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HeavenLord wrote:
Is Magnus now a must have in any Chaos list ? I perosnally expect a nerf when the TS codex will be realeased, he is just a beast to stick like this...

He's pretty good but not an auto-include, he's still quite a point sink and works best in a TS/Tzeentch army. I can imagine a lot of tournaments are going to see Magnus + the Changeling surrounded by Brimstone Horrors cause who doesn't love a T7 18W model with a 3++ save, re-rolling 1s, and a -1 to hit him? It would take about 69 BS3+ Lascannons to kill him in such a list.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:

Raptors are, kinda sadly, better for quick strike shooty units IMHO. I run them with 2x Melta Guns and a Combia Melta, run them in close, and fry a dude or two, hopefully forcing around a -3 morale test. If I time it right and they do this right as Chaos Spawn hit the enemy unit, they're at a -4 ld before the Spawn even kill anybody.

I have not looked closely at warp talons in the new codex yet (mainly cause my ltd edition one got lost in the friggin mail somewhere.) Did their points or stat line change any? previously they were just too pricey to be overly effective, especiall with only 2 attacks.

Raptors cost about 17 points, whilst Warp Talons are only 15. Lightning Claws also dropped a point, so a pair is 12, for a total of 27 per.

Okay, so I forgot to factor in the cost of the Claws, themselves.

I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Sokhar wrote:
I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sokhar wrote:
I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

NO! He's a Lord of War, he gets his own detachment.

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sokhar wrote:
I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

NO! He's a Lord of War, he gets his own detachment.

But I don't play Tzeentch.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sokhar wrote:
I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

NO! He's a Lord of War, he gets his own detachment.

But I don't play Tzeentch.

And I don't like taxes but you gotta do what you gotta do!! Get out there and win for chaos, soldier!

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sokhar wrote:
I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

NO! He's a Lord of War, he gets his own detachment.

But I don't play Tzeentch.

And I don't like taxes but you gotta do what you gotta do!! Get out there and win for chaos, soldier!

Who said we have to pay taxes?

Also, check the W/L in the sig: Khorne don't need no Tzeentchy shenanigans!

Alright, guys.

I'm Daemons for life, but I've been fiddling with this idea for awhile now and would like some feedback from you CSM folks.

Word Bearers batallion, 3x Sorcerers with jump packs, 3x 40 cultists blobs.
Second batallion, Changeling, Daemon Prince w/ wings and claws, 3x 10 Brimstones, and some exalted Flamers
Supreme Command w/ 5 Malefic lords

Leaves 2-300pts for summoning. You deep strike the sorcerers between 1-3 and summon a huge blob of daemons w/ dark pact, while bouncing the cultists around with the cultists Stratagem.

Basically it's a very large CSM horde with Daemon backup for a smaller horde/smites.

Opinion?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sokhar wrote:
I vote "MegaMag" for quick nickname.

I think you'd have to have a pretty compelling reason NOT to take Magnus, at this point. A little more than two Daemon Princes (who are some of our best, most efficient units) isn't what I'd consider a point sink, and he hits dramatically harder than said princes. He can't hide behind other models, but punching through that boosted invul save on a T7 model is not going to be fun. And you better have an effective screen because with his speed, he's going to be in your lines VERY quickly.

Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

NO! He's a Lord of War, he gets his own detachment.

But I don't play Tzeentch.

This. I have very HH style, "clean" (no demons, mutations etc) warband of Night Lords. We dont get dirty with ruined fallen worshipper on warp steroids. We get dirty with our own ways. Ave dominus nox!

 mrhappyface wrote:
Is "I don't play Tzeentch" a good enough reason?

That's pretty much all I had in mind.

So, Magnus can't use weaver of fates (Also, fateweaver doesnt have this power?!? ) because he doesnt have a MoT?

If thats the case, does he need a jetpack sorc to try and keep up?

 Lord Commissar wrote:
So, Magnus can't use weaver of fates (Also, fateweaver doesnt have this power?!? ) because he doesnt have a MoT?

If thats the case, does he need a jetpack sorc to try and keep up?

We discussed this about a page ago: there is no such thing as a MARK OF TZEENTCH keyword, the <MARK OF CHAOS> keyword is replaced by KHORNE, NURGLE, TZEENTCH or SLAANESH.

Magnus isn't even that good, he will normally eat several missile launcher on turn 1 and die before he accomplishes anything.

If he does survive or the ignore him he is a beast but that never happens people aren't stupid the same would happen to guliman if not for his blasted 9 wounds.

I would like some more info on the Maulerfiend vs Bloodslaughtere debate, I was just getting ready to hop on FW when I read about the Maulerfiends update. Does anyone have any experience using either/both or any math to throw my way. Beforebit seemed clear that Bloodslaughters were the winners in the CC walker contest, but now im not so sure. Also, is the impaler worth it on the Bloodslaughter?

 mrhappyface wrote:

HeavenLord wrote:
Is Magnus now a must have in any Chaos list ? I perosnally expect a nerf when the TS codex will be realeased, he is just a beast to stick like this...

He's pretty good but not an auto-include, he's still quite a point sink and works best in a TS/Tzeentch army. I can imagine a lot of tournaments are going to see Magnus + the Changeling surrounded by Brimstone Horrors cause who doesn't love a T7 18W model with a 3++ save, re-rolling 1s, and a -1 to hit him? It would take about 69 BS3+ Lascannons to kill him in such a list.

Being the grand daddy of like all psykers, I could actually see them letting him choose form 1ksons powers AND hereticus powers once their dex comes out because otherwise people would have to get an entirely new codex just to find out what Magnus' new powers are if he was their only 1ksons unit, which isn't really GW's MO.

But yes he was absolutely an auto include before the FAQ dropped. The changeling + 3 brims units + whatever HQ you want is just way too good to not go for competitively (typically it's a 30 point malefic lord FWIW). 3 CP and makes Magnus an even bigger monster and essentially impossible to kill.

The one nice thing I'll say though, is that Chaos has so many fun options that are also really good that you don't NEED Magnus to win games. Will he help? Absolutely. But you don't NEED him. Enjoy the new golden age of Chaos. Death to the false emperor! (I swear I'll actually remember to use that rule one of these games...)

 Rydria wrote:
Magnus isn't even that good, he will normally eat several missile launcher on turn 1 and die before he accomplishes anything.

If he does survive or the ignore him he is a beast but that never happens people aren't stupid the same would happen to guliman if not for his blasted 9 wounds.

But I believe they are refering to a Magnus with a 3++ save, re-rolling 1s and a -1 to hit aura from the Changeling, as I said before, that takes about 69 lascannons to bring him down. You could also have him supported by several units of Alpha Legion, Tzeentch oblits who would then have a -2 to hit them. Then make a nice cushion of a Brimstone Horror Brigade who also have -1 to hit, with whatever points you have left, spam cheap psykers for ALL the smite.

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I would like some more info on the Maulerfiend vs Bloodslaughtere debate, I was just getting ready to hop on FW when I read about the Maulerfiends update. Does anyone have any experience using either/both or any math to throw my way. Beforebit seemed clear that Bloodslaughters were the winners in the CC walker contest, but now im not so sure. Also, is the impaler worth it on the Bloodslaughter?

Short of the fact that not everyone plays khorne, I can't think of anything the maulerfiend explictly excels at vs the bloodslaughterer.

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I would like some more info on the Maulerfiend vs Bloodslaughtere debate, I was just getting ready to hop on FW when I read about the Maulerfiends update. Does anyone have any experience using either/both or any math to throw my way. Beforebit seemed clear that Bloodslaughters were the winners in the CC walker contest, but now im not so sure. Also, is the impaler worth it on the Bloodslaughter?

Maulerfiends, or Dinobots as I like to call them, are actually pretty good. Give them mark of Tzeentch in an alpha legion army. Stand next to the changeling. Prescience. Spend 1 cp to never miss or fail to wound. Profit.

As soon as I find a model that I actually want to use for one, I'll probably try them out (played in an extremely competitive RTT this weekend and there were 3, and I played against all of them). They're good


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:
Magnus isn't even that good, he will normally eat several missile launcher on turn 1 and die before he accomplishes anything.

If he does survive or the ignore him he is a beast but that never happens people aren't stupid the same would happen to guliman if not for his blasted 9 wounds.

Yeah I can promise that this doesn't happen as often as you make it sound. Those lascannons need 4's to hit, 3's to wound, and then he saves everything except a 2 (and a 1 that re-rolls into a 1 or 2). He can also re-roll 1 save of a 2 each turn. It's actually a pretty ridiculous defensive capability, especially because every lascannon shot that even gets through only does 3.5 wounds on average.

People who fly Magnus forward into situations that get him killed are people who don't know how to play Magnus.

Even setting aside the Changeling and Weaver of Fate buffs, just going off his raw statline it would take like 21 BS 3+ Missile Launcher shots to kill Magnus. So I think he was engaging in some pretty gross hyperbole. Or he needs some new dice in the worst way possible.

Is it confirmed Daemon engines work with Changeling and the like?

 luke1705 wrote:

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I would like some more info on the Maulerfiend vs Bloodslaughtere debate, I was just getting ready to hop on FW when I read about the Maulerfiends update. Does anyone have any experience using either/both or any math to throw my way. Beforebit seemed clear that Bloodslaughters were the winners in the CC walker contest, but now im not so sure. Also, is the impaler worth it on the Bloodslaughter?

Maulerfiends, or Dinobots as I like to call them, are actually pretty good. Give them mark of Tzeentch in an alpha legion army. Stand next to the changeling. Prescience. Spend 1 cp to never miss or fail to wound. Profit.

As soon as I find a model that I actually want to use for one, I'll probably try them out (played in an extremely competitive RTT this weekend and there were 3, and I played against all of them). They're good


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:
Magnus isn't even that good, he will normally eat several missile launcher on turn 1 and die before he accomplishes anything.

If he does survive or the ignore him he is a beast but that never happens people aren't stupid the same would happen to guliman if not for his blasted 9 wounds.

Yeah I can promise that this doesn't happen as often as you make it sound. Those lascannons need 4's to hit, 3's to wound, and then he saves everything except a 2 (and a 1 that re-rolls into a 1 or 2). He can also re-roll 1 save of a 2 each turn. It's actually a pretty ridiculous defensive capability, especially because every lascannon shot that even gets through only does 3.5 wounds on average.

People who fly Magnus forward into situations that get him killed are people who don't know how to play Magnus.

This is coming from the gentleman in the daemon thread i believe it was Cephalobeard, who mentioned it as something a top 8/16 player experienced enough for him to consider dropping Magnus, it is also something he himself has experienced Magnus dies allot on turn 1/2 armies are packing allot of firepower.

I've personally never used magnus since I only play Slaanesh armies.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Is it confirmed Daemon engines work with Changeling and the like?

Anything with both the DAEMON and TZEENTCH keywords is affected by the changeling's aura.

 Rydria wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I would like some more info on the Maulerfiend vs Bloodslaughtere debate, I was just getting ready to hop on FW when I read about the Maulerfiends update. Does anyone have any experience using either/both or any math to throw my way. Beforebit seemed clear that Bloodslaughters were the winners in the CC walker contest, but now im not so sure. Also, is the impaler worth it on the Bloodslaughter?

Maulerfiends, or Dinobots as I like to call them, are actually pretty good. Give them mark of Tzeentch in an alpha legion army. Stand next to the changeling. Prescience. Spend 1 cp to never miss or fail to wound. Profit.

As soon as I find a model that I actually want to use for one, I'll probably try them out (played in an extremely competitive RTT this weekend and there were 3, and I played against all of them). They're good


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:
Magnus isn't even that good, he will normally eat several missile launcher on turn 1 and die before he accomplishes anything.

If he does survive or the ignore him he is a beast but that never happens people aren't stupid the same would happen to guliman if not for his blasted 9 wounds.

Yeah I can promise that this doesn't happen as often as you make it sound. Those lascannons need 4's to hit, 3's to wound, and then he saves everything except a 2 (and a 1 that re-rolls into a 1 or 2). He can also re-roll 1 save of a 2 each turn. It's actually a pretty ridiculous defensive capability, especially because every lascannon shot that even gets through only does 3.5 wounds on average.

People who fly Magnus forward into situations that get him killed are people who don't know how to play Magnus.

This is coming from the gentleman in the daemon thread i believe it was Cephalobeard, who mentioned it as something a top 16 player experienced allot enough for him to consider dropping Magnus, it is also something he himself has experienced Magnus dies allot on turn 1/2 armies are packing allot of firepower.

Yes. That is me, and yes, that is the opinion they gave pre-codex buff.

I'm uncertain if it's changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Is it confirmed Daemon engines work with Changeling and the like?

Anything with both the DAEMON and TZEENTCH keywords is affected by the changeling's aura.

Interesting. Perhaps I like them as a better idea. Running a few maulerfiends alongside my Giant Spawn sounds neat.

One of the benefits of the Maulerfiends over the Bloodslaughteres is that they can be targeted by the god specific powers; improve inv, -1 to hit, or +5 FnP. These can be effected by herald buffs too right?

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
One of the benefits of the Maulerfiends over the Bloodslaughteres is that they can be targeted by the god specific powers; improve inv, -1 to hit, or +5 FnP. These can be effected by herald buffs too right?

This is also why I feel that Lord of Skulls is much better than renegade knight now with its decrease in points. Lord of skulls can benefit from being part of the same legion because it has the legion and heretic astartes keyword. Lord of skulls also have the Khorne keyword. So, this means that characters of the same legion can lend their auras to the lord of skulls and this means that even a daemon prince of Khorne of a different legion can also still lend its reroll to hit on 1 aura to the LOS because both are Khorne Daemons. (LOS is a daemon). And statline wise, a LOS is better than a renegade knight. Also, LOS can benefit from use of CSM strategems like daemoforge while the renegade knight cannot.

Anyone got any ideas about running a daemon bomb type list? I run Word Bearers and am thinking that summoning 30 bloodletters right on top of someone will be an enjoyable experience. The biggest issue is that it's hard to get in position for a turn 2 summon without getting yourself killed. I'm thinking a flying DP or jump pack sorceror are the best options, because anyone in a transport can't summon after they disembark.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:
How are you finding the use of singular chaos spawn for bumping out slots? Don't they just vanish into red paste once they get looked at ?

They're relatively tough, and I like the fact that if you're trying to kill one, you're not shooting something else, like a tac squad. I've also not seen anyone put out enough damage in overwatch to kill one as it charges, so I use them as my overwatch absorbing first charges. They're remarkably pesky for only 33 points.

I'm liking this, plus it ought to be noted that they are the cheapest unit in our Codex and can block landing zones. In fact if we want more HQs than the minimum for the rest of the army, there's things to be said for two or three Spawn grabbing an extra CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

saint_red wrote:
Anyone got any ideas about running a daemon bomb type list? I run Word Bearers and am thinking that summoning 30 bloodletters right on top of someone will be an enjoyable experience. The biggest issue is that it's hard to get in position for a turn 2 summon without getting yourself killed. I'm thinking a flying DP or jump pack sorceror are the best options, because anyone in a transport can't summon after they disembark.

Dreadclaw with Slaaneshi Possessed and a Sorcerer with Delightful Agonies, that's 18 Wounds the enemy have to get past 3+/5++ & FNP and 10 they have to get past T7 & 3+ before they are allowed to target the character. Throw in Warptime as well, and either of those units will also wreak havoc on arrival. Throw in a second DC with Plasma Chosen and a Lord for a second Summoner who can bring out the Bloodletters, and a deep insertion force it's almost impossible to get through in a single turn to kill the summoners.

Bonus - if you don't have anything else to cast it on, the Sorcerer can Warptime himself forwards after summoning.

Magnus is still not very good, compare Magnus to Gulliman. Gulliman can hide behind bodies to avoid being smacked with bigger weapons. Magnus cannot. Further more the Spell which prevents models from using thier invul save makes Magnus a 400+ point sitting duck who will die from just 16 BS 3+ Lascannons or 12 Melta shots inside melta range thats with the -1 from the changling.Gulliman gets hit with that spell and he laughs as your forced to shoot at his tac marines instead. Not to mention to get that 3++ rerolling 1s you need to get a spell off if it gets denied or you just fail to cast your durability suffers. Simply put to get Magnus to that level of durability you have too many things that can go wrong, and when one thig does he won't lost the turn.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Alright, guys.

I'm Daemons for life, but I've been fiddling with this idea for awhile now and would like some feedback from you CSM folks.

Word Bearers batallion, 3x Sorcerers with jump packs, 3x 40 cultists blobs.
Second batallion, Changeling, Daemon Prince w/ wings and claws, 3x 10 Brimstones, and some exalted Flamers
Supreme Command w/ 5 Malefic lords

Leaves 2-300pts for summoning. You deep strike the sorcerers between 1-3 and summon a huge blob of daemons w/ dark pact, while bouncing the cultists around with the cultists Stratagem.

Basically it's a very large CSM horde with Daemon backup for a smaller horde/smites.

Opinion?

How many Exalted Flamers? You could get another CP by putting them in a detachment with one of the Malefic Lords...

I'm certainly interested in hearing how this turns out, it's such an unorthodox list it's difficult to assess. It does seem to cover a lot of bases. Probably going to struggle when opponents deny Cultists entry points in their rear...