Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
If i trigger death to the false emperor with a frag grenade/or blastmaster do i do another d6 hit rolls with the weapon again ?

Fight Phase only ability, does not work in shooting at all.

Noise marines get to shot during the fight phase when they die.

I used to think the same thing, the wording says when they die.

It's pretty rad.

Huh, maybe an even larger incentive to give them an Icon of Excess? Or maybe not.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Huh, maybe an even larger incentive to give them an Icon of Excess? Or maybe not.

Well today I triggered death to the false emperor 7 times from 4 noise marines dying thanks to the combination of a icon of excess, + dark apostle, (letting me reroll all failed to hits in fight phase woo) but I got rule sharked by being told I only get to roll 7 extra hit die when I should have got an extra 7d6 hit die, since 1 attack with a frag grenade = 1d6 hit dice. Though to be fair we're all a bit confused with 8th being so vastly different.

I really want to witness the dream now, of a noise marine dying, rolling 6 for the number of frag hits he gets, then rolling 5+ on all of those so he gets to drop 7 frags upon his death, it would be glorious i'd love to see a single fallen noise marine bring about the death of an entire unit of 30+ models, a true apocalyptic end.


This is also probably why the doom siren is only D3 and not d6, can you imagine how insane it would be to trigger death to the false emperor, with a doom siren.

 Rydria wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Huh, maybe an even larger incentive to give them an Icon of Excess? Or maybe not.

Well today I triggered death to the false emperor 7 times from 4 noise marines dying thanks to the combination of a icon of excess, + dark apostle, (letting me reroll all failed to hits in fight phase woo) but I got rule sharked by being told I only get to roll 7 extra hit die when I should have got an extra 7d6 hit die, since 1 attack with a frag grenade = 1d6 hit dice. Though to be fair we're all a bit confused with 8th being so vastly different.

I really want to witness the dream now, of a noise marine dying, rolling 6 for the number of frag hits he gets, then rolling 5+ on all of those so he gets to drop 7 frags upon his death, it would be glorious i'd love to see a single fallen noise marine bring about the death of an entire 30+ models, a true apocalyptic end.

Music to my ears

lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

 sfshilo wrote:
Done. I would not get your hopes up trying to manipulate rules in eighth ed, GW is not keen on super friends lists and speaking as a former epidemius list runner in fifth it really should not exist. CSM shooting list would be broke as all hell with epidemius giving out bonuses like that.

Thanks
I don't think that Epidemius combining with forgefiends is really that crazy. The bonus' the tallymaster gives out are more for assault based armies. Maulerfiends would be the better recipients of it.

Compare it to the other armies tricks. 3 knights plus 120 conscripts is a hell of a lot tougher. Scions and Tauox Primes are simply bonkers. Try running 8 nurgle daemon princes plus 19 nurgling bases. They are not even in the same category of power as synergy between CD daemons and CSM daemons.

 Latro_ wrote:
lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

 andysonic1 wrote:
There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

The only thing I can really see if someone wanted to take advantage of the 20 man blocks they can come in.

I'm not sure to the actual value of this, but it's something that could be done

Has anyone tried a defiler yet, i'm thinking of trying one out with twin flamer, twin heaby bolter, and a combi flamer.

 Rydria wrote:
Has anyone tried a defiler yet, i'm thinking of trying one out with twin flamer, twin heaby bolter, and a combi flamer.

Just got my 2 defilers in the mail, and will be trying them out tomorrow with almost the same load out (i think I'm going to try Twin Heavy Flamer, Reaper Auto Cannon, and Combi-Flamer). That with the Changeling and a daemon prince buffing them should be interesting.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

The only thing I can really see if someone wanted to take advantage of the 20 man blocks they can come in.

I'm not sure to the actual value of this, but it's something that could be done

I think I'd rather take 40 Cultists over 20 basic CSM.

Cotillion989 wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Has anyone tried a defiler yet, i'm thinking of trying one out with twin flamer, twin heaby bolter, and a combi flamer.

Just got my 2 defilers in the mail, and will be trying them out tomorrow with almost the same load out (i think I'm going to try Twin Heavy Flamer, Reaper Auto Cannon, and Combi-Flamer). That with the Changeling and a daemon prince buffing them should be interesting.

Let me know how it turns out

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Been mathing up oblits using the D3 average of 2 for their rolls vs 5 basic terminators with power swords and combi bolters - both units are more or less the same pts cost and the same style of unit e.g. termi armour, multi wounds, deep strike

3 obilts vs marines:
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=6&str=8&ap=2&dam=2&tou=4&wnd=1&sv=3

2.2 dead

3 obilts vs a rhino
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=6&str=8&ap=2&dam=2&tou=7&wnd=10&sv=3

3.5 wounds

5 terminators (combi-bolters) vs marines
24"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=10&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=4&wnd=1&sv=3
1.1 dead

12"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=20&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=4&wnd=1&sv=3
2.22 dead


5 terminators (combi-bolters) vs rhino
24"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=10&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=7&wnd=10&sv=3

0.741 wounds

12"
http://www.meltatotheface.com/wp-content/mathhammer.php?wsbs=3&atks=20&str=4&ap=0&dam=1&tou=7&wnd=10&sv=3

1.48 wounds


So vs infantry more or less the same
less effective vs bigger stuff

but then you have the fact terminators move faster, this squad has one more wound and attack overall and speaking of combat actually has power weapons to deal out some hurt!

i'm thinking of just proxying my obilts as stock termies!

They should probably be Assault 3. Would make them a lot more attractive.

My money is on a near future release that gives the 'Cult of Destruction' keyword an extra attack, probably within close proximity of a Warpsmith (thinking a la 'Traitor's Hate/Legions ). Until then, my mass Oblits will have to to run with Epidemius...

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

Which is kinda sad, I had high hopes for basic csm when they wrote in the 8th ED preview that they should be worth to take now.

Greed wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

Which is kinda sad, I had high hopes for basic csm when they wrote in the 8th ED preview that they should be worth to take now.

As a World Eaters player I was excited to field hordes of CSM, but clearly I'll just have to wait for the Codex.

Greed wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

Which is kinda sad, I had high hopes for basic csm when they wrote in the 8th ED preview that they should be worth to take now.

Unless, yaknow, you need troops to fill your FoC

I mean, devs/havoks were always regular marine dudes with better gun access. nothing is new in that department. the devs/havoks just occupy another slot.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Greed wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

Which is kinda sad, I had high hopes for basic csm when they wrote in the 8th ED preview that they should be worth to take now.

Unless, yaknow, you need troops to fill your FoC

I mean, devs/havoks were always regular marine dudes with better gun access. nothing is new in that department. the devs/havoks just occupy another slot.

If you're taking base CSM, ever, it is a tax. You can take Renegade Mutants, or Militia, or Deamons, or Cultists. Literally anything would be a better use of your points over basic marines.

Not only that, but even thinking you need troops in 8th is a red herring. You can use other detachments that make better use of your points. CP is not the end all be all to lists. I'm finding I want one unit of berzerkers and one blob of renegade mutants as troops, that's all I need from that slot.

is it me or is the warhound titan massively overcosted ?

My friend just showed me his Hiephrant bio-titans stats and it completely outclasses the warhound for a mere 300pts, the only thing the warhound has over it is void shield save is better than a 5++ at least at full HP.

What are you guys using on you berzerker champions? Chainsword/Chain Axes like the rest of the squad or maybe a Power Axe?

 andysonic1 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Greed wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
lol has anyone noticed normal CSM squads can now take two heavy weapons at 10 models!

like how did i miss this!?

Another thing, the second special or heavy weapon does not actually replace your boltgun!

10 marines - 9 bolters and 2 heavy bolters it is.

There's never a reason to take base CSM. You either go Chosen for more skirmishing or Havocs for more long ranged firepower. They will always be doing either job better.

Which is kinda sad, I had high hopes for basic csm when they wrote in the 8th ED preview that they should be worth to take now.

Unless, yaknow, you need troops to fill your FoC

I mean, devs/havoks were always regular marine dudes with better gun access. nothing is new in that department. the devs/havoks just occupy another slot.

If you're taking base CSM, ever, it is a tax. You can take Renegade Mutants, or Militia, or Deamons, or Cultists. Literally anything would be a better use of your points over basic marines.

Not only that, but even thinking you need troops in 8th is a red herring. You can use other detachments that make better use of your points. CP is not the end all be all to lists. I'm finding I want one unit of berzerkers and one blob of renegade mutants as troops, that's all I need from that slot.

The other detachments only really work if you can afford to take a hell lot of HQs.
Troops may not be the top go-getters (at least not all troops), but they do usually serve the purpose of "have a bunch of bodies on the table" pretty well.
And non-marine armies don't have an equivalent "base trooper with extra weapon options" in heavy.

Hello all, how does everyone feel about Abaddon in this edition?
He's been my workhorse every game I've played with him - I usually bubble wrap him with 5-10 Khorne termies to deepstrike with to delete whatever is in front of them in CC. I even took down Girlyman in solo combat thanks to Death to the False Emperor. Plus the morale bubble and re-rolls to hit just make it oh so sweet to run him. I'm just having trouble figuring what to surround him with for maximum point efficiency.

Abby feels okay right now, certainly not Girlyman levels. I think GW is setting it up to either have him ascend in some way, or die off because he doesn't really feel like the "big bad" of the universe.

Imagine if they have it so Be'lakor kills Abaddon to increase his power to absurdly high levels.

Not sure how I'd feel about that.

Honestly, I would be fine with that. abbaddon, model wise is an atrocity. By modern sculpt standards, he is a stunty. Belakor is one of the finest sculpts GW has ever produced. Either way, the new bad guy has got to be buffed beyond current tabletop standards because right now, the face of chaos is not chaos's best model by a long shot.

I'd prefer a daemon being the face of chaos, personally. Bel'akor would be a fantastic choice to be the prime Chaos Undivided character.

Hey guys.

EVENTUALLY received my Imperial Armour book! YAY!

Looking through it there are so many tasty treats!

Giant Chaos Spawn is my fav so far!

At this point in time I am looking for a somewhat competitive Chaos list. Looking to take part in some tournaments.
But this is me starting back after a 4 year hiatus.

My collection so far consists of 2 DG starter sets (Love the models) and a Chaos Knight. (Always wanted one)

At present I am considering running a high Toughness/Wound list with Brimstones as my core troops.

Just looking for some pointers.
As far as I can see, Decimator with twin Soulburner Petard seems to be the most cost effective unit in the IA.
However, I also like the Fire Raptor. But at 350 pts, its a fairly large investment. Albeit a lot of Dakka!

Any pointers?
Is the Fire Raptor worth the investment?

I have no doubt Im going to make/buy some Giant Chaos Spawn though...

Thanks guys.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Debilitate wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:


That just means they aren't shooting my two squads of quad heavy bolter rapiers pumping out 72 shots a round anchored by a deredeo dread as much. Point being all of your stuff should be an attractive or necessary target, otherwise, why bring it?

How are you fitting your Dorito? I'm using Butcher Cannon Array + Greater Havocs + Heavy Bolters for maximum dakka. I think the FW Index is bugged because it doesn't say how to take the Hellfire Veil, but includes a point cost. I want to try the saker but it just seems...gimmicky.

I equip it the same as you are. Just add the points cost of the veil. The saker is a gimmick. Stay away from it. What you want to shoot with it and what it is good at killing are two different things.

I wouldn't say that yeah it's a gimmick but it actually works wonders in a Nurgle force with plenty of LD debuffing shenanigans plus I take 2 butcher cannon contemptor and 2 deredeo one with butcher the other with saker. The high amount of butcher cannon rounds ensures that I always wound stuff every time especially if I really want it dead which the saker does well

Hi people. I just wanted to know if in your opinion there was still a reason to take chosen with plasma/meltaguns over terminators with combi-melta/plasma.

So played a game last night first time using my DG, attached some pics so you can get a feel for the game.

Some thoughts:

1. Obilterators as much as i'v tried them now in 3 games are rubbish. They just dont seem to do anything reliable and always feel there is something that could do what they do better.
2. Plague marines feel just as resilient as before if a little more so, DR saved my ass so much! also easy to forget they have plague knives which have a re-roll of a 1 to wound
3. Defilters! wow they are back from a combat perspective i took the scourge on mine and it literally killed 4 killakans in one round of combat. I had this epic paring with a daemon prince with warptime... he made it move 16" first turn then supported it in combat with the re-rolls of 1's! defo gone from my 'i take it cus i like the model i made even thou its crap' to... i want another one!
4. Plasmaguns actually seem pretty meh now, maybe its because i was against orks but they just feel lackluster compared to meltas which are just as good as before
5. Hit on a sweet tactic with falling back. So a couple of times i didnt want my PM's in combat and my army is mech... loads of orks will do that to you. So wehn you fallback... hop back into your rhino! its such a simple tactic and i never even considered doing it until the opportunity presented its self! really helped.
6. Rhinos i'm starting to see are as much a charge in to p**s you opponent off as they are a transport. I just plouged one into 20 boyz to stop them going after my predator... he's of have to of fallen back which ofc meanss no charging!
7. Spawn! was turned off by their slower movement but boy they are pretty sweet now:
- d6 attacks 'each' not per model
- -1 ld to nearby units
- 4 wounds
- decent -2 2dam and the random roll is sick (2 attacks or -4! ap or re-roll to wound)
8. Damage is such a new thing and something its easy not to ask about, esp for lords and DPs... its easy to get all charge happy against stuff like killakans till you realise they do 3 dam! think i'm gonna base a lot of decisions soley on damage from now on.
9. Command points, used all 6 literally saved my ass all 6 times. Easy to forget to use them, dont forget!