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2018/09/02 08:38:53
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I think the issue is more with gretchin than it is with boyz, you might want to put them with badmoons KMK in one game and with deffskull gorkaunauts in another.
Another reason might be wanting to run both Thrakka and Grotznik, for example.
Otherwise I agree, it might be a theoretical problem though, since most HQs need to match the clan they want to buff anyways.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/09/02 10:44:33
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
if i understand correctly having multiple factions in a list mainly allows for each of those factions to use their stratagems..but not their actual faction trait?
so you bring a detachment of snakbites so you can use snakebite stratagems but bring goffs in your "main" detachment and that is the clan trait you use?
i only play orks so im so far unfamiliar with how this all works (never really studied the pertinent rules because they didn't apply to our index army).
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2018/09/02 12:23:43
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
2018/09/02 12:47:51
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
geargutz wrote: if i understand correctly having multiple factions in a list mainly allows for each of those factions to use their stratagems..but not their actual faction trait?
so you bring a detachment of snakbites so you can use snakebite stratagems but bring goffs in your "main" detachment and that is the clan trait you use?
i only play orks so im so far unfamiliar with how this all works (never really studied the pertinent rules because they didn't apply to our index army).
Assuming orks will play like all other factions (there is no reason not to):
- One pure ORK detachment will unlock all stratagems. Klan specific stratagems are only limited to what they can target, but have no requirement of such detachment. For example, if you have a supreme command detachment with Thrakka(Goff), Grotznik(Deffskulls) and Badrukk(Freeboota), it would unlock all stratagems, you just could not use the Goff stratagem on Badrukk, but you could use the Freeboota stratagem on him.
- Said ORK detachment would also unlock battle-forged bonus, so troops get objective secured and maybe DakkaDakkaDakka (just guessing on this one).
- If all units in one detachment share the same <KLAN> keyword, they will gain the klan trait. Certain models may or may not be exempt for this (like Fallen for CSM or commissars for AM)
- If your Warlord is an ORK, you will be allowed to pick a free relic
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/09/02 19:45:10
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
geargutz wrote: if i understand correctly having multiple factions in a list mainly allows for each of those factions to use their stratagems..but not their actual faction trait?
so you bring a detachment of snakbites so you can use snakebite stratagems but bring goffs in your "main" detachment and that is the clan trait you use?
i only play orks so im so far unfamiliar with how this all works (never really studied the pertinent rules because they didn't apply to our index army).
If you have IG detachment(definition which is found in codex but unsurprisingly has units with Astra Militarum keyword for all) then you get IG strategems. Then if you have cadian unit you can use cadian strategem for them. You don't even need cadian detachment for that. Which is why you sometimes see IG detachments with mix of say valhallan, mordian etc. They won't have regimental trait since they mix regiments but they get relics and regiment specific strategems.
How orks know is not sure because in theory they could change it but presumably work similar way so you have ork detachment(ie play orks as so far orks can't ally with anything) you get ALL strategems but clan specific ones you can't use without having that clan members somewhere. And then they only work for those.
==========
Anyway tournament report! Orks went to casual tournament here. Probably last tournament/whatever for me with index due to closeness of codex. Maybe not even event near me I could attend. I took green tide to max. 1.5k.
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Power klaw, 29x Ork Boy w/slugga&Choppa 193 pts
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Big choppa, 19x Ork Boy w/slugga&Choppa, 10xOrk Boy w/shoota 187 pts
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Big choppa, 10x Ork Boy w/slugga&Choppa, 19xOrk Boy w/shoota 187 pts
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Power klaw, 29xOrk Boy w/shoota 193 pts
Ork Battallion(+5CP)
HQ: Bik Mek: Choppa, Kustom Force Field 75 pts
HQ: Weirdboy: Da Jump 62 pts
Elite: Mek Kun: Kustom Mega Kannon 42 pts
Elite: Mek Kun: Kustom Mega Kannon 42 pts
Elite: Mek Kun: Kustom Mega Kannon 42 pts
Total: 1500 pts
I'm actually cheesy bastard and didn't really tone down my list for casual figuring orks are already casual enough Thank god for movement trays which were bloody useful timing wise(3h hours).
Game 1. - Iron warrior gunline.
Spoiler:
He had 2 slaanesh predators, to hit buffer and sorcerer, scorpion FW artirelly tank from hell that was shooting total of 6d3 S6 -2 D2 shots hitting on 2+ if he got presience off(most of the time) rerolling 1's due to HQ. 6 terminators with termi HQ. Couple tac squads, 4 havocs. 10 cultists. That's...Lots of shooting! Escalating maelstrom card plus some eternal war mission I forgot.
I had to deploy on tough quarter for me with big building causing bit of a...roadblock to say the least. However I did get turn 1. So bad moons with max shootas were da jumped forward and everybody else basically rushed to objectives. I had 5 in control pretty much right off the bat or close next turn if need be. Shooting. Shootas blew out marine squadron. Haha! He btw was OK with me using dice app. And poor fellow had most amazing streak of 1's and 2's on save which vaporized his squad. First blood for orks. This left KMK's out of original target(I had wanted to aim for first blood rather than try 9" charge) so fired at predator but pretty inefficient.
His turn 1. Stayed put, blew out most of bad moons(CP used to keep morale) and all KMK's. I failed all 5++ and he even used strategem to shoot predator again. With tuesday game I have now failed like 24/26 inv saves. Stupid mek. I joked mek better make sure he dies or I'm going to kill him very painfully myself!
Turn 2: Bad moon remnants go in and charge predator. Evil suns(20/10 choppa/shoota) da jumped next to cultists. I basically start securing objectives. Evil sunz shot at chaos marines and charged(and killed) all the cultists.
He brings in all terminators to my left(he considered going for solo strike toward my weirdboys, both with 2 wounds having perilled, but opted not to do near suicide). Predator flees and my bad moons finished off. Evil sunz shot badly. Loooots of grots die to termi bolters and plasmas pester my boyz.
Turn 3. Objective grabbing, putting up grot screen toward terminators and 2 remaining boyz rushing toward there. Evil sunz charge and dent predator. He responds by lumbering forward, vaporizing tons of grots and some boyz. Charges final grot screen which goes "poof" and he tags my deth skulls. Whoops. Bit too close.
Turn 4: I would have liked to bring in my warboss but due to roadblock couldn't. Drat. So I actually FELL BACK and put in more grots hoping to delay(might not work. Damn all that bolters etc). Weirdboy moved in and smited d6 mortals(exact 10) causing 6 wounds to terminator lord. At this point I rushed to check did the 10 grot crew from KMK have weapons. No...Drat. Not even pistol! ARGH! Would have been funny to kill him. Damn +1W warlord trait. Sacrificed one weirdboy by da jumping him to objective next to his army to get VP.
So his turn. Lumbers forward with terminators, vaporizes grot screen and bunch of death skulls, charges in and kills poor blue boyz. Oh and warlord decided to go the hell out of and "advanced" behind corner of building out of LOS. Hahahaha! Run away!
Turn 5: Warboss leads goffs into a charge at the terminators. I shot at them killing 1, charged in. With warboss and goffs killed 2 more leaving 3 left.
He basically killed some stuff and then we rolled did game end. It did. I had like 40 models left(mostly grots) but won 13-8 in vp's. Phew.
Game 2: Shooty blood angels(no that's not a typo) with knight.
Having seen those metal/blue marines with lots of guns in there I figured iron hands or ultramarines. Then I checked list and saw blood angels. Checked no slamquinus. No(Well this WAS casual tournament). Was like woot? Shooty blood angels. Not a sight you see often.
Scenario was very bad for me. Start 1 card, then turn 2 card per objective. Kill points...Ugh.
Turn 1: Knight advanced slightly keeping 1 KMK out of range. Used descend of angels to send jump packers to my rear to shoot weirdboy. Whoops. Forgot that one. Not seeing jump packing character thought I was safe. Forgot those can use it too...Drat. Shooting wasn't too bad as KMK finally started to work but weirdboy did die.
I respond moving forward to get objective 1(which he also had). I maybe screwed up and sent bad moons to deal with that 3 jump packers. KMK's tried at knight but 4++ kept unhurt. Not that he even needed 4++...5++ was enough. Other KMK blew out jump packer. Shootas took down other. Charge from bad moons caused just 1 wound though. Drat. In hindsight as opponent noted should have used KMK's to deal with them rather than worry about knight.
Turn 2: He got bunch of cards related to objective 1 so rushed there with knight. Shooting still fairly light overall but 1 KMK did die. My turn I TOO got like 2 cards for objective 1....Sheesh. It was like 2-3 cards per side dealing with that. Knight charged in killing tons of grots.
My turn. I screwed up HUGE. I fell back with grots from knights. Problem is I only fell back 1"...Meanwhile I got 2 cards related to objective 4 on his backline so another mistake likely and sent evil sunz there. Failed the charge though and they were killed next turn. On h2h phase knight heroic intervened vs grots and stomped them opening up hole to my boyz...Whoops.
Turn 3: Charge into boyz, kill tons. Shoot lots as well. Evil sunz died.
I retreated with survivors from knights, tried shooting, charged with goffs and warboss. Dented finally it(Go warboss!) but still 14 wounds left.
Turn 4: He fell back from combat and prepared to blow my weirdboy(he had witchhunt objective) which he did with ease as well as runtherd. Lots of orks died left and right.
I fell back with warboss and goffs hoping to keep them alive.
Turn 5: He surprised me and didn't go for objective with knight and instead went and charged my warboss after shooting tons of grots. Careless there. I assumed he wanted "control 3 objective" card more than my warlord so had killed goffs that would have prevented. Figured force him to abandon objective if he wants to get goffs would be enough. Whoops.
I was basically just running stuff out of combat and hide.
Turn 6: Kill some more stuff. Game ends.
Before kill points it was like 15-10. With kill points(I had only killed 2 complete units...) it was 0-20 loss for me. Ouch.
All that objective 1 was bad for me maybe. That was worth tons of vp's so wasn't feeling giving it up but that turned into slaughter house...Then deployment mistake, bad moon mistake and mistaken da jump with evil sunz. Also maybe should have used mob up rule with small grot squads...
Game 3. Grey knights. 26 models vs 243! More than 9 to 1!
Spoiler:
So he had 2 special characters, some banner bearer(SC?) who was warlord. 3 basic troop squads, 4 flamer squad(ouch), dreadnought with lascannons and missile, flier of some kind. Very...tame army indeed. Even for casual tournament this was super soft.
For scenario 3 pts per objective in the end, 1 card and then turn 2 1 per objective, no kill points. Perfect for me. Deployment I had again hard time due to huge building. Partially my fault. Went for objectives rather than easy movement. Didn't get turn 1 this time. First rolls were 2-1 so tie due to +1 and then he rolled 6. Ah well.
Turn 1:
Anyway he flew closer and brought 2 characters from DZ to edge of his DZ(guess he deep struck there just in case to avoid sniping). Worst was his flamer squad was bit exposed from one angle...As was one basic squad. Shooting killed like 4 orks as KMK finally started working blocking lascannons(helped by lousy to hit and wound rolls).
I da jumped bad moons again toward basic squad that had rushed to objective 1 he had and I had AGAIN got as well. What's up with objective 1's? Shooting. 2 KMK had LOS to flamer squad and blew them right away taking MW each. Final KMK hadn't had LOS anyway so shot at the basic squad near bad moons. However 6 shots resulted in nothing. No hits, no MW's. Weird shot. Bad moons shot 1 dead but failed the charge.
Turn 2: He brings in 2 more squads from deep strike toward bad moons. His flyer was in bit trouble having to use gate of infinity to get him out of there(otherwise I Could have literally caused him to crash and burn due to no place to move...) so went to his rear. Shooting vaporized 29 bad moons leaving just nob. I used CP to keep him alive.
My turn. I got nice set of objectives so went ahead already. Psychic I sent up evil sunz to his rear but this time it was more sensible I think than last. IF I can charge that's a) prevent defend objective for him b) prevent dread from shooting c) force him to split attention. So shooting I killed all but 1 from basic squad near objective 1 with my bad moon nob next. I opted to not shoot more to ensure I can get charge and get that secure 1. Evil sunz fired at dreadnought and caused whopping 3 wounds. Charge. Evil suns charge succesfully dreadnought. Bad moon nob charges but takes 2 hits from 4 shots in overwatch. 2 wounds. Crap. Luckily I rolled 6 and killed him in h2h. Struct there first to make damned sure intercept doesn't get him. Objective mine. And evil sunz killed dreadnought as well. Good.
Turn 3: He goes for "nothing to do but go for glory" and was about to head for goffs and dethskulls and then...Changes mind and goes toward evil sunz. IMO this was mistake on his part. Flier moves, is teleported back, shoots. Basically he blew tons of evil sunz but here I was cunning and took up entire front of my unit. Albeit this took out most of my choppas AND my nob but this made him harder to charge(6" and 9" and all 3 solo's were over 12"...). Albeit the 2 troop units got in but they didn't do much and I started grinding them down.
My turn. Due to evil sunz situation his characters were open for shooting! KMK's killed his warlord without too much of an effort. Hah! There was also 1 character behind building that hadn't went toward evil sunz. Some sort of SC's. He was there holding objective. I had also the "control center" so if I wanted it I had to kill him. 30 grots teleported next to him as well shooting for wound or two. Goffs advanced and charged him. Basically killed him right away without too much of a trouble. THEN he let out know he now gets to strike ANYWAY. 5 attacks hitting on 2+ wounding on 2+ getting extra attacks on successes and then with strategem FIGHT AGAIN. After dying he in otherwords sliced 12 goffs...Whoops. Well good trade off but that's not what you often see! Oh and evil sunz finished all but 1 grey knight.
Turn 4: His big SC terminator moves in and charges deth skulls. Flier moved next to my warboss(whoops) and killed him with twin short range lascannons. Well this was going so well didn't even feel bad about losing him(though had been looking up for duel vs his big SC. Though not 1 on 1! With lots of boyz in support ). Oh and that lone grey knight vs evil sunz teleported to my rear and charged one KMK. And sliced several dethskulls suffering wound or two.
My turn. I smited for 6 wounds, KMK fell back, other killed the GK, other shot at flier leaving it with 3 wounds. 30 grots that had just been wandering around not having anything to actually DO fired and caused yet another...Haha. That's just adding insult to injury. Goff mob charged vs his SC but not much but dethskulls put him off. With just flier left wipeout.
So there. 3 games, one minor victory, 0-20(But not wipeout) and 20-0. 13/20 for painting. 46/80 pts in other words. Seeing my usual record is like 13-15 pts painting included way over average!
But exhausting physically. I had no time to relax during turns and mid games I was busy setting up models on movement trays! GOOD thing was though I was among fastest tables every round I had almost hour left generally. Opponents were generally relaxed so weren't oohming and aahming and thinking super long. Biggest exception was game 2 though even he was fairly relaxed but hey when I said "don't bother too carefully measuring. You can put them so they can shoot" and he still measured them to exact spot and even so that 1 couldn't shoot at him. I would have been fine just put them there roughly and shoot for sake of speed.
Also all opponents were OK for using dice app for rolling big batches which was huge time saver. Combined with movement trays and the fact my turns were generally fairly low on shooting/h2h so that helped. And judges were wondering if I could play games in time Haha. With time to spare!
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/09/02 20:08:19
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
geargutz wrote: if i understand correctly having multiple factions in a list mainly allows for each of those factions to use their stratagems..but not their actual faction trait?
so you bring a detachment of snakbites so you can use snakebite stratagems but bring goffs in your "main" detachment and that is the clan trait you use?
i only play orks so im so far unfamiliar with how this all works (never really studied the pertinent rules because they didn't apply to our index army).
If you have IG detachment(definition which is found in codex but unsurprisingly has units with Astra Militarum keyword for all) then you get IG strategems. Then if you have cadian unit you can use cadian strategem for them. You don't even need cadian detachment for that. Which is why you sometimes see IG detachments with mix of say valhallan, mordian etc. They won't have regimental trait since they mix regiments but they get relics and regiment specific strategems.
How orks know is not sure because in theory they could change it but presumably work similar way so you have ork detachment(ie play orks as so far orks can't ally with anything) you get ALL strategems but clan specific ones you can't use without having that clan members somewhere. And then they only work for those.
==========
Anyway tournament report! Orks went to casual tournament here. Probably last tournament/whatever for me with index due to closeness of codex. Maybe not even event near me I could attend. I took green tide to max. 1.5k.
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Power klaw, 29x Ork Boy w/slugga&Choppa 193 pts
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Big choppa, 19x Ork Boy w/slugga&Choppa, 10xOrk Boy w/shoota 187 pts
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Big choppa, 10x Ork Boy w/slugga&Choppa, 19xOrk Boy w/shoota 187 pts
Troop: Boyz: Nob, Power klaw, 29xOrk Boy w/shoota 193 pts
Ork Battallion(+5CP)
HQ: Bik Mek: Choppa, Kustom Force Field 75 pts
HQ: Weirdboy: Da Jump 62 pts
Elite: Mek Kun: Kustom Mega Kannon 42 pts
Elite: Mek Kun: Kustom Mega Kannon 42 pts
Elite: Mek Kun: Kustom Mega Kannon 42 pts
Total: 1500 pts
I'm actually cheesy bastard and didn't really tone down my list for casual figuring orks are already casual enough Thank god for movement trays which were bloody useful timing wise(3h hours).
Game 1. - Iron warrior gunline.
Spoiler:
He had 2 slaanesh predators, to hit buffer and sorcerer, scorpion FW artirelly tank from hell that was shooting total of 6d3 S6 -2 D2 shots hitting on 2+ if he got presience off(most of the time) rerolling 1's due to HQ. 6 terminators with termi HQ. Couple tac squads, 4 havocs. 10 cultists. That's...Lots of shooting! Escalating maelstrom card plus some eternal war mission I forgot.
I had to deploy on tough quarter for me with big building causing bit of a...roadblock to say the least. However I did get turn 1. So bad moons with max shootas were da jumped forward and everybody else basically rushed to objectives. I had 5 in control pretty much right off the bat or close next turn if need be. Shooting. Shootas blew out marine squadron. Haha! He btw was OK with me using dice app. And poor fellow had most amazing streak of 1's and 2's on save which vaporized his squad. First blood for orks. This left KMK's out of original target(I had wanted to aim for first blood rather than try 9" charge) so fired at predator but pretty inefficient.
His turn 1. Stayed put, blew out most of bad moons(CP used to keep morale) and all KMK's. I failed all 5++ and he even used strategem to shoot predator again. With tuesday game I have now failed like 24/26 inv saves. Stupid mek. I joked mek better make sure he dies or I'm going to kill him very painfully myself!
Turn 2: Bad moon remnants go in and charge predator. Evil suns(20/10 choppa/shoota) da jumped next to cultists. I basically start securing objectives. Evil sunz shot at chaos marines and charged(and killed) all the cultists.
He brings in all terminators to my left(he considered going for solo strike toward my weirdboys, both with 2 wounds having perilled, but opted not to do near suicide). Predator flees and my bad moons finished off. Evil sunz shot badly. Loooots of grots die to termi bolters and plasmas pester my boyz.
Turn 3. Objective grabbing, putting up grot screen toward terminators and 2 remaining boyz rushing toward there. Evil sunz charge and dent predator. He responds by lumbering forward, vaporizing tons of grots and some boyz. Charges final grot screen which goes "poof" and he tags my deth skulls. Whoops. Bit too close.
Turn 4: I would have liked to bring in my warboss but due to roadblock couldn't. Drat. So I actually FELL BACK and put in more grots hoping to delay(might not work. Damn all that bolters etc). Weirdboy moved in and smited d6 mortals(exact 10) causing 6 wounds to terminator lord. At this point I rushed to check did the 10 grot crew from KMK have weapons. No...Drat. Not even pistol! ARGH! Would have been funny to kill him. Damn +1W warlord trait. Sacrificed one weirdboy by da jumping him to objective next to his army to get VP.
So his turn. Lumbers forward with terminators, vaporizes grot screen and bunch of death skulls, charges in and kills poor blue boyz. Oh and warlord decided to go the hell out of and "advanced" behind corner of building out of LOS. Hahahaha! Run away!
Turn 5: Warboss leads goffs into a charge at the terminators. I shot at them killing 1, charged in. With warboss and goffs killed 2 more leaving 3 left.
He basically killed some stuff and then we rolled did game end. It did. I had like 40 models left(mostly grots) but won 13-8 in vp's. Phew.
Game 2: Shooty blood angels(no that's not a typo) with knight.
Having seen those metal/blue marines with lots of guns in there I figured iron hands or ultramarines. Then I checked list and saw blood angels. Checked no slamquinus. No(Well this WAS casual tournament). Was like woot? Shooty blood angels. Not a sight you see often.
Scenario was very bad for me. Start 1 card, then turn 2 card per objective. Kill points...Ugh.
Turn 1: Knight advanced slightly keeping 1 KMK out of range. Used descend of angels to send jump packers to my rear to shoot weirdboy. Whoops. Forgot that one. Not seeing jump packing character thought I was safe. Forgot those can use it too...Drat. Shooting wasn't too bad as KMK finally started to work but weirdboy did die.
I respond moving forward to get objective 1(which he also had). I maybe screwed up and sent bad moons to deal with that 3 jump packers. KMK's tried at knight but 4++ kept unhurt. Not that he even needed 4++...5++ was enough. Other KMK blew out jump packer. Shootas took down other. Charge from bad moons caused just 1 wound though. Drat. In hindsight as opponent noted should have used KMK's to deal with them rather than worry about knight.
Turn 2: He got bunch of cards related to objective 1 so rushed there with knight. Shooting still fairly light overall but 1 KMK did die. My turn I TOO got like 2 cards for objective 1....Sheesh. It was like 2-3 cards per side dealing with that. Knight charged in killing tons of grots.
My turn. I screwed up HUGE. I fell back with grots from knights. Problem is I only fell back 1"...Meanwhile I got 2 cards related to objective 4 on his backline so another mistake likely and sent evil sunz there. Failed the charge though and they were killed next turn. On h2h phase knight heroic intervened vs grots and stomped them opening up hole to my boyz...Whoops.
Turn 3: Charge into boyz, kill tons. Shoot lots as well. Evil sunz died.
I retreated with survivors from knights, tried shooting, charged with goffs and warboss. Dented finally it(Go warboss!) but still 14 wounds left.
Turn 4: He fell back from combat and prepared to blow my weirdboy(he had witchhunt objective) which he did with ease as well as runtherd. Lots of orks died left and right.
I fell back with warboss and goffs hoping to keep them alive.
Turn 5: He surprised me and didn't go for objective with knight and instead went and charged my warboss after shooting tons of grots. Careless there. I assumed he wanted "control 3 objective" card more than my warlord so had killed goffs that would have prevented. Figured force him to abandon objective if he wants to get goffs would be enough. Whoops.
I was basically just running stuff out of combat and hide.
Turn 6: Kill some more stuff. Game ends.
Before kill points it was like 15-10. With kill points(I had only killed 2 complete units...) it was 0-20 loss for me. Ouch.
All that objective 1 was bad for me maybe. That was worth tons of vp's so wasn't feeling giving it up but that turned into slaughter house...Then deployment mistake, bad moon mistake and mistaken da jump with evil sunz. Also maybe should have used mob up rule with small grot squads...
Game 3. Grey knights. 26 models vs 243! More than 9 to 1!
Spoiler:
So he had 2 special characters, some banner bearer(SC?) who was warlord. 3 basic troop squads, 4 flamer squad(ouch), dreadnought with lascannons and missile, flier of some kind. Very...tame army indeed. Even for casual tournament this was super soft.
For scenario 3 pts per objective in the end, 1 card and then turn 2 1 per objective, no kill points. Perfect for me. Deployment I had again hard time due to huge building. Partially my fault. Went for objectives rather than easy movement. Didn't get turn 1 this time. First rolls were 2-1 so tie due to +1 and then he rolled 6. Ah well.
Turn 1:
Anyway he flew closer and brought 2 characters from DZ to edge of his DZ(guess he deep struck there just in case to avoid sniping). Worst was his flamer squad was bit exposed from one angle...As was one basic squad. Shooting killed like 4 orks as KMK finally started working blocking lascannons(helped by lousy to hit and wound rolls).
I da jumped bad moons again toward basic squad that had rushed to objective 1 he had and I had AGAIN got as well. What's up with objective 1's? Shooting. 2 KMK had LOS to flamer squad and blew them right away taking MW each. Final KMK hadn't had LOS anyway so shot at the basic squad near bad moons. However 6 shots resulted in nothing. No hits, no MW's. Weird shot. Bad moons shot 1 dead but failed the charge.
Turn 2: He brings in 2 more squads from deep strike toward bad moons. His flyer was in bit trouble having to use gate of infinity to get him out of there(otherwise I Could have literally caused him to crash and burn due to no place to move...) so went to his rear. Shooting vaporized 29 bad moons leaving just nob. I used CP to keep him alive.
My turn. I got nice set of objectives so went ahead already. Psychic I sent up evil sunz to his rear but this time it was more sensible I think than last. IF I can charge that's a) prevent defend objective for him b) prevent dread from shooting c) force him to split attention. So shooting I killed all but 1 from basic squad near objective 1 with my bad moon nob next. I opted to not shoot more to ensure I can get charge and get that secure 1. Evil sunz fired at dreadnought and caused whopping 3 wounds. Charge. Evil suns charge succesfully dreadnought. Bad moon nob charges but takes 2 hits from 4 shots in overwatch. 2 wounds. Crap. Luckily I rolled 6 and killed him in h2h. Struct there first to make damned sure intercept doesn't get him. Objective mine. And evil sunz killed dreadnought as well. Good.
Turn 3: He goes for "nothing to do but go for glory" and was about to head for goffs and dethskulls and then...Changes mind and goes toward evil sunz. IMO this was mistake on his part. Flier moves, is teleported back, shoots. Basically he blew tons of evil sunz but here I was cunning and took up entire front of my unit. Albeit this took out most of my choppas AND my nob but this made him harder to charge(6" and 9" and all 3 solo's were over 12"...). Albeit the 2 troop units got in but they didn't do much and I started grinding them down.
My turn. Due to evil sunz situation his characters were open for shooting! KMK's killed his warlord without too much of an effort. Hah! There was also 1 character behind building that hadn't went toward evil sunz. Some sort of SC's. He was there holding objective. I had also the "control center" so if I wanted it I had to kill him. 30 grots teleported next to him as well shooting for wound or two. Goffs advanced and charged him. Basically killed him right away without too much of a trouble. THEN he let out know he now gets to strike ANYWAY. 5 attacks hitting on 2+ wounding on 2+ getting extra attacks on successes and then with strategem FIGHT AGAIN. After dying he in otherwords sliced 12 goffs...Whoops. Well good trade off but that's not what you often see! Oh and evil sunz finished all but 1 grey knight.
Turn 4: His big SC terminator moves in and charges deth skulls. Flier moved next to my warboss(whoops) and killed him with twin short range lascannons. Well this was going so well didn't even feel bad about losing him(though had been looking up for duel vs his big SC. Though not 1 on 1! With lots of boyz in support ). Oh and that lone grey knight vs evil sunz teleported to my rear and charged one KMK. And sliced several dethskulls suffering wound or two.
My turn. I smited for 6 wounds, KMK fell back, other killed the GK, other shot at flier leaving it with 3 wounds. 30 grots that had just been wandering around not having anything to actually DO fired and caused yet another...Haha. That's just adding insult to injury. Goff mob charged vs his SC but not much but dethskulls put him off. With just flier left wipeout.
So there. 3 games, one minor victory, 0-20(But not wipeout) and 20-0. 13/20 for painting. 46/80 pts in other words. Seeing my usual record is like 13-15 pts painting included way over average!
But exhausting physically. I had no time to relax during turns and mid games I was busy setting up models on movement trays! GOOD thing was though I was among fastest tables every round I had almost hour left generally. Opponents were generally relaxed so weren't oohming and aahming and thinking super long. Biggest exception was game 2 though even he was fairly relaxed but hey when I said "don't bother too carefully measuring. You can put them so they can shoot" and he still measured them to exact spot and even so that 1 couldn't shoot at him. I would have been fine just put them there roughly and shoot for sake of speed.
Also all opponents were OK for using dice app for rolling big batches which was huge time saver. Combined with movement trays and the fact my turns were generally fairly low on shooting/h2h so that helped. And judges were wondering if I could play games in time Haha. With time to spare!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: Just paint grots all colors. They'll fit all clans.
Automatically Appended Next Post: no one would ever care.
And how you then separate grot unit A from grot unit B? That's the issue. Not that they are colour coded into 1 unit(they are already clan neutral colour so can be used for all clans...) but it's "bit" different do you have goff grots or dethskull grots don't you think? One gets extra attacks in h2h, one gets 6++.
Problem isn't that grots are colour coded to 1 clan. Problem is how to separate 2 identical looking grots with different rules...Until that works quick&easy for BOTH players they will actually be played clanless. No clan bonus, no warlord keeping order, no nothing. That's the ONLY fair solution. Until they can be identified with one quick look they won't benefit from clan rules(including warboss). Anything other would be me being a TFG jerk.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 20:11:16
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/09/02 20:12:19
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
flandarz wrote: With Dakkax3, do ya'll think Flash Gitz (backed by Runts and Badrukk) will be more viable?
I do. 2 sets of reroll available as well as exploding 6's and their show off rule. Should be quite good. The only issue is making sure they have a target or two and not getting them killed before they get to shoot a few times. In fairness I have used them once, Mob of 5 with runts that time. they did very well all game against Space wolves last year.
I own 15 in total now, after that game I was sold on them. They'll be more exciting now.
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
2018/09/03 05:15:14
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Flash gits do have an awesome profile, it's just that they cost too much and die to easy under their current rules.
If points drop, they could be pretty good with the grot shield stratagem.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/09/03 05:25:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
BTW something that seemed to work for me nicely this time was what I had been planning to try. Columns rather than lines. Rather than units deploying maximizing frontage with others on side or if no room behind deploy them narrow(so with my movement trays generally 10 boyz in rough skirmish line with maybe 4-5 orks wide and then rest stacked behind).
Solved a lot of "one unit gets wiped and next is too far to threaten anything".
Others probably figured this out long time ago Took me this long.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/09/03 10:25:02
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Regarding the issue with grots and clans (and boys & clans, as well) it could be a simple fix to make some banner holders / marker models for the units (simply swap them out to keep them on the board, don't use anyone special like a RL or a Nob) so you can announce that your unit of yellow-armoured orks are in fact goffs, ergo the goff banner one of them is waving.
it could easily be made from the (now defunct) bosspole, with minimal model impact - just add it to one of the models. keen converters could magnetise them, even, so each unit has one boy who carries a clan glyph. Job done.
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
flandarz wrote: With Dakkax3, do ya'll think Flash Gitz (backed by Runts and Badrukk) will be more viable?
In my opinion...no, unless they seriously change the stats on them. Badrukkz ability is already in the released Klan Traits, rerolling 1s. the only benefit they get right now is the exploding 6s and grot shields if that turns out to be a thing. So maybe if Badrukk gave +1 BS instead of rerolling 1s and then you can use those ammo runtz to reroll 2s it turns them into a rerolling all failed to hit scenario that degrades as you lose runtz. But even then you still need a pretty hefty points decrease because 27pts for what is equivalent (worse) then a Space marine with a Plasma gun isn't good. btw I say worse because to get the same benefits as a Marine you need to buy the runtz which runs their cost to 31pts, then you need to buy the Grot squad to eat those bullets because a 6+ to save isn't going to cut it so that is another 40-120pts, basically that 10 strong flashgit squad quickly spirals out of control.
I think the issue with the paint scheme thing is that, unlike with, say, Space Marine Chapters or Eldar Craftworlds, Ork armies have always previously comprised Orks from several, if not all, the Clans (at least as per the background). As such, there are potentially a lot of people who are going to find themselves without a workable army (or at least one that can’t take advantage of clan traits) once the new Codex rolls round. I’m still crossing my fingers that maybe we’ll get some sort of special rule on army composition that takes this into account (much like how the DEldar got their “CPs for 3 patrols” rule).
2018/09/03 21:02:19
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Fairly unsurprising except for battlewagon. What purpose that is being used for...
For leaving the enemy wondering why its there then striking why they are still confused?
For generating sympathy and then taking ruthless advantage?
For the sake of doing something unexpected?
For the simple reason its fits into the carry case?
the only time I take out my battlewagons is on the occasion I know my opponent is going to try and list tailor It is so much fun to watch their jaw drop when you plop a bunch of T8 models on the table instead of the 200 ork boyz he was expecting....what's that? you brought 17 flamers to the game? weird, to bad.
The last time I did that I brought 3 Battlewagonz 6 KMK gunz and Ghaz. My opponent brought anti-infantry weapons for days and he was so ticked off when my wagonz just drove straight into his units and dropped everyone off into CC range
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/03 21:38:06
In my opinion...no, unless they seriously change the stats on them. Badrukkz ability is already in the released Klan Traits, rerolling 1s. the only benefit they get right now is the exploding 6s and grot shields if that turns out to be a thing. So maybe if Badrukk gave +1 BS instead of rerolling 1s and then you can use those ammo runtz to reroll 2s it turns them into a rerolling all failed to hit scenario that degrades as you lose runtz. But even then you still need a pretty hefty points decrease because 27pts for what is equivalent (worse) then a Space marine with a Plasma gun isn't good. btw I say worse because to get the same benefits as a Marine you need to buy the runtz which runs their cost to 31pts, then you need to buy the Grot squad to eat those bullets because a 6+ to save isn't going to cut it so that is another 40-120pts, basically that 10 strong flashgit squad quickly spirals out of control.
Yeah. They're quite expensive. When you can grab like 8 Lootas with better range and damage potential for the same survivability (if you ignore the increased size giving a better chance of making it through a volley of attacks), for the cost of 5 Gitz, it definitely doesn't make them an attractive option. Might be worthwhile if they drop Snazzgunz to Assault, so they don't lose out on their BS for moving into range though.
Edit: I guess you could load em onto a Chinork to drop em next to some elite Infantry without having to suffer a Move penalty (and to slightly increase survivability), but still seems pretty expensive for less shots than you'd get from a Boy Blob you Jump'd in.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/04 02:33:43
2018/09/04 02:41:49
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
tneva82 wrote: BTW something that seemed to work for me nicely this time was what I had been planning to try. Columns rather than lines. Rather than units deploying maximizing frontage with others on side or if no room behind deploy them narrow(so with my movement trays generally 10 boyz in rough skirmish line with maybe 4-5 orks wide and then rest stacked behind).
Solved a lot of "one unit gets wiped and next is too far to threaten anything".
Others probably figured this out long time ago Took me this long.
Removing from the back this edition is strong, I just lost a game this weekend where I messed this exact technique up, I went into a narrow place deployed 6x5 and my boyz went in one group at a time in three turns and got destroyed.
It's important to remember you can deploy in 3x10 columns and pull from the back.
On a seperate note, I did win one game this weekend with this list
Boyz [13 PL, 193pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz [13 PL, 193pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz [13 PL, 193pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz [13 PL, 193pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Shoota
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
++ Total: [113 PL, 2000pts] ++
Created with [url=https://battlescribe.net]BattleScribe
I won't pretend I did anything skilled, I seized the initiative and rolled great dice turn 1&2. Got a concede on turn 3, neva happens. Shoutout to Big Mek on bike with KFF for some sweet saves, Ramshackle roll on truklz turning up more then once this game, making a 9 inch Da Jump assault turn 2, and for tankbustas shooting more then they should turn one and two.
My opponent was kind enough to let me use the Goff clan trait since I brought Ghaz'khull. Let's hope Ghaz isn't stuck being Goff or he might not make it to any lists post codex, assuming the other clans are better. More attacks on a six has nothing on more movement or a save :/
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
2018/09/04 02:51:22
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
tneva82 wrote: BTW something that seemed to work for me nicely this time was what I had been planning to try. Columns rather than lines. Rather than units deploying maximizing frontage with others on side or if no room behind deploy them narrow(so with my movement trays generally 10 boyz in rough skirmish line with maybe 4-5 orks wide and then rest stacked behind).
Solved a lot of "one unit gets wiped and next is too far to threaten anything".
Others probably figured this out long time ago Took me this long.
Removing from the back this edition is strong, I just lost a game this weekend where I messed this exact technique up, I went into a narrow place deployed 6x5 and my boyz went in one group at a time in three turns and got destroyed.
Yep. Pulling from the back is effectively extra movement. The center of the unit (especially if they are in a line) moves forward with every boy killed.
2018/09/04 04:57:32
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
tneva82 wrote: Fairly unsurprising except for battlewagon. What purpose that is being used for...
The battlewagon had unit of boyz and a bunch characters inside to both protect them and minimize drops. Both appearances were from the same player playing almost the same list.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/09/04 12:05:53
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I kinda figure each detachment is going be be Klan Locked. select detachment then select klan. then select other detachment select other klan.
and if not i will probably play it that way. makes it super easy in your head when you know what units are in which detachment.
i almost always have all my boyz in my battalion detachment, then run either a spearhead or a vanguard. so i will likely make the detachment full of models that benefit from a klan trait and make it that klan.
in my head thats a easy way to compartmentalize and control who gets what rules.
2018/09/04 18:36:57
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I got to play a game using Dakka! Dakka! Dakka!. FLGS has a narrative campaign running and the organiser gave me the okay to use it pre-codex. Definitely not a competitive match and the game mode was a bit of a goofy homebrew. The game mode was my opponent defending objectives, I had no deployment zone and had to roll for reserves, where infantry deepstriked and everything else entered on a board edge. We weren't told in advance so my list didn't cater for it.
Can definitely say I felt the change. Shooting actually felt like it mattered! Shoota boyz felt like a more valid swap with choppa boyz. I tried out Flash Gitz as well, they were very killy with the ammo runt re-rolls and bonus attacks. They're still overpriced considering you end up paying 50-60 ppm when you factor in the transport for them to not get deleted turn 1. Kustom mega-kannons are straight up better, as expected. Warboss on warbike also posed a minor threat to infantry with his dakka too.
Next weeks game is either 750 doubles or 1500 solo, I'm planning on making lists for both that have a mix of other shooty units to get a feel for them. I've got some WIP Lootas that I'll experiment with, and probably some variant of a battlewagon.
Played a casual 2k game against a pal. I fielded a Warboss with Squig and Headwoppa's Killchoppa, 3 Weirdboys, 2 Big Meks with KFF and Oil Grots, 3 5-man Lootas, 3 30-man Boyz (14 Slugga, 15 Shoota, 1 Nob with Slugga), and 2 Gorkanauts in a Battalion, Supreme Command, and Spearhead. He ran Tau. Multiple Pathfinders, Fireblades, 3 9-man Sniper Drones, a couple Coldstars... I forget what all he had, but he was focused on Markerlights, Tau Sept, and TGG. I got slaughtered. I concedes at the end of Turn 3, with all Boy Mobs wiped, 2 Weirdboyz killed, and a Gork exploded which killed both Meks. I think I managed to whittle down some of his Fire Warriors and Pathfinders and killed a couple Coldstars, but I failed 2 charges after separate Da Jumps, after surviving Overwatch, and that was basically the end. Orkz can't beat Tau at the ranged game.
The Lootas actually performed well, so that's a plus.
2018/09/05 03:37:27
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
He'd probably disagree. Hahaha! He loves to complain about how overpriced and underpowered Tau are. He usually runs almost exclusively Suits and Vehicles, so this was his attempt at "horde" style playing.
2018/09/05 04:29:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Thank god for movement trays which were bloody useful timing wise(3h hours).
It is so much fun to watch their jaw drop when you plop a bunch of T8 models on the table instead of the 200 ork boyz he was expecting....what's that? you brought 17 flamers to the game? weird, to bad. 
