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ManTube wrote:
Gang, the more games I play, the less I am impressed with kustom force fields and pain boys. I take the kff mek in my walker lists because its important to have an invul save to soak high damage anti tank weapons, but on normal boyz I rarely feel happy I took them. Its very annoying to keep mobs inside the bubble, especially on boards with lots of terrain (best way to play imo). As my boys run up and get different run distances its difficult to keep the bubble together and pretty soon it breaks up as the boyz charge ahead or disperse to grab objectives. Pain boys are the same issues but magnified due to worse reach and worse durability increase. A kff mek needs to save 13 boyz to make up its points, but I don't think I've ever really had on do that, and honestly I'd rather just bring 13 more boys who actually add offensive output while not giving me the headache of trying to play around the Damn bubble. The same goes for the painboy, is rather have 8 or 9 more boys. Dont even get me started on banner nobs. Waste of time, way too expensive, ill take a weirdboy with warpath over this git every time.

Is anyone else feeling this way or should I just hang my head and go sit with the mad boyz?

Banner nobz work better for units with lots of powerklaws or killsaws to bring that 4+ back to a 3+, but I absolutely agree that he's overpriced for what he does.

I feel that out of this 3 support characters, only a painboy is worth it in a tide. He gives this bit of durability to boyz and patches up wierdboyz. Besides, he's not bad with 4-5 killsaw attacks. 5 with Ghaz around.
Kff big meks are hard to evaluate. They might be ok in a walker wall or mech lists but those lists are currently so mediocre at best, whatever good mek does, goes to waste.
Banner nobz have only ever been semi-okish in walker wall lists supporting kanz. Naughts...i haven't had a naught reach combat neither in 7th nor 8th edition yet...but if you'll get to play vs a mellee opponent or someone who delibirately ignores a naught, banner nob might be ok to support one. Maybe a banner nob could be useful in a tide to add this bit of a punch vs tougher targets like knights. But practice shows an extra wierdboy is just better in a broader variety of situations.

Depends on situation.
Had a recent game against Knights, and the KFF Meks were absolute gold
A Painboy would have been useless there, as pretty much all weapons had Damage of 2 or more.

Gitdakka wrote:
Also against knights: meganobz with killsaws. 4 attacks each with s10 and -4ap does 0-8dmg per dude. Just take some trukks to get them there. I mix 5 tankbustas+squig with 3 meganobz in a trukk for vehicle murderfest (unless it gets surrounded, then gg)

Meganobz with Killsaws REQUIRE a Trukk or more likely a Wagon to survive past turn 1. 3 Meganobz with Killsawz and a trukk cost 226pts or there about. That gives you 12 attacks hitting on 4s so 6 hits. Wounding on 3s = 4 Wounds and assuming ZERO invuln save against close combat attacks that is 8 damage on average. So for 226pts you haven't even degraded the knight, it would take on average 3 of these to kill the cheapest knight (Gallant) So you need 678pts of Meganobz and trukkz to kill 1 knight, not bad.....except that will never happen because knights can liquidate a trukk every turn. And if they bring the new cheese knights with a 4+ invuln its DOUBLE that, so it takes 1350pts to one shot a knight....not exactly effective, and god help you if they get 1 turn of shooting off, basically its GG.

Also, against knights any trukk or wagon will simply be deleted in a single turn, and sawnobz at 48 points per model is a juicy target as well. The proper way to play knights is to never attack them, swamp the board with cheap bodies, win on objectives. It is boring, tedious, yet somewhat effective.

Well, a combination of a horde of boyz, multiple wierdboyz, kmk and Ghaz can more or less reliably down knights. Though, you should still focus on board controle. Knights are quite choppy and you'll be giving them free kills if you launch a bunch of unprepared charges. And they're much faster than you.

I just wanted to provide some quick info on knights. It is not points efficient to shoot at them with Burnaz or Kommandos, so if you are facing a Knight list maybe avoid those. Also, Kanz and Deff Dreadz are too slow to ever actually get into combat with them, so avoid using those as well. As far as HQ choices go the Big Mek with Shokk Attak Gun seems like a smart choice with it's great AP modifier and Mortal Wounds but it turns out it isn't good enough for the points. Also, no matter how cheap they make the KMB it seems like it'll never be good enough to equip and use against a Knight army.

If you absolutely have to bring three or more fliers I recommend you only bring the Dakkajet the others are pretty meh.

For the most part things in the ork codex that are meant for shooting models with no armor are bad at Knight armies and anything in the codex meant for anti tank are points inefficient at shooting and assaulting Knights so just don't bring anything and hope they forget to use some of their models before you get wiped on turn 6 or 7 anyways.

 Rismonite wrote:
so just don't bring anything

Oi, dat's good finkin'! - dey'z can't shoot wot's not dere!!

Hrm... Perhaps sikolojikal combat would work? Take a Naught or a couple CC Dreads, and challenge your opponent's Knight to a CC duel, callin' 'im a weedy git if he shoots at your models before they get into combat?

Anyone know if the Burnas in KillTeam got changed to D6?

Anvildude wrote:
Hrm... Perhaps sikolojikal combat would work? Take a Naught or a couple CC Dreads, and challenge your opponent's Knight to a CC duel, callin' 'im a weedy git if he shoots at your models before they get into combat?

There's only one guy who plays a knight at the place I play 40k and my dream is to charge his knight with one of my nauts and say "I'm wounding your knight on 2's."

Anvildude wrote:
Hrm... Perhaps sikolojikal combat would work? Take a Naught or a couple CC Dreads, and challenge your opponent's Knight to a CC duel, callin' 'im a weedy git if he shoots at your models before they get into combat?

If you are looking for friendly game, just ask them to not bring a knight or use one of the less powerful variants like the galant or the paladin and maybe have them field their knights as freeblades for a more fun game. You will still have hard time handling them, but the game will be more fun.

A knight army that wants to win... well, neither the naut nor cc dreads will get back up after a knight as hit them with a reaper chainsword or a thunderstrike gauntlet. And since the knights are a lot faster than our walkers, they will probably be striking first.

You would probably need 7 deff dreads to kill one small knight, since he kills two or three before they get to strike and then you need about 4 to down a small knights. Assuming no relics or warlord traits are involved. Or any shooting at all.

As for the MANz comment... MANz cannot charge turn 1 unless you gamble on a getting both first turn, da jump, succeeding the charge and dodging the hellish overwatch. So assuming you somehow got 10 MANz with killsaws to swing at a knight, you will probably kill it.
If you do not get first turn or fail da jump or fail the charge or enough of your manz get killed by overwatch or the enemy uses a defensive stratagem or your dice luck is slightly below average... you can simply collect your models and go home, because you are getting tabled.

While I always appreciate looking for new angles, one simply has to accept that the index has not provided orks with an efficient way of killing T8/3+ models. Currently the only option is to sit through the firestorm and hope your opponent puts himself in a bad position, so you can take a knight from him by piling boyz and characters onto it.

Galant and paladin are probably the most powerful ones for points though.

As a melee-only option the galant is pretty tame against orks unless stacked with the right relics, house and stratagems. Being able to charge across half the battlefield and hit something six times with a D8 relic is powerful, but what is he going to target in an ork army? Worst case he stomps half a unit of boyz per turn.

I really don't see what's supposed to be powerful about a paladin. The twin battlecannon is really nothing to write home about, other armies can do much more for those points.
Heck knights can do better for those points. The avenger gatling cannon with integrated flamer costs less than the rapid fire battlecannon.

The most common knights army people are going to face outside of tournaments is probably:
1 Gallant and 1 Crusader (content of the renegade box)
2 Armingers (from forgebane or cheap as chips on ebay)
1 Other knight, one of the big ones or one the player already had from 7th
1 more arminger or helverines or AdMech chaff (from forgebane) or Imperial CP farm

So, if you are playing at stores/clubs or you have a group that's not highly competitive, I'd plan on facing that. If you are trying to win tournaments... wait for the codex.

Wait, paladin is gatling + melta cannon...or is it crusader? Man, they all sound uninspiringly identical.

The shooty small knight is the cursader. The paladin is two LRBT welded to a huge chainsword.

Damn. Now I want to build a gorkanaut like that.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Anyone know if the Burnas in KillTeam got changed to D6?

Still D3. In fact, IIRC, it looked like all profiles in killteam were the same as index orks.

Guys I got some more sweet intel on Knights today;

-It seems a squad of six Smasha gunz for only about 246 points can do up to 36 damage to a Knight.
-15 Tankbustas cost roughly 255 points and are can do 45 damage to a Knight.
-2 Big Mekz with Shokk Attack Gunz can do 36 damage for only 160 points at 60 inches!!

You have to buy a trukk for the tankbustas which means the Big Mek with SAG is the clear winner here followed by Smasha gunz.

(Estimated actual damage with Smasha Gunz is approximately 1.47 damage YMMV)

Edit, 10 Nobz with Kombi Skorcha can do 60 damage to a Knight.

I love doing this terrible brand of math for orkz, can we give a name and make it a thing? A calculation for highest damage pssible no matter how unlikely.

Editedit

Guyz.. guyz.. a single Bubblechukka does 36 damage. Six Bubblechukkas for about 342 points does 216 Damage. Why is this not meta? It is soo much more DAKKA!

 Rismonite wrote:
Guys I got some more sweet intel on Knights today;

-It seems a squad of six Smasha gunz for only about 246 points can do up to 36 damage to a Knight.
-15 Tankbustas cost roughly 255 points and are can do 45 damage to a Knight.
-2 Big Mekz with Shokk Attack Gunz can do 36 damage for only 160 points at 60 inches!!

You have to buy a trukk for the tankbustas which means the Big Mek with SAG is the clear winner here followed by Smasha gunz.

(Estimated actual damage with Smasha Gunz is approximately 1.47 damage YMMV)

Edit, 10 Nobz with Kombi Skorcha can do 60 damage to a Knight.

I love doing this terrible brand of math for orkz, can we give a name and make it a thing? A calculation for highest damage pssible no matter how unlikely.

Editedit

Guyz.. guyz.. a single Bubblechukka does 36 damage. Six Bubblechukkas for about 342 points does 216 Damage. Why is this not meta? It is soo much more DAKKA!

Bubblechukkas seem great until your opponent chooses 2 strength or 1 attack. IF you roll 3 good numbers, you can put the low one on AP and have a go. You might get a few damage points in but nothing to write home about.

Being cheap, you can spam them...but I feel bad about spamming mine because they are scratch built. Better than cardboard boxes, but still not nearly as good as a real model.

 JimOnMars wrote:
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Being cheap, you can spam them...but I feel bad about spamming mine because they are scratch built. Better than cardboard boxes, but still not nearly as good as a real model.

Not a "real" model because the scratch-build isn't that good, or not a "real" model because it's not GW? I haven't built any bubble chukkas yet (haven't finished anything but a single lobba, actually) but I'm hoping my scratch-built big/mek gunz will be spam-worthy! (well, as 'spammy' as the rule of 3 will allow, at least)

-Coh

P.S. I was just re-looking at the datasheets and am wondering, can I mix gun types within a unit of Mek or Big Gunz? (i.e. a mixture of kannon/lobba/zzapp or a mixture of kmk/chukka/smasha/traktor... obviously not mixing big and mek gunz within the same unit)

Not "real" because they are not that good.

You can mix and match mek guns in one unit, and big gunz in a different unit.

 Jidmah wrote:
The shooty small knight is the cursader. The paladin is two LRBT welded to a huge chainsword.

Damn. Now I want to build a gorkanaut like that.

DO EEET.

Good bye flakk gun and meka dread shunta arm
Fw last chance to buy

So, I know it's a little premature, but can we talk killteam tactics here? There's been enough leaked that I'm putting together some initial rough lists to try. Here are my thoughts:

Headlines: Shooty orks, grot leaders, kommandos.

I think shooty orks are going to be good. With 6+ always hitting, multishot weapons, and decent melee combat stats even when we don't spec for it, I think a few lootas and big shootas in the back are going to do absolute work. Particularly when they get some buffs from specialists....

I think gretchin as squad leader to hand out aura buffs to a ranged backline is a really solid plan. They are cheap as chips, small enough to hide behind terrain easily, and at higher experience levels can give powerful aura and allied unit bonuses.

Aaaaand Kommandos. With bonuses in cover, I think kommandos will be deceptively sticky on the field and very threatening once they reach melee. This means they'll be a really great front line while a loota or two at the back gets free reign.

So, my list is looking something like....
Leader: Grot
Heavy Specialist: Loota
Comms Specialist: Spanner w/big shoota
Combat Specialist: Kommando Nob
Demolitions Specialist: Boss nob w/kombi skorcha

Fire Team 1:
Shoota Boyz x4

Fire Team 2:
Grots x3

Fire Team 3:
Kommandos x2

Spanner, loota, and grots in the back, hopefully with decent sightlines, laying down fire/soaking up return fire. Shootas/nob to claim the midfield. Kommandos getting stuck in.

Hope to play a few games this weekend, see how it actually plays. Anyone else doing some early theorycrafting? Any thoughts?

I am currently painting up my SWAT/ Solid Snake themed Ork Kommandos in a shadowy blue Grey color scheme.

First list this Sunday will introduce my team, 8 Kommandos, Kommando Nob, Burna Boy and 4 Gretchen. I already have an Ork Kommisar on the Roster, and I just need to think of a theme for basic Ork Boy (reserves). I'm thinking killer clown or ninja mimes.

Survivability seems like it might be a thing for Orks in Killteam. It seems like we have nothing with a save better than 6+. Anything with AP is going to shred us. I'm hoping that the flesh wound thing pans out, but anything with flesh wounds has to make nerve tests. We might be left with a bunch of boys doing nothing but cowering in hiding.

On the plus side, combi Scorchas are super cheap. BBQ anyone?

Ork defence is T4 and -stuff to hit. But yeah orks seem weird in Kill Team. 5 dudes die(aka 2 shooting phases) and flesh wounds become stunlocks unless you roll a 1.

Well, I played 2 quick games yesterday with 3 other players. Thousand Sons, Tyranid lictors, Deathwatch, and T'au.

Managed to get into CC turn 2 and wreck face. Took out all the Deathwatch and even 2 Lictors. Morale is a bit punishing, but basically having universal Mob Rule means we still have to travel in a group for the LD modifiers.

Had an absolute blast playing, and every time I use my Ork army, my voice gets hoarse from all the shouting and WAAAAGHing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A related question: do we know what special tactics come in the krogskull Burna Boyz box set?

Heard the burna boyz killteam box comes with 32mm bases. Whos ready to rebase all their orks when our codex drops T-T

 Hades wrote:
Heard the burna boyz killteam box comes with 32mm bases. Whos ready to rebase all their orks when our codex drops T-T

Show me one codex that has a base size rules section?