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Saving some room for flamers of tzeentch might be handy with their twelve inch pistol flamers. If a Herald is nearby they become strength 5 and there's the +1 to wound spell as well which means you'd be wounding on 2s against t4 making them quite nasty. Kind of a significant investment in terms of points and CP though.

Hello fellow heretics. New Chaos player here, just starting out with a box of CSMs sitting in my lap. I want to build a Black Legion army with a slight focus on Khorne (but eventually expanding to other Chaos gods as I see fit.)

Any tips for do's-and-don'ts when it comes to equipping your marines? I got 12 I can make (couple extra that my boyfriend has and doesn't need anymore) and I was planning on doing 6 with Bolters, Plasma, and Combi-Plas, and the other 6 with BP & CS, Flamer, and Combi-Flamer. Does that sound like an okay start to cover my bases? I will definitely be magnetizing my special weapons and Champions.

I realize without a list this isn't much to go on, but I just wanted to hear what you all think about the marines anyway!

I would suggest magnetizing your base weps as well its worth the extra time

In general, bolt pistol and chainsword chaos marines are not worth taking this edition as khorne berserkers do the job much better for only 3-4 pts/model more. You're better off running them all with bolters right now. Bolters will allow your marines to grab some cover and potentially survive for longer as power armor doesn't really stop them from getting shot off the table. Also, if you're planning on running black legion you can take advantage of the run and gun legion trait. Even if you want to mess around with flamers they are assault weapons so the advance and shoot trait works out.

The other issue with Chaos Marines is that Chosen do everything better, and nobody is hopping on Chosen.

Chosen are good with 5 combi bolters many shots for not to many points.

I think Noise Marines are still pretty much the best unit in the game when it comes to horde clearance? Dropping twenty in a Kharybdis, giving them Prescience and the KAC Warptime, leaves a huge hole in the enemy lines for shock troops to,run into.

Tzeentch Flamers look like a...moderately viable alternative. 12” fire is getting people drooling, but their Power Levels make for CP-inefficient deep strikes and unreliable Summoning, and their speed and Pistol typing means a screen can safely deploy 24.1” away.

Both units have their pluses. Flamers will punish a retaliatory banzai charge, hard. Green tide is practically playing into their hands. 2W means they might draw some heavy firepower away from our big stuff. Noise Marines get to shoot again when the enemy kill them, which is a massive psyop. Both units want 3CP spent on them and a HQ babysitter for maximum output.

Heavy Bolter Rapiers are probably our other option. A lot of gun for a modest price. (Convert Kataphrons to show mercy on your purse.)

 lindsay40k wrote:
I think Noise Marines are still pretty much the best unit in the game when it comes to horde clearance? Dropping twenty in a Kharybdis, giving them Prescience and the KAC Warptime, leaves a huge hole in the enemy lines for shock troops to,run into.

Tzeentch Flamers look like a...moderately viable alternative. 12” fire is getting people drooling, but their Power Levels make for CP-inefficient deep strikes and unreliable Summoning, and their speed and Pistol typing means a screen can safely deploy 24.1” away.

Both units have their pluses. Flamers will punish a retaliatory banzai charge, hard. Green tide is practically playing into their hands. 2W means they might draw some heavy firepower away from our big stuff. Noise Marines get to shoot again when the enemy kill them, which is a massive psyop. Both units want 3CP spent on them and a HQ babysitter for maximum output.

Heavy Bolter Rapiers are probably our other option. A lot of gun for a modest price. (Convert Kataphrons to show mercy on your purse.)

You can use the flickering flame psychic power on flamers though. This is very good for them.
As I mentioned in another thread 30 Pink Horrors are also very nice when you deep strike. Against screens they even do more damage and are also somewhat cheaper.

Ah, I overlooked Horrors as I mainly end up playing PL Matched Play games, in which Horrors are basically unviable.

Had one pinkie die? Add two blueys to your unit, and deduct the equivalent of 100 Reinforcement Points ._.

That said, with the new buffs, a pink tide might just be viable...

PL matched play?

That about the one way you are not supposed to do it XD

 Bubbles wrote:
Hello fellow heretics. New Chaos player here, just starting out with a box of CSMs sitting in my lap. I want to build a Black Legion army with a slight focus on Khorne (but eventually expanding to other Chaos gods as I see fit.)

Any tips for do's-and-don'ts when it comes to equipping your marines? I got 12 I can make (couple extra that my boyfriend has and doesn't need anymore) and I was planning on doing 6 with Bolters, Plasma, and Combi-Plas, and the other 6 with BP & CS, Flamer, and Combi-Flamer. Does that sound like an okay start to cover my bases? I will definitely be magnetizing my special weapons and Champions.

I realize without a list this isn't much to go on, but I just wanted to hear what you all think about the marines anyway!

I am not very sold on Flamers this edition. I'm glad to see scatters and pie plates gone but I always liked the flamer template. Flamers are too overcosted. They should have stayed 5 pts. Plasma is very good, but you're still going to want some melta. High damage weapons are a necessity. I built my army without Meltas and every game is uphill to take out vehicles and high wound monsters.

 BoomWolf wrote:
PL matched play?

That about the one way you are not supposed to do it XD

It’s unsupported by the rulebook, yes, but in practice official GW events show a strong inclination to a hybrid system. I’ve asked several times for a clarification or patch to accomodate what would be a controversial unit, and in friendlies negotiate a PL of 10 for ten Pink Horrors with free Splits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’m starting to warm to Heretac squads.

Yes, they’re inferior to Cultists. But Cultist spam all the time is getting a little dull, and I’m finding a two Heavy Bolters ten man squad to be ok. Sort of thing you put on a rooftop at the front of your DZ. HB has got adequate synergy with the Boltguns. And they contribute 175% as many CP’s as Havoc squads (3/5 of a CP vs 1/4).

If you want anti-infantry firepower, 3 Heretac squads contribute half as many Heavy Bolters as 3 Havoc squads, but also pay for another Endless Cacophony. Or Tide of Traitors.

I’m not saying it’s better, I’m not saying it’s tournament material, I’m not saying it’s equivalent, but it does seems viable for keeping things shaken up in semi-casual play.

Hello crazy guys and gals.

First, I'm new to Chaos so excuse the noobiness..

I want to build up a Khorne army, it would be nice to have 2k points TAC force eventually.

So, what should I be buying? At the moment I have some chosen, cultists, a lord, a champion and some Bezerkers.

Also, are chaos dreadnoughts a thing, can't seem to find them in the CSM codex.

I look forward to receiving your collective wisdom!

 gkos wrote:
Hello crazy guys and gals.

First, I'm new to Chaos so excuse the noobiness..

I want to build up a Khorne army, it would be nice to have 2k points TAC force eventually.

So, what should I be buying? At the moment I have some chosen, cultists, a lord, a champion and some Bezerkers.

Also, are chaos dreadnoughts a thing, can't seem to find them in the CSM codex.

I look forward to receiving your collective wisdom!

First off, welcome to the BLOOD GOD!

What should you be buying? Well first, 'some bezerkers' is no where near enough, as a Khorne player you should have 20 minimum. A Lord and champion are good travel buddies for the Zerkers and cultists are good for filling out battalion slots (get 30 so you can run a separate detachment to your Zerkers and get +3CP). Another thing you will need is rhinos for your Zerkers to travel in: cheap party buses that will get them from your deployment to theirs. It also might be worth looking into getting some Bloodletters, Heralds and Thirsters for when the Daemon Codex comes out so that you can just through them into your enemies deployment zone. Finally, you should get yourself an army centerpiece: something huge and intimidating that will draw all your opponents attention so that the rest of your army can go around claiming skulls, for me currently it's the Brass Scorpion of Khorne (the thing is a monster!).

As for the chaos dreadnought, that has been re-named to the helbrute and is ok this edition, not bad, not great, just ok.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

 Bubbles wrote:
Hello fellow heretics. New Chaos player here, just starting out with a box of CSMs sitting in my lap. I want to build a Black Legion army with a slight focus on Khorne (but eventually expanding to other Chaos gods as I see fit.)

Any tips for do's-and-don'ts when it comes to equipping your marines? I got 12 I can make (couple extra that my boyfriend has and doesn't need anymore) and I was planning on doing 6 with Bolters, Plasma, and Combi-Plas, and the other 6 with BP & CS, Flamer, and Combi-Flamer. Does that sound like an okay start to cover my bases? I will definitely be magnetizing my special weapons and Champions.

I realize without a list this isn't much to go on, but I just wanted to hear what you all think about the marines anyway!

I am not very sold on Flamers this edition. I'm glad to see scatters and pie plates gone but I always liked the flamer template. Flamers are too overcosted. They should have stayed 5 pts. Plasma is very good, but you're still going to want some melta. High damage weapons are a necessity. I built my army without Meltas and every game is uphill to take out vehicles and high wound monsters.

Skip the Melta and just buy Lascannons and ML's and basically anything else. Melta sucks right now.

Breaking news from the world of ITC - https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/733325.page#9779234

 Reecius wrote:
@andysonic1

Yeah, there is some confusion on this topic but I would not come to the LVO assuming I could use Daemon strats on anything other than units that were Daemon Faction units.

I would assume if I was a Daemon player that a Daemon FAQ would be coming out quickly on the heels of the Daemon book as has been the case with other Cdoex releases. We will look to them to answer these questions but no, I would not plan on deep-striking (or any other similar uses of stratagems) Magnus, Mortarion, the Lord of Skulls, etc. with the Daemon codex. Again, we will look to GW for official answers but as friendly advice, that would be what I would say to anyone thinking about bringing that to the LVO.

The Frontline Gaming guys know whats in the pipeline, and they have hinted before when NOT to do something, and shortly after an FAQ came out nerfing whatever thing they were hinting at not to do. So this changes pretty much everything about the interaction between the Daemons Codex and CSM Daemons. We'll have to wait two weeks before it's official, but since Reece is saying to not do it, we can pretty safely assume it will be nerfed.

 mrhappyface wrote:

First off, welcome to the BLOOD GOD!

What should you be buying? Well first, 'some bezerkers' is no where near enough, as a Khorne player you should have 20 minimum. A Lord and champion are good travel buddies for the Zerkers and cultists are good for filling out battalion slots (get 30 so you can run a separate detachment to your Zerkers and get +3CP). Another thing you will need is rhinos for your Zerkers to travel in: cheap party buses that will get them from your deployment to theirs. It also might be worth looking into getting some Bloodletters, Heralds and Thirsters for when the Daemon Codex comes out so that you can just through them into your enemies deployment zone. Finally, you should get yourself an army centerpiece: something huge and intimidating that will draw all your opponents attention so that the rest of your army can go around claiming skulls, for me currently it's the Brass Scorpion of Khorne (the thing is a monster!).

As for the chaos dreadnought, that has been re-named to the helbrute and is ok this edition, not bad, not great, just ok.

thanks for the welcome and advice.. noted on the zerkers, I have 12 so will double that.. I have some imperial Rhinos I can "mutate" to the cause so transport can be provided

I like the centrepiece idea, big shooty things are fun, would a renegade knight fit the bill as I like the look of them but can't find much info.

 gkos wrote:
thanks for the welcome and advice.. noted on the zerkers, I have 12 so will double that.. I have some imperial Rhinos I can "mutate" to the cause so transport can be provided

I like the centrepiece idea, big shooty things are fun, would a renegade knight fit the bill as I like the look of them but can't find much info.

Renegade knights don't put out enough bang for their buck this edition for my money. A Kytan daemon engine or a Lord of Skulls might be a choice for a Khorne army, though it isn't all about winning, so if you don't fancy the look of the Kytan of LoS then stick with the knight: you could always convert the knight up to look more Khorney and use him as a stand in Kytan.

Good luck!

Has anyone tried a min squad of MoS flamer bikes?

I've read a few people making good use of MoS flamer havocs/chosen on various forums. I looked at the math for 3 bikes w/ 2 flamers+combi bolter vs 5 havocs w/ 4 flamers+combi-flamer. On average (assuming 3.5 hits from flamers) the bike squad would dish out two more S4 hits than a havoc squad.

Not to mention 8 points cheaper, more resilient (T5 W6 vs T4 W5), combi-bolters allow them to harass from range, and don't need a transport.

I'm in a similar boat to the above new guy, but with a slightly different situation and could use some advice.

Tzeentch daemons grabbed me pretty hard (I've always liked the models, but with AoS making a resurgence in my area it seemed like a good time to start), but my collection for them is still small: 1 DP with talons and a single TD start collecting that I built with chariot herald instead of a BC.

I've been dissatisfied for a while with the state of 8th ed Raven Guard, and with primaris and minimal help from CA being the cherry on top of not being able to run a fluffy list, I've gone full traitor.

Now here's where the advice part comes in. I'm pretty flexible on legion trait, and as it's a hybrid 30k/40k army I have a LOT of bodies but minimal other vehicles, just 2 rhinos and 2 storm eagles. current count is 10 tartaros terminators (7 magnetized for combi-gun swaps) and ~80 various power armor bodies of all stripes, 33 of them magnetized for bolter/special/combi/HB (though less than 10 of each weapon)

What are the recommendations for turning this into an effective fighting force? My area isn't top-end competitive, so mostly general advice and things I should look to add. I've got a baal predator that's on the table to be magnetized into any of the hellforged pred variants, or can be run as a rhino but nothing else of note in the works.

 WindstormSCR wrote:
I'm in a similar boat to the above new guy, but with a slightly different situation and could use some advice.

Tzeentch daemons grabbed me pretty hard (I've always liked the models, but with AoS making a resurgence in my area it seemed like a good time to start), but my collection for them is still small: 1 DP with talons and a single TD start collecting that I built with chariot herald instead of a BC.

I've been dissatisfied for a while with the state of 8th ed Raven Guard, and with primaris and minimal help from CA being the cherry on top of not being able to run a fluffy list, I've gone full traitor.

Now here's where the advice part comes in. I'm pretty flexible on legion trait, and as it's a hybrid 30k/40k army I have a LOT of bodies but minimal other vehicles, just 2 rhinos and 2 storm eagles. current count is 10 tartaros terminators (7 magnetized for combi-gun swaps) and ~80 various power armor bodies of all stripes, 33 of them magnetized for bolter/special/combi/HB (though less than 10 of each weapon)

What are the recommendations for turning this into an effective fighting force? My area isn't top-end competitive, so mostly general advice and things I should look to add. I've got a baal predator that's on the table to be magnetized into any of the hellforged pred variants, or can be run as a rhino but nothing else of note in the works.

What kind of chaos army do you want? Shooting orientated? CC orientated? A mixed army? Do you want to be very warped/twisted daemonic army? Do you want to be more restrained with daemon use like Night Lords? Is there a specific legion you want to model after or maybe you want to make your own warband?

Need more info than just model count; I was able to give more info to Gkos because they said they wanted a Khorne army, which means bloodthirsty, daemonic and CC orientated.

 mrhappyface wrote:

What kind of chaos army do you want? Shooting orientated? CC orientated? A mixed army? Do you want to be very warped/twisted daemonic army? Do you want to be more restrained with daemon use like Night Lords? Is there a specific legion you want to model after or maybe you want to make your own warband?

Need more info than just model count; I was able to give more info to Gkos because they said they wanted a Khorne army, which means bloodthirsty, daemonic and CC orientated.

Fair enough.

For theme I'm going mostly tzeentch-marked, to mix with tzeentch daemons with a focus on older-model armor and legion gear. Some options for assault would be good, but after my experiences so far in 8th I'm dubious about the viability of that approach.

I'd like to try and stay at least somewhat true to the feel of the original RG legion that they'll have broken off from, which is why I was thinking alpha legion for a legion trait or possibly word bearers because of the daemon connection, and want to keep at least one Stormeagle in the list. As far as specialist units, I have a single breacher squad was going to use as counts-as rubrics, replacing the unit leader with the consul-librarian model. still haven't decided how to model the soulreaper cannon. Along a similar thought was using a volkite caliver/culverin special weapon squad as counts-as noise boys.

My only real hard line is I'm trying to avoid anything nurgle related!

 WindstormSCR wrote:
Fair enough.

For theme I'm going mostly tzeentch-marked, to mix with tzeentch daemons with a focus on older-model armor and legion gear. Some options for assault would be good, but after my experiences so far in 8th I'm dubious about the viability of that approach.

I'd like to try and stay at least somewhat true to the feel of the original RG legion that they'll have broken off from, which is why I was thinking alpha legion for a legion trait or possibly word bearers because of the daemon connection, and want to keep at least one Stormeagle in the list. As far as specialist units, I have a single breacher squad was going to use as counts-as rubrics, replacing the unit leader with the consul-librarian model. still haven't decided how to model the soulreaper cannon. Along a similar thought was using a volkite caliver/culverin special weapon squad as counts-as noise boys.

My only real hard line is I'm trying to avoid anything nurgle related!

Tzeentch isn't my strong spot (Primary is Khorne and I dabble in the other gods) but I'd say Alpha Legion Tzeentch focus could work, though it wouldn't be the most competitive choice. I'd say you could have a solid core of rubric stand ins piled into rhinos, I'd add onto that some sorcerers for your HQ slots and some cultists to fill out troops slots (yeah you have a lot of marines but CSM are next to useless and really just a waste of points), then I'd fill out your heavy support slots with havocs (this is where your marines come in) equipped with mid-short ranged weapons that you can then infiltrate forwards. You can tack your storm eagle onto that and maybe get a sorcerer to throw a 5++ onto it.

To get the more Tzeentchy vibe, you could then pair this with a Tzeentch battalion: Lord of Change w/impossible robes + a Herald, some units of 20+ pinks and some flamers that you can use the new deep strike stratagem with to throw down some serious dakka.

So, for purchases, I'd say get yourself a small Tzeentch daemon army with the above units and just have fun with converting your current units into chaos models.

Quick question guys, the drop pod of chaos says that mark of chaos troops can enter it as well as legion.

Does this mean as long as one matches then I can put a unit inside? For instance if the pod is marked thousand sons tzeentch could I put a unit of alpha legio tzeentch chosen?

demontalons wrote:
Quick question guys, the drop pod of chaos says that mark of chaos troops can enter it as well as legion.

Does this mean as long as one matches then I can put a unit inside? For instance if the pod is marked thousand sons tzeentch could I put a unit of alpha legio tzeentch chosen?

If you mark it Thousand Sons, only Thousand Sons units may enter it during deployment and during the game.

Is it just me, or does a blood letter mass summon assault look a lot better than trying to use berserkers now. Bring a Daemon Detachment. Summon in bloodletters, you don't even need to use the strategem for 3d6. Just make sure you have instrument which adds +1 to your charge. And if you have Khorne loci, you have reroll charge too. And bloodletters are a lot cheaper than Berserkers.

You can add a Khorne patrol detachment to our CSM detachments, and you can do this already right?

Yes, Bloodletters deep striking in and re-rolling (I would also ALWAYS give them the 3D6 banner because you want to fan out and tag everything) is waaaaaay better than Drop Pod Berzerkers. Until World Eaters get their codex and the eventual 3D6 charge, it's either Rhinos or hoofing it if you want to be competitive.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Is it just me, or does a blood letter mass summon assault look a lot better than trying to use berserkers now. Bring a Daemon Detachment. Summon in bloodletters, you don't even need to use the strategem for 3d6. Just make sure you have instrument which adds +1 to your charge. And if you have Khorne loci, you have reroll charge too. And bloodletters are a lot cheaper than Berserkers.

You can add a Khorne patrol detachment to our CSM detachments, and you can do this already right?

Sure. Except around about equal points in Bloodletters gives you 21x S5 AP-3 D1 attacks versus Berzerkers 8x S10 AP-3 Dd3, 24x S6 AP-1 D1 and 10x S5 AP- D1 attacks. Berzerkers are better against high toughness units (VotLW making them even better) and they're better against low toughness units (S6 giving them 2+ vs T3). Bloodletters do have the unique ability now to enact alpha strikes that can clear out chaff and MEQs but they still don't hit like a bus like Zerkers do.

The problem with berserkers is that unless you are playing Alpha legion, you can't start them 9 inches from the opponent. And while forward operatives is amazing as a strategem. If you end up going second, you are boned because now you have a bunch of berserkers alone up the field ready to be shoot at and charged and destroyed by his whole army.

And if you don't use forward operatives, then you need Rhinos as a delivery system. That adds even more to the cost.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
The problem with berserkers is that unless you are playing Alpha legion, you can't start them 9 inches from the opponent. And while forward operatives is amazing as a strategem. If you end up going second, you are boned because now you have a bunch of berserkers alone up the field ready to be shoot at and charged and destroyed by his whole army.

And if you don't use forward operatives, then you need Rhinos as a delivery system. That adds even more to the cost.

So 140pts extra that means I don't have to use a CP AND I have a model that can absorb overwatch attacks so that the Zerkers go in unscathed. And as I said before, in combat and in utility, Zerkers are still way better than Bloodletters.