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'rubrics are hard to kill and have no other redeeming qualities'

Really?

My 20 man rubric squad took out around 50 csm models in the last TS game I played. They are our troops and they are nice and fluffy

Stop being salty

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

So what makes the Str 6 so good? As I have pointed out it does worse vs everything except Guardsman and T8+ models, and thats compared to the CHEAPEST force weapon you can take. The Axe out performs it everywhere, and is 2 points more that is a nothing upgrade.

Got a mathammer table for this or something?
I find it hard to believe a sword beats a staff against T6

According to my calculations the exalted actually beats a sorcerer with an axe at every T, using a 3+ save as the baseline. If you factor in invulnerable saves then the sorcerer is just an embarrassment. Turns out better WS and more attacks is pretty valuable!

The ability to take a combi-melta is a real advantage but considering that makes the axe sorcerer WAY more expensive I'm pretty sure the exalted is fine.

TzeentchNet wrote:
You can't take a lightning claw and combi weapon on a Sorcerer.

As far as the petard, RAW you take a mortal wound in ANY phase for any attack you roll 1 on. Doesn't matter if you use the petard or not. It doesn't state "with this weapon" in that clause. Same reason you don't need to use a chainsword to get the extra chainsword attack. Doubt its intentional, but that's what it says.

I was thinking a force axe I'm not sure why I wrote lightning claws.


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 fwlr wrote:
'rubrics are hard to kill and have no other redeeming qualities'

Really?

My 20 man rubric squad took out around 50 csm models in the last TS game I played. They are our troops and they are nice and fluffy

Stop being salty

Yes really. I'm not interested in stories about how people are really bad at playing the game. I could use half that many space chaos Space Marines and kill twice as many rubrics.


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Arachnofiend wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

So what makes the Str 6 so good? As I have pointed out it does worse vs everything except Guardsman and T8+ models, and thats compared to the CHEAPEST force weapon you can take. The Axe out performs it everywhere, and is 2 points more that is a nothing upgrade.

Got a mathammer table for this or something?
I find it hard to believe a sword beats a staff against T6

According to my calculations the exalted actually beats a sorcerer with an axe at every T, using a 3+ save as the baseline. If you factor in invulnerable saves then the sorcerer is just an embarrassment. Turns out better WS and more attacks is pretty valuable!

The ability to take a combi-melta is a real advantage but considering that makes the axe sorcerer WAY more expensive I'm pretty sure the exalted is fine.

20 points is not way more expensive. It's a little more expensive but at the same time they can put a lot more wounds on the bigger targets that you need to be able to handle because the rest of the army can't.


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 BoomWolf wrote:
If anyone actually ties to claim that, feel free to hit him with an oversized noodle, its the most absurd interpretation ever.

Unless you claim a marine with a plasma gun that punches someone kills himself on a roll of a 1? because it has the same kind of wording.

Agreed.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

So what makes the Str 6 so good? As I have pointed out it does worse vs everything except Guardsman and T8+ models, and thats compared to the CHEAPEST force weapon you can take. The Axe out performs it everywhere, and is 2 points more that is a nothing upgrade.

Got a mathammer table for this or something?
I find it hard to believe a sword beats a staff against T6

25 CSM are going to wipe out 40 Rubrics? How, exactly. (More to the point, why are you even using CSM?)

I think the main strength of the Rubrics is that they effectively force the enemy to focus anti-tank (damage 2+ weapons) on them in order to effectively kill them.

A 2+ save vs small arms and normal close combat attacks and a 4++ with likely rerolls of 1s vs regular plasma and power weapons either forces the enemy to overcharge plasma at them, or focus autocannons, missiles, melta, or las at them, which is typically not worth it for killing a single marine, and they still get to use their 5+ and reroll 1s with the HQs around them.

Plus their guns are pretty good at killing infantry and light tanks. My marines seemed to mostly melt vs their shooting, and even t7 3+ razorbacks didn't like getting wounded on 5s and making 5+ saves vs bolters.

I played a game against 30 or so Rubrics and 5 Scarabs, and they were incredibly hard to grind through. I don't think my opponent's list was ideal (he had something like three 10 man rubrics, 20 or so Tzaangors, a Predator, two hellbrutes, Ahriman (sic?), and 2 exalted sorcerers all footslogging), but it was a pretty close game and I consider myself fairly competitive, though still obviously learning this edition.

The Tzaangors were fairly useless in the game we played, as they die easy and morale ate at them pretty heavily, and I managed to kill the predator and hellbrutes early with my SW shooting list, but the Rubrics and Scarabs were so hard to kill. Also having to deal with 3 baby smites and 3 big smites + the other 3 powers was pretty annoying as I only had 1 deny per turn in my list.

I think if he had his guys in rhinos to speed up their advance, and other hard to kill threats to force me to spend my anti-tank shooting on, he would have fared much better and perhaps even won the game.

TzeentchNet wrote:
25 CSM are going to wipe out 40 Rubrics? How, exactly. (More to the point, why are you even using CSM?)

Plasma Rifles.

As an example 176 points of guardsman with plasma rifles can kill 260 points worth of Rubrics per turn.

I would bring the chaos Space Marines in units of 5 give Combi plasma to the aspiring champion and a plasma gun to one of the regular guys. that's 20 plasma gun shots bring a chaos Lord and give him a plasma gun too. You're paying less points way less points you can kill 8 Rubric Marines a turn with that. Five turns 40 Rubric Marines.

OK so a situation that won't ever happen. Got it.

I was under the impression that CSM never brings actual chaos marines because Havocs are just the same thing but better.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
25 CSM are going to wipe out 40 Rubrics? How, exactly. (More to the point, why are you even using CSM?)

Plasma Rifles.

As an example 176 points of guardsman with plasma rifles can kill 260 points worth of Rubrics per turn.

I would bring the chaos Space Marines in units of 5 give Combi plasma to the aspiring champion and a plasma gun to one of the regular guys. that's 20 plasma gun shots bring a chaos Lord and give him a plasma gun too. You're paying less points way less points you can kill 8 Rubric Marines a turn with that. Five turns 40 Rubric Marines.

Why exactly arn't the rubrics shooting back these 5 turns?

Rubrics only have 2+ if the enemy shooting is AP0. Most armies sporting AP0 shots put them out in high volume, and most actual armies have plenty of heavy bolter / assault cannon fire.

Khornezerkers, Razorbacks, Stormtalons and Stormravens, Harlequin Troupes with caresses, Havoc Squads, Devastator Squads ...

The issue is that fielding a bunch of pseudo terminators (which is what rubrics basically are at 5" move 5++ and sometimes having a 2+ save) isn't good. Grey Knights are borderline and their actual terminator units come with much better gear.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
25 CSM are going to wipe out 40 Rubrics? How, exactly. (More to the point, why are you even using CSM?)

Plasma Rifles.

As an example 176 points of guardsman with plasma rifles can kill 260 points worth of Rubrics per turn.

I would bring the chaos Space Marines in units of 5 give Combi plasma to the aspiring champion and a plasma gun to one of the regular guys. that's 20 plasma gun shots bring a chaos Lord and give him a plasma gun too. You're paying less points way less points you can kill 8 Rubric Marines a turn with that. Five turns 40 Rubric Marines.

Why exactly arn't the rubrics shooting back these 5 turns?

sure they are but there killing guys with bolters.


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TzeentchNet wrote:
OK so a situation that won't ever happen. Got it.

Yes you have decided and so it is decreed it will never happen because you said so.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
25 CSM are going to wipe out 40 Rubrics? How, exactly. (More to the point, why are you even using CSM?)

Plasma Rifles.

As an example 176 points of guardsman with plasma rifles can kill 260 points worth of Rubrics per turn.

I would bring the chaos Space Marines in units of 5 give Combi plasma to the aspiring champion and a plasma gun to one of the regular guys. that's 20 plasma gun shots bring a chaos Lord and give him a plasma gun too. You're paying less points way less points you can kill 8 Rubric Marines a turn with that. Five turns 40 Rubric Marines.

Why exactly arn't the rubrics shooting back these 5 turns?

sure they are but there killing guys with bolters.

Ap -2 bolters though
I'd say its a safe bet they are netting kills.

Engio wrote:
Rubrics only have 2+ if the enemy shooting is AP0. Most armies sporting AP0 shots put them out in high volume, and most actual armies have plenty of heavy bolter / assault cannon fire.

Khornezerkers, Razorbacks, Stormtalons and Stormravens, Harlequin Troupes with caresses, Havoc Squads, Devastator Squads ...

The issue is that fielding a bunch of pseudo terminators (which is what rubrics basically are at 5" move 5++ and sometimes having a 2+ save) isn't good. Grey Knights are borderline and their actual terminator units come with much better gear.

Incorrect. Rubrics and Scarab Occult increase their save by +1 against weapons that only deal 1 Damage. AP doesn't matter, it can be AP-10, and Rubrics/SoT will still get +1 to their save, so long as each shot only does 1 Damage.

What he meant is that your save isn't a 2+ if they got an AP value.

Though that's a dumbass "point" to make, because that applies to every 2+ save in the game (and 3+, and so forth)

Engio wrote:
Rubrics only have 2+ if the enemy shooting is AP0. Most armies sporting AP0 shots put them out in high volume, and most actual armies have plenty of heavy bolter / assault cannon fire.

Khornezerkers, Razorbacks, Stormtalons and Stormravens, Harlequin Troupes with caresses, Havoc Squads, Devastator Squads ...

The issue is that fielding a bunch of pseudo terminators (which is what rubrics basically are at 5" move 5++ and sometimes having a 2+ save) isn't good. Grey Knights are borderline and their actual terminator units come with much better gear.

Then spread your hate elsewhere then. Rubrics are troops. They may not be fantastic in-game but they have awesome models and fluff. If your going to point out how trash rubrics are let me point out base csm.

This thread is about how to win with TS not about 'let's take a dump on rubrics'

They're also actually pretty good you'll find when you field them.

 BoomWolf wrote:
What he meant is that your save isn't a 2+ if they got an AP value.

Though that's a dumbass "point" to make, because that applies to every 2+ save in the game (and 3+, and so forth)

Exactly!
Not having a 2+ does not mean that the +1 on the save is not there.

Had another game today, tried some different tactics and actually became convinced that 1K sons are not trash-tier. My conclusion is that they're best run as a mix between Rubrics, SoT, vehicles and a dash of screening units.
I ran the following in a 150 points game:

Daemon prince w/ axe (no wings)
Exalted sorcerer
Exalted sorcerer

Stock Scarab occult termies

Min squad rubrics w/ 2 flamers
Min squad rubrics w/ 2 flamers
10x Cultist
10x Cultist

3x Spawn

Heldrake w/ baleflamer

Rhino (2x combi-bolter)
Rhino (2x combi-bolter)

We played "The relic". My opponent was playing BA.

I had the Spawn stick with the Daemon prince. First turn I warpsped the spawn, 2nd turn I warpsped the DP himself and it worked out surprisingly well but I imagine things would've turned sour if I failed one of those warpspeeds. I reckon wings are still a must on the DPs, if only to fall back out of combat.
The cultists advanced in order to screen the Rhinos while the Heldrake went full speed across the table to assault a razorback in order to draw some fire. They performed their duty as cannon fodder splendidly.

Rhinos are surprisingly effective at getting things across the table. My opponent wasn't able to deal with both of them before they got my rubrics into position to use their flamers.
I noticed that I had some problems with his 2 dreadnoughts (altough eventually I did manage to kill one of them with some psychic dakka). I'm definitely thinking about adding 1 to 2 laspreds into my army to play at 1850-2000pts. In this list, I probably would have replaced the Heldrake with a laspred. Heldrakes seem pretty meh for their points cost. They offer very little other than the ability to zip over the battlefield (altough that is pretty good if you're playing tactical objectives).

Tomorrow I have another game where I'm going to try something entirely different.

Engio wrote:
The issue is that fielding a bunch of pseudo terminators (which is what rubrics basically are at 5" move 5++ and sometimes having a 2+ save) isn't good. Grey Knights are borderline and their actual terminator units come with much better gear.

Except Grey Knight Terminators are over twice as expensive as Rubric Marines per model. Try again.

Rubric Marines are actually pretty damn good. The new to-wound chart, lower cost per unit, new AP system and changes to cover make them far deadlier than they have been in so long. Flat out ignoring 3+ armour saves did jack-all in the previous system thanks to easily accessed cover, now the -2 AP means that even 6+ armoured hordes in cover get no save now whereas Marines are still unlikely to survive your shooting. If you play a proper combined arms type of list, people won't want to shoot their anti-tank weapons at your Rubrics and will instead ideally save them for Scarab Occult and tanks, leaving the Rubrics to get +1 to their saves against most enemy shooting. Mine have done well at gunning down most things and do a great job of holding the line. For a TROOPS choice, I'm more than happy with that.

Yeah, the inferno boltguns are exceptionally strong in this edition. I've had success ripping through a variety of targets with them, either the Rubric or Scarab Occult varieties.

Has anyone tried running a Contemptor as support for Thousand Sons? I'm thinking of ordering one and using it in place of a helbrute to soak up fire for my rubrics and deal with tanks or monstrous creatures.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ap -2 bolters though
I'd say its a safe bet they are netting kills.

Most definitly. Problem is your not going to net very many due to lack of volume.

 YoungSolomon wrote:
Has anyone tried running a Contemptor as support for Thousand Sons? I'm thinking of ordering one and using it in place of a helbrute to soak up fire for my rubrics and deal with tanks or monstrous creatures.

I have, but I came to the conclusion that deredeo's are probably far better, so I'm getting myself one of those.

Page 118 – Units, Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch
Change the points per model value to read ‘146’.

Sorry guys

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Page 118 – Units, Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch
Change the points per model value to read ‘146’.

Sorry guys

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

The regular exalted took a 26 points increase as well.

Guess there is no reason to take them now. get one ahriman, and nothing else. (or magnus), he's a cheaper, exalted who casts better.

At least until next FAQ when I'm sure they'll nerf them as well.

Its like GW dosen't understand being a psyker is hardly worth any points when you got multiples because of the rule of one.



Also, ANY rule creating a new unit costs reinforcements point unless otherwise stated.
so magnus nerf, and bolt of change is just a worse smite.

Eh, Bolt of Change is a smite you can cast after you've already used smite.

The Exalted nerf is seriously inexcusable. It's a useless model now.

Aye Exalted got nerfed to dust.

I thought they were going to clarify specifically that the Chaos Spawn conversion was free, not basically remove it as a rule for Matched Play, hah!

On the plus side the Forge World FAQ is coming (probably with the Legion note) and the CD Daemon Prince is now more useful as he can't be targeted if screened. And All Is Dust was clarified for the two people on the planet who didn't think it applied to invuls, I guess?

Damn the newest FAQ really hit 1ksunz sorcerors hard, I don't think I'm going to tell my buddy yet. I'll let him get a few more games with them in, before he has to gone to terms that GW really hates him. He was so happy to finally be playing them. I won't ever forget what he said when he finished reading the index "My sorcerors are actually worth taking now! I'm actually going to take these guys!" Not anymore he won't....

On the lighter side of things, Rubric marines got a buff. All is dust stacks with their invulnerable save now. Giving them a Stock 2+/4++ (unless multidamage as per usual), which makes the Sorceror/deamon prince combo all the more alluring for those sweet rerolls of 1.


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Nope, he just texted me... He knows. And is very sad. Though he says he still is going to use them.

Rubrics weren't buffed, they were clarified. Most people were already running All Is Dust as working on invulns.

They were always going to get a price hike. There was no way around it. I never liked them much anyways. More of tge same when it came to TS which need a bit more diversity when it comes to roles units can fill. More S4 AP-2 shooting is not whats needed for TS they need reliable anti tank and reliable anti horde.


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 Tsol wrote:
On the lighter side of things, Rubric marines got a buff. All is dust stacks with their invulnerable save now. Giving them a Stock 2+/4++ (unless multidamage as per usual), which makes the Sorceror/deamon prince combo all the more alluring for those sweet rerolls of 1.

That wasnt a buff it was a clarification that honestly wasnt needed. It specifically says add 1 to save rolls. A buff would be something like having them rerolling 1s and 2s on invul saves which would probably be a bit much.

lookin to expand on my 1k sons army, possibly adding some daemons. Is the Change Host a good addition for it's cost? Really wanting a greater daemon as my HQ but I haven't even touched on how to build a 1k sons army in this edition.