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it is Spanish codex only issue

Thanks!

What a good job the spanish team is doing... between this and deleting from the book all the fluff pages...

Can you cast flickering flames on a defiler? Can it gain the tzeentch rule

the_scotsman wrote:
Can you cast flickering flames on a defiler? Can it gain the tzeentch rule

You can, yes, as it is a Tzeentch Daemon.

Thousand Sons song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6T1b12ypzM

Tzaangors are looking really good! The ones on Disc have the Daemon keyword too, so they'd get the +1S near a Tzeentch Herald.

Deep striking in two blobs with the webway infiltation stratagem and teleport another with the dark matter crystal, and you have 90 goats who need to roll an 8 to charge.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
Tzaangors are looking really good! The ones on Disc have the Daemon keyword too, so they'd get the +1S near a Tzeentch Herald.

Deep striking in two blobs with the webway infiltation stratagem and teleport another with the dark matter crystal, and you have 90 goats who need to roll an 8 to charge.

How are you getting the herald there and covering them - more CP? How are you getting the shaman to be in range after they charge?

Has this been visited already? Waiting on my codex - did magnus and ahriman lose the reroll to 1's for invull save?

orkswubwub wrote:
Has this been visited already? Waiting on my codex - did magnus and ahriman lose the reroll to 1's for invull save?

Yes.

Has anyone summed up all the ways to buff Skyfires? I am currently in possession of 18 shelved after nerf in AoS.

Fielding them as a solid force in 40k would be awesome.
Shaman and prescience are the obvious couple for shooting unit. VotL is the overkill due to the auto wound on 4+.

Fan67 wrote:
Has anyone summed up all the ways to buff Skyfires? I am currently in possession of 18 shelved after nerf in AoS.

Fielding them as a solid force in 40k would be awesome.
Shaman and prescience are the obvious couple for shooting unit. VotL is the overkill due to the auto wound on 4+.

For damage output on skyfires? That's pretty much it. Reroll 1s and +2 to hit. Spear enlightened get more from the mutalith.

Defensively - the same as everyone else.

Fan67 wrote:
Has anyone summed up all the ways to buff Skyfires? I am currently in possession of 18 shelved after nerf in AoS.

Fielding them as a solid force in 40k would be awesome.
Shaman and prescience are the obvious couple for shooting unit. VotL is the overkill due to the auto wound on 4+.

Auras
DP re-roll 1s to hit
Exalted/Ahriman re-roll 1s to hit
Change Caster +1 Str
Shaman +1 hit
Karios/LoC improved LD
Changeling 6+++ save
Locus of Trickery CC shenanigans

Spells
Prescience + 1 hit
Weaver of Fate +1 invul save
Glamor of Tzeentch -1 to hit unit
Flicker Fire +1 to wound
Warp Time extra movement
Boon of Change +1 attack or Strength or Toughness roll d3
Diabolical Strength +2 Strength and +1 attack (Twistbray)
Temporal Manipulation 1d3 heal

Stratagems
Cycle of Slaughter attack a second time 2 CP
VotLW +1 to wound for phase 1 CP

Probably more strats cant think of anymore for some reason.

Webway Deepstrike 1/2 Units for 1/3 CP ( cant believe i forgot this one)

Warlord Traits
Daemon Spark reroll 1s to wound (Tzeentch)
Warp Tether re-roll LD tests

I'm pleasantly surprised to see the sorcerer and sorcerer in TA are not direct ports from the CSM book.

Though it sucks a little to lose the terminator options. Oh well.


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ZOMG! Asp sorcs can take plasma pistols! PEW PEW!

So looks like the fire frenzy stratagem is worded different for Thousand Sons than the other legions. It's keyworded to helbrute, which means the forge world helbrutes can join the double tap fun.
This is very good.

THOUSAND SONS Daemon Prince is realy good as well. It has 4+ invo and TWO SPELLS(!!!) and cost the same .

Captyn_Bob wrote:
So looks like the fire frenzy stratagem is worded different for Thousand Sons than the other legions. It's keyworded to helbrute, which means the forge world helbrutes can join the double tap fun.
This is very good.

It’s blatently a typo, but RAW my double butcher Leviathan can shoot twice. I probably won’t do this against friends...

Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised to see the sorcerer and sorcerer in TA are not direct ports from the CSM book.

Though it sucks a little to lose the terminator options. Oh well.

You can still get a terminator sorcerer with familiar though.

I'm thinking what will be better - 3 Predators with autocanons+twin lascannon or 3 Helbrutes with twin lascannon and missile launcher.

Predators have 12W each so 36 W total, Helbrutes have 8W each so 24W total but they do not degrade.

If 3 Predators are alive we can use Killshot for 1CP but for Helbrutes we can use FIRE FRENZY.


After thinking i think 3 Predators would work better.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I'm thinking what will be better - 3 Predators with autocanons+twin lascannon or 3 Helbrutes with twin lascannon and missile launcher.

Predators have 12W each so 36 W total, Helbrutes have 8W each so 24W total but they do not degrade.

If 3 Predators are alive we can use Killshot for 1CP but for Helbrutes we can use FIRE FRENZY.


After thinking i think 3 Predators would work better.

If one predator dies though...

Helbrutes are 366. Predators are 540. A mix wouldn't be a terrible idea. Fire Freny also has to target the nearest, which isn't great for anti-tank weapons usually.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I'm thinking what will be better - 3 Predators with autocanons+twin lascannon or 3 Helbrutes with twin lascannon and missile launcher.

Predators have 12W each so 36 W total, Helbrutes have 8W each so 24W total but they do not degrade.

If 3 Predators are alive we can use Killshot for 1CP but for Helbrutes we can use FIRE FRENZY.


After thinking i think 3 Predators would work better.

If one predator dies though...

Helbrutes are 366. Predators are 540. A mix wouldn't be a terrible idea. Fire Freny also has to target the nearest, which isn't great for anti-tank weapons usually.

I'd take the predators here. You get a lot more use out of predcannons than the missile launchers, and if you get first turn (which you probably will be getting 60% of the time) you get to spend one of the most efficient CPs you'll ever spend on killshot.

3 Preds and 2 Helbrutes then?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I'm thinking what will be better - 3 Predators with autocanons+twin lascannon or 3 Helbrutes with twin lascannon and missile launcher.

Predators have 12W each so 36 W total, Helbrutes have 8W each so 24W total but they do not degrade.

If 3 Predators are alive we can use Killshot for 1CP but for Helbrutes we can use FIRE FRENZY.


After thinking i think 3 Predators would work better.

If one predator dies though...

Helbrutes are 366. Predators are 540. A mix wouldn't be a terrible idea. Fire Freny also has to target the nearest, which isn't great for anti-tank weapons usually.

How do you get to those numbers? I mean, a hellbrute with twin fists is 122. But with twin lascannon and a missile launcher they are considerably more expensive

I think neither predators nor hellbrutes are more than average. Six las-canon shots at bs 3+ will do 7-8 wounds to a Leman Russ, which is not all that spectacular. The least bad way of running hellbrutes are probably with twin fists and twin combi-bolters. If you are loading up on lascannons you should bring no less than ten.

Contemptor Dreadnought with Butcher cannons is worth mentioning I think. Against a predator it's doing an expected 4 damage, as opposed to a 4-las predator doing 1.4 D6 worth. Predator just shades it.

But the contemptor is also great against multiwound elites, dropping a -2 leadership debuff on them too. And it comes in at 163pts, has a 5++ and 10 wounds, so it's tougher than the pred too.

I think 8 shots at 2+ is really nice, and while you're looking at -1AP, weight of fire will push shots through. Just my 2c worth.

pismakron wrote:


How do you get to those numbers? I mean, a hellbrute with twin fists is 122. But with twin lascannon and a missile launcher they are considerably more expensive

I think neither predators nor hellbrutes are more than average. Six las-canon shots at bs 3+ will do 7-8 wounds to a Leman Russ, which is not all that spectacular. The least bad way of running hellbrutes are probably with twin fists and twin combi-bolters. If you are loading up on lascannons you should bring no less than ten.

Yea fat fingered the cost in my brain. Helbrutes are 75 points more overall. Twin fists are cool, but getting them to their tanks takes a loooong time.


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grouchoben wrote:
Contemptor Dreadnought with Butcher cannons is worth mentioning I think. Against a predator it's doing an expected 4 damage, as opposed to a 4-las predator doing 1.4 D6 worth. Predator just shades it.

But the contemptor is also great against multiwound elites, dropping a -2 leadership debuff on them too. And it comes in at 163pts, has a 5++ and 10 wounds, so it's tougher than the pred too.

I think 8 shots at 2+ is really nice, and while you're looking at -1AP, weight of fire will push shots through. Just my 2c worth.

I will almost always do dual C-Beam.

Pros:
1) It can outrange almost anything if you have a firing lane to do so.
2) 24.1" : 2 * .833 * .666 * .833 * 4 = 3.7 vs pred
3) 48.1" : 2 * .833 * .666 * .833 * 6 = 5.5 vs pred
4) It is just as effective against infantry...causing 2D6 S6 AP0 hits if you kill a model, which is handy if your fire frenzy target is a horde.

Cons:
1) You can't ever move.

Daedalus81 wrote:

pismakron wrote:


How do you get to those numbers? I mean, a hellbrute with twin fists is 122. But with twin lascannon and a missile launcher they are considerably more expensive

I think neither predators nor hellbrutes are more than average. Six las-canon shots at bs 3+ will do 7-8 wounds to a Leman Russ, which is not all that spectacular. The least bad way of running hellbrutes are probably with twin fists and twin combi-bolters. If you are loading up on lascannons you should bring no less than ten.

Yea fat fingered the cost in my brain. Helbrutes are 75 points more overall. Twin fists are cool, but getting them to their tanks takes a loooong time.

With a first turn advance you are pretty much guaranteed to charge something on turn 2. I am not saying that it is great, but shooty dreadnoughts are mostly just free points for your opponent. The great thing about the classic assault-cannon dread is that it allows you to advance in your first turn while still shooting a little bit.

But TS has so many better options than dreads.

What’s a good mobile counter assault unit, anything chaos is ok. Are spawn our best choice now with the stratagem? Raptors? Warp talons? Looking to stay around 120 points.

pismakron wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

pismakron wrote:


How do you get to those numbers? I mean, a hellbrute with twin fists is 122. But with twin lascannon and a missile launcher they are considerably more expensive

I think neither predators nor hellbrutes are more than average. Six las-canon shots at bs 3+ will do 7-8 wounds to a Leman Russ, which is not all that spectacular. The least bad way of running hellbrutes are probably with twin fists and twin combi-bolters. If you are loading up on lascannons you should bring no less than ten.

Yea fat fingered the cost in my brain. Helbrutes are 75 points more overall. Twin fists are cool, but getting them to their tanks takes a loooong time.

With a first turn advance you are pretty much guaranteed to charge something on turn 2. I am not saying that it is great, but shooty dreadnoughts are mostly just free points for your opponent. The great thing about the classic assault-cannon dread is that it allows you to advance in your first turn while still shooting a little bit.

But TS has so many better options than dreads.

Like what?

Warp talons are still my favorite counter assault unit. They move fast, and warp time garuntees the charge with no overwatch when you drop them in.

if not predators or halbrutes than what? We do not have a lot of options

Played my first game with my thosand sons earlier today, know who my vehicle killer turned out to be? MoFo Defiler.

My plan was to use a forgefiend with an exalted sorcerers casting prescience and a changecaster casting Flickering flames but my friend wanted a bigger game so I grabbed a defiler for the whatevers. Then my friend got first turn and blew the forgefiend away before I got to do anything to it.

That's when I realized that the defiler actually fits better in this roll! Prescience + exalted got me hitting on 3's rerolling ones, weaver of fate got it to a 4+ invulnerable, glamor of tzeench got it to -1 to hit, and Flickering flames made its battle cannon wound toughness 8 on 3's and it's dual laz cannons wound on 2's vs everything! It blew a predator away on its first turn and then continued to sit there and be a serious pain, wounding vehicles down to their lowest teir each fire round. Rubrics made perfect anti infantry firepower and didn't need support, and cultists covered the area so nothing could get to me alpha strike wise. He ended up just trying to ignore it (and failing) by turn 4 because he could not do anything to it reliably, the one time he did put some wounds on it I just healed thanks to Temporal manipulation + infernal regeneration.

Yes that's a lot of spells to put into 1 thing, and yes Flickering flames works better on pink horrors, but I only had 10 of them and after they got shot first turn down to 3 it was no longer worth casting it on them.

He has already requested a rematch since he didn't expect the defiler to be so nasty thanks to the spells. I hope to have a second defiler by next week now, forget the forgefiend lol.