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Does anyone have a copy of the obliterator list that came 5th at SoCal?

According to this article the list that came 5th was the normal malefic lord and horror spam with some alpha legion mixed in.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/top-5-army-lists-in-8th-edition-40k-from-socal-open.html


Changing topic, does anyone think we might see Legion traits expanded to all of our units when Chapter Approved comes out? That seems to be the way things are going with other armies being released.

If so, what units would this benefit most? Most of our best units are infantry or <HELBRUTE> anyway so it wouldn't be too much of a buff.

I’d mainly expect tweaks to rebalance things. Try to make sure none of the Legions feel short-changed. Or a load of alternate Warbands and Renegade Chapters.

Maybe something to make Bloodthirsters and Lords of Change feasible to Summon. Perhaps with some sort of reliability-safety tradeoff. I specifically built a Palanquin Sorcerer to have loads of Wounds to lose to Miscasts, not that he’s likely to stay supported beyond the lifespan of the Index.

saint_red wrote:
According to this article the list that came 5th was the normal malefic lord and horror spam with some alpha legion mixed in.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/top-5-army-lists-in-8th-edition-40k-from-socal-open.html


Changing topic, does anyone think we might see Legion traits expanded to all of our units when Chapter Approved comes out? That seems to be the way things are going with other armies being released.

If so, what units would this benefit most? Most of our best units are infantry or <HELBRUTE> anyway so it wouldn't be too much of a buff.

The oblit list is listed as #2 there. Presumably it got bumped up in the placements when the Magnus/Morty/RK list got DQ'd.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

saint_red wrote:
According to this article the list that came 5th was the normal malefic lord and horror spam with some alpha legion mixed in.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/top-5-army-lists-in-8th-edition-40k-from-socal-open.html

The oblit list is listed as #2 there. Presumably it got bumped up in the placements when the Magnus/Morty/RK list got DQ'd.

Haha, so it is! I had tunnel vision and only looked at #5.

saint_red wrote:
According to this article the list that came 5th was the normal malefic lord and horror spam with some alpha legion mixed in.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/top-5-army-lists-in-8th-edition-40k-from-socal-open.html


Changing topic, does anyone think we might see Legion traits expanded to all of our units when Chapter Approved comes out? That seems to be the way things are going with other armies being released.

If so, what units would this benefit most? Most of our best units are infantry or <HELBRUTE> anyway so it wouldn't be too much of a buff.

My God, that 5th place Chaos Soup list... 16 Command Points. Rerolls for days, or any CSM/AL Stratagem he wanted in the Battalion.

I actually like the 2nd place list (the Obliterator spam list) better since it didn't rely on Magnus or Mortarion (or a ton of Malefic Lords) to do the heavy lifting. To me, it was more creative and probably more fun to play against, although 15 Oblits would be enough to ruin anyone's day.

I'm starting to wonder if a Khorne Deamon Prince is worth his weight. I'm already taking Dark Apostle + Exalted Champ to boost my five man Zerker squads to absurd levels (one five man unit took out a Grand Master Dreadknight), the only thing the Deamon Prince does better is hold the Talisman of Burning Blood and get into the enemy's face, buuuut then he gets wrecked. Khorne isn't a defensive army at all and mass casualties are the norm, but 180 points for to punch something only to get punched right back doesn't feel great most of the time.

In other news my deep striking Mutilators nearly killed Voldus in one round of combat. They were murdered in the backswing but still, these melon-fethers hit HARD. Anything without an invul save is going to get murderized.

i dont understand why the disqualified list played plague drones, look so underperforming for me, why not 3 giant chaos spawns instead.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if a Khorne Deamon Prince is worth his weight. I'm already taking Dark Apostle + Exalted Champ to boost my five man Zerker squads to absurd levels (one five man unit took out a Grand Master Dreadknight), the only thing the Deamon Prince does better is hold the Talisman of Burning Blood and get into the enemy's face, buuuut then he gets wrecked. Khorne isn't a defensive army at all and mass casualties are the norm, but 180 points for to punch something only to get punched right back doesn't feel great most of the time.

In other news my deep striking Mutilators nearly killed Voldus in one round of combat. They were murdered in the backswing but still, these melon-fethers hit HARD. Anything without an invul save is going to get murderized.

The Khorne Prince is one of the few units I think the internal balance is bad on. 1 extra attack doesn't make up for losing potential powers.

Had he gained maybe 2 attacks sure. 3 migit be overkill.

What is everyone's opinions on Chaos Terminators vs Obliterators? Both units seem good this edition but which one seems more worth taking? Some points for both:

Terminators:
-More reliably consistent shooting with Combi-Plasmas
-Potent in CC
-Versatile weapon loadouts
-More models in the unit
-More total wounds in the unit
-Model losses hurt less

Obliterators:
-Daemon keyword
-Higher potential damage output
-No chance of killing themselves from shooting
-More wounds per model
-Cheaper as a unit
-12 shots vs 10 assuming rapid fire range for the Terminators

If you want pure shooting, Oblits are better / cheaper. If you want pure melee, Multilators are better / cheaper. If you want versatility, Terminators are better / more expensive.

I still wouldn't bother with Mutilators. The only thing going for them is a cheaper base cost than Terminators.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I still wouldn't bother with Mutilators. The only thing going for them is a cheaper base cost than Terminators.

World Eater Mutilators are powerful enough to be worth their price; the extra attack on the charge does the trick. The extra wound with 2+/5++ is great for a World Eater unit, and they're cheaper than a fully loaded Terminator unit by at least 100 - 150 points.

Yeah if I wanted pure CC, Maulerfiends, Daemon Princes, and Berzerkers do the job better IMO.

Regarding choosing between Terminators and Obliterators, which would be best in an Alpha Legion list that's looking to do a mix of lots of long and mid range shooting and possibly supplemented with some assault elements?

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Yeah if I wanted pure CC, Maulerfiends, Daemon Princes, and Berzerkers do the job better IMO.

Regarding choosing between Terminators and Obliterators, which would be best in an Alpha Legion list that's looking to do a mix of lots of long and mid range shooting and possibly supplemented with some assault elements?

For Alpha Legion I'd go Obliterators. Then you stay in the sweet spot.

Also did anyone look at Renegade Obliterators for gaks and giggles? You can fire their guns while advancing and then charge after the fact. Not great but pretty hilarious. S5 attacks will do something I guess right?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Yeah if I wanted pure CC, Maulerfiends, Daemon Princes, and Berzerkers do the job better IMO.

Regarding choosing between Terminators and Obliterators, which would be best in an Alpha Legion list that's looking to do a mix of lots of long and mid range shooting and possibly supplemented with some assault elements?

For Alpha Legion I'd go Obliterators. Then you stay in the sweet spot.

Also did anyone look at Renegade Obliterators for gaks and giggles? You can fire their guns while advancing and then charge after the fact. Not great but pretty hilarious. S5 attacks will do something I guess right?

with ap0 guess they dont do alot

 blackmage wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Yeah if I wanted pure CC, Maulerfiends, Daemon Princes, and Berzerkers do the job better IMO.

Regarding choosing between Terminators and Obliterators, which would be best in an Alpha Legion list that's looking to do a mix of lots of long and mid range shooting and possibly supplemented with some assault elements?

For Alpha Legion I'd go Obliterators. Then you stay in the sweet spot.

Also did anyone look at Renegade Obliterators for gaks and giggles? You can fire their guns while advancing and then charge after the fact. Not great but pretty hilarious. S5 attacks will do something I guess right?

with ap0 guess they dont do alot

Little over 1 Marine dead and little over 2 Guard dead. So yeah it isn't much but you have the option haha

So I just played a couple of games against my friend, using my Alpha Legion list. He actually had a couple of lists he was considering for a tournament that's coming up a week from Saturday (which I'm also trying to prepare a list for). The first list was Cadian Astra Militarum, the second was Primaris Marines with Guilliman. We tried out a couple of the new ITC missions (which are much better than the old ones IMO).
My list was the following:

My opponent's Astra Militarum list was this:

We got the deployment map with the long table edges that taper in toward the center. I infiltrated the Noise Marines and Chosen, as well as Arkos. I put the Oblits and Termie Lord in the teleportarium. He ended up going first and I failed to sieze. I won't do a detailed report, but over the course of the game I managed to kill all of his Russes except Pask (who escaped thanks to some lucky rolls), one of the Wyverns, all of the regular Infantry and Conscripts, and the Autocannon teams. He killed all but my Terminator Lord, and I lost. He was frustrated by the -1 to hit from the Alpha Legion trait, but he just had way too many shots. Good saves and modifiers just can't beat the sheer weight of dice. Technically points-wise the game was quite close (26-22, IIRC) as the secondary missions are great for allowing even underdog armies to at least not get zeroed out. I think with a bit more luck and a little better play I probably could have won that one. Alpha Legion is quite solid and has a decent chance of beating AM (who are definitely not as invincible as some people try to claim).

I just realized going back over it that my opponent's list for the second game was actually probably illegal. He had Guilliman, Celestine, 2 10-man Intercessor squads, a 10-man Hellblaster squad, Tigurius, 2 Primaris Librarians, a Primaris Ancient with the relic banner, a 5-man Scout squad, a Culexus Assassin, and a Callidus Assassin. I'm not sure what the detachments were, but I can't see how they fit into a legal list without giving up the Chapter Tactics he was rocking. He had like 10 Command Points, which tracks if he had a Vanguard Detachment (which he could have, but could not then have the relic banner).

Anyways, this game went much worse for me, as way too many of my units died too quickly. Celestine jumped across the board and into my face turn 1. I managed to put her down in my turn, but she just came back and attacked me again 2 turns later. Arkos tried and failed to drop her a second time and ended up just dying himself. I definitely think people underestimate the power of Primaris Marines; those suckers can take hits like there is no tomorrow, meaning that if you really want to kill them you need to point some multiple damage weapons at them. Even psychic powers won't hurt them that much since they can each soak up two wounds.

My takeaway on the units I ran:
Noise Marines: Very solid unit and great for eliminating pesky Conscripts, Cultists, and other fodder troops. Not great against vehicles or anything with a good armor save, though. The Music of the Apocalypse ability is kickass, though!
Chosen with plasma: Another solid choice, but they will be a priority target so protect them!
Cultists: Good for bubblewrap/objective camping, but not much else. The Tide of Traitors stratagem is amusing on them, especially on larger units than I was running.
Havocs: The loadout I was using is suboptimal, but not awful. I think they can do work if properly supported and if they can find a worthwhile target. I just couldn't roll well with them, which was at least partly a luck thing.
Obliterators: They were really amazing in the first game, but didn't really get much of a chance in the second. I'll definitely be running them again!
Arkos: Disappointing. The extra CP was nice, but not worth the price tag. His weapons are only good if he gets close, and then he loses the AL trait, although he still gets -1 to be hit from his own ability. I might give him another chance at some point, but probably not in competitive play.
Sorcerers: They never fail to make their presence felt. The CSM powers are really solid, and putting them on bikes really increases the threat/utility range. I hope they don't kill the Index too soon, as I really like using these models.
Helbrutes: Not great. The DV one is utter trash. He might be good in a casual environment but not in a heavy-duty cutthroat tournament setting. The other one I ran did a little better in the second game (both died turn 1 in the first game). Maybe in some lists Helbrutes can do good work, or against some opponents, but not today.
Termie Lord: He was decent. His rerolls of 1's to hit is great, and the fact that he can drop in wherever he's needed is great. It might be better to run a cheap JP one instead of the terminator armor, though, but I love the Termie model!

Next time, I might go ahead and try Berzerkers again. I think I just haven't been running them right before, so now I'll give them a more fair chance. I also want to add in some Malefic Lords for extra Smite power. I really want to be competitive, so I'm going to keep on trying to find a combo of units that works. These games today really helped me figure out what's working and what isn't, and my opponent offered some great suggestions based on lists he's faced as well.

Got a question. I read that astra militarium has sentinals with scout move. Have a question.

Let's say I am playing Alpha legion, and I use forward operative on a bunch of cultists purely to limit his scouts movement. My forward operative cultists will deploy before he gets to scout move his sentinels ?

Biggest trouble I have when trying to persuade myself to take my Mutilators is the squad size. Three. No more, no less. A couple of singles made for interesting distraction carnifexes in casual play. Seven Power is affordable, BUT it’s also such a small unit and they have such poor base movement that there’s almost always going to be a better target for Warptime, meaning they’re far less likely to make the charge than the five Terminators who feel like an investment more worth warptiming into a fight and whose icon of Wrath helps them along.

Really not sure how to use them well. Maybe teleport them out of sight on an objective where Nurglings have secured a landing zone? Even in that semi-gimmick role, why not just use Oblits? If I want to get a third Elite in a Vanguard, three more power for a Contemptor or four for a Decimator feels much better. At three attacks of uncertain might a piece and only three in a squad, can’t see myself likely to throw 2CP at these supposed ultra-brawlers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ZergSmasher: what was your Ultramarines opponent doing with those Librarians? Tigurius is ok but I look at Librarius and it seems pretty weak... though that might be because my frame of reference is Warptime, Prescience, and Death Hex

 lindsay40k wrote:
@ZergSmasher: what was your Ultramarines opponent doing with those Librarians? Tigurius is ok but I look at Librarius and it seems pretty weak... though that might be because my frame of reference is Warptime, Prescience, and Death Hex

He actually took Might of Heroes and Veil of Time on both of them, for redundancy. He mainly cast Might of Heroes on Bobby G.

what is the reason to play plague drones in a list like the disqualified one at Socal? They should take some punishment but their damage output is ridicolous, they kill almost nothing, why not a DP for example or 30 demonettes?

Really enjoying mixed CSM / R&H lists right now. Finally got around to building some Earthshaker batteries. Played my last 3 games with them and am impressed with what they do.

I just put them behind buildings and let them wound everything from afar. Cultist bubblewrap + Obliterator deep strike makes it almost impossible for opponents to respond.

Plague drones are 1 pt more than a Spawn. While Im stuck using Spawn since they were my main escort in 7th, Drones seem to do that role much better.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plague drones are 1 pt more than a Spawn. While Im stuck using Spawn since they were my main escort in 7th, Drones seem to do that role much better.

escort of what? in that list they escort nothing and btw spawn hits heavier than drones.

Didn't see the list. But a plague drone can escort and keep up with a daemon prince. I referred to escorting as in 7th edition, with a Biker lord when Spawn were king. Spawn hit harder than drones, with - 2 and 2 damage, but I rather take the safety of a 5++, 5+++, a shooting attack, and Fly for one point more.

that's the list, points are wrong btw i was wondering why use drones

 blackmage wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plague drones are 1 pt more than a Spawn. While Im stuck using Spawn since they were my main escort in 7th, Drones seem to do that role much better.

escort of what? in that list they escort nothing and btw spawn hits heavier than drones.

Spawn hit harder for sure, but they can't take hits like Plague Drones can. T5 5++/5+++ is pretty durable. And they hit hard enough, even if its not as hard as a Spawn. For heavy hitting, that's what the Primarch Bros. and Knight were for, presumably.

Spawn also get slowed down by walls, Drones pass right over...

 blackmage wrote:


that's the list, points are wrong btw i was wondering why use drones

They have a large footprint so turn 1 can be used to create a large area preventing deepstrike if you didn't get first turn or seize.

They provide a screen against unwanted charges against the Knight Renegade who doesn't want to get bogged down or end up falling back every turn..

They fly at a reasonable speed and can grab & hold objectives for at least a turn.