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There has been no change to Zhadsnark. He can charge and advance if he is within 6" of another biker warboss though.

Which is sweet in and of itself. Just with moving and advancing that's 21" plus the charge. 22-33" threat range is nice. Make him thevwarlord and give him legendary fighter trait. 6 S12 attacks hitting on 2+ On a possible first turn charge is nuts.

I can almost bet we will at least get a relic powerklaw without the -1 to hit abd another ability like zhardsnark klaw. In which case zhardsnark will all but be obsolete. Sure he gets an extra wound, and an extra atk, and max advance but is that worth ~25points? Maybe since it opens up a relic slot.. regardless good thing zhardsnark model will never be obsolete since he’s the only warboss on bike w pk model.

Edit: I sent feedback after the last faq from forgeworld to add the advance and charge to zhardsnark, as well as rules for the mekadread killsaw.

 JimOnMars wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
how do you lot deal with Tau onions of death? i ran into a 50 blob tau firewarrior onion and it basically won the game for him. He had the buffs and faction buffs to hit on 5s on overwatch and fall back and fire again from close combat, he also had a couple of broadsides and a bunch of markerlights and the max number of commanders. If you assault the onion you get hit by 150 S5 shots hitting on 5s so 50 hits, wounding on 3s so 33ish wounds which means 27 dead orkz before you even get into close combat and that's before supporting fire from the other units nearby. I thought Ghaz might be able to get away with eating overwatch, but trying to walk him up the board with escorts would have been disastrous so basically there was nothing I could think to do but hold objectives and hope...and since it was ITC....didn't work to well.

Assault it with a trukk. It probably won't survive, but most of the overwatch will be eaten up. Try to multi-assault at least 2 units, so he will be compelled to overwatch it.

If he's decent, the trukk will not survive his first turn, so you will need several. Yes, we need the price to come down for this to actually work in a game. Soon.

Soon.

This or Kans with their 3+ save and a Big Mek to help heal them. Fill the Trucks with Gretchen, then when the Trukk dies, the gretchen hop out in easy charge range to tie up the unit.

The biggest thing to remember is that the weakness of the Tau overwatch is that if surrounding units fire overwatch in support, they cannot fire overwatch again. If you send in a sacrificial unit like a single Kan (Grotzooka might actually be your friend here for once), let it be destroyed in overwatch, then hit the surrounding units with other stuff like Kommandos or Jumped boyz. As long as you make the charge, there will be no overwatch.
The Big Trakk with scorcha's might be good here too, since it's going to be the Orks that have to do horde clearing for once.

I don't think you can play the hide and outshoot game with the Tau. They are too good at what they do.

And Index vs Codex. Be happy with a close loss.

For what it's worth, burna bommers are my go-to tool for wiping out tau infantry since they aren't as cheap as guard and usually come in units of 10. Bomb and shootas combined are pretty much guaranteed to kill most of the unit, the rest then dies to moral.

Tau also really don't like the idea of the bommer exploding on top of them, so if you go first, there is a good chance of dropping both bombs.

10 strong squads? Do tau have any special reason to go over min size?

Nice rule for the codex: dying plane can choose where to crash (with some mortal wounds maybe...) very orky

Regarding Tau overwatch, do they have to declare exactly which units will be overwatching, before rolling any dice?

If so, and if the Ork player can convince the Tau player to actually obey the rules, this could be very helpful here.

FYI, its important to keep in mind that secondary units can only supporting over-watch once. Make sure you use tokens to keep track of who has or hasn't when your trying to use multiple charges to sort that out.

I tried lootas against tau last night, 3 msu scored me a couple of points but in terms of damage output, even against squishy targets they're not that strong. I expected to lose them fairly early on, but as I also run 6 kmks he spent time killing those off which spared the last mob until turn 5. The first mob went out turn 1, the second shortly after.

Tau drones and pathfinders are crux. Without markerlights tau shooting really loses its edge, and they have drones that allow range buffs too, they must die. Focus fire anything that shoots markerlights before all your ranged shooting is gone otherwise you will suffer.

Also, nearly everything except firewarriors has fly. A good tau player will screen with drones who can't be locked down, most battlesuits and stealth suits can also fly, so combat is tough against these units, they'll just step out and dakka what's left to death.

Also, in the beginning don't bother shooting at suits directly, he'll just throw the shots onto drones, but only after you've had to take on the higher toughness of the suit. Shoot straight at the drones until they're gone, then focus on the suits. Drones are nearly twice as expensive as firewarriors,so they'll rarely be sacrificed for them.

To recap, target priority for tau:

1. Anything with markerlights- drones/ pathfinders
2. Drones
3. Everything else.

Personally I tend to ignore battlesuits, we don't really have effective tools to take them down apart from kmk, but any tau player worth their salt is going to hit them first and hard. Also stealth suits are pure filth and with -1 to hit in shooting and in combat with 2 wounds a piece, and fly they're pretty tough to get rid of. I had a unit of 27 orks with pain boy whittled down to 10 by these guys alone. Took 2 rounds of combat and charging in against over watch twice to finally get rid of them. Their weapons kick out ridiculous amounts of anti- infantry firepower and they can deeps trike too. Filth.

Tau onion is just gonna curbstomp a greentide unless there is a wall in the middle of the table. If you want to assault them you need the shooting to smartly trim his overwatch support then somehow consolidate into multi assaults after making space to prevent his supporting overwatch in the first place.

You basically want to divide his stuff into two groups, markerlight support and other, and then focus that one group until it is gone. At least this way you can deprive him of quality dakka or quantity or his markerlight buffs. Probably still get tabled in six or less, I can't claim to have success against them.

I play against Tau frequently, and while I have yet to win a game I am getting closer.

My lists got a lot more effective when I swapped to more shooting units. Shoota boyz with rokkits do well against crisis suits- S4 shots mow down the drones, then each rokkit that hits has a good chance of 1-shotting a suit.

For stealth suits, weirdboyz are great- a nice D6 MW smite has the potential to ruin a min unit.

Remember to leave the bomb squigs at home, as every target will have flying.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding Tau overwatch, do they have to declare exactly which units will be overwatching, before rolling any dice?

If so, and if the Ork player can convince the Tau player to actually obey the rules, this could be very helpful here.

It functions like normal overwatch basically. If they're within 6" of another unit being charged, the outside unit can declare overwatch at that time as if they were being targeted, but they can't overwatch again that turn.

 JohnU wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding Tau overwatch, do they have to declare exactly which units will be overwatching, before rolling any dice?

If so, and if the Ork player can convince the Tau player to actually obey the rules, this could be very helpful here.

It functions like normal overwatch basically. If they're within 6" of another unit being charged, the outside unit can declare overwatch at that time as if they were being targeted, but they can't overwatch again that turn.

Just a quick note, it does NOT function like normal overwatch. Normal overwatch means that if the charging unit fails to complete the charge, the unit is free to overwatch again. The Greater Good unit-within-6" overwatch is only once per unit per turn. Your description of it was correct, but that actually is different behavior than normal.

When does everyone think we will start seeing rumors and leaks? If its early-mid july release it should start up soon.

I need my rumor fix damnit!

 JohnU wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding Tau overwatch, do they have to declare exactly which units will be overwatching, before rolling any dice?

If so, and if the Ork player can convince the Tau player to actually obey the rules, this could be very helpful here.

It functions like normal overwatch basically. If they're within 6" of another unit being charged, the outside unit can declare overwatch at that time as if they were being targeted, but they can't overwatch again that turn.

Yes, but not what I wanted to know. Say there are 4 units in range, in addition to the charged unit. Does the Tau player need to declare which of the 4 are overwatching before rolling the first set of dice?

I.e. if he says that the charged unit and 2 other units are overwatching, and then rolls badly, can he decide to overwatch with the other 2, or is he barred from doing so?

I don't know if he needs to but the tau player I played yesterday declared all for the greater good shooting before he rolled. That rule combined with the tau sept was brutal against my deathwatch.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding Tau overwatch, do they have to declare exactly which units will be overwatching, before rolling any dice?

If so, and if the Ork player can convince the Tau player to actually obey the rules, this could be very helpful here.

It functions like normal overwatch basically. If they're within 6" of another unit being charged, the outside unit can declare overwatch at that time as if they were being targeted, but they can't overwatch again that turn.

Yes, but not what I wanted to know. Say there are 4 units in range, in addition to the charged unit. Does the Tau player need to declare which of the 4 are overwatching before rolling the first set of dice?

I.e. if he says that the charged unit and 2 other units are overwatching, and then rolls badly, can he decide to overwatch with the other 2, or is he barred from doing so?

The exact wording of the Greater Good rule is:

When an enemy unit declares a charge, a unit with this ability that is within 6" of one of the charging unit’s targets may fire Overwatch as if they were also targeted. A unit that does so cannot fire Overwatch again in this turn.

which isn't clear on this.

Looking in the rulebook at the overwatch rules it says that the unit targeted by a charge can immediately fire overwatch. That is also not very helpful.

I would play it that the overwatch should be declared before any dice are rolled, but I don't see anything in the rules which would require it so other people may play it differently.

So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

I still take PKs, theres not much of a point difference between the two, tho the -1 to hit does hurt.


On a related note: One thing im hoping for in the new codex is for Nobz to be 3-4 wounds. They made terminators 2 wounds, no reason nobz shouldn't get a boost as well.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

I've stopped taking any upgrades on my Boss Nobs. There doesn't seem to be any reason to. the tidal wave of attacks from boys is usually enough. I'll put them in a Nobz Mob where I can have several of them. that's worked well for me. I think 4 is plenty in a single mob but they are usually supported by 3 or 4 other characters with Power Klaws or the like. I had 7 in my Nobz mob but that was really too many for the work they did.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

Basically take BC if you are facing many 1 or 2 wound models or units with good invulnerable saves, as they are more reliable at killing them. If you just want to punch through armor saves or deal damage to vehicles and monsters, take PK. Efficiency-wise the PK is ahead a little, but it also costs more points and sometime fails to kill a primaris due to d3 damage.

If you feel like it doesn't make a difference either way, just take shoota and choppa for +1 attack.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

¨

I take mix of both. Klaw is good yes but -1 to hit and higher price makes it bit edgy. I find often enough big choppa hits hard enough and it has superior D value anyway so at times it's more reliable. And cheaper. And better AP is sometimes negated by inv save anyway so it's only S10 vs S6 which isn't THAT big deal vs T4-5. Indeed klaw does less damage then due to -1 to hit so if inv save makes AP difference meaningless...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

I've stopped taking any upgrades on my Boss Nobs. There doesn't seem to be any reason to. the tidal wave of attacks from boys is usually enough. I'll put them in a Nobz Mob where I can have several of them. that's worked well for me. I think 4 is plenty in a single mob but they are usually supported by 3 or 4 other characters with Power Klaws or the like. I had 7 in my Nobz mob but that was really too many for the work they did.

I have found upgrades be helpful against big monsters where choppa isn't often enough. Especially as I have found those monsters rarely are there alone so I can't even swamp them all anyway. 30 boyz=120 attacks sounds amazing but then I find often I can't get all into combat ANYWAY.

Not sure where to post, but I have an unbuilt GSC Goliath Truck kit. Would this make a decent BattleWagon?

I have a Proper BW and Ork Trukk, and the Wagon isnt much bigger than the Trukk...

So, Goliath, better BW or better trukk?

 warhead01 wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, Im aware things may change in a few weeks pending the Ork codex release, but in general, are Big Choppaz better than Power Klaws on the Nob in mobz of Boyz, or are PK still close to "Auto Include" as they were for most editions?

I've stopped taking any upgrades on my Boss Nobs. There doesn't seem to be any reason to. the tidal wave of attacks from boys is usually enough. I'll put them in a Nobz Mob where I can have several of them. that's worked well for me. I think 4 is plenty in a single mob but they are usually supported by 3 or 4 other characters with Power Klaws or the like. I had 7 in my Nobz mob but that was really too many for the work they did.

Yeah if you play pure greentides and rely on tarpit the opponent stock nobz are probably the best choice. In a single unit I prefer big choppas since in good numbers they're a decent anti tank and quite cheaper than klaws.

I take klaws on nobz leading boyz squad if I have less than 120 boyz/stormboyz tipycally.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Not sure where to post, but I have an unbuilt GSC Goliath Truck kit. Would this make a decent BattleWagon?

I have a Proper BW and Ork Trukk, and the Wagon isnt much bigger than the Trukk...

So, Goliath, better BW or better trukk?

The battlewagon isn't that much longer than the trukk, but it's quite a bit beefier. The GSC Goliath looks to be in-between and could plausibly be either. Personally I'd probably used a more stripped-down looted Goliath as a trukk and one with a bunch of extra stuff welded on as a battlewagon. It's really up to you, though, I think it works either way.

WHERE ARE MY ORK RUMORS??? WAAAAAAAAAAGH!

 Billagio wrote:
WHERE ARE MY ORK RUMORS??? WAAAAAAAAAAGH!

I heard* that the Ork codex isn't coming out until next Spring. It's going to be a starter box with Slaanesh. The new Daemonettes are going to look like bikes and snazzgunz.

Another thing I heard* was that Ghazzy is going to be split in half by both Gork and Mork trying to claim him, and so we're going to get two Ghazzy models, each of which is actually smaller than the current model.

I also heard* that we're going to get a looting kit for kitbashing, but it's only going to be for infantry models.

Lastly I heard* that the Old Ones/Brain Boyz are coming back for Round Two with the Necrons, and they're uniting all of their old creations, so the Orks are going to become a sub-faction of the Aeldari.

*And by "heard" I mean I just started making up terrible things off the top of my head. Except the bike and snazzgunz Daemonettes actually sounds pretty funny and I think I'll make some.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
WHERE ARE MY ORK RUMORS??? WAAAAAAAAAAGH!

I heard* that the Ork codex isn't coming out until next Spring.

This made me sad until I realized that makes no sense

Those rumors will be on BOLS by tomorow night