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I've given my GBS a whirl. No where near as durable as previous editions (I wrote the 4Chan entry on it). It moves 12" and charges 3D6", you absolutely have to use its speed unless you're in a fortunate position to not be facing armies with much in the way of long range at fire. A DP with wings for re-rolls or Demonforge stratagem is a fair backup. On the counterside it will absolutely maim anything it shoots or chargers.
To give you an example, I've suffered a unit of 5 deffkoptas (circa 400pts) take half its wounds. In another instance, I've also had a pair of land speeders take off a good 5 wounds in a single turn at 48" range, far outside the reach of the scorpion.
Personally, it should have the same rules for enemies/allies in regards to psychic powers (as in, if enemies can cast curses that don't cause mortal wounds on it, allies should be able to cast powers that bless the scorpion). It should also have the same number of wounds as a Knight, 20 wounds is a bit of BS for its whopping 625pts tbh as it's not THAT durable even with a 3+/5++, heal 1 wound per turn and T8. I'd definitely say slightly overpriced for what it does, i'd personally say 500 would be more appropriate when I think of it relative to other LoW choices such as Magnus, Knights and Roboute.
Cool, thanks for the reply. Sounds about right, based on the stats. Daemonforge FTW, seriously. I guess you'd have to burn 2 CP to use it during shooting and assault, though? Oh well.
As for dropping the points/increasing wounds, you're totally right. I REALLY hope Forge World takes the same approach to errata that GW has, but I have a bad feeling they're just not gonna touch the books/update them at all at any point. Seems like their rules writers are either too busy or uninterested (I'll give them the benefit of the doubt though) to do so.
Put Berzerkers to work today, not that it's a surprise to anyone but they will absolutely SLAUGHTER stuff on the charge. I love it! They die quite easily, but a unit of 10 packing axes/swords/fist on champ is just glorious murder.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 03:24:51
Cephalobeard wrote: How are people feeling about Noise Marines, in general? I'm an enormous fan on paper, just trying to gauge how much I want to plunge in to buying loads of them.
Current idea is two squads of 20-- infiltrating with Alpha Legion. 60 Shots each, can double tap with cacophony, etc.
Any success, nerds?
I played 3 units of 10 in my last game 2500pts, vs genestealer cults, the 1 unit he alpha striked and completely killed took out a full unit of 20 genestealers who had failed to charge another of my noise marine units, there anti light infantry firepower is very potent.
I've had games vs squishy alpha strike armies like scions and genestealer cults where I've devastated there army on there first turn (me going second) this is a small sample size however since I only generally get to play once maybe twice a week. I may try out a big unit of 20 since I do own 50 noise marines.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 03:19:13
Competitively, you really need rhinos. If your opponent goes first, it's a sad day for units that aren't in a rhino.
Two squads of 20 noise marines is pretty overkill IMO. So many shots! They're great but I feel like your opponent will quickly run out of optimal targets for them to shoot.
Just in general, buffing one ten man squad with prescience and VOTLW (and double firing) I've found to be entirely sufficient. Toss in a lord to re-roll those 1's to hit if you want! But YMMV.
I turn myself towards your wisdom, traitor brothers. I have suffered several defeats against the Primaris and I seriously need your help to get the hang of how to crush them. One of my friend who plays Primaris has something alongs those lines :
Some nice fellow gave away their Chaos Space Marines collection last night. I ended up with 10 noise marines and someone had 40 plus khorne berserkers now. I might want to trade with him for 10 so I can have from 20 to 30 in my army. Is running 20 khorne
berserkers and 10 noise marines just as good as running 30 khorne berserkers in an army? Thanks.
BillyN831 wrote: Some nice fellow gave away their Chaos Space Marines collection last night. I ended up with 10 noise marines and someone had 40 plus khorne berserkers now. I might want to trade with him for 10 so I can have from 20 to 30 in my army. Is running 20 khorne
berserkers and 10 noise marines just as good as running 30 khorne berserkers in an army? Thanks.
It's better. You need a balance of shooting and close combat. Noise Marines are pretty potent shooters, and 2 squads of Berzerkers are a very real threat.
-Chaos lord in terminator armor with chainfist.
-Lord of Contagion / Chaos Lord of Nurgle in terminator armour.
-Daemon Prince with wings and Hellforged sword x2
-Dark Apostle x2 (can be proxy as exalted champion)
-Great Unclean One.
-Herald of Nurgle x2.
-Sorcerer in Terminator armour.
-Malignant Plaguecaster / Sorcer of Nurgle.
-Kharn
+Troops.++
-Chaos Space Marines x70 (10 with CCW, 14 with plasma/melta, rest with bolters).
-Nurglings x3.
-Plaguebearers x40 (2 Icons, 2 instruments, 2 champ).
-Poxwalkers / Chaos Cultists x20
Elite.
-Chaos Terminators x15.
-Plague Marines x14 (2x Dark Imperium set).
-Noxious Blightbringer.
-Contemptor Dreadnoughts x3 (one with CCW and Assault cannon, One with two assault cannons, one with two twin lasc)
Fast Attack.
-Chaos Bikers x6
-Plague Drones x3
Heavy support.
-Land Raider x3
-Predator.
-Vindicator x2.
-Havocs x10 (4 ML, 4 Heavy Bolters).
-Soul Grinder.
-Leviathan Dreadnought
Khornate25 wrote: I turn myself towards your wisdom, traitor brothers. I have suffered several defeats against the Primaris and I seriously need your help to get the hang of how to crush them. One of my friend who plays Primaris has something alongs those lines :
I usually have difficulty dealing with his hellblasters and interceptors (they tend to obliterate my biggest forces).
How can I deal with this ?
Dropping a max squad of Warp Talons and a Sorcerer will let you Warptime into plenty of Hellblasters and Aggressors without facing OW. He's got no DTW so it's a safe play, and even if he gets a Librarian there's creative ways around it. You'll inflict modest casualties, but most importantly shut down their shooting (UNLESS THEY ARE ULTRAMARINES ), giving your other units the chance to get in there. For the second psychic power, the God-specific ones and Prescience are strong candidates.
Also a possibility is the Kharybdis full of Noise Marines. Sounds like they'll have a target-rich environment.
You can outrange his firepower with Havocs or Predators, and Cultists will screen the Inceptors. If you recycle a big Cultist squad and send it to shoot Hellblasters, it'll kill more than its own points value.
Dropping in a squad of 10 combi plas terminators with mark of slaanesh is a great way to ruin a primaris player's day. Toss a lord nearby for re-rolls of 1. Overcharge with impunity. Fire twice. Delete many many marines.
The leviathan with double butcher cannons is also great against them because it has a damage profile of 2. So every failed save is a dead primaris. And that Dreadnought is really tough to kill.
Re: the zerker debate - I find 10 noise marines to be enough because you need to put them in a rhino in case you go second. Having a second squad in another rhino is pretty good but the noise marines really want to fire twice to maximize their efficiency. So personally, I'd probably go with more zerkers and stick with 10 noise marines. But given how many zerkers you have, I would make that trade just to have the flexibility. I haven't fielded more than 2 10 man squads of zerkers in a long time (I did do 60 early on in the edition - I just found it to be not as efficient because usually my zerkers were trading their lives for 4 point cultists or 3 point Conscripts. Not worth). Zerkers need a rhino also
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 11:51:55
luke1705 wrote: Dropping in a squad of 10 combi plas terminators with mark of slaanesh is a great way to ruin a primaris player's day. Toss a lord nearby for re-rolls of 1. Overcharge with impunity. Fire twice. Delete many many marines.
The leviathan with double butcher cannons is also great against them because it has a damage profile of 2. So every failed save is a dead primaris. And that Dreadnought is really tough to kill.
Spot on, I'd throw in a Sorcerer for Prescience and Ecstatic Agonies on the Terminators. EA almost halves the effectiveness of overcharged Plasma vs 2W by reducing most shots' damage to one. You may want to hold this unit in reserve whilst you take out speed bumps to their success, though - in a plasma fight you want to get the first shot, and with a screening unit the Hellblasters' 15" double tap range has Termies at a disadvantage.
Havocs or Chosen with Plasma and a Lord make for a competent home guard. They can hide in a Rhino and from that have a 21" double tap threat radius - Primaris will need full commitment to overwhelm a line with that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 12:04:11
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++
Legion: Black Legion
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour: Combi-plasma, No Chaos Mark, Power sword, The Murder Sword
+ Elites +
Chaos Terminators: Mark of Slaanesh
Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++
Legion: Black Legion
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour: Combi-plasma, No Chaos Mark, Power sword, The Murder Sword
+ Elites +
Chaos Terminators: Mark of Slaanesh
Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Hmm, your Havocs are not going to do much. Five guys, all with plasma, they're going to get neutered by Bolt Rifles or those Inceptor carbines, especially since there's no other good targets for small arms fire. They want Rhinos for protection. Alternatively, a Battalion with Cultists - your Terminators will eat three CP on arrival.
Terminator Murder Sword guy isn't going to catch his prey, he's likely not even going to get to swing at any troopers - that's an Artefact that wants a mobile carrier unless it's just there because it's a freebie (though in that case, I'd prefer a Sorcerer with +1 on Smite).
Sure, sometimes a big squad is going to struggle to find enough targets for an Endless Cacophony. If the other squad is full of Fists and is Khornate, it's not a bad target for Warptime. And splitting ten into two fives makes it easier to fill out a Vanguard.
Sure, sometimes a big squad is going to struggle to find enough targets for an Endless Cacophony. If the other squad is full of Fists and is Khornate, it's not a bad target for Warptime. And splitting ten into two fives makes it easier to fill out a Vanguard.
1 squads gonna be 4 combi plasmas heavy flamer 1 power fist 2 chain fists 2 axes with the other squad being 4 combi meltas reaper auto cannon 3 axes 1 maul 1 power sword.
Considering dropping them alongside some oblits sorceror and either Abbadon or dual claws lord. Alot of points but has the potential to work well.
After being recommended to add a unit of Terminators (because of the model I wanted to field haha) and seeing as today's conversation seems to be termie-related, I thought I'd ask about builds.
I was thinking of adding a unit of 5 into the army, but someone said that a unit of 5 was too small? Considering how hideously expensive they are, I thought 5 was the usual unit size to throw in.
Combi-Plasma + Power Axe was the combination I was considering.
Edit: I had already planned to have one unit of Obliterators to teleport in and shoot things, in case that makes a difference. As the oblits would already be doing a bunch of shooting, perhaps the termies wouldn't need the plasma?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 14:39:04
Sure, sometimes a big squad is going to struggle to find enough targets for an Endless Cacophony. If the other squad is full of Fists and is Khornate, it's not a bad target for Warptime. And splitting ten into two fives makes it easier to fill out a Vanguard.
1 squads gonna be 4 combi plasmas heavy flamer 1 power fist 2 chain fists 2 axes with the other squad being 4 combi meltas reaper auto cannon 3 axes 1 maul 1 power sword.
Considering dropping them alongside some oblits sorceror and either Abbadon or dual claws lord. Alot of points but has the potential to work well.
Cool, let us know how it goes! I'm not sold on RAC - the fact that it's priced at the same level as combi-weapons but has much longer range suggests this close ranged firefight unit will prefer another combi instead. If they ever up it to 2D, it could be worth it again. But for now, it's a poundshop assault Cannon.
Heavy Flamers aren't bad, if you can pull off Warptime. My own termie squad is both of yours, combined into one big one, with two heavy Flamers and Icon of Wrath - not an optimal build, but the one that I liked, and it holds up well against my casual regular opponents. Wouldn't use it against all comers, though.
Khornate25 wrote:So I should take a battalion and uses cultists ?
I'd give it a go. Especially if you're playing games with objectives.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiru wrote: After being recommended to add a unit of Terminators (because of the model I wanted to field haha) and seeing as today's conversation seems to be termie-related, I thought I'd ask about builds.
I was thinking of adding a unit of 5 into the army, but someone said that a unit of 5 was too small? Considering how hideously expensive they are, I thought 5 was the usual unit size to throw in.
Combi-Plasma + Power Axe was the combination I was considering.
Sounds good, if you've not got plenty of Noise Marines who want EC then I'd add Mark of Slaanesh for plenty of dakka
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 14:37:48
Niiru wrote: After being recommended to add a unit of Terminators (because of the model I wanted to field haha) and seeing as today's conversation seems to be termie-related, I thought I'd ask about builds.
I was thinking of adding a unit of 5 into the army, but someone said that a unit of 5 was too small? Considering how hideously expensive they are, I thought 5 was the usual unit size to throw in.
Combi-Plasma + Power Axe was the combination I was considering.
Sounds good, if you've not got plenty of Noise Marines who want EC then I'd add Mark of Slaanesh for plenty of dakka
Wouldn't the Oblits be a better target for EC? Or would the terminator squad essentially replace the oblit squad in my list? I'm going to be tight for points, so if the termies can replace the oblits it miight be better... but then if the oblits are just better then maybe not.
edit: and I was considering adding two squads of 5 noise marines to my list (or one squad of 10) and using alpha infiltrate to put them in position turn 1. But I don't have a model in mind for them aha.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 15:33:44
Niiru wrote: After being recommended to add a unit of Terminators (because of the model I wanted to field haha) and seeing as today's conversation seems to be termie-related, I thought I'd ask about builds.
I was thinking of adding a unit of 5 into the army, but someone said that a unit of 5 was too small? Considering how hideously expensive they are, I thought 5 was the usual unit size to throw in.
Combi-Plasma + Power Axe was the combination I was considering.
Edit: I had already planned to have one unit of Obliterators to teleport in and shoot things, in case that makes a difference. As the oblits would already be doing a bunch of shooting, perhaps the termies wouldn't need the plasma?
5 can definitely work. It's like a medium size suicide squad. They even work with oblits. The only thing you're going to want to do is make sure you deep strike your two units on successive turns so that they can both double shoot. And somehow getting re-rolls of 1's (DP, lord, etc) and prescience is of course very nice. Personally, I'd probably go all out on that strat and try for 10 instead of 5, but maybe that's overkill for most targets anyhow. Proxy it up and see which you like better
Wouldn't the Oblits be a better target for EC? Or would the terminator squad essentially replace the oblit squad in my list? I'm going to be tight for points, so if the termies can replace the oblits it miight be better... but then if the oblits are just better then maybe not.
edit: and I was considering adding two squads of 5 noise marines to my list (or one squad of 10) and using alpha infiltrate to put them in position turn 1. But I don't have a model in mind for them aha.
Yes oblits are better, as long as they're not getting tarpitted in CC. Noise marines have usefulness in death so it's not as bad (plus they tend to do so much work on the first turn that you're pretty much good to go).
Check out the Forge World emperor's children Kakophani. They are beautiful. I'm getting my squad of 10 painted up right now.
Be wary of infiltrate. I hate rhinos with the undying passion of 1000 suns but they are pretty necessary right now to guard against going second
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 16:19:32
Niiru wrote: After being recommended to add a unit of Terminators (because of the model I wanted to field haha) and seeing as today's conversation seems to be termie-related, I thought I'd ask about builds.
I was thinking of adding a unit of 5 into the army, but someone said that a unit of 5 was too small? Considering how hideously expensive they are, I thought 5 was the usual unit size to throw in.
Combi-Plasma + Power Axe was the combination I was considering.
Edit: I had already planned to have one unit of Obliterators to teleport in and shoot things, in case that makes a difference. As the oblits would already be doing a bunch of shooting, perhaps the termies wouldn't need the plasma?
5 can definitely work. It's like a medium size suicide squad. They even work with oblits. The only thing you're going to want to do is make sure you deep strike your two units on successive turns so that they can both double shoot. And somehow getting re-rolls of 1's (DP, lord, etc) and prescience is of course very nice. Personally, I'd probably go all out on that strat and try for 10 instead of 5, but maybe that's overkill for most targets anyhow. Proxy it up and see which you like better
Wouldn't the Oblits be a better target for EC? Or would the terminator squad essentially replace the oblit squad in my list? I'm going to be tight for points, so if the termies can replace the oblits it miight be better... but then if the oblits are just better then maybe not.
edit: and I was considering adding two squads of 5 noise marines to my list (or one squad of 10) and using alpha infiltrate to put them in position turn 1. But I don't have a model in mind for them aha.
Yes oblits are better, as long as they're not getting tarpitted in CC. Noise marines have usefulness in death so it's not as bad (plus they tend to do so much work on the first turn that you're pretty much good to go).
Check out the Forge World emperor's children Kakophani. They are beautiful. I'm getting my squad of 10 painted up right now.
Be wary of infiltrate. I hate rhinos with the undying passion of 1000 suns but they are pretty necessary right now to guard against going second
My army list is very Mech heavy... maulerfiend, decimator, contemptors, deredeo. A few cultists for screen. Thats why I'm avoiding transports, as they don't fit the theme much and they use up valuable points.
One unit of oblits and one unit of termis would be expensive enough that I don't think I could also fit in a uni of noise marines. I think it's going to be 2 out of the 3. Which would be the best 2?
@nirru yes oblits are better great thing with oblits is you dont have to drop them close to the enemy to make them good. Also their guns are assault so if against a assault army like khorne you can always keep your distance moving backwards and firing.
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++
Legion: Black Legion
+ HQ +
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour: Combi-flamer, Mark of Slaanesh, Power sword
Sorcerer in Terminator Armour: Combi-bolter, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience, Warptime
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists: 20x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
Cultist Champion: Autogun
Chaos Space Marines: Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Chaos Space Marines: Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Marine w/ Boltgun
Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
+ Elites +
Chaos Terminators: No Chaos Mark
Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Terminator: Combi-plasma, Power axe
Champion of Slaanesh wrote: @nirru yes oblits are better great thing with oblits is you dont have to drop them close to the enemy to make them good. Also their guns are assault so if against a assault army like khorne you can always keep your distance moving backwards and firing.
Well, Oblits only move 4", but I guess they can advance and shoot still with a -1 to hit. Still on average more mobile than a terminator squad with their rapid fire combi plasmas. So seems a unit of oblits are a good unit to have.
So with the other units I listed, which would be better to have:
5x Terminators + 5x combi plasma + 5x power axes
or
10x Noise Marines + 8x Sonic blaster + 2x blastmaster
Edit: Or, another thought... I had planned on adding a chaos lord or sorcerer to my list with a jump pack to have it deepstrike with troops I send in, but I could instead have a lord in terminator armour, with combi-plasma and power axe. Same with a sorcerer. Means I could use those models for it. Maybe. Pricey though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 17:41:21
If I was doing 2/3 of noise marines, oblits and terminators, I would prioritize them in that order. Definitely need noise marines because the oblits and terminators are good against the same type of targets
luke1705 wrote: If I was doing 2/3 of noise marines, oblits and terminators, I would prioritize them in that order. Definitely need noise marines because the oblits and terminators are good against the same type of targets
Yeh, I may end up doing it that way... the models I planned to use for Oblits would be magnetized anyway so I could actually run them as either oblits or termies depending on the game.
What is the current thinking on HQ choices? Lord vs Sorcerer, Jumppack vs Termi armour? Or is one Prince better than having a Lord+Sorc? (One prince seems to be a similar cost to a lord+sorc combo)
Prince-Blender of all things if he gets to swing. Mine tends to have an escort or is clearing out drop squads that hit the bubble wrap.
Lords-I keep mine cheap use them for back line reroll machines. They can be vicious in cc though.
Sorcs-I use 1-2 since I always find a use. I use JP for deep strikes and just normal ones in the back line.
Apostles-Go with zerkers or possessed
EC-See above
Apostles?
It's hard to decide what models to work on lol, have to say theres a fair few nice choices that can be made with chaos which is good. A prince would make for a better centrepiece HQ I think, but then it's also super pricey to play one. However I think in my list of lots of high toughness walkers, I'm not sure if that would mean the Prince would die faster, or survive longer.
love it! They die quite easily, but a unit of 10 packing axes/swords/fist on champ is just glorious murder.
