"? If it's "Nurgle", does this mean CD units can share the same detachment as a CSM unit with Mark of "Nurgle"?
If it's "Nurgle Daemon" does that mean a unit cannot share a detachment with a model with "Slannesh Daemon" and still be battleforged?
If a model has the Mark of "Nurgle" as a keyword, but is "Alpha Legion", can it share a detachment with a unit has has Mark of "Nurgle", but is "Nightlord"?

Firstly, it is Nurgle and Daemon, but remember it is <Daemon Alliegence> for Nurgle, and Daemon is just a flat faction keyword. If it were "nurgle daemon" as one keyword, you wouldn't be able to use the generic stratagems that just say "Daemon", because the one word Keyword isn't present.

Also, the detachment itself has to be all death guard, not the army. You can have a detachment of T-sons, DeathGuard and CSM in one army.

Okay, so "Mark of Chaos" and "Allegiance" are not compatible shared keywords for a detachment even if they're the same god.

What about using a "Mark of Chaos" as a keyword to allow 2 different legions within the same detachment, obviously providing that all the units within the detachment share the same "Mark of Chaos"?

Hmm, I haven’t seen anything saying you can’t have a NURGLE or KHORNE Detachment, am I missing something?

You could do that, to my understanding, but you'd lose your legion benefit and only have access to relics and legion specific stratagems

drakerocket wrote:
You could do that, to my understanding, but you'd lose your legion benefit and only have access to relics and legion specific stratagems

Actually, if you had only <NURGLE> detachments, that weren't wholly either a <legion> or all <Daemon>, then you wouldn't get access to any stratagems. You need a Chaos Daemons or Heretic Astartes or Death Guard detachment to unlock those.

You would get a relic from your Warlord though.

At least this is how I understand things!


My topic:
Back to my Dark Mech thoughts - If I do decide to go for Plague Marines (as the resilience is very similar to how AdMech units work), how are they best run? Are Plagues actually any good? They seem to have decent lifespans, but they have 1 attack each compared to berzerkers 6 attacks each so they don't seem worthwhile in Melee... do they have any decently powerful loadouts?

Niiru wrote:
My topic:
Back to my Dark Mech thoughts - If I do decide to go for Plague Marines (as the resilience is very similar to how AdMech units work), how are they best run? Are Plagues actually any good? They seem to have decent lifespans, but they have 1 attack each compared to berzerkers 6 attacks each so they don't seem worthwhile in Melee... do they have any decently powerful loadouts?

To me, the best loadout for Plague Marines is 3x Plasmaguns (since the Champion and 2 regular joes can take them), or 2x Blight Launchers. Melee seems like a poor way to run them, as they only get 1 attack base. Admittedly some melee loadouts grant an extra attack, but still as you mentioned berzerkers do that much better and cheaper. Hell, even Possessed do better melee than Plague Marines.

Now, personally I wouldn't run Plague Marines in a non-Death Guard list. You want them to have ObSec if possible, and they benefit greatly from the Death Guard trait (increasing their rapid fire weapons' double tap range to 18").

 brugner8 wrote:

barboggo wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:
Actually I own 210 cultists, plus 180 zombies. I could try the troll list using zombies as cultists.
The most orrific thing is...to paint them! even using dipping technique and airbrush it takes you a lot of boring time.
They used to sell very large bags of mutant chronicles basic troops and I grabbed a few of them some times ago.

Spoiler:

Please do, and tell me if it works.

Oops I've been counting 1 extra unit of cultists this whole time. It's actually 398 cultists max if you want the sorc/exalted champion. Will edit my previous posts. Here's the list btw:

2000 Pts (7CP)

Black Legion Patrol +0CP
Abaddon
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Slaanesh

Alpha Legion Battalion +5CP
Sorcerer, Nurgle, Prescience, Miasma of Pestilence
Exalted Champion
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle
40x Cultists, Autoguns, Slaanesh
40x Cultists, CCW, Pistol, Nurgle
40x Cultists, CCW, Pistol, Nurgle

Alpha Legion Auxiliary Support -1CP
38x Cultists, Autoguns, Nurgle

Not sure how useful Miasma is when your opponent has so many other viable targets. Might be helpful for some of the units that are inside enemy deployment scoring Behind Enemy Lines.

A few units of melee cultists could be included to take advantage of the Exalted Champion's wound rerolls in CC and to screen for your autoguns. The sorcerer could also take Death Hex instead of Miasma which would ruin anything that relies more on invulns than normal saves. Also threw in some Mark of Slaanesh for some doubleshoot flavor and if you want to use Delighful Agonies instead of Miasma. None of these considerations are likely to matter since the list isn't really about damage anyway.

I'd expect to spend between 3 and 5 CP before T1 depending on how many AL cultists you need to infiltrate to flood the midfield. Must save at least 2CP to Tide of Traitors into enemy deployment at some point. Anything left should probably be saved for VOTLW/Endless Cacophony.

Tha's a fun list, indeed, anyway I think that you need to field at least three sorcerers and consequently thin the numbers of cultists.

One for Delightful Agonies, one for Miasma, and one for Weaver? Plus Prescience, Death Hex and Warptime I guess?

If you lose the auxiliary detachment of 38 cultists and the exalted champion, you get +6 CP, 2 more sorcerers, and 26pts left to spend on goodies. That's enough for a jump back and couple of combi-bolters for your wizards. I like it.

I just realized one of the reasons why cultists are so good is that its basically 4pts for a dude with a bolter when you spend 1 CP for VOTLW. That's ridiculous value compared to tactical marines lol. It's actually better than a bolter because you'd wound T8+ on 5s still.

Had a 4k point game where I tried out three leviathans. One of the melee ones punched a macharius to death.
I definitely like the melee loadout for them. Warptiming that amount of punchyness is awesome.

For Daemons you need <Alliegance>

For CSM you need <Legion>

The mark of chaos is more or less just an added bonus for fluff, and a requirement for stratagems, relics and the like. Now bare in mind, some things do absolutely benefit mark of chaos.

A Bloodmaster gives +1 strength to Warp Talons and allows them to reroll charges.

 vaklor4 wrote:
For Daemons you need <Alliegance>

For CSM you need <Legion>

The mark of chaos is more or less just an added bonus for fluff, and a requirement for stratagems, relics and the like. Now bare in mind, some things do absolutely benefit mark of chaos.

A Bloodmaster gives +1 strength to Warp Talons and allows them to reroll charges.

I'm pretty sure once you pick a Mark and/or an Allegiance they're functionally the same for list building as a keyword, so you can have a BF detachment with a WB juggerlord, WE zerkers, and bloodletters that just won't get a legion trait.

yes you can you just lost stratagems in that specific detachment

Ok so this is beyond my mathhammer so looking for opinions. Putting together a CC list to hit hard, baring in mind i have space in a rhino so delivery is reasonably covered, i was initially thinking i would add a winged deamon prince with malefic talons. now im thinking i might be better just going with a lord with the black mace and saving around 100 points.

chaos lord
T4 5W 3+ 4++
4 attacks
2+
S7 -2 2D (chance for MWs)

prince
T6 8W 3+ 5++
7 attacks
2+
S7 -2 2D

okay so the beff auras are the same, ignoring the black mace MWs they hit equally as hard but the prince hits more times. Also the prince is arguably more resilient with the T6 and 8W regardless of the lower inv.
But is the prince worth the 100 point difference? If i was planning for the prince to advance behind the rhinos anyway, why not stick a lord in the rhinos instead and save 100 points for something else?
What about taking 2 lords in one of the rhinos? (i have 4 spaces) obviously the second lord cant take the black mace but it does double the attacks and resilience. Be interested in your thoughts...

You're obligated to take the Lord with a Jump Pack, Bike, or Steed simply because he's too slow. Knowing that alone, the Prince is worth the price increase.

So I've considered adding a Bloat Drone or two to my list build idea, as I fancied adding some anti-horde/infantry flamers to my list and they seemed like a pretty sturdy unit. However I do already have a lot of sturdy units, and am a little short on pure dakka, so I ran some comparisons...

Drone + 2x Plaguespitters - 9" range, 2D6 S6 AP-1 Auto-Hit Plague Weapon (for reroll on wounds 1s)

or for the same cost

6x Tzeentch Flamers - 12" range, 6D6 S4 AP-1 Auto Hit, and for 1 CP can be deepstriked onto the table and still flame due to their long range.


I have to say, I'm tempted by the flamers. They seem to be even deadlier than the Exalted, though the Exalted is handy to hide as it's a character and it's also a 3-shot lascannon.

I know the flamers will be less tough, but they can also stay totally off the board until needed which helps.

Just a thought.

Has anyone run 4+ daemon princes? If so how did it do?

weaver9 wrote:
Has anyone run 4+ daemon princes? If so how did it do?

dp's are awesome, lately i played 2 Ts dp's 1 nurgle demons Dp and one korne dp with skullreaver, they outperform many units with roughly same point value and pose a threath to many others, the skullreaver prince, annilathed a gallant Ik in 1 combat round, 7 str 13 ap -4 d6 damage attacks rerolling to hit and wound against titanic (plus chance to inflict mortal wounds) is a force to reckon with, ts provide psychic support and nurgle ones deal with heavy targets, i found this a nice mix.