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While daemon princes are now much better than lords, there is one function to a lord. You can take a lord on a jump pack who can now deep strike in while you can't teleport in a prince.

So, you can give that lord's reroll 1 to hit aura exactly where you want, even up the field when you play a jump pack lord (and its just 93 points), whereas for the flying Daemon prince you have to fly it up the board, and it costs at least double that of the jump pack lord.

Each are great in their own way. Once you play a flying daemon prince, you need an escort of fodder around it as it flies its way up the board, even if its just one or two squads of cultists who are advancing up the field with it. This may change your entire army's composition substantially. (because what if you were playing a shooty army or a deep strike army).

You can also put a Lord in a rhino full of berserkers and have less drops in and effort to go first. Not amazing, but still a thing.

CSM Princes don't have allegiance abilities, do they?

As in Ephermal form, disgusting resilience, etc

They do not; they have to pick an allegiance, but you don't get anything out of it other than the keyword.

Emperor's children princes are just strictly better chaos daemon slaanesh daemon princes which is quite funny. Though I suppose this will change once chaos daemons get there own codex.

What are the overall opinions about the Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer?

this update changes everything for me. I've always loved lucius and the emperor's children, and had been trying to work an effective list with noise marines and lucius while still being competitive, and now I can with a lot more flexibility.
I'm thinking of running my biker sorcerer with some bikers supporting a winged prince, 9 s10 attacks on the move... already sounds fun

You guys think the following* is "good" enough to field on tournaments? I love my noise Marines, but are they worth taking in a Black Legion?

*
5 Noisemarines, 3 Sonicblaster, 1 Bass, Champ with Siren
5 Noisemarines, 3 Sonicblaster, 1 Bass, Champ with SIren
all together in a Rhino

And guys what do you think about plague marines going into cc? Their new flail of corruption with overflowing dmg seems to be really nice. It's nice to remove chaff and also it can basically one hit Terminators

Hmm, they'd actually be pretty solid I reckon. Give two guys the flails and then give the rest of the unit bubotic axes and they'll do quite a lot of damage. Chosen with power axes do similar amounts of damage but don't have the extra toughness or Disgustingly Resilient of the Plague Marines.

Deepstrike a lord in with Obliterators. Reroll 1s.
Slaanesh fire twice 2 command points.

Life is good.

saint_red wrote:
Hmm, they'd actually be pretty solid I reckon. Give two guys the flails and then give the rest of the unit bubotic axes and they'll do quite a lot of damage. Chosen with power axes do similar amounts of damage but don't have the extra toughness or Disgustingly Resilient of the Plague Marines.

If the guys with flail take axe as well they have one more attack. I think they look pretty solid in eg NL with icon of despair. Unit of 5 plague marines with 5 axes and 2 flails is 145 points. 155 with icon.

Mazzyx wrote:
Noise Marines I think might be my favorite unit right now. The amount of damage I can do with is insane. Blastmasters are missile launchers but hyped up. Sonic blasters put out tons of damage. They are mean in close combat. And even in death they break units. I wish I had more actually converted, it is just expensive.

Anyone try out the Possessed since the upgrade in an actual game? I really want to try them in a land raider with apostle+exalted champion support.

Yes the apostle+exalted champion combo would be good to try out. Pity landraiders are so expensive and can only hold ten

Gearing up for a tournament this coming weekend, my Night Lords list has developed a strong core I think, but I've got 220 points left to spend, which leaves me wondering, what are our best supporting units?

Rough List:

Demon Prince, MoT, Talons
Lord with Jump Pack, MoT, Claws of the Black Hunt
Socerer W/Jump Pack
Sorcerer on bike

3 units of 10 cultists
5 Slaanesh Terminators w Combi Plasma and Power Fists
15 Raptors with mark of Khorne (3 plasma pistols)
5 Raptors with Mark of Slaanesh (2 Multi-Melta, 1x Combi Melta)
5 Bikers w/MoN, 2 Multi-Meltas, 1x Combi Melta, Icon of Despair
5x Warp Talons w/MoK
1x Chaos Spawn
1x Chaos Spawn

1780 points.

So I'm wondering, should I take some obliterators for added firepower? Maybe a Heldrake to deal with opposing flyers? A predator with lots of Lascannons? I've got 8 command points, and Marks stacked throughout so that I can buff the units that might be having a hard time.

Or maybe my beloved contemptor.... haha, it's a hard choice!

No love for bikes?

With Warp Talons being ludicrously good, I'm sure there could be some mileage over dropping in talons and raptors shooting bikes up the board since they are so fast and following up with some rhinos with zerkers inside.

One hell of a choppy fast moving army. No screens to protect the rhinos though....

Kubi258 wrote:

saint_red wrote:
Hmm, they'd actually be pretty solid I reckon. Give two guys the flails and then give the rest of the unit bubotic axes and they'll do quite a lot of damage. Chosen with power axes do similar amounts of damage but don't have the extra toughness or Disgustingly Resilient of the Plague Marines.

If the guys with flail take axe as well they have one more attack. I think they look pretty solid in eg NL with icon of despair. Unit of 5 plague marines with 5 axes and 2 flails is 145 points. 155 with icon.

The flail doesn't benefit from extra attacks. You get d3 attacks instead of normal attacks, not d3 per attack.

Bluthusten wrote:
You guys think the following* is "good" enough to field on tournaments? I love my noise Marines, but are they worth taking in a Black Legion?

*
5 Noisemarines, 3 Sonicblaster, 1 Bass, Champ with Siren
5 Noisemarines, 3 Sonicblaster, 1 Bass, Champ with SIren
all together in a Rhino

I don't think it is worth giving them a rhino, they are more than happy to foot slog, also weirdly slaanesh units that are oriented towards shooting prefer to be in big squads since it lets them take full advantage of endless cacophony.

You only get +1 attack with double knives, knife + axe or mace + axe. The flail is still worth it at only 10 points and is basically the equivalent of 2, 4 or 6 attacks depending on what you roll on the D3.

If I were to run a unit of Plagues I'd probably take 9 of them in a Rhino with a Sorcerer to throw miasma of pestilence and prescience on them. Once they get stuck in it'll take a lot of work to get rid of them. For reference, a unit of 5 terminators with power axes are only killing 1 guy per turn.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
No love for bikes?

With Warp Talons being ludicrously good, I'm sure there could be some mileage over dropping in talons and raptors shooting bikes up the board since they are so fast and following up with some rhinos with zerkers inside.

One hell of a choppy fast moving army. No screens to protect the rhinos though....

My plan is currently a Renegade Detachment with Daemon Prince and Bikes and Raptors with 2x flamer 1x Combi Flamer.
An Alpha Legion Firebase of Rapiers Havocs and Sorceror
Finally an Iron Warriors Detachment with Nurgle Sorceror with Miasma for the Alpha heavies and the Morale Trait, Cultists (To fill in deployment around the Alpha Legion and come back in a Tide of Traitors) Combi Plas Slaanesh Terms, Berserkers in a Rhino and a Contemptor.

Gonna have to run things cheap but seems promising.

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I can't find any options for sorcerer's on bikes in the new CSM dex. Am I missing something?

 tinfoil wrote:
Sorry if I'm being dense, but I can't find any options for sorcerer's on bikes in the new CSM dex. Am I missing something?

You're not, no rules in the dex for models GW no longer produces.

 Eldarain wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
No love for bikes?

With Warp Talons being ludicrously good, I'm sure there could be some mileage over dropping in talons and raptors shooting bikes up the board since they are so fast and following up with some rhinos with zerkers inside.

One hell of a choppy fast moving army. No screens to protect the rhinos though....

My plan is currently a Renegade Detachment with Daemon Prince and Bikes and Raptors with 2x flamer 1x Combi Flamer.
An Alpha Legion Firebase of Rapiers Havocs and Sorceror
Finally an Iron Warriors Detachment with unupgraded Lord with Morale Trait, Cultists (To fill in deployment around the Alpha Legion and come back in a Tide of Traitors) Combi Plas Slaanesh Terms, Berserkers in a Rhino and a Contemptor.

Gonna have to run things cheap but seems promising.

Are there some ideas to build the weapons? Cause at the moment we have no models for our melee options :/

Im gonna play 7. 4x axe+knife, 2 flails, 1 champ with fist. Together with a Sorcerer and maybe a Apostle with black mace in a Rhino

Bluthusten wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
No love for bikes?

With Warp Talons being ludicrously good, I'm sure there could be some mileage over dropping in talons and raptors shooting bikes up the board since they are so fast and following up with some rhinos with zerkers inside.

One hell of a choppy fast moving army. No screens to protect the rhinos though....

My plan is currently a Renegade Detachment with Daemon Prince and Bikes and Raptors with 2x flamer 1x Combi Flamer.
An Alpha Legion Firebase of Rapiers Havocs and Sorceror
Finally an Iron Warriors Detachment with unupgraded Lord with Morale Trait, Cultists (To fill in deployment around the Alpha Legion and come back in a Tide of Traitors) Combi Plas Slaanesh Terms, Berserkers in a Rhino and a Contemptor.

Gonna have to run things cheap but seems promising.

Are there some ideas to build the weapons? Cause at the moment we have no models for our melee options :/

Im gonna play 7. 4x axe+knife, 2 flails, 1 champ with fist. Together with a Sorcerer and maybe a Apostle with black mace in a Rhino

New Death Guard are getting released very soon, likely with a new Plague Marine multi-part kit.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
No love for bikes?

With Warp Talons being ludicrously good, I'm sure there could be some mileage over dropping in talons and raptors shooting bikes up the board since they are so fast and following up with some rhinos with zerkers inside.

One hell of a choppy fast moving army. No screens to protect the rhinos though....

Ran something similar to this the other day, minus warp talons. Bikes are indeed very fast and very hitty. I was running them as Nurgle, and casting Miasma of Pestilence on them for a -1 to hit made them every nastier. Only ended up losing one biker out a squad of 6 by the end of the game.

Raptors are something I'm working on learning how to use properly. Much success with Melta-kill teams, next scheme is 15 of them with MoK so I can double attack with them if need be. Zerkers just don't seem to fit my style of play, I have trouble driving them home.

 Arkaine wrote:
Black Legion specifically may not have any improvement but Chaos as a whole just went to bonkers levels.

You're not required to have an entire detachment of World Eaters or Emperor's Children to benefit from making them World Eaters or Emperor's Children.

So expect to see Troop Berzerkers and Troop Noise Marines in mixed CSM detachments too. Previously Berzerker Horde was an army rule. Now it's a unit ability.

I love how literally you read the rules. Every time I am wondering about how a rule is worded, there's Arkaine making the case for how it allows an absurd army list to happen. Until GW hires you as a proofreader, all of their books will be flawed.

That said - not sure who wants to give up +1 on the charge, fight first or other legion traits just to have these units as troops. Feels like it would make more sense to take them as elites.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 tinfoil wrote:
Sorry if I'm being dense, but I can't find any options for sorcerer's on bikes in the new CSM dex. Am I missing something?

You're not, no rules in the dex for models GW no longer produces.

You can still use the base points in the index for the model instead.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
Black Legion specifically may not have any improvement but Chaos as a whole just went to bonkers levels.

You're not required to have an entire detachment of World Eaters or Emperor's Children to benefit from making them World Eaters or Emperor's Children.

So expect to see Troop Berzerkers and Troop Noise Marines in mixed CSM detachments too. Previously Berzerker Horde was an army rule. Now it's a unit ability.

I love how literally you read the rules. Every time I am wondering about how a rule is worded, there's Arkaine making the case for how it allows an absurd army list to happen. Until GW hires you as a proofreader, all of their books will be flawed.

That said - not sure who wants to give up +1 on the charge, fight first or other legion traits just to have these units as troops. Feels like it would make more sense to take them as elites.

You take them in a separate detachment so you get to generate an extra +3 CP.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:
Gearing up for a tournament this coming weekend, my Night Lords list has developed a strong core I think, but I've got 220 points left to spend, which leaves me wondering, what are our best supporting units?

Rough List:

Demon Prince, MoT, Talons
Lord with Jump Pack, MoT, Claws of the Black Hunt
Socerer W/Jump Pack
Sorcerer on bike

3 units of 10 cultists
5 Slaanesh Terminators w Combi Plasma and Power Fists
15 Raptors with mark of Khorne (3 plasma pistols)
5 Raptors with Mark of Slaanesh (2 Multi-Melta, 1x Combi Melta)
5 Bikers w/MoN, 2 Multi-Meltas, 1x Combi Melta, Icon of Despair
5x Warp Talons w/MoK
1x Chaos Spawn
1x Chaos Spawn

1780 points.

So I'm wondering, should I take some obliterators for added firepower? Maybe a Heldrake to deal with opposing flyers? A predator with lots of Lascannons? I've got 8 command points, and Marks stacked throughout so that I can buff the units that might be having a hard time.

Or maybe my beloved contemptor.... haha, it's a hard choice!

This question definitely belongs in army lists forum. I personally love what Laspreds can do right now, but Defilers are actually pretty useful again, and I have seen some good things with Forgefiends with prescience / warp time / Daemonforge. Don't limit yourself.

Well, if you don't really want Cultists or Horrors, but do want a Battalion, and you're planning on bringing along non-CSM HQs like Ahriman or Malefic Lords, I could see bringing Troops Noise Marines.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Bluthusten wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
No love for bikes?

With Warp Talons being ludicrously good, I'm sure there could be some mileage over dropping in talons and raptors shooting bikes up the board since they are so fast and following up with some rhinos with zerkers inside.

One hell of a choppy fast moving army. No screens to protect the rhinos though....

My plan is currently a Renegade Detachment with Daemon Prince and Bikes and Raptors with 2x flamer 1x Combi Flamer.
An Alpha Legion Firebase of Rapiers Havocs and Sorceror
Finally an Iron Warriors Detachment with unupgraded Lord with Morale Trait, Cultists (To fill in deployment around the Alpha Legion and come back in a Tide of Traitors) Combi Plas Slaanesh Terms, Berserkers in a Rhino and a Contemptor.

Gonna have to run things cheap but seems promising.

Are there some ideas to build the weapons? Cause at the moment we have no models for our melee options :/

Im gonna play 7. 4x axe+knife, 2 flails, 1 champ with fist. Together with a Sorcerer and maybe a Apostle with black mace in a Rhino

New Death Guard are getting released very soon, likely with a new Plague Marine multi-part kit.

is there a release date ? Can't find something on the internet :/