Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Heelidar wrote:
18 unique spells on paper.
On the tabletop, we have Rubric and SoT AS who knows only one discipline and can actually semi-reliably cast 2 spells out of it. One of which will be used by Magnus on every turn basis.
18 spells are only for Magnus and DP. Oh, and btw we are not bathing in cheap WC spells at all and don't have a lot of + to cast.
And another question. We have a Smite of an exalted sorc and a smite of AS, do they increase the price of one another?

"On paper"? What?

How many Rubric and Scarab units do you use? If you plan on only using two-three units total of them, you get enough powers for them to take advantage of and allow your other psykers to use Dark Hereticus or the Daemon disciplines. 5 of the 6 powers are WC7 or lower. Tzeentch's Firestorm averages out to a regular Smite that is 2 harder to cast which is fine given that you can snipe characters with it. Boon of Tzeentch is random but it's worth casting if you have nothing else to do if only because some of the stuff you can get is really good and there's only one result you probably won't want (Spawndom). Temporal Manipulation is a spell that you want to be casting each turn but doesn't have a high enough cast value or importance to be mandatory on someone like Magnus or Ahriman, so it works for the lesser psykers. Weaver of Fates is good to have on one of those units as a backup in case the primary psyker using it dies (which you should prepare for) and that's a similar situation with Glamour. If you only run two Rubric/Scarab units total, Firestorm and Manipulation are all they need. Our lack of Perils mitigation sucks but if you plan on using Magnus you've already got a great way to bypass it, otherwise do the smart thing and cast with your lesser psykers first so that you preserve any re-rolls (make sure you have Gaze of Fate cast first of course) for them.

18 powers are 18 powers. Your various psykers have access to the different lores to encourage diversity of psykers taken. A standard Thousand Sons army will want Ahriman, a Daemon Prince and a Terminator Sorcerer which is 7 powers, then one or two units of Rubrics/Scarabs gives you an additional 2. Ahriman and the Terminator Sorcerer get +1 or +2 to cast depending on traits/wargear, you can do the same with the Prince, you can also give +2 to any particular cast for 1CP.

And yes. All Smites count for the Beta rule.
The fact of the matter is, we can get around the Beta rule just fine and we've been doing that for a while. It doesn't kill our army like you seem to think it does. Could our powers have lower warp charge values or could we have more perils mitigation/casting bonuses? Sure. However, we can get by with what we have.

Caederes wrote:

Heelidar wrote:
18 unique spells on paper.
On the tabletop, we have Rubric and SoT AS who knows only one discipline and can actually semi-reliably cast 2 spells out of it. One of which will be used by Magnus on every turn basis.
18 spells are only for Magnus and DP. Oh, and btw we are not bathing in cheap WC spells at all and don't have a lot of + to cast.
And another question. We have a Smite of an exalted sorc and a smite of AS, do they increase the price of one another?

"On paper"? What?

How many Rubric and Scarab units do you use? If you plan on only using two-three units total of them, you get enough powers for them to take advantage of and allow your other psykers to use Dark Hereticus or the Daemon disciplines. 5 of the 6 powers are WC7 or lower. Tzeentch's Firestorm averages out to a regular Smite that is 2 harder to cast which is fine given that you can snipe characters with it. Boon of Tzeentch is random but it's worth casting if you have nothing to else to do if only because some of the stuff you can get is really good and there's only one result you probably won't want (Spawndom). Temporal Manipulation is a spell that you want to be casting each turn but doesn't have a high enough cast value or importance to be mandatory on someone like Magnus or Ahriman, so it works for the lesser psykers. Weaver of Fates is good to have on one of those units as a backup in case the primary psyker using it dies (which you should prepare for) and that's a similar situation with Glamour. If you only run two Rubric/Scarab units total, Firestorm and Manipulation are all they need. Our lack of Perils mitigation sucks but if you plan on using Magnus you've already got a great way to bypass it, otherwise do the smart thing and cast with your lesser psykers first so that you preserve any re-rolls (make sure you have Gaze of Fate cast first of course) for them.

18 powers are 18 powers. Your various psykers have access to the different lores to encourage diversity of psykers taken. A standard Thousand Sons army will want Ahriman, a Daemon Prince and a Terminator Sorcerer which is 7 powers, then one or two units of Rubrics/Scarabs gives you an additional 2. Ahriman and the Terminator Sorcerer get +1 or +2 to cast depending on traits/wargear, you can do the same with the Prince, you can also give +2 to any particular cast for 1CP.

And yes. All Smites count for the Beta rule.
The fact of the matter is, we can get around the Beta rule just fine and we've been doing that for a while. It doesn't kill our army like you seem to think it does. Could our powers have lower warp charge values or could we have more perils mitigation/casting bonuses? Sure. However, we can get by with what we have.

How many? Well at least 3 if we are talking about a TS army. Not about the disciples of Tzeench force.
Ok. I got your point. And I am not saying it is unplayable, it just strips us from half of our potential for reliability and makes us take spells semi-randomly just for the sake of forced variety.
And this rule is another nail in the coffin of pure TS forces.
btw what a DP is doing in a TS army? Is he a former Sorc that got lucky? Or was he invited by Magnus for a couple of cookies?
May be I am just too salty with this codex tzangors to think clearly.

Heelidar wrote:
How many? Well at least 3 if we are talking about a TS army. Not about the disciples of Tzeench force.
Ok. I got your point. And I am not saying it is unplayable, it just strips us from half of our potential for reliability and makes us take spells semi-randomly just for the sake of forced variety.
And this rule is another nail in the coffin of pure TS forces.
btw what a DP is doing in a TS army? Is he a former Sorc that got lucky? Or was he invited by Magnus for a couple of cookies?
May be I am just too salty with this codex tzangors to think clearly.

I think 3 is perfectly fine, if you're running Magnus and Ahriman one or both of them will take Glamour and Weaver, leaving Firestorm, Temporal and Boon for your Rubrics/Scarabs which they can do good things with. Another point to keep in mind is the Chaos Familiar stratagem which gives them access to any of those 18 powers for 1CP!

While that's fair, to be honest our baby-Smites didn't contribute *that* much; if you take three Scarab/Rubric units, you're getting off like two of those a turn on average rolls for 2 mortal wounds, generally speaking. With the above powers I mention, while they are harder to cast, you can use Firestorm to snipe characters and average more mortal wounds than the baby-Smite, and Temporal Manipulation is a really nice support power to have on one of the lesser psykers. The Beta Smite rules more affect our primary psykers, and usually you only want three-four depending on whether you take Magnus or not, you can still get around it thanks to our various casting bonuses. On that point, I kinda disagree; new Magnus - while weaker competitively due to alpha strikes having an easier time against him - makes our psychic phase way better than it was pre Beta rules, especially in conjunction with Brotherhood of Sorcerers. Re-roll 1s in addition to various +1s from a Warlord Trait, a stratagem and wargear (for the Terminator Sorcerer) leaves us in a much better place than before in that sense.

A Thousand Sons Daemon Prince is indeed a former Thousand Sons that ascended to daemonhood, ergo why it is different to a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch from the Chaos Daemon codex. It fits fluff wise 100% in a "pure" Thousand Sons army.
Hey, you're not alone, many of us were disappointed with the codex in some way, large or small. I think it's incredibly stupid that the only stratagem specific to Rubrics and Scarabs triggers when their squad leader - arguably the most distinct thing about them (squad leader psyker, oh my!) - dies, to the point that I think it is actually an intentional slap in the face by the rules designers. I would have liked some minor points drops on both Rubrics and Scarabs as well as a boost to the invulnerable save of the Scarabs or a change to their version of All is Dust to work against Damage 2 and D3, but generally speaking I got almost everything I wanted. We're stuck with the reality of this codex, good or bad, so we may as well do our best to make the most of it.

If you want a fluff reason to have a demon prince in a thousand son army do what I did, buy an achean 30k robot paint it up and say that a sorceror was near death and transferred his soul into it. Bam done

why would a daemon prince be against fluff? The only Tsons against mutations IIRC are Ahriman's exiles, all the sorcerors working for Magnus are playing the great game just like all other chaos marines - look at the exalted sorcerors.

As for rubric powers, even in my most pure thousand sons army (1 squad of Tzaangor auxiliary, 1 squad of horror chaff plus basic herald but otherwise all Tsons) I have all of four aspiring/SOT sorcerors to figure out powers for. Firestorm, Boon, Temporal, Weaver, done.

That leaves me with Gaze of Fate on the herald, 2 on a daemon prince, 3 on ahriman, 2 on a jump pack sorceror, and that's generally pretty easy to figure out.

Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

A damage buff to rubrics would have been a good stratagem. As is though we can still make them work. Burn baby burnnnn

demontalons wrote:
A damage buff to rubrics would have been a good stratagem. As is though we can still make them work. Burn baby burnnnn

Yea, they kind of lack a punch for their points cost. We'll have to wait and see if deep strike will compensate for it.

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

That is a very good point, ultimately a +1 to-wound buff from VotLW and a +1 to-hit buff from Prescience already gives Rubrics all the damage related help they need, especially if you toss in a re-roll 1s aura from any of our expensive characters.

Some kind of stratagem that protects them against mortal wounds, perhaps? Or a stratagem that makes their All is Dust rule work against everything?

Caederes wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

That is a very good point, ultimately a +1 to-wound buff from VotLW and a +1 to-hit buff from Prescience already gives Rubrics all the damage related help they need, especially if you toss in a re-roll 1s aura from any of our expensive characters.

Some kind of stratagem that protects them against mortal wounds, perhaps? Or a stratagem that makes their All is Dust rule work against everything?

A mortal wound protection stratagem would be incredible. Something for like 2cp that makes models in a unit with the All is Dust rule immune to mortal wounds for the phase would be good last-ditch protection against perils and would be useful to drop in response to stuff like WOM-bots or other mortal spam.

the_scotsman wrote:

Caederes wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

That is a very good point, ultimately a +1 to-wound buff from VotLW and a +1 to-hit buff from Prescience already gives Rubrics all the damage related help they need, especially if you toss in a re-roll 1s aura from any of our expensive characters.

Some kind of stratagem that protects them against mortal wounds, perhaps? Or a stratagem that makes their All is Dust rule work against everything?

A mortal wound protection stratagem would be incredible. Something for like 2cp that makes models in a unit with the All is Dust rule immune to mortal wounds for the phase would be good last-ditch protection against perils and would be useful to drop in response to stuff like WOM-bots or other mortal spam.

I actually thought about an offensive stratagem. Like, make them shoot twice for 2cp, or make their bolters d2 for one shooting phase.
A Peril protection is something that should be done similar to GK as someone already suggested.

Heelidar wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Caederes wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

That is a very good point, ultimately a +1 to-wound buff from VotLW and a +1 to-hit buff from Prescience already gives Rubrics all the damage related help they need, especially if you toss in a re-roll 1s aura from any of our expensive characters.

Some kind of stratagem that protects them against mortal wounds, perhaps? Or a stratagem that makes their All is Dust rule work against everything?

A mortal wound protection stratagem would be incredible. Something for like 2cp that makes models in a unit with the All is Dust rule immune to mortal wounds for the phase would be good last-ditch protection against perils and would be useful to drop in response to stuff like WOM-bots or other mortal spam.

I actually thought about an offensive stratagem. Like, make them shoot twice for 2cp, or make their bolters d2 for one shooting phase.

I'd just worry they'd become too strong at that point in conjunction with our buffs and VOTLW. In the game I played last night, I had a squad of 10 pop out within rapid fire range of a mauler fiend and without any buffs besides a DP's hit aura they used VOTLW and took 8/12 wounds off the thing.

And yes, I know that Tzaangors have the ability to do that. I think that's going to be a problem from a balance perspective, and I think after GW's finished sorting out the problem of too-defensive hordes and super characters, the next thing they're going to have to tackle is super damage alpha strike lists.

The reason reapers are so dominant right now is that they're really the only thing in the game that reliably matches up well with super alpha strike shenanigans. They're the spider that swallows the fly right now, and in march with the big FAQ when they give them a nerf we're going to see a crap-ton of genestealer rush, bloodletter bomb, BA character bomb, tzaangor bomb and all kinds of dumb one-turn alpha strike stuff come down. Heck a one-point nerf on infantry squads would probably make that happen, Dark Reapers or no.

the_scotsman wrote:

Heelidar wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Caederes wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

That is a very good point, ultimately a +1 to-wound buff from VotLW and a +1 to-hit buff from Prescience already gives Rubrics all the damage related help they need, especially if you toss in a re-roll 1s aura from any of our expensive characters.

Some kind of stratagem that protects them against mortal wounds, perhaps? Or a stratagem that makes their All is Dust rule work against everything?

A mortal wound protection stratagem would be incredible. Something for like 2cp that makes models in a unit with the All is Dust rule immune to mortal wounds for the phase would be good last-ditch protection against perils and would be useful to drop in response to stuff like WOM-bots or other mortal spam.

I actually thought about an offensive stratagem. Like, make them shoot twice for 2cp, or make their bolters d2 for one shooting phase.

I'd just worry they'd become too strong at that point in conjunction with our buffs and VOTLW. In the game I played last night, I had a squad of 10 pop out within rapid fire range of a mauler fiend and without any buffs besides a DP's hit aura they used VOTLW and took 8/12 wounds off the thing.

And yes, I know that Tzaangors have the ability to do that. I think that's going to be a problem from a balance perspective, and I think after GW's finished sorting out the problem of too-defensive hordes and super characters, the next thing they're going to have to tackle is super damage alpha strike lists.

The reason reapers are so dominant right now is that they're really the only thing in the game that reliably matches up well with super alpha strike shenanigans. They're the spider that swallows the fly right now, and in march with the big FAQ when they give them a nerf we're going to see a crap-ton of genestealer rush, bloodletter bomb, BA character bomb, tzaangor bomb and all kinds of dumb one-turn alpha strike stuff come down. Heck a one-point nerf on infantry squads would probably make that happen, Dark Reapers or no.

I'd agree with this policy if not for the tzaangor strategem with similar effect.
And btw a squad of 10 rubrics still cost more than a maulerfiend. And after you took 8 wounds of it, I can still imagine it charging back and annihilating or crippling heavily the rubrics.

On beta smite I agree that units that can only deal 1 damage or cast in a single die should not be effected by it. I would have no problem with the rule if rubrics and gk got full smite.

On the LR with rubrics, the problem there is that you now made a massive juicy target for your opponant. It's basically a 500 point piniata. And that's the issue, if you take a LR your paying a lot for transport, where you can get more versatile firepower outta 2 preds and more survivability. If you load up the LR you now have a massive target.

Guys, this is the tactics thread, not the wishlisting thread.

Lets stick to making the most out of what we have, not thinking what we wanted to have.

Heelidar wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Heelidar wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Caederes wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Do I wish I had more stratagems for rubrics? Maybe, if they were really good. It'd have to be pretty awesome to convince me to not spend my CPs on Veterans of the Long War, Daemonforge, and deep strikes.

That is a very good point, ultimately a +1 to-wound buff from VotLW and a +1 to-hit buff from Prescience already gives Rubrics all the damage related help they need, especially if you toss in a re-roll 1s aura from any of our expensive characters.

Some kind of stratagem that protects them against mortal wounds, perhaps? Or a stratagem that makes their All is Dust rule work against everything?

A mortal wound protection stratagem would be incredible. Something for like 2cp that makes models in a unit with the All is Dust rule immune to mortal wounds for the phase would be good last-ditch protection against perils and would be useful to drop in response to stuff like WOM-bots or other mortal spam.

I actually thought about an offensive stratagem. Like, make them shoot twice for 2cp, or make their bolters d2 for one shooting phase.

I'd just worry they'd become too strong at that point in conjunction with our buffs and VOTLW. In the game I played last night, I had a squad of 10 pop out within rapid fire range of a mauler fiend and without any buffs besides a DP's hit aura they used VOTLW and took 8/12 wounds off the thing.

And yes, I know that Tzaangors have the ability to do that. I think that's going to be a problem from a balance perspective, and I think after GW's finished sorting out the problem of too-defensive hordes and super characters, the next thing they're going to have to tackle is super damage alpha strike lists.

The reason reapers are so dominant right now is that they're really the only thing in the game that reliably matches up well with super alpha strike shenanigans. They're the spider that swallows the fly right now, and in march with the big FAQ when they give them a nerf we're going to see a crap-ton of genestealer rush, bloodletter bomb, BA character bomb, tzaangor bomb and all kinds of dumb one-turn alpha strike stuff come down. Heck a one-point nerf on infantry squads would probably make that happen, Dark Reapers or no.

I'd agree with this policy if not for the tzaangor strategem with similar effect.
And btw a squad of 10 rubrics still cost more than a maulerfiend. And after you took 8 wounds of it, I can still imagine it charging back and annihilating or crippling heavily the rubrics.

I know about the Tzaangor stratagem, I don't think they should have it. Eventually, I think it's going to lead to the unit getting a points nerf, if they only do points changes in their balance updates.

in the instance of my game at least, it didn't charge them, because I just shot it with an exalted flamer and finished it off. But even if it had charged, it kills on average what, two rubrics when damaged to that level?

Point is, I definitely don't disagree Rubrics could use another bread-and-butter stratagem, I'd just rather see it be defensive rather than offensive, and I'd extra-like to see it focus around mortal wounds, which besides a psychic deny we don't have a good defense for. Rubrics are by nature a defensive unit, I don't need to be removing handfuls of enemy models with them for them to be good.

Unless it was a fall back and shoot or shoot in close combat stratagem. They could really use that.

I'm thinking a good strat is if you take a flamer squad, always give the sorcerer in that unit warp time, that way, when you get charged, flame on, fight, your turn, warp time right outta combat, flame on, let them charge you again.

Don't really need a strat for it, just carful planning.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
On beta smite I agree that units that can only deal 1 damage or cast in a single die should not be effected by it. I would have no problem with the rule if rubrics and gk got full smite.

On the LR with rubrics, the problem there is that you now made a massive juicy target for your opponant. It's basically a 500 point piniata. And that's the issue, if you take a LR your paying a lot for transport, where you can get more versatile firepower outta 2 preds and more survivability. If you load up the LR you now have a massive target.

Your right it is a massive target, but that's why you get the -2 to hit and 5++ for protection. At that point it's marine equivalents hitting on 5's, guards on 6's, and orks can't even hit it. Then you have to wound it then get past the invulnerable. Assuming you can get 16 wounds on it (doubtful) you can also repair it due to spells or warpsmiths, and it should be able to get the rubrics where they need to go.

Or don't put anything in it, use it as a massive fire point and distraction carnifex. It may work well especially if your opponent is not expecting it. I mean, who takes land raiders? I haven't seen one in ages, been trying to find a place for mine in a list and just can't find anywhere for it to go. Now I have an option.

On other topic I was thinking a 10 man squad of rubrics and a deamon prince for deep striking as an alpha bug hunt team. Use veterans of the long war to go after anything juicy and warp time on dp to get it moving and charge / finish it off. Between the raider running up with flamers and the dp drop and assault it is an aggressive and expensive force but one filled with potential to catch an enemy off guard who hears "oh your taking tsons? Gunline it is. "

 Backspacehacker wrote:
On beta smite I agree that units that can only deal 1 damage or cast in a single die should not be effected by it. I would have no problem with the rule if rubrics and gk got full smite.

On the LR with rubrics, the problem there is that you now made a massive juicy target for your opponant. It's basically a 500 point piniata. And that's the issue, if you take a LR your paying a lot for transport, where you can get more versatile firepower outta 2 preds and more survivability. If you load up the LR you now have a massive target.

its the issue with land raiders most factions who don't have our level of psychic support have. For us, a single target is better than two in many ways because the opponent can't just say "Ok, so I'll just target the one you didnt cast powers on, then".

Similar to magnus, the flaw with the LR is how first turn reliant it is, and it has an added weakness to getting tied up by fast chaff in melee. But like any superheavy, it will win you games where you get first turn, you drop everything on it, and your opponent just doesn't have enough to take it out. but they won't exactly be feels-good victories in my book.

Heelidar wrote:

And btw a squad of 10 rubrics still cost more than a maulerfiend. And after you took 8 wounds of it, I can still imagine it charging back and annihilating or crippling heavily the rubrics.

A maulerfiend on it's last chart would be lucky to kill two rubrics. Putting 8 wounds on it is a bit above average as well though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

On the LR with rubrics, the problem there is that you now made a massive juicy target for your opponant. It's basically a 500 point piniata. And that's the issue, if you take a LR your paying a lot for transport, where you can get more versatile firepower outta 2 preds and more survivability. If you load up the LR you now have a massive target.

A pinata they likely can't kill with -2 and heals, but with lots of Dark Reapers out there it is risky until they get nerfed.

the_scotsman wrote:


Unless it was a fall back and shoot or shoot in close combat stratagem. They could really use that.

You can use the dark matter crystal for that.

The problem with the landraider is that a squad of rubrics simply does not justify the cost of it.

pismakron wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Unless it was a fall back and shoot or shoot in close combat stratagem. They could really use that.

You can use the dark matter crystal for that.

The problem with the landraider is that a squad of rubrics simply does not justify the cost of it.

It's not just it's ability to transport, it's also it's laz cannons and heavy bolters.

If we were talking about simple troop transport I would say don't bother, go with rhinos. If we were looking for just long range fire Support again, just take 2 preds. What I am looking at is the combination of raiders ability to move forward fast with a high chance to not be hit and it's massive toughness as well as its ability to act as an anchor for for your army after it drops the rubrics down. You could pick something else to put in the raider but I don't think scarab occult would be a good choice.

Yes it's first turn reliant, but so is magnus and plenty of people take him.

pismakron wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Unless it was a fall back and shoot or shoot in close combat stratagem. They could really use that.

You can use the dark matter crystal for that.

The problem with the landraider is that a squad of rubrics simply does not justify the cost of it.

Oh no, it was more like "if youre already buying a land raider, put a squad of rubrics in it to hide them the first turn and save yourself a rhino"

I find I almost never leave squads in transports past the first turn, especially high value shooting squads like rubrics. The transports are purely ablative shielding vs anti elite weaponry turn 1. I'd much rather my rhinos eat 2 basilisks and then die, killing 1-2 rubrics, than my 10-man rubric squad eats 2 basilisks and gets wiped.

I just picked up my codex from my lfgs and I am very happy, the reasons I was trying to get a chaos detachment (some stratagems I was afraid they would only have access too) is not needed, they are in the book. it's a good day to be a thousand son player lol.

Azuza001 wrote:


What I am looking at is the combination of raiders ability to move forward fast with a high chance to not be hit and it's massive toughness as well as its ability to act as an anchor for for your army after it drops the rubrics dow

But why would you want a fire-support tank with 48" range guns that has to move forward to disembark troops? I mean, it doesn't take more than a charging squad of gretchin to silence a landraider for a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Oh no, it was more like "if youre already buying a land raider, put a squad of rubrics in it to hide them the first turn and save yourself a rhino"

I find I almost never leave squads in transports past the first turn, especially high value shooting squads like rubrics. The transports are purely ablative shielding vs anti elite weaponry turn 1. I'd much rather my rhinos eat 2 basilisks and then die, killing 1-2 rubrics, than my 10-man rubric squad eats 2 basilisks and gets wiped.

Let me get that straight: If you had, say, 3 rhinos with rubrics, you would disembark them in their own deployment (+3") in your own first turn, and then move them 5" and then shoot their guns? And then move the empty rhinos forward?

pismakron wrote:

But why would you want a fire-support tank with 48" range guns that has to move forward to disembark troops? I mean, it doesn't take more than a charging squad of gretchin to silence a landraider for a turn.

Warpflame Gargoyles + large footprint = win. It's unlikely that we'd encounter a mass of gretchin out front.

In most of my games with them so far...yes. I've had targets within 24" to shoot at. If my opponent doesn't leave his deployment zone then I'd not get them out but so far the 32" threat range has been sufficient to hop them out and hit something turn 1.

Bear in mind, in the gunline matchup I have 30 tzaangors dropping in and tying up as much of my opponents heavy firepower as possible. So the rubrics are usually deployed as far up as I can get them without exposing a rhino to the whole army, with the idea that the rubrics will have a turn where the opposing army is tied up with tzaangors, either trying to kill them or engaged by them.

I find transports work a lot like deep strike in 8th: you can stay on board but the tempo loss from doing so is often so bad that a sub optimal drop turn 1 usually has more impact than a better drop turn 2.

Daedalus81 wrote:

pismakron wrote:

But why would you want a fire-support tank with 48" range guns that has to move forward to disembark troops? I mean, it doesn't take more than a charging squad of gretchin to silence a landraider for a turn.

Warpflame Gargoyles + large footprint = win. It's unlikely that we'd encounter a mass of gretchin out front.

No, but then boyz, guardsmen, termagants, cultists, horrors, neophytes or any of the many screening units that are common right now. Or maybe just a squad of scouts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
In most of my games with them so far...yes. I've had targets within 24" to shoot at. If my opponent doesn't leave his deployment zone then I'd not get them out but so far the 32" threat range has been sufficient to hop them out and hit something turn 1.

Bear in mind, in the gunline matchup I have 30 tzaangors dropping in and tying up as much of my opponents heavy firepower as possible. So the rubrics are usually deployed as far up as I can get them without exposing a rhino to the whole army, with the idea that the rubrics will have a turn where the opposing army is tied up with tzaangors, either trying to kill them or engaged by them.

I find transports work a lot like deep strike in 8th: you can stay on board but the tempo loss from doing so is often so bad that a sub optimal drop turn 1 usually has more impact than a better drop turn 2.

Hmm, I guess. But don't you think that Rubrics needs to be in rapid fire range to make their points back?

The tzaangor drop just seems like such a weak version of the Ork boy jump. You need and 8 to make the charge with a bray horn, right?

Have you considered deploying a min squad of tzaangors/CC cultists next to your rubric rhinos, so that they can embark in the rhino after the rubrics has disembarked? Then the rhino can zoom forward with passengers, and the Rubrics can move and shoot?

I know some Ork players do that with Stormboyz deployed in transports. You get a +3" for you attempted first turn charge, and then the transport can load up with boyz + characters and go somewhere.

So it looks like Tzaangors on discs with spears are our vehicles killers? 2dmg on charge.
Did we get any points drop for Predators or other heavy guys?

Preds are the same as before. Personally I think our anti tank options are pretty good.

Forgefiend (Flickering flames or just deamonforge stratagem)
Hellbrute
Predator Tank
Land Raiders
Defiler (reaper wounding on 3's or 4's, battle cannon wounding on 3's if you cast Flickering flames onto it)

I see the enlightened tzaangors more elite killers, like terminators or bikers.

Guys, in the spanish codex Ahriman, Exalted Sorcerrors, Magnus, etc... keep their "Rerrolls invuls of 1" aura. Is that correct? Wasn't it nerfed? Or is a problem of copy paste from the SPanish Codex?