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 andysonic1 wrote:
I'm sure this was asked and generally answered weeks ago but: can I summon units outside my deployment zone turn one?

Edit: did a search and saw that it was reasoned out that summoning may be effected, but there's been no official ruling on it specifically. The wording sure doesn't sound good though.

The rule of thumb is only things that started on the board can 'arrive' outside your deployment zone turn one.

So I would say no, but the beta rules aren't specific. Talk with your opponent first. I've allowed it in a couple games where it came up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bluthusten wrote:
Hey guys, i wanna add some forgeworld to my Chaos Marines.

I though about a Leviathan or a Deredeo ?

Whats your favorite? and whats our "best" forgeworld uni? i wanna play a tournament in 5 weeks and i need some backup

or they just to weak for competitive play?

The best Forgeworld unit IMHO is the Decimator with Twin Soulburner petards. BS 3 and all hits automatically cause a mortal wound. The Leviathan has a similar weapon, but it's heavy, not assault.

If you are looking for a deal, sure, the Leviathan is great. Just got a Deredeo, but that's because I already have a Leviathan.

Bluthusten wrote:
Hey guys, i wanna add some forgeworld to my Chaos Marines.

I though about a Leviathan or a Deredeo ?

Whats your favorite? and whats our "best" forgeworld uni? i wanna play a tournament in 5 weeks and i need some backup

or they just to weak for competitive play?

I also think it bears noting that forgeworld does not imply OP this edition. Almost none of the top chaos lists ran forgeworld units in any prior tournament I can remember

Decimators are pretty great, but kinda fragile and pricey. And after one game your opponent will focus it down turn 1 every time.

 Badablack wrote:
Decimators are pretty great, but kinda fragile and pricey. And after one game your opponent will focus it down turn 1 every time.

Yeah. It's about the same stats as a Helbrute, it usually works out to about 40 points more for me.

If you are taking Helbrutes anyway, it may be worth the points for the 2 inches of extra movement and the 4D3 assault weapons that do mortal wounds on each hit.

The way I used to run it was with a Sorcerer casting Warp Time for 20 inches of movement first turn. That works out to a 44 inch threat radius on something that is great at killing Terminators / Custodes / Wraiththings / large squads of light infantry.

The downside was I wanted to go second when I had one of these, the good stuff had not deep struck. And when I went second, sometimes it got killed. The wound regeneration helped, but not enough to keep it on the table as long as I wanted.

Not sure I wanna magnetize my terms so swords or axes for a 10 man MoS plas term squad?

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Not sure I wanna magnetize my terms so swords or axes for a 10 man MoS plas term squad?

Magnetize.

Magnetizing is the way to go.

In a vacuum I would lean towards Axes in 8th edition, even if they are a bit more expensive than the swords. s5 is a pretty big jump over s4. It lets you wound MEQ on a 3+ and makes fighting t5 stuff (which isn't that rare) on a 4+. Ap2 is also a pretty good compromise, as vs many cc opponents too much AP is wasted due to the invulnerable save capping what you can do. The one thing swords do for you is they are the cheapest power weapon, and you are already hemorrhaging points on this squad. You can also pair the greater AP of swords with Death Hex, although that is a very expensive power at WC 8, and any advantage you gain by comboing these will likely be cancelled out by the strength drop.

I would magnitize your terminators if you can though, it may very well be that Combi Plasma no longer becomes the optimal loadout for terminators and you want to switch them back to combi melta or even cheap combi bolters. Or one day the Reaper Auto Cannon becomes good again and you want to take 2 of them, or an Emperor's Children Book comes out and they are given access to Blast Masters or Twin Linked Blasters You may even want a power fist or two so you can scare characters away with the risk of multi wounds, fists aren't breaking the bank at 12 points.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
I'm sure this was asked and generally answered weeks ago but: can I summon units outside my deployment zone turn one?

Edit: did a search and saw that it was reasoned out that summoning may be effected, but there's been no official ruling on it specifically. The wording sure doesn't sound good though.

The rule of thumb is only things that started on the board can 'arrive' outside your deployment zone turn one.

So I would say no, but the beta rules aren't specific. Talk with your opponent first. I've allowed it in a couple games where it came up.

I sent an email to the bois at ITC. They've been good about answering these kinds of questions.

 akaean wrote:
Magnetizing is the way to go.

In a vacuum I would lean towards Axes in 8th edition, even if they are a bit more expensive than the swords. s5 is a pretty big jump over s4. It lets you wound MEQ on a 3+ and makes fighting t5 stuff (which isn't that rare) on a 4+. Ap2 is also a pretty good compromise, as vs many cc opponents too much AP is wasted due to the invulnerable save capping what you can do. The one thing swords do for you is they are the cheapest power weapon, and you are already hemorrhaging points on this squad. You can also pair the greater AP of swords with Death Hex, although that is a very expensive power at WC 8, and any advantage you gain by comboing these will likely be cancelled out by the strength drop.

I would magnitize your terminators if you can though, it may very well be that Combi Plasma no longer becomes the optimal loadout for terminators and you want to switch them back to combi melta or even cheap combi bolters. Or one day the Reaper Auto Cannon becomes good again and you want to take 2 of them, or an Emperor's Children Book comes out and they are given access to Blast Masters or Twin Linked Blasters You may even want a power fist or two so you can scare characters away with the risk of multi wounds, fists aren't breaking the bank at 12 points.

For the record, magnetizing Chaos Terminators is easy. It takes me maybe 10 minutes additional time of assembly drilling holes in the torsos / arms and mounting the magnets. The only additional expense you should have is buying Terminator shoulder pads, you will need a few extra to do all the weapon options.

The one thing to watch out for is that the magnets are flush, and make sure there is some contact between the surfaces of the arms and torsos. Especially on Reaper Autocannons and Storm Bolter arms, which are heavy and will dip when attached.

One thing people have been doing is putting ferrous metal in the torso instead of an additional magnet to avoid issues with polarity. I think this is a great idea and worth it to simplify the process.

i can be wrong but... if i remember summoned units comes from reserves (im not sure that's the wording) so i guess you cant.

 blackmage wrote:
i can be wrong but... if i remember summoned units comes from reserves (im not sure that's the wording) so i guess you cant.

Summoned units come from a reserve, yes. This allows you to bring in literally whatever you want with the points you have. Want to bring in a Bloodletter bomb one turn and screamers the next? The world is your starfish!

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Not sure I wanna magnetize my terms so swords or axes for a 10 man MoS plas term squad?

I've magnetized my berserkers, CSM's/Havoks and Terminators and I've no regrets. You spend a little bit of money ordering extra bits like shoulder pads and armaments, but it saves you money from buying entirely new kits and saves you the labor and space of having to paint and store models equipped with the exact armament you need. It is 100% the way to go. My workflow is extremely streamlined at this point and takes me VERY little time. In hindsight, I would change my workflow a bit to putting ferrous metal in the torso or arm bits as opposed to magnetizing both. Early on in my magnetizing process I had a couple of models with reversed polarity which sucks, but lesson learned.

On a side note, what are the communities thoughts on the Chaos Assault Storm Eagle? I'd be utilizing it as a transport for my World Eater berserkers, and before someone comments about the Kharybdis, there's no way I'm spending that kind of money on that. But yea, my rhino's are still having trouble getting where they need to be. I figure that with the Storm Eagle, my Berserkers should be ready for a turn 2 assault (given it endures the first turn fire storm). The armaments seem nice and it's just slightly more expensive than a Land Raider I believe plus it holds twice as many units as a LR and it gets the hard to hit flyer rule.

 Latro_ wrote:
cant go wrong with a eviathan, they look awesome and perform pretty wekk on the table.

i'd prob take one wit hthe butcher cannons and grav array thing

Sounds great. Looking for some Backup for my Iron Warriors.

What do you think about the Sicaran Battle Tank?

Im not that sure about the IW fluff, whats so common use for them? Just all kinds of tanks? or do they prefer some?

IW fluff: big blob of chaff surrounding long range artillery dug into fortifications with some bois for moving forward. They also enjoy use of Daemon Engines and large blasty cannons.

 andysonic1 wrote:
IW fluff: big blob of chaff surrounding long range artillery dug into fortifications with some bois for moving forward. They also enjoy use of Daemon Engines and large blasty cannons.

Okay for a good play in tabletop i need:

-Blob of cultists supported by a Lord with IW trait (fearless)
-some rapier batterys
-a bastion
-tanks/Cybots

and someone who can smash some face (prince with IW relic)
...?

am i missing something?

Given the horribleness of the existing Obliterator models, what do you guys think about using Forge World's "Myrmidon Destructors" as Obliterators for a Dark Mechanicus themed army?

Bluthusten wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
cant go wrong with a eviathan, they look awesome and perform pretty wekk on the table.

i'd prob take one wit hthe butcher cannons and grav array thing

Sounds great. Looking for some Backup for my Iron Warriors.

What do you think about the Sicaran Battle Tank?

Im not that sure about the IW fluff, whats so common use for them? Just all kinds of tanks? or do they prefer some?

yep they are a pretty solid choice, come up quite a few chaos lists.
check these battle reports out :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGEGp7k2F5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d9ky284ZHQ

iron warriors dude with all those units, hes not the best of players but fun to watch

I've recently started running a list that goes as follows:

DG Spearhead:
Prince, 2xTalons, Wings
2x PBC w/Spitters
2x FBD w/Spitters
Leviathan w/Butcher Cannons (I love double Grav Flux, but I tend to not use it well and it gets focused hard)

Daemons Battallion:
2x Poxbringer
3x3 Nurglings

That brings me to 1407pts (We usually play 1500). I have a few options to complete the list:
-15 Poxwalkers
-More Nurglings
-Foul Blightspawn
-DSing Feculent Gnarlmaw

Which do you think would benefit my army more? We play rulebook and CA missions, so sometimes I have end game scoring and sometimes progressive

i have a question, i have an incoming tournament and im thinking about morty+berzy+Ts supreme command, but i dont know how TO will set up the tables, not sure if will be enough block LOS to field things like Morty and rhinos, maybe better going more "conservative" and play drones+Dg DP? that tournament will not have maelstom missions, what do you think about? thx


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kzraahk wrote:
I've recently started running a list that goes as follows:

DG Spearhead:
Prince, 2xTalons, Wings
2x PBC w/Spitters
2x FBD w/Spitters
Leviathan w/Butcher Cannons (I love double Grav Flux, but I tend to not use it well and it gets focused hard)

Daemons Battallion:
2x Poxbringer
3x3 Nurglings

That brings me to 1407pts (We usually play 1500). I have a few options to complete the list:
-15 Poxwalkers
-More Nurglings
-Foul Blightspawn
-DSing Feculent Gnarlmaw

Which do you think would benefit my army more? We play rulebook and CA missions, so sometimes I have end game scoring and sometimes progressive

i would go for poxwalkers, still good also after last FAQ nerf.

So I had a game this weekend playing against a hardcore gunline in a 2v2. We got smashed, AM/Custodes and I played CSM/DG.

Dark angels with Azrael and a Lieutenant destroyed everything, even taking a demon prince down to 1 wound ON OVERWATCH (note: I did charge two units of devestators, and they did blow up and come back due to the ancient and shot hitting on a 3+ rerollable as well). Destroyers from the necrons made short work of demon princes as well (T6 vs T7 was a huge thing here).

Drones are far less survivable than PBC's for one key reason; overcharged plasma. Wounding on a 3+ vs a 4+ is a huge difference, but it also gives your opponent no choice; they must overcharge to hurt the PBC's reliably. Plus the +2 wounds is big.

That said, I'm looking at ways of making a CSM detachment that hits hard, and is mobile; doing the "billions of lascannons" thing is pretty meh. we'll get destroyed by similar lists from the SM side of things, and after seeing destroyers in action, 15 str 6 ap 3 shots hitting on 2's rerolling 1's.... I now see that we can't play the same "gunline" game as others. And I don't think we need to, because we can combine hard hitting units from several codices (1k sons, CSM) with resilient units (DG, nurgle).

Anyone have any experience running CSM Biker Lords? I'm thinking they may be a great supreme detachment; with a powerfist they can pummel stuff pretty well, attacking whatever they want with abandon. They move 14", giving them a sick 26" threat range. You can arm them with a variety of guns, while they are expensive, throwing a Combi-Plasma or a Melta means you can pew-pew before charging in to clobber something heavy. As well, 6 wounds, T5, and a 4++ isn't too shabby. I'm just not sure what mark you'd use. Plus, because they will be targeting vehicles/individual chars, you can use the boon stratagem to make them progressively deadlier. Top it off with targeting them with Diabolic Strength, Str 10 and 5 attacks doesn't seem so bad!

 Zid wrote:
So I had a game this weekend playing against a hardcore gunline in a 2v2. We got smashed, AM/Custodes and I played CSM/DG.

Dark angels with Azrael and a Lieutenant destroyed everything, even taking a demon prince down to 1 wound ON OVERWATCH (note: I did charge two units of devestators, and they did blow up and come back due to the ancient and shot hitting on a 3+ rerollable as well). Destroyers from the necrons made short work of demon princes as well (T6 vs T7 was a huge thing here).

Drones are far less survivable than PBC's for one key reason; overcharged plasma. Wounding on a 3+ vs a 4+ is a huge difference, but it also gives your opponent no choice; they must overcharge to hurt the PBC's reliably. Plus the +2 wounds is big.

That said, I'm looking at ways of making a CSM detachment that hits hard, and is mobile; doing the "billions of lascannons" thing is pretty meh. we'll get destroyed by similar lists from the SM side of things, and after seeing destroyers in action, 15 str 6 ap 3 shots hitting on 2's rerolling 1's.... I now see that we can't play the same "gunline" game as others. And I don't think we need to, because we can combine hard hitting units from several codices (1k sons, CSM) with resilient units (DG, nurgle).

Anyone have any experience running CSM Biker Lords? I'm thinking they may be a great supreme detachment; with a powerfist they can pummel stuff pretty well, attacking whatever they want with abandon. They move 14", giving them a sick 26" threat range. You can arm them with a variety of guns, while they are expensive, throwing a Combi-Plasma or a Melta means you can pew-pew before charging in to clobber something heavy. As well, 6 wounds, T5, and a 4++ isn't too shabby. I'm just not sure what mark you'd use. Plus, because they will be targeting vehicles/individual chars, you can use the boon stratagem to make them progressively deadlier. Top it off with targeting them with Diabolic Strength, Str 10 and 5 attacks doesn't seem so bad!

Honestly, biker lords are middling in my experience. Just make a jetpack lord, and hide him behind other jetpackers or even bikers. The bike isn't worth the points for what you get on a Lord, especailly since it uses the index Lord points, meaning it is just SLIGHTLY overcosted.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
So I had a game this weekend playing against a hardcore gunline in a 2v2. We got smashed, AM/Custodes and I played CSM/DG.

Dark angels with Azrael and a Lieutenant destroyed everything, even taking a demon prince down to 1 wound ON OVERWATCH (note: I did charge two units of devestators, and they did blow up and come back due to the ancient and shot hitting on a 3+ rerollable as well). Destroyers from the necrons made short work of demon princes as well (T6 vs T7 was a huge thing here).

Drones are far less survivable than PBC's for one key reason; overcharged plasma. Wounding on a 3+ vs a 4+ is a huge difference, but it also gives your opponent no choice; they must overcharge to hurt the PBC's reliably. Plus the +2 wounds is big.

That said, I'm looking at ways of making a CSM detachment that hits hard, and is mobile; doing the "billions of lascannons" thing is pretty meh. we'll get destroyed by similar lists from the SM side of things, and after seeing destroyers in action, 15 str 6 ap 3 shots hitting on 2's rerolling 1's.... I now see that we can't play the same "gunline" game as others. And I don't think we need to, because we can combine hard hitting units from several codices (1k sons, CSM) with resilient units (DG, nurgle).

Anyone have any experience running CSM Biker Lords? I'm thinking they may be a great supreme detachment; with a powerfist they can pummel stuff pretty well, attacking whatever they want with abandon. They move 14", giving them a sick 26" threat range. You can arm them with a variety of guns, while they are expensive, throwing a Combi-Plasma or a Melta means you can pew-pew before charging in to clobber something heavy. As well, 6 wounds, T5, and a 4++ isn't too shabby. I'm just not sure what mark you'd use. Plus, because they will be targeting vehicles/individual chars, you can use the boon stratagem to make them progressively deadlier. Top it off with targeting them with Diabolic Strength, Str 10 and 5 attacks doesn't seem so bad!

Honestly, biker lords are middling in my experience. Just make a jetpack lord, and hide him behind other jetpackers or even bikers. The bike isn't worth the points for what you get on a Lord, especailly since it uses the index Lord points, meaning it is just SLIGHTLY overcosted.

Agreed. Bike lords are not worth it in competitive situations, but are fun in different ways.

Also consider a deamon prince without wings vs bike lords, you get so much more for such a small amount off points over the biker Lord.

As for the hard hitting chaos marines force, what are you actually looking for? Hard hitting melee or fire support? Choosen with combi bolters and chainswords are suddenly a decent option, low points, lots of Dakka and lots of regular attacks in melee. Have them getting out of a rhino can be effective.

Example combo that is both semi competitive and fun to do.

Biker Lord, 10 choosen, all w/ chainswords, 5 with combi bolters, with a rhino and a sorcerer from thousand sons (I am a firm believer that tsons are both an amazing singles army and a terrific support army). Have the choosen get in the tsons rhino. Run it up full speed with chaos Lord behind it. Cast glamor of tzeentch on the rhino then pop smoke. Enjoy -2 to hit, a chaos Lord that is sage behind the rhino, and a bunch of choosen about to jump out and unload 30 bolter rounds into an enemy then charge in for another 34 attacks. Yea it's basic attacks but even a basic attacks in mass like that can do damage. And most players won't try and waste shots vs something that is -2 to hit when it's when only thing like that, they will shoot something else allowing the choosen to get there unless you make the choosen really expensive. Never do that, try and keep choosen as cheap as possible, they cost enough as it is.

If your taking the Lord on a bike vs a deamon prince the only real reason is you want the Lord to have a special weapon like the black mace or the murder sword. But for a regular chaos dp the best loadout is slaanesh with elixer and dual talons. Diabloc strength is nasty on him. Using tsons again add a deamon prince with warlord trait eatherstride and wings so you have a t1 assault from him, followed by a t2 assault from the choosen. You really can make a strong, fast, and hard to get a grip upon force for chaos with all their abilities.

I find deathguard and nurgle deamons really shine when they are all alone, mono nurgle. But tzeentch and slaanesh work well together. Khorne doesn't care, it's a hulk smash force.

Azuza001 wrote:
Have the choosen get in the tsons rhino. Run it up full speed with chaos Lord behind it. Cast glamor of tzeentch on the rhino then pop smoke.

I don't think you can do that. Rhinos have <LEGION> Keyword and you can't transport units from another legion. I don't have my rulebook at hand so please correct me if I'm wrong.

 Nym wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Have the choosen get in the tsons rhino. Run it up full speed with chaos Lord behind it. Cast glamor of tzeentch on the rhino then pop smoke.

I don't think you can do that. Rhinos have <LEGION> Keyword and you can't transport units from another legion. I don't have my rulebook at hand so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. Legions can only use their own transports.

 Zid wrote:

Anyone have any experience running CSM Biker Lords? I'm thinking they may be a great supreme detachment; with a powerfist they can pummel stuff pretty well, attacking whatever they want with abandon. They move 14", giving them a sick 26" threat range. You can arm them with a variety of guns, while they are expensive, throwing a Combi-Plasma or a Melta means you can pew-pew before charging in to clobber something heavy. As well, 6 wounds, T5, and a 4++ isn't too shabby. I'm just not sure what mark you'd use. Plus, because they will be targeting vehicles/individual chars, you can use the boon stratagem to make them progressively deadlier. Top it off with targeting them with Diabolic Strength, Str 10 and 5 attacks doesn't seem so bad!

I found myself considering biker lords yesterday for a different purpose. Perhaps summoning? I'm bound to find a way to utilize it dammit! So with a biker lord and on turn one you can turbo boost him up the board, preferably behind LOS blocking terrain so he can't get focused. He's likely going to be alone because there's not much else that can keep up with his 20" advance - unless you have access to warp time, lord knows I don't. On a Dawn of War deployment, 20" would put you a little bit past the center of the board which could be ideal for that sweet, sweet turn 2 summoning. If you're opponent is sitting back then you've got the opportunity for forward summoning which is typically what you want. The closer you can get your Daemons to their gunline, the better. Turn 2 rolls around and you've got however many biker lords you committed to this ready to summon. Start rolling for summons and bust out the stratagem that lets you summon again with the same character and now you've got a potentially decent sized Daemon force on the board - and you didn't even have to drop any CP's. But maybe you opt to also use Denizens of the Warp and put some Daemons in deepstrike. Bring them in as well for a potentially overwhelming Daemonic force, all of which could possibly in range for charges.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Nym wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Have the choosen get in the tsons rhino. Run it up full speed with chaos Lord behind it. Cast glamor of tzeentch on the rhino then pop smoke.

I don't think you can do that. Rhinos have <LEGION> Keyword and you can't transport units from another legion. I don't have my rulebook at hand so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. Legions can only use their own transports.

Ah. I missed that.

Ok so keep the strategy and drop the glamor, make it just -1 to hit from smoke. Still is less likely to get shot at.

Azuza001 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Nym wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Have the choosen get in the tsons rhino. Run it up full speed with chaos Lord behind it. Cast glamor of tzeentch on the rhino then pop smoke.

I don't think you can do that. Rhinos have <LEGION> Keyword and you can't transport units from another legion. I don't have my rulebook at hand so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. Legions can only use their own transports.

Ah. I missed that.

Ok so keep the strategy and drop the glamor, make it just -1 to hit from smoke. Still is less likely to get shot at.

Well, maybe to get hit.

People have a perception Rhinos are tissue boxes that blow away with the wind. The reality is a little different, but usually it's a good thing when someone is using their heavy weapons on a Rhino instead of something more important.

Anything you can do to make an opponent waste a few plasma shots is a good thing.

How are people feeling about the Defiler after Chapter Approved?

140 Base Cost is pretty cheap, and his wargear options are cheap to. 169 points gets you a Battle Cannon, Reaper Auto Cannon, Defiler Scourge, and a Combi Bolter. That feels pretty reasonably priced for 14 wounds with a 5++ and regeneration. BS/WS 4+ is pretty lame, but prescience, a nearby lord, or just using daemonforge can mitigate that to an extent, hes pretty scary in melee if he can close in as well.

Even as just a big distraction carnifex, he seems like he'd be worth it a lot of the time.

 akaean wrote:
How are people feeling about the Defiler after Chapter Approved?

140 Base Cost is pretty cheap, and his wargear options are cheap to. 169 points gets you a Battle Cannon, Reaper Auto Cannon, Defiler Scourge, and a Combi Bolter. That feels pretty reasonably priced for 14 wounds with a 5++ and regeneration. BS/WS 4+ is pretty lame, but prescience, a nearby lord, or just using daemonforge can mitigate that to an extent, hes pretty scary in melee if he can close in as well.

Even as just a big distraction carnifex, he seems like he'd be worth it a lot of the time.

I think any Heavy Support option with melee skills is a good thing but will always be situational. Points-wise, he's efficient, but tactics-wise, it's rare that a Defiler sees combat.

140 points for something where the best weapon option is twin lascannons is a little expensive, don't you think?

 akaean wrote:
How are people feeling about the Defiler after Chapter Approved?

140 Base Cost is pretty cheap, and his wargear options are cheap to. 169 points gets you a Battle Cannon, Reaper Auto Cannon, Defiler Scourge, and a Combi Bolter. That feels pretty reasonably priced for 14 wounds with a 5++ and regeneration. BS/WS 4+ is pretty lame, but prescience, a nearby lord, or just using daemonforge can mitigate that to an extent, hes pretty scary in melee if he can close in as well.

Even as just a big distraction carnifex, he seems like he'd be worth it a lot of the time.

I am trying to build a Dark Mechanicus themed army that takes two and a Chaos Land Raider. I'm struggling with ... damn near everything else. What do I put in the Land Raider other than my Hellwright on Abeyant? What sort of troops should a Dark Mechanicus army have? What other units?