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Caederes wrote:

 Haechi wrote:

Tzaangors don't go up to units of 40, they don't have bonuses for being more than 20, and they don't have death to the false emperor.

I don't know why someone leaked those false informations.

Yeah in hindsight it's a bit strange that it was being reported by people that were watching the stream, but I think we all kinda figured at least parts of what you mention were false once the Shaman rules leaked with its +1 to-hit aura. All good in the end, we get that +1 to-hit on Tzaangors in some way at least!

Thank you for the information
A little bee told me they think Inferno Boltguns and Inferno Combi-Bolters dropped in points, is that false? Cheers!

Hmmm....so Exalteds (and Ahriman) are now essentially Sorcerer Lords, as they should be. Nice! Means Daemon Princes aren't quite as auto-take as before.

No drop in points, DP are even more auto take as ours are stronger than any other.

Cheers Auto-take only in the sense that you don't need a DP for re-roll 1s to-hit auras, competitively DPs are obviously still going to be a lot better! I'm thinking of getting that Ogroid Thaumaturge from AoS and converting him a bit to have wings for use as a DP. It's nice to see that our Exalted should be more useful now at least.

Can you deny that Daemon Princes know an extra power, and that they cast an extra power compared to other Daemon Princes?

Thank you again!

Caederes wrote:
Cheers Auto-take only in the sense that you don't need a DP for re-roll 1s to-hit auras, competitively DPs are obviously still going to be a lot better! I'm thinking of getting that Ogroid Thaumaturge from AoS and converting him a bit to have wings for use as a DP. It's nice to see that our Exalted should be more useful now at least.

Can you deny that Daemon Princes know an extra power, and that they cast an extra power compared to other Daemon Princes?

Thank you again!

Can't deny it but I don't remember what makes it so.

Thank you muchly!

Come to think of it, that is actually interesting as to why that is the case. Daemon of Tzeentch gives +1 to invulnerable saves, and the Legion Trait is +6" to spell range. Hmm. This codex just got a lot more interesting!

All I need is either a cast re-roll or peril protection relic, and I'm a happy man. I'll stick that on a basic sorc or price and not bother with magnus, since I have ahriman for my + to cast high warpcharge power character.

Confirmed no points changes on Rubrics and Scarab Occult other than the Sorcerers becoming regular members of the squad and thus not paying a tax (the change was already made for Rubrics in the Chaos Space Marine codex) is a bit of a bummer as I'd say Rubrics could use a 1-2 point drop and Scarabs either need a bit of a rework (i.e. 4+ invulnerable save stock increasing to 3++ with either Weaver of Fates or All is Dust) or a slightly bigger points drop. However, I find Rubrics are already very close to the sweet spot for points anyway and that Deep Strike stratagem + teleport Relic massively change the complexion of the unit as it is. Ultimately the big change both units needed was the addition of actual spell selection and that is what we've gotten, meaning our formerly terrible tax squad leaders are now useful again.

Our auras becoming more in-line with Chaos Space Marines makes sense, we've lost a little bit of durability (a lot in the case of Magnus or anything that could get to a 3++ reliably, i.e. Ahriman) though it bears mentioning that our Daemon units get 6++ from the Changeling, and Glamour of Tzeentch's -1 to-hit coupled with Temporal Manipulation's D3-wounds heal do offset it a bit as well. Our offensive punch increased by a lot thanks both to our squad leaders getting powers, our army as a whole getting more powers to play with (including auxiliary Tzeentch Daemons) and those sweet re-roll 1s to-hit auras. Previously Magnus would rarely stick with a Thousand Sons gunline meaning our only real offensive buffs were Prescience and a borrowed Veterans of the Long War from a Chaos Space Marine detachment. Now, we don't even need Magnus for re-roll 1s to-hit and we have Veterans of the Long War in-codex, so no need to break theme with a Chaos Space Marines detachment if you don't want them (however, Alpha Legion Cultists in general still look to be better than ours, and whether we have Tide of Traitors or not could make a big difference)

Our daemon engines (bar the Heldrake) and tanks can also get some good mileage out of the Warpflame Gargoyles stratagem; with the boosted range of Warptime, torpedoing Maulerfiends into multiple units at a time and popping that stratagem looks like a fun tactic. Warptime in general is still an absolute must-have for us, but comboed up with our new methods to teleport and general increase in offensive punch (i.e. Tzaangors next to a Shaman) is really nice and gives us nastier options. The new units look pretty good overall, the Enlightened with bows don't hit quite as hard as we initially thought but with layered buffs they can really start to put the hurt down on almost anything and they're really points efficient at it. Shamans buffing our already nice Tzaangors as well as being decently priced psykers on disks means I'm probably going to habitually field one, while the Mutalith from what we know is looking like a real beast.

Overall, while I would've been happy with some points drops here or there, we're still going to be in a way better spot than we were. Rubrics get elevated so darned much from Deep Strike capabilities, they are legitimately a really scary alpha strike unit given all the buffs we can put on them, and ditto Tzaangors for tying stuff up in combat. Our psychic phase with or without Magnus is improved by virtue of having more actual psykers and more powers to choose from, and generally speaking the re-roll 1s to-hit auras on Ahriman and Exalted are a godsend. Finally, we have a damned good Legion trait even if it is only a one-part rule that specifically affects psykers alone. Those extra ranges make our foot-sloggers less of a tax, our disk-riders and teleporters more frightening and generally give us a lot of flexibility. Staying out of deny range and still being able to cast offensive powers (enemy psykers rarely sit on the front-line) makes us more likely to actually accomplish stuff in the psychic phase, and the increased range of Warptime alone is incredible. Our character sniping capabilities in conjunction with one or two Tzeentch Daemon wizards (or just a Thousand Sons Daemon Prince) are really strong provided we have a few different ways to improve casting rolls.

Overall, exciting times

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-units-codex-thousand-sonsgw-homepage-post-2/

so, army setup-wise, here's what I've been toying with.

HQs: I want Ahriman on a disc and a winged daemon prince, changeling and a chariot.

Troops: 2x rubric squads in one rhino, 1x 30-blob of tzaangors, and 1 big unit of 25 pink horrors 2 small units of brimstones+blues .

That starts me at 1567 points, 9CPs. From there, I can add some anti-tank in the form of an exalted flamer, a forgefiend, a maulerfiend or a predator, a couple more rubric squads for 2 more powers, or some scarab occult. Seems like a good little place to start at 2k points. At 2.5k I get more toys to play with.

The Mutalith auras are crazy, especially as we know how they function - you can either pick one or randomly generate two each turn. They definitely don't help Rubrics but Scarab Occult sure as heck appreciate the Strength buff and re-roll charges/possible fight first, obviously though Tzaangors get the most mileage out of the melee buffs as far as Thousand Sons units are concerned. Adding extra AP or Strength to a Lasher Tendril Maulerfiend seems like a good bet, but giving 30 Tzaangors either AP-2 attacks or Strength 5? Yes and thank you.

Noteworthy uses for non Thousand Sons units are Pink Horrors in particular as well as Flamers and Screamers. Pink Horrors next to a Herald and a Mutalith get that sweet Strength 5 meaning they all of a sudden wound T4 on 2+ once you cast Flickering Flames on them, though if you are just trying to clear out bubble wrap then Strength 4 + Flickering Flames is enough.

Otherwise, more mortal wounds are always appreciated; the sixth power is basically Infernal Gaze that can't pick its target, and the first power emulates Mortarion. If you can get one or two of these into your opponents backfield, the mortal wounds from Warp Flare will start stacking up very quickly; it all depends on how fast these things are, and what phase the powers are triggered in. Remember also that the ranges on the powers double once the Mutalith is badly wounded per hikaru, meaning you all of a sudden start dealing an automatic mortal wound to every enemy unit within 18". Goodness. Noteworthy also is the stacking Leadership debuffs up to -3, all of a sudden the Treason of Tzeentch power is looking a bit more enticing....though functionally Night Lords would do the same trick better I'd imagine.

As far as the Enlightened go, knowing that the auto-wound extends to all their attacks (maybe not the Disk attacks though?) is very enticing, even with the bows their melee stats aren't bad due to their sheer volume of attacks, so if you're buffing them with Prescience and a Shaman anyway you get even more value out of it should they get up close. Not bad. The spears seem decent, adding the extra AP from a Mutalith looks like the best bet, with all the buffs they'll chew through a lot of things on the charge. I'm assuming they're cheaper than the bows.

Side note, the article seemingly confirms Tzaangor Shamans do not get access to the Daemon lore.

So can i take +1 invul Warlord trait to Magnus giving him 3++ ?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So can i take +1 invul Warlord trait to Magnus giving him 3++ ?

Magnus has the warlord trait for an extra psychic power

This Warlord trait +1 invul is aura or single model?

Just to himself.

so we need 2 Mutaliths, a lot of Tzaangors / Enlightened. 1 Prince (demons), 1 herold on disc, 1 Shaman and then fill the rest with tzeentch demons.

i think thats pretty cool. do we even need the marines / terminators?

Imho terminators are overpriced, deep strriking rubriks should be cool

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Imho terminators are overpriced, deep strriking rubriks should be cool

even without warptime it can be pretty cool. a lot of bolterfire

Bluthusten wrote:
so we need 2 Mutaliths, a lot of Tzaangors / Enlightened. 1 Prince (demons), 1 herold on disc, 1 Shaman and then fill the rest with tzeentch demons.

i think thats pretty cool. do we even need the marines / terminators?

Need? No. Not that their bad, the Marines especially look like they're quite good. Thematically, I love the idea of doing a Mutalith/Tzaangor/Tzeentch demon list. That sounds awesome.

sorry for off-topic, but can you guys help me?

is this worth to buy for a start: https://www.games-workshop.com/de-DE/Bforce-Tzeentch-Arcanites-Changecult-2017

what can i use for 40k?

All of it if you use the humans for Cultists. (they'll need some weapon add-ons, but that's not a deal breaker).

 Fenris-77 wrote:
All of it if you use the humans for Cultists. (they'll need some weapon add-ons, but that's not a deal breaker).

mhhhh but arent tzaangors a way better then cultists? i dont like them...

or we build in a alpha legion detachement for tide of traitors...haha

Bluthusten wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
All of it if you use the humans for Cultists. (they'll need some weapon add-ons, but that's not a deal breaker).

mhhhh but arent tzaangors a way better then cultists? i dont like them...

or we build in a alpha legion detachement for tide of traitors...haha

The question was "can I use them?" not "if I can use them, are they any good?". Yeah, Tzaangors are the superior unit in a TSons list. Tide of Traitors isn't a bad idea though...

Bluthusten wrote:
sorry for off-topic, but can you guys help me?

is this worth to buy for a start: https://www.games-workshop.com/de-DE/Bforce-Tzeentch-Arcanites-Changecult-2017

what can i use for 40k?

All of it. Arcanites can be used as cultists, shamans, enlightened, and skyfires will be in the codex when it drops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bluthusten wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
All of it if you use the humans for Cultists. (they'll need some weapon add-ons, but that's not a deal breaker).

mhhhh but arent tzaangors a way better then cultists? i dont like them...

or we build in a alpha legion detachement for tide of traitors...haha

Cultists make for a good screen when it comes to Mortal Wounds, the're only 4 points and can keep your tzaangors alive to deal the damage they need to deal.

Whats the cheapesf way to get a few Cultists in my Thousand Sons army, which can use the tide of traitors, but still fit into my fast moving „beast/Tzaangor/Demons“-Thousand son Army?

Maybe a sorcerer with Jumppack and Mark of tzeentch
+ 2x10 or 10 + 20 cultists?

I hope for some advice

Bluthusten wrote:
Whats the cheapesf way to get a few Cultists in my Thousand Sons army, which can use the tide of traitors, but still fit into my fast moving „beast/Tzaangor/Demons“-Thousand son Army?

Maybe a sorcerer with Jumppack and Mark of tzeentch
+ 2x10 or 10 + 20 cultists?

I hope for some advice

HQs
Dark Apostle
Exalted Champ

Troops
10 Cultists x3

260 points and 3 CP to spend on unseen outflanking cultists

Make them Alpha Legion for maximum irritation.

Cheapist points wise is to take them in a TS detachment along with what ever else your bringing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK6KUzIxirg

Full page by page review.

So our codex is basically a big push to drive AoS model sales...csm detachment rubrics are better than ours...what an absolute joke.

Mesokhornee wrote:
So our codex is basically a big push to drive AoS model sales...csm detachment rubrics are better than ours...what an absolute joke.

Hey, if they can't sell AoS then they can make the models for 40k instead and it's cheap as hell to do so.

Our demon prince got really good, 4++ and 2 powers to cast, exalted are still too expensive for what they do.

Hmmm for 1 cp we can give a vehicle inferno bolts...... almost tempting to field a twin bolter dread now, 114 pts with missile launcher isn’t a bad anti infantry platform.

All in all lackluster strats with the star being the deep strike strat. You won’t see a thousand son army without the deep strike relic or the 5+ reclaim command point one.

Luckily all this is made up for with the psychic powers. Casting the free reroll power first will be critical to staving off the miscasts, as will cabalistic focus.

demontalons wrote:
Our demon prince got really good, 4++ and 2 powers to cast, exalted are still too expensive for what they do.

Hmmm for 1 cp we can give a vehicle inferno bolts...... almost tempting to field a twin bolter dread now, 114 pts with missile launcher isn’t a bad anti infantry platform.

All in all lackluster strats with the star being the deep strike strat. You won’t see a thousand son army without the deep strike relic or the 5+ reclaim command point one.

Luckily all this is made up for with the psychic powers. Casting the free reroll power first will be critical to staving off the miscasts, as will cabalistic focus.

How do we get a reroll?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Imho terminators are overpriced, deep strriking rubriks should be cool

Points to shots, the Terminators are cheaper than the Rubric, and do not cost CP to deepstrike. I like them better and think they are close to be a must have in the list.

 Haechi wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Imho terminators are overpriced, deep strriking rubriks should be cool

Points to shots, the Terminators are cheaper than the Rubric, and do not cost CP to deepstrike. I like them better and think they are close to be a must have in the list.

Maybe i played them wrong but usually they deep strike, shoot at something, maybe charge and die next turn because they're too close to enemy army.