Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Jidmah**

SemperMortis wrote:
Blood Axes (My favorite Klan) is actually pretty good. Units can fall back, shoot and assault all in the same turn....this part is kind of crap, because realistically, what CC units do we have that don't have pistols? However the second part....Units ALWAYS count as being in cover. So now my Kommandos are walking around with a 4+ save, almost justifying their 9pt cost.

Well, cc units without pistols? Nobz, MANz, shoota boyz, burnas, deffrolla battlewagons, nauts, kanz... plenty, actually. Also don't underestimate the advantage of been able to fall back and shoot for units like lootas, flash gits or warbikers, in case they get bogged down by something.
Considering that the Jormungandr works for monstrous creature, it's not unlikely that this might give cover to everything, bumping vehicles and bikes to 3+ and walkers to 2+ armor vs shooting.
Since all my orks are bloodaxe I really hope for synergy between the trait and battlewagons.

Evil Sunz: Completely lacking in any kind of originality +1 to movement, advance and charges. Also units ignore -1 to hit when using assault weapons after advancing, All I can think of is the Shoota boyz and Bikers, but again, our shooting is already crap so unless that gets a buff in general I don't see that being all that useful.

If rokkits would be priced for boyz instead of space marines, this could be very useful to fire rokkits from your boyz mobs while advancing. If the new buggy turret weapons are assault weapons (heavy would suck for many reasons), they would also benefit from this a lot, as would koptas.
Outside of that it just a nice add-on to "Boyz can charge 8"+3d6 as long as you have warboss near" (take that, super-sonic genestealers!). +1 to charge also massively increases the chance of deep striking units getting into assault. IMO this is hands down the best one.

Snakebites: These are probably going to be the new cool Klan for players. They get a built in 6+ FNP, whether it stacks with the Dokz buff we don't know yet but if it does, that answers the question of durability. If you can use all those saves combined you get a 6+ Armor save, a 6+ fnp and a 6+ Snakebite save (A Snave )

Since the last FAQ, FNP never stacks. So it's just "everyone is a pain boy!". If doc tools doesn't explicitly increase this to 5+ or something, I don't think this will be very good.

Finally....Freebooters: Units gain +1 to hit after you destroy an enemy unit....not bad but honestly, how often is our shooting killing an enemy unit?

You don't need to 100 to 0 a unit to trigger this. Hitting some character with a rokkit, finishing off a unit that has fallen back from combat etc can all trigger this. Most armies also bring chaff units that could die to sluggas shooting at them, like cultists. Even under the current rules, dakka jets and burna bommers can score first blood more often than not.
In the right army, I'd guess that this will basically giving you +1 BS every turn from turn 2 forward - assuming freebootas are not limited to just Badrukk and Flash Gits.

**tneva82**

Weazel wrote:
Well I love Goffs and have painted my Orks as such, but we are not strict with Klan colors in our group. My mate runs Alaitoc traits with a Biel-Tan painted army so...

But might be fun to paint a few red guys and/or vehicles just to have them join my black & white Waaaagh

Well I have models in 4 klan colours so it makes "count-as" system bit less convenient. Grumble grumble. Started this army years ago in 2nd ed style of different klans working together.

**geargutz**

yeah, i too doubt this rumor is true, but my favorite of these rumored clans is by far the blood axes.

i would love to run dreadmobs, and the bloodaxe one works best with that. always acting in cover makes all ork walkers 2+saves and thus more survaivable when they get hit by those nasty common -1 rending weapons. also the ability to pull out of combat and then release a hail of effective dakka form killkans and then charge back in to finish what just didn't get exploded works the best for me.

infact i think the bloodaxe trait works for all vehicles/elites ork units. most units like nobz/meganobz/trucks/buggies/bikes and wagons have armor saves that can get decent with just a cover bonus and also usually can bring ranged wpns in all varieties. that ability to pop out of combat and shoot then charge back in would be the best way to run anything that isnt boyz or has a 6+ save (unfortunately komandoes would hardly benefit with this trait).

so like i said, i doubt their true, but if the bloodaxe one was in the codex in some way i would use that trait all the time.

**tilds**

Being able to fall back and charge again would also work well with Ghazghkull's +1 attack on charge aura if that stays the same in the codex.

**tneva82**

And getting rid of that pesky vehicle that locked you into combat that your S4 AP0 D1 attacks struggle to deal with.

**Jidmah**

tilds wrote:
Being able to fall back and charge again would also work well with Ghazghkull's +1 attack on charge aura if that stays the same in the codex.

Thrakka will probably be locked in to Goff though.

**tneva82**

Jidmah wrote:
tilds wrote:
Being able to fall back and charge again would also work well with Ghazghkull's +1 attack on charge aura if that stays the same in the codex.

Thrakka will probably be locked in to Goff though.

Could be. Then again Ghazz is famous for having united klans for one big waagh. If somebody can affect multiple klans it's Ghaz.

**Jidmah**

Yeah, I can see him getting an exception like Cypher or Fabius Bile. Or he might break detachments he is in like Gulliman or Celestine. We have precedents for both.

**Nuck Fewton**

if these are true (big if) I wonder if my deathskull lootas will be able to reroll their number of shots?

**mhalko1**

SemperMortis wrote:
I don't know about everyone else but for me the problem isn't attacks IN CC, the problem is getting enough models INTO CC. So with that in mind the

Goffs trait of 1 Extra attack for every hit roll of 6 is kind of crap honestly (This btw is from BOLs)

Bad moons with rerolling 1s....utter crap, so 36 loota shots go from 12 hits to an amazing.....14.

Blood Axes (My favorite Klan) is actually pretty good. Units can fall back, shoot and assault all in the same turn....this part is kind of crap, because realistically, what CC units do we have that don't have pistols? However the second part....Units ALWAYS count as being in cover. So now my Kommandos are walking around with a 4+ save, almost justifying their 9pt cost.

DeffSkulls: All Units have a 6+ invuln. meh, units also get 1 free reroll a phase for shooting/fighting. Not bad but honestly not that amazing.

Evil Sunz: Completely lacking in any kind of originality +1 to movement, advance and charges. Also units ignore -1 to hit when using assault weapons after advancing, All I can think of is the Shoota boyz and Bikers, but again, our shooting is already crap so unless that gets a buff in general I don't see that being all that useful.

Snakebites: These are probably going to be the new cool Klan for players. They get a built in 6+ FNP, whether it stacks with the Dokz buff we don't know yet but if it does, that answers the question of durability. If you can use all those saves combined you get a 6+ Armor save, a 6+ fnp and a 6+ Snakebite save (A Snave )

Finally....Freebooters: Units gain +1 to hit after you destroy an enemy unit....not bad but honestly, how often is our shooting killing an enemy unit? I honestly see a lot of ork players suddenly becoming Snake Bite fans or My personal favorites Blood Axes. the others are kind of lackluster except maybe the Evil sunz if our Warbikes/koptas/buggies get a big boost in durability/damage output I can see them being a real threat with that +3inch movement.

Honestly, we don't know how the freebooter one is going to work yet. So far all it says is +1 to hit after you destroy a unit. It doesn't say +1 to hit in the shooting phase, just +1 to hit. It also says when you destroy a unit, not destroy a unit in the shooting phase. with this info if You get into CC early and wipe a unit. Now your whole army is +1 to hit, both CC and shooting.

**Kap'n Krump**

Guys, I would put absolutely ZERO faith in the 'leaked' ork clan rumors. Like, it's not worth even discussing how they would work, because I'm about 99% certain its fake.

**mhalko1**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
Guys, I would put absolutely ZERO faith in the 'leaked' ork clan rumors. Like, it's not worth even discussing how they would work, because I'm about 99% certain its fake.

This is also very possible.

**crzylgs**

mhalko1 wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
Guys, I would put absolutely ZERO faith in the 'leaked' ork clan rumors. Like, it's not worth even discussing how they would work, because I'm about 99% certain its fake.

This is also very possible.

Because they are categorically not a leak. They stem from an anonymous, unverified message that a YouTuber may or may not have received in order to put out some content and get some views.

**An Actual Englishman**

crzylgs wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
Guys, I would put absolutely ZERO faith in the 'leaked' ork clan rumors. Like, it's not worth even discussing how they would work, because I'm about 99% certain its fake.

This is also very possible.

Because they are categorically not a leak. They stem from an anonymous, unverified message that a YouTuber may or may not have received in order to put out some content and get some views.

Absolutely. I like Valrak, he brings a great energy to 40k, as does Kirioth but the two of them love some clickbait views. I don't think there's anything in these Clan trait rumours.

**SemperMortis**

Very true about the "Leak" but at the same time at least we get to talk about ork stuff beyond "stop taking those just bring more boyz".

Also, on the off chance these traits are true, Kommandos get +1 to cover so if they always count as in cover they have a 4+ save not a 5+ save. So imagine being able to turn 2 deep strike 45 boyz (because atm they are just slightly worse boyz) with a 4+ save into the enemy lines. 405pts for 45 boyz that will actually take a bit of shooting to remove

team that up with 30 Jumping boyz and suddenly you have turned the enemies flank with 75 boyz for the price of 585pts + Weirdboy. 45 with a 4+ save and 30 with a 5+ save

**Shrapnelbait**

Fall back, shoot and charge would be great for Kans and Dreads that are armed with scorchas.

I can't see vehicle units always having cover though, that seems kinda odd?

**PiñaColada**

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Fall back, shoot and charge would be great for Kans and Dreads that are armed with scorchas.

I can't see vehicle units always having cover though, that seems kinda odd?

Admech gets that with Shroudpsalm. Although that isn't a trait as such, rather something you roll for. But if Cawl's on the board it's almost guaranteed to be in effect every turn.

I don't think the traits "leaked" are real, but merely someones speculation. Still though, it wouldn't surprise me if some of these traits end up being in the codex. There are just so many combinations you can do as clan traits and some of these seem like pretty boring, but safe options. Obviously I'd hate it if my Evil Sunz trait ends up being the logical choice for footsloggers and barely useful for vehicles.

By the way, is there anything announced for 40k between now and Orktober?

**geargutz**

ok, ill be going to an itc tournament late September. its more of a mix tourney with 1/3 pts for modeling and painting, 1/3 for sportsmanship, and 1/3 for the actual tournament itself.

this is what im bringing
x3 bike meks with kff
bikeboss with killchoppah
x9 warbikers (3 sperate squads with pk and bigchoppahs)
x6 warbuggies (2 squads with one with rokets and one with bigshootas)
x15 skorcha wartracks (3 seperate squads)
bigtrak with supa skorcha
(everything divides into 3 different pincer attacks with a kff each)

the list im bringing i know isn't very competitive (im hoping to do well in sportsmanship and the painting) but i wanted to get your guyz opinion on how well this will do with current meta (despite it being only 1/3rd of the score there are some dbags that still come to win for itc points) and if you guys got pointers on how to play my list (unfortunately i don't get many chances to play these days so i don't get much practice with my list).

at this point im set in my list, i cant change anything. just wanted to get your guys opinions.

its going to a themed mad max like speed freeks list (unfortunately the models and codex arnt coming till after the tourney...bummer)

**ManTube**

I would deploy everything you are allowed to in reserve and do your best to hide the rest. You won't be very durable, but you have good speed, so being in reserve or hidden in weird spots won't hold you back and protect you from early rounds of shooting.

**PiñaColada**

Wait, fifteen skorchas? Are you sure you don't mean burnas?

**geargutz**

PiñaColada wrote:
Wait, fifteen skorchas? Are you sure you don't mean burnas?

i know its confusing, but its the wartrack with skorcha upgrade, but in the index that's what the unit is confusingly bloody called. so that's what i meant. ill fix it.

**PiñaColada**

geargutz wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Wait, fifteen skorchas? Are you sure you don't mean burnas?

i know its confusing, but its the wartrack with skorcha upgrade, but in the index that's what the unit is confusingly bloody called. so that's what i meant. ill fix it.

No, I understood what you meant. They're just called skorchas. I guess I was just taken aback by the sheer amount of them you'll be fielding.. That's gotta be dang near half your army, right?

Big fan of the idea though

**Jidmah**

geargutz wrote:
ok, ill be going to an itc tournament late September. its more of a mix tourney with 1/3 pts for modeling and painting, 1/3 for sportsmanship, and 1/3 for the actual tournament itself.

this is what im bringing
x3 bike meks with kff
bikeboss with killchoppah
x9 warbikers (3 sperate squads with pk and bigchoppahs)
x6 warbuggies (2 squads with one with rokets and one with bigshootas)
x15 skorchas (3 seperate squads)
bigtrak with supa skorcha
(everything divides into 3 different pincer attacks with a kff each)

the list im bringing i know isn't very competitive (im hoping to do well in sportsmanship and the painting) but i wanted to get your guyz opinion on how well this will do with current meta (despite it being only 1/3rd of the score there are some dbags that still come to win for itc points) and if you guys got pointers on how to play my list (unfortunately i don't get many chances to play these days so i don't get much practice with my list).

at this point im set in my list, i cant change anything. just wanted to get your guys opinions.

its going to a themed mad max like speed freeks list (unfortunately the models and codex arnt coming till after the tourney...bummer)

You are probably setting yourself up for some tablings, since you have so few wounds on the table, but I guess you already knew that. Try to stay out of sight as much as possible. I would at least toss in a unit of gretchin or three to sit on objectives and gain some more CP. Even orks have a use for re-rolls.

Note you also have no way of dealing with a knight or even multiples, so maybe you should consider putting some tankbustaz into your big trakk or adding some KMK/kannons. You can also try to block their movement by standing just outside of 1" from them, they cannot move over your buggies or bikes. Keep in mind that character knights can do heroic interventions though.

For your skorchas, keep in mind that their deployment option is a trap. A skorcha can just advance into your enemy's lines and flame away, while a skorcha coming in from a flank can't shoot before turn 3.

**geargutz**

PiñaColada wrote:

No, I understood what you meant. They're just called skorchas. I guess I was just taken aback by the sheer amount of them you'll be fielding.. That's gotta be dang near half your army, right?

Big fan of the idea though

**A Town Called Malus**

geargutz wrote:
yeah, i wanted to have a themed ork mad max like list.

Make sure you've got this blaring out whilst you play!

**Nuck Fewton**

I love your list and you sound like my kind of player. That said, the army will struggle. you have next to no close combat punch and your army is geared to shoot a horde so vehicles are going to give you fits.

That said, you're super fast. Play smart and go for objectives. Take pics!

**tneva82**

I'll be taking unusual list for pounding tomorrow. Will be likely lousy but don't feel like playing horde tomorrow with 3 games as super horde looming on sunday.

Bat 1:

Warboss w/relic big choppa, 6+++
weirdboy w/da jump
2x30 boyz with big choppa, pk, 19 shootas in one, 29 in other
2x30 grots
10xgrots
runtherd
3xKMK
dakkajet 6xsupa shoota

Bat 2:

bik mek w/kff
weirdboy w/da jump
2x10 grot
2x11 grot
battlewagon
7 flashgit
13 loota
burna bomber w/skorcha missiles

So weird ork gunline. Grot walls will be used to delay enemy. Boyz will be more of last line, possibly hiding behind LOS if available in which case one weirdboy baby sits them while other throws grots toward enemy. Flashgits and lootas go to battlewagon with KFF nearby, if terrain/deployment allows KMK's will be around there too to get 5++ at least for turn 1.

Basically try to play for objectives while use grots to keep enemy far from my me.

I'll be screwed royally against gunline though

Trying to outgunline gunline with orks would be bad ;-)

**Nuck Fewton**

why not take warpath on one of the weirdboys? if you're not 'da jumping them, use the +1 attack on em.

**tneva82**

I have never ever actually benefitted from the warpath. That's why. Combining with da jump isn't good as it's still 50-50 it works. And every time I have made charge with warpath in I haven't NEEDED the spell. I have steam rolled target anyway. It's so rarely you a) NEED that spell b) make the charge. Da jump+warpath is too unreliable.

Also combining the two means you use both weirdboys at once and with tons of green models around that means high modifiers which means high chance of perils which means next time you have high chance of dying from peril which means failed spell. I treat weirdboys as "one shot" weapons. Reliably get off spell once, after that don't count on getting spells off. So I would basically burn out my spells in one turn.

I find ability to reliably da jump 2 units more useful than the warpath that...Well so far has done no useful thing whatsoever. Either I fail to get the charge or I wipe out target anyway without needing the spell.

Also gives flexibility on what unit I da jump. 1 weirdboy struggles to cover entire army as potential da jump target.

That's the generic reason why I prefer 2xda jump over da jump+warpath. In this particular list...Well you might notice I don't even plan to get into combat all that much. Boyz will be held backfield until turn 3-4 likely. They will definitely NOT be used to warpath+da jump and try on turn 1 or 2 as that means giving up half my boyz(any da jumped squad tends to die right away so if they don't make charge they die without doing anything but shooting. Which btw means I da jump shoota units rather than choppa units) for 50-50 charge. Too expensive.

**koooaei**

So, have you guyz seen the new strategem rumors?