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With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Working on my Iron warriors an wanted some opinions for the "core" of my list I'm building

- Hellwright
- x2 Hellforged contemptor with dual hellclaw w/soul burner
- x2 10 man CSM sqads with plasma and rhino
- 20 man cultist squad
The hellwright and contemptors are expensive but I jut look at the soulburners and I just get a big grin

All that plasma and 2+ to hit Mortal Wounds look like they want a mobile Chaos Lord, be it bike or jump pack. Or maybe even a Prince. I guess you've got various other elites and HQ to bring in to make it a couple of detachments?

Yeah I planned on sticking a Jumplord in there as I haven't made a Biker lord yet as I'm using my 30k IW. I thought about a winged fleshmetal demon prince with sword, warpbolter, mark of slannesh for the +5 FNP psychic power, and unholy vigour warlord trait. I'm not sure if he's a good choice considering I've already invested so many points, most on my list are in the 1500-2000 range.

As for what all I've got
10 Lascannons marines
10 autocannon marines
10 missle marines
40 regular marines,
10 Jump marines
20 combibolter cataphractii terminators (10 PF 10 CF)
5 plasma gunners
5 melta gunners
5 flamers
3 quad launchers (figure I'll proxy them as other types of rapier platforms)
3 contemptor dreads
Autocannon & missle Deredeo
Leviathan
Whirlwind scorpius
3 Rhinos
Landraider Proteus
Typhon
Spartan
Mastodon

x2 sicarans, x2 predators, bikers, a fellblade and other things are on the to buy list for both 40&30k. any suggestions on what to add is appreciated

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
I opened a thread in YMTC here.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/737361.page#9570296

Thanks for making that thread Sersi, and that it got resolved.

Yeah, I'm definitely giving Noise Marines another look knowing that they get all their shots when they die. I was pretty leery of 19 point single-wound models before.

 Sersi wrote:
With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

From the codex:
"[..]or piles in and fights as if it were the fight phase if there are enemies within 1". [..]"

So, yes, it sounds like they get to fight again.

 Ir0njack wrote:
any suggestions on what to add is appreciated

Get some flyers in there! Fire Raptor or maybe something bigger (then give it Mark of Nurgle and throw on the power for a total of -2 to hit against your flyer).

Just seems like the next thing to add since you have so much ground support.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
any suggestions on what to add is appreciated

Get some flyers in there! Fire Raptor or maybe something bigger (then give it Mark of Nurgle and throw on the power for a total of -2 to hit against your flyer).

Just seems like the next thing to add since you have so much ground support.

Hah! I hadn't even thought of that, Fireraptor with -2 to hit it sound just down right hilarious. I'm not sure if the lascannon or hellfire missles are the better choice. Lascannon are going to wound stuff easier and have a higher potential damage, but the range of hellfire missiles and the fact they do a flat 3 for damage makes me want to favor them as I've majorly whiffed lascannon damage rolls before.

eternalxfl wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

From the codex:
"[..]or piles in and fights as if it were the fight phase if there are enemies within 1". [..]"

So, yes, it sounds like they get to fight again.

Wow...that's what I thought. Nasty with a power scourge; potentially 14 strength 8 attacks. That's really, good on a Sonic Dreadnought since its will strike first in follow on turns. With 8 wounds is should trigger at least once per game on average.

 Ir0njack wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
any suggestions on what to add is appreciated

Get some flyers in there! Fire Raptor or maybe something bigger (then give it Mark of Nurgle and throw on the power for a total of -2 to hit against your flyer).

Just seems like the next thing to add since you have so much ground support.

Hah! I hadn't even thought of that, Fireraptor with -2 to hit it sound just down right hilarious. I'm not sure if the lascannon or hellfire missles are the better choice. Lascannon are going to wound stuff easier and have a higher potential damage, but the range of hellfire missiles and the fact they do a flat 3 for damage makes me want to favor them as I've majorly whiffed lascannon damage rolls before.

If you play against a lot of T8 models then take Lascannons, if not take the missiles. (I personally play against a lot of toughness 8 high wound models so I took the Lascannons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sersi wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

From the codex:
"[..]or piles in and fights as if it were the fight phase if there are enemies within 1". [..]"

So, yes, it sounds like they get to fight again.

Wow...that's what I thought. Nasty with a power scourge; potentially 14 strength 8 attacks. That's really, good on a Sonic Dreadnought since its will strike first in follow on turns.

Still only activates on a 6 though.

True but with 8 wounds it should trigger at least once per game on average.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
any suggestions on what to add is appreciated

Get some flyers in there! Fire Raptor or maybe something bigger (then give it Mark of Nurgle and throw on the power for a total of -2 to hit against your flyer).

Just seems like the next thing to add since you have so much ground support.

Hah! I hadn't even thought of that, Fireraptor with -2 to hit it sound just down right hilarious. I'm not sure if the lascannon or hellfire missles are the better choice. Lascannon are going to wound stuff easier and have a higher potential damage, but the range of hellfire missiles and the fact they do a flat 3 for damage makes me want to favor them as I've majorly whiffed lascannon damage rolls before.

If you play against a lot of T8 models then take Lascannons, if not take the missiles. (I personally play against a lot of toughness 8 high wound models so I took the Lascannons)

Lascannons, while expensive, give you 4 shots. Missiles are only Heavy 2.

 Sersi wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

From the codex:
"[..]or piles in and fights as if it were the fight phase if there are enemies within 1". [..]"

So, yes, it sounds like they get to fight again.

Wow...that's what I thought. Nasty with a power scourge; potentially 14 strength 8 attacks. That's really, good on a Sonic Dreadnought since its will strike first in follow on turns. With 8 wounds is should trigger at least once per game on average.

i've been thinking similar as well, except i was planning on one with 2 blastmaster + missile launcher and a fwq decimator, or 2 brutes with 2 blast and scourge, undecided yet

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
I opened a thread in YMTC here.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/737361.page#9570296

Thanks for making that thread Sersi, and that it got resolved.

Yeah, I'm definitely giving Noise Marines another look knowing that they get all their shots when they die. I was pretty leery of 19 point single-wound models before.

They are really good, I understand where you're coming from but they lack allot of weaknesses regular tactical marines possess, you really need to use them in practice to appreciate them.

I've had noise marines beat an equal number of terminators because of death to the false emperor + music of the apocalypse killing the squads that failed to charge it was amazing.

 Sersi wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

From the codex:
"[..]or piles in and fights as if it were the fight phase if there are enemies within 1". [..]"

So, yes, it sounds like they get to fight again.

Wow...that's what I thought. Nasty with a power scourge; potentially 14 strength 8 attacks. That's really, good on a Sonic Dreadnought since its will strike first in follow on turns. With 8 wounds is should trigger at least once per game on average.

The power scourge is soooo good, I'd honestly never swap it for a missile launcher even if the missile launcher makes fire frenzy much better just because the versatility duel blastmaster + scourge provides.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thundertau wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
With the Helbrute if Crazed is triggered in the fight phase, you get to fight twice?

From the codex:
"[..]or piles in and fights as if it were the fight phase if there are enemies within 1". [..]"

So, yes, it sounds like they get to fight again.

Wow...that's what I thought. Nasty with a power scourge; potentially 14 strength 8 attacks. That's really, good on a Sonic Dreadnought since its will strike first in follow on turns. With 8 wounds is should trigger at least once per game on average.

i've been thinking similar as well, except i was planning on one with 2 blastmaster + missile launcher and a fwq decimator, or 2 brutes with 2 blast and scourge, undecided yet

I wouldn't take the missile launcher although it makes there shooting better, losing a scourge makes the brute significantly less versatile it also makes it easy prey for disruption units who engage you in CQC just to deny your shooting, while a brute with a scourge actually has a chance to murder what ever tries this on it. No close combat unit will respect your missile launcher brute personal space :p

Sersi wrote:True but with 8 wounds it should trigger at least once per game on average.

Aye but you don't roll per wound, you roll if it has suffered a wound in that phase. So you could take 7 wounds in 1 phase and only get to roll once.

Ghorgul wrote:Lascannons, while expensive, give you 4 shots. Missiles are only Heavy 2.

They both give you 4 shots since the Raptor is armed either with 2 twin Lascannons or 2 twin missiles.

Oh, good point about it being per phase. So not as awesome. But that one time it does go off...

Anyone got use from the Exalted Champion yet? What have you been running him with? Havn't seen him get mentioned much online here.

Anyone finding any other big winners? Discovered Slaanesh Daemon Princes w/ the new Slaanesh Elixir.

S8, 8 Attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s ain't half bad.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
Here you go!

Spoiler:

Ty very much sir

 doc1234 wrote:
Anyone got use from the Exalted Champion yet? What have you been running him with? Havn't seen him get mentioned much online here.

I think he's mainly good with a melee unit, like Possessed or Berzerkers, where rerolls to-wound can be clutch. Combines well with a Dark Apostle. I still need to give my guys a proper test (my first Chaos game in 8th didn't go too well because of my poor tactics and I've yet to play another), but I think a core of many of my CSM lists, or at least my World Eaters, will be 3 units of Berzerkers in Rhinos, with a Dark Apostle and Exalted Champion.

Re-rolls are how you win games and this is especially true in 8th. Exalted champion pairs super well with a dark apostle. Together they represent around 150pts and instantly buff CC units, which chaos has a lot of, to insanely effective levels.

Recently I ran this combo in a rhino with berserkers and it just deleted the Incarne and a wraithguard unit.

Also useful with possessed, CC noise Marines, and really anything with lots of attacks.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Ghorgul wrote:Lascannons, while expensive, give you 4 shots. Missiles are only Heavy 2.

They both give you 4 shots since the Raptor is armed either with 2 twin Lascannons or 2 twin missiles.

Nothing in the unit entry implies that you get 2 sets of missiles. It just reads 'Hellstrike missiles', and stats say they are heavy 2.
I would love them to be Heavy 4, but FW index does not support this.

I have him written in for my Konor list this week with a possessed unit and an apostle in a LR.

Basically you can get your CC units with some buffs now hitting on 2s (prescience) rerolling misses (Apostle) or at least rerolling 1s with a Prince and wounding MEQs on 2s with VotLW rerolling 1s.

This should delete almost anything. If you are running Emps Children like I do you can make it nastier with a banner of excess so verse Imperium you get extra attacks on a 4. And the excessive violence stratagem for more attacks for each model you remove. Can even delete some blob squads with this.

Right now I want to run mine with a chain sword and either a chain axe or power axe which as far as I can tell is legal. Gives the champ a ton of attacks and a lot of damage in cc on the cheap.

Exalted champion looks awesome. I haven't used him myself, but the buff aura is actually better than what SM get, they have re-roll 1's to wound both shooting and fight phase.
Although there is one thing I don't get: SM liutenant can get jump pack but Exalted Champion is strickly a footslogger! This forces one to use transports, which is fine as the best melee unit we have, the berserkers, should have transport available anyway.

Can't find the profile for exalted champion please point me in the right direction.

Its in the Codex, not the Index.

Skimming through the new book, I realized Chaos Marine troops (yes I know, why take them over cultists for troop tax...) can take two Special Weapons OR Heavy Weapons. Makes for specializing them alot easier. So, instead of being stuck with two plasma guns for range or one plasma, one AC, you can give them two AC or HB, so they can stick to back-objectives and provide fire support.
Speaking of which, what would be the best heavy weapons to give to Marine troops? I'm thinking HBs for long range support when fighting GEQ, and Plasma for MEQ or even TEQ.

Regular Marines are actually terrible for camping. Id say nothing.

If you must, Lascannons.

I take 6 Chaos marine units and slap a Lascannon in every one.

 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Skimming through the new book, I realized Chaos Marine troops (yes I know, why take them over cultists for troop tax...) can take two Special Weapons OR Heavy Weapons. Makes for specializing them alot easier. So, instead of being stuck with two plasma guns for range or one plasma, one AC, you can give them two AC or HB, so they can stick to back-objectives and provide fire support.
Speaking of which, what would be the best heavy weapons to give to Marine troops? I'm thinking HBs for long range support when fighting GEQ, and Plasma for MEQ or even TEQ.

Why are you taking them in units of 10? Units of 5 fills troops slots faster, gives the same number of special/heavy weapon (more if you want to kit out the sarges), and doesn't have as many issues with morale. You can hav both in one transport as well.

Is there a general CSM tactica somewhere I can look over?

RE taking small units to avoid morale. How much does this become a liability when it's kill points, and when it's tactical objectives? I've seen games where an MSU list has no viable win other than to table the enemy...

Also: I got a box of Rubricae and I want to add some Tzeentchian troops to my Word Bearers. I'm hesitant to build them as is - I'm planning to add Cult units as allied Legion detachments - but for any given Mortal infantry unit, I'm struggling to see one that's really suited to Icon of Flame. I guess it's just something they'll bring along with the Mark of allowing a sorcerer to enhance or create their invulnerable save? So I suppose the question is, what Icon-bearing unit benefits the most from it? Or maybe just give the schemer token representation in a few anti-infantry Havoc units, since the really potent gunners want access to EC, the solid brawlers want free re-rolls on charges or FNP+enhanced DttFE, and the super mobile stuff probably prefers to run around under Banners of Despair...

...I ultimately want to field a big Possessed unit for each god, and access to 4++ on a 2W unit is pretty decent. Though I can't help but think that 5++ & FNP & better DttFE is better, especially against 2D shooting, and will be giving Slaanesh priority there.