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I think he usually runs Coldstars, Broadsides, and... some flying vehicles. He tends to prefer high Wound, Move, and 2/3+ Save Models over infantry. First game I played against him, he only fielded like 5 models.

 flandarz wrote:
I think he usually runs Coldstars, Broadsides, and... some flying vehicles. He tends to prefer high Wound, Move, and 2/3+ Save Models over infantry. First game I played against him, he only fielded like 5 models.

Hopefully he'll go back to that 5-model list, after we get our codex. You can return the slaughter.

Hahaha! Maybe. Honestly, if I'd made those easy 9" charges, the whole game could have turned around. Just can't expect to beat Tau at the ranged game.

 flandarz wrote:
Hahaha! Maybe. Honestly, if I'd made those easy 9" charges, the whole game could have turned around. Just can't expect to beat Tau at the ranged game.

Easy? Slightly under 50% odds...25% for both to fail

Maybe I've just always been lucky on my charges, but failing two in a row was a shock. Lol!

Selective memory. Odds are slightly below 50% for one charge(was it like 48%) so failing 2 is about 25%(slightly less). Annoying but not THAT unreasonable. That's btw why I have stopped relying on da jump charge. I don't neccessarily even try that but instead throw in grots or send in boyz with many shootas to at least shoot in case they don't charge and generally assume any unit da jumped will die, half the time without even making the charge. Bigger usage than charge for da jump is actually fasten the general advance as terrain and huge numbers generally mean some units are tagging behind.

Charge is just too unreliable to rely on. Well until you bring in codex evil sunz boyz that is. Evil sunz. Master of ambush!

 flandarz wrote:
He'd probably disagree. Hahaha! He loves to complain about how overpriced and underpowered Tau are. He usually runs almost exclusively Suits and Vehicles, so this was his attempt at "horde" style playing.

It's tricky, because against a lot of armies he's probably right. But it just so happens that the strengths the tau DO have (long range high strength but low AP weapons, crazy overwatch) are PERFECT for killing orks. I could see Tau struggling vs marines, gaurd, eldar, and feeling pretty underpowered. But against orks, they're going to consistently wreck us.

Oi youz Gitz! This upcoming Friday I have a 3K game against a friend's Dark Angels and he is being gracious enough to let me borrow his Orks as I'm holding off purchasing anything until the Codex drops. We are going to use this game to test out the new Dakka Dakka rule that has been confirmed by GW for both of us and personally for me to test out some units I'm interested in running already.

I've built the core of my list around an Evil Suns theme as they are the Klan I am most interested in running. Since this will be my very first game with Orks in 8th edition I'd appreciate you guys letting me know what you guys think and thanks for the feedback!

BATTALION + SH-AUXILARY DETACHMENT:

HQ:
-Big Mek w/ KFF, Choppa
-Weirdboy w/ Da Jump
-Warboss w/ Kill Choppa, Combi Skorcha

TROOPS:
-x3 Squads of 12 Slugga Boyz w/ Big Choppa Nob
-x3 Trukks w/ Big Shootas
-x30 Shoota Boyz w/ Big Choppa Nob, x3 Big Shootas

ELITES:
-x2 Squads of x10 Tankbustas
-x1 Squad of 9 Burna Boyz
-x3 Chinork Warkoptas w/ Rokkit Launcha

FAST ATTACK:
-x5 Deff Koptas

LORD OF WAR:

-Stompa

TOTAL ARMY: 2998

Tactics:

-Big Mek babysits Stompa to give it a little more survivability

-Squads of Slugga Boyz in Trukks to fit Evil Sun theme, mobility for objectives or putting pressure on opponents line

-Da Jump for Shoota Boy Squad, ideally would be going first and having them pop up and do some damage, in particular to his Black Knights

-Chinorks will carry Tankbustas and Burnas giving me the option to deep strike them potentially depending on opponents list.

-Deff Koptas Provide support where necessary, either with Shoota Squad, Chinorks or Trukks

-Stompa blasts everything

I guess the best advice is have fun, no matter what happens.

Be prepared to get blown off the table though...

Gonna run a little game against another pal of mine. He likes Nidz. Usually runs a couple Flyrants, with GS's, Termies, and Hiveguard rounding things up. I'll be running something pretty close to my normal list, though I've swapped the Mek Gunz for Lootas.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [58 PL, 879pts] ++

+ HQ +

Ghazghkull Thraka [11 PL, 215pts]: Might is Right, Warlord

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops +

Boyz [13 PL, 180pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 15x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 14x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 180pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 15x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 14x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 180pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 15x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 14x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [56 PL, 804pts] ++

+ HQ +

Big Mek [5 PL, 79pts]: Choppa, Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field

Ork Mek Boss Buzzgob [6 PL, 95pts]: Kustom Force Field, Nitnuckle and Lunk

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [9 PL, 120pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 14x Stormboy

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [12 PL, 170pts]: 10x Loota

Lootas [12 PL, 170pts]: 10x Loota

Lootas [12 PL, 170pts]: 10x Loota

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Orks) [23 PL, 316pts] ++

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

+ Elites +

Kommandos [6 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 7x Kommando
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Burna

Kommandos [6 PL, 90pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 7x Kommando
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Burna

Mad Dok Grotsnik [7 PL, 74pts]

++ Total: [137 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Edit: For clarity, I'm gonna Da Jump two of the Blobs close to his units while Footsloggin' Ghaz, Grotsnik, Buzzgob, the Wierdboyz, and the last Boyz Blob towards his lines. The Lootas and Big Mek will hang out towards the back of the deployment zone. I'll drop in the Kommandos where I need back-up, and the Stormboyz are gonna be hunting Objectives.

Edit2: He sent me his list.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [71 PL, 1315pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Gametype

Hive Fleet: Hydra

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 204pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Paroxysm, Power: The Horror, Slimer Maggot Infestation, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings

Tervigon [13 PL, 243pts]: Massive Scything Talons, Stinger Salvo, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Endless Regeneration

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 180pts]
. 30x Hormagaunt: 30x Adrenal Glands

Termagants [9 PL, 160pts]
. 10x Termagant (Devourer): 10x Devourer
. 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Elites +

Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [37 PL, 685pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Hydra

+ HQ +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Catalyst

Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Onslaught

+ Troops +

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 180pts]
. 30x Hormagaunt: 30x Adrenal Glands

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants [9 PL, 152pts]
. 9x Termagant (Devourer): 9x Devourer
. 20x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Fast Attack +

Gargoyles [9 PL, 180pts]: 30x Gargoyle

++ Total: [108 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I might trim the Kommandos to one squad of 15, run the Lootas 15, 9, and 6 so you can mob up the 15 and 9 squad and reroll the number of shots when it is bad, and maybe cut the Stormboyz for more boyz. Maybe don't mix sluggas and shootas.

Also, you can only jump one unit a turn, so think more in terms of jumping one unit of shoota boyz to hand out lead and hopefully you make the assault.

I fear for a list that doesn't have KMK or Tankbustas

 Rismonite wrote:
I might trim the Kommandos to one squad of 15, run the Lootas 15, 9, and 6 so you can mob up the 15 and 9 squad and reroll the number of shots when it is bad, and maybe cut the Stormboyz for more boyz. Maybe don't mix sluggas and shootas.

Also, you can only jump one unit a turn, so think more in terms of jumping one unit of shoota boyz to hand out lead and hopefully you make the assault.

I fear for a list that doesn't have KMK or Tankbustas

I had considered dropped a squad of Kommandos and putting in Tankbustas, but he's running Nids. No vehicles, so no rerolls. Since I needed 3 Elites to fill out the Vanguard, 2 Kommandos was as good a choice as any. I like the Banner Nob, but I've rarely been able to put him to good use, and I got the Mad Doc to run FnPs and Healz for Ghaz, so didn't see much point in throwing in another Painboy.

I might do that with the Lootas, actually. Maybe run then 15/9, then drop the 6 for some KMKs. I DO enjoy the Mek Gunz; I just wish they had Loota Range.

Yeah. I've also seen some limited success with Stormboyz, but they work well for rushing into Objectives, or taking out his flying units, so I tend to keep at least a small group of em around.

I know I can only Da Jump once a turn. Not a huge deal, I'm just gonna jump em in different Turns. If I need to.

I've done solid units of Sluggas and Shootas, and this ratio usually seems about right. Gives me a little extra range and shots for the ranged game, while still giving me the Choppas for when I charge in. I can take casualties from the Shootas as I take Wounds too, without feeling like I'm taking a huge hit to CC effectiveness.

Edit: That said, I did take most of your advice. Dropped the Stormboyz. Improved the Kommandos to Max Size. Adjusted the Lootas to 15/9/8 (Mob Up Turn 1 and 2), and changed my Boyz to 2 Units of Sluggas and 1 of Shootas.

Okay will be facing necrons with single tesserract vault next week. Not much experience with necrons and zero against vault. What kind of a thing that is from ork point of view? Quick look at the rules indicate to me it seems to be mostly for MW dealer which means it shouldn't be TOO bad for orks...Correct?

It can be very annoying to deal with as it's pretty tough, can delete 1/3 of any squad and one-shot characters with fewer wounds like wierdboyz, meks and painboyz on a 4+. It also can spam mw against msu like nothing else.

 koooaei wrote:
It can be very annoying to deal with as it's pretty tough, can delete 1/3 of any squad and one-shot characters with fewer wounds like wierdboyz, meks and painboyz on a 4+. It also can spam mw against msu like nothing else.

Hmm. I will be using bit mechanized list so can be bit scary. Would you recommend ignoring it and go for others just accepting casualties or should I try to go for it? Not sure how I can deal with it though. Orks struggle even with leman russ shooting wise nevermind this(and besides with just 3 KMK and some shootas not much shooting anyway). H2h...well at least it's only T7 so I can wound on 5+ but still. 28W and 3+. That's a loooot of attacks that needs to come. Feels like trying to take one out might take so much effort rest of necrons will walk over objectives and my army!

You might think about adding some Big Meks with KFFs and some Painboyz to improve your survivability against it. Other than that, and I'm gonna assume it's got the Vehicle tag, Tankbustas will be beneficial, especially with either old or new Dakkax3.

 flandarz wrote:
You might think about adding some Big Meks with KFFs and some Painboyz to improve your survivability against it. Other than that, and I'm gonna assume it's got the Vehicle tag, Tankbustas will be beneficial, especially with either old or new Dakkax3.

Tesseract vault deals mostly mortal wounda as its main damage source so kff wont be much help unfortunately, especially if he runs vehicles.

It doesn't deal that much damage to vehicles usually. But it can be really tough to bring down with high toughness, wounds and 4++ that sometimes goes up to 3++.
Though, it's just a strong unit - nothing you can't overcome. Just a bit unusual. Use your brain and you'll be fine.

Pal of mine brought up a thought to me about how Dakkax3 will work with Lootas.
I think his argument is that because the rule says "make an additional hit roll against same target using the same weapon" and also "When fireing a weapon with randomly determined characteristics, any additional hit roles use the same CHARACTERISTICS as the hit roll that generated the additional hit roll"

His logic is thus
"Type is a characteristic, Lootas guns type is heavy d3

Special rule says you roll 1 d3 to determine the number of shots for whole unit.

Dakka dakka says if you roll a six with a weapon that uses a randomly determined characteristic (heavy d3) any hit rolls use the same characteristics as the hit roll that generated the additional hit roll

Every 6 a loota gets if he rolled 3 shots would be 3 more for each 6 roll it makes"

I am of the mind that we gain an additional hit for each of the natural 6's rolled and thats the end of that. The intent being they mean only to be using the strength damage and ap.

but i can see how the wording could lead some to argue that.

what do you guys think? Im not really a rules hound and dont really have a flair for picking out which parts of the rule interact with which other parts in rulebooks.

 Dojo wrote:
Pal of mine brought up a thought to me about how Dakkax3 will work with Lootas.
I think his argument is that because the rule says "make an additional hit roll against same target using the same weapon" and also "When fireing a weapon with randomly determined characteristics, any additional hit roles use the same CHARACTERISTICS as the hit roll that generated the additional hit roll"

His logic is thus
"Type is a characteristic, Lootas guns type is heavy d3

Special rule says you roll 1 d3 to determine the number of shots for whole unit.

Dakka dakka says if you roll a six with a weapon that uses a randomly determined characteristic (heavy d3) any hit rolls use the same characteristics as the hit roll that generated the additional hit roll

Every 6 a loota gets if he rolled 3 shots would be 3 more for each 6 roll it makes"

I am of the mind that we gain an additional hit for each of the natural 6's rolled and thats the end of that. The intent being they mean only to be using the strength damage and ap.

but i can see how the wording could lead some to argue that.

what do you guys think? Im not really a rules hound and dont really have a flair for picking out which parts of the rule interact with which other parts in rulebooks.

No, that can't be the case. I've stated it before but imagine a kill tank with a giga shoota. According to that logic if you make 1 hit roll of 6 you'll get to roll an additional 21ish(6d6) shots. That'd be ridiculous. It's in my mind cleary meant to be "if you roll a 6, you get to roll another die"

Yea your friend is wrong on the Lootas. Dakka says make an additional shooting attack. A shooting attack is one dice only. So an assault 2 weapon makes 2 shooting attacks.

You are correct in that the characteristics in the rule refer to the S, AP etc if they are modifiable.

Granted, lootas being able to shoot 3 extra shots for every roll of a 6 would actually make them worth taking

Why isn't there more Kustom Mega Kannon spam? They seem to have crazy damage output?

karandrasss wrote:
Why isn't there more Kustom Mega Kannon spam? They seem to have crazy damage output?

36e for 42pts model. Nuff said. Not many can afford the maximum 18 kmk's.

tneva82 wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
Why isn't there more Kustom Mega Kannon spam? They seem to have crazy damage output?

36e for 42pts model. Nuff said. Not many can afford the maximum 18 kmk's.

Right now the cost of 18 KMKs, brand new from the GW store is $990, which in the game is only 756pts. So they literally cost more then $1 a point , that is why nobody is spamming them, plus they aren't great in an Ork list. Please keep in mind I think they are wonderful models and pretty darn good, but in an Ork list atm the only way to be competitive is to spam boyz and storm boyz and bum rush up the field. Even though KMKs are good, they take away from more boyz and that unfortunately detracts from our main objective. Plus, with 4+ to hit and the plethora of -1 and -2 to hit modifiers in the game, they aren't that reliable, add to that their lower Toughness and lower Armor save compared to last edition and they are the epitome of "Glass Cannon", except their Cannon part isn't good enough to justify how quickly they melt under scrutiny.

karandrasss wrote:
Why isn't there more Kustom Mega Kannon spam? They seem to have crazy damage output?

I ended last edition with 12. I am down to 3 or 4 now, I decided I like Smasha guns and Bubble chukkas.
Mek gunz cost too much, never buy more than you have to. Trade for them or get them second hand. Or put some one in debt to you and let them pay you in KMK's !

Kustom Mega Kannons are excellent and I wouldn't even describe them as glass cannons because they're fairly durable for their points. They're cheap, pack a punch, a full unit counts as a single deploment drop but they have to be targeted individually during the game and they come with hard-to-target easy-to-hide objective grabbers. Even with -1 to-hit opponents I find them incredibly useful. They're our best shooting unit without exception and, I would imagine, comparable to similar shooting units elsewhere in the game unlike our other options. They're well worth reducing the amount of Boyz in your list to take.

xlDuke wrote:
Kustom Mega Kannons are excellent and I wouldn't even describe them as glass cannons because they're fairly durable for their points. They're cheap, pack a punch, a full unit counts as a single deploment drop but they have to be targeted individually during the game and they come with hard-to-target easy-to-hide objective grabbers. Even with -1 to-hit opponents I find them incredibly useful. They're our best shooting unit without exception and, I would imagine, comparable to similar shooting units elsewhere in the game unlike our other options. They're well worth reducing the amount of Boyz in your list to take.

T5 with a 5+ to save and 6 wounds isn't "Durable" especially since on rolls of 1 you are inflicting a Mortal wound to yourself, add in -1 to hit and its pretty likely you will lose at least 1 wound a turn. For their points they are good, but as I mentioned, at $55 a pop, you aren't likely to field too many, and since they are about the only multi-wound models worth taking at the moment they tend to draw a disproportionate amount of anti-tank fire which eats a lot of wounds quickly. Why blast an ork squad with 4 Lascannons and kill 2 or 3 Ork boyz (18pts) when you could just blast a Mek Gun and reliably kill it. So it doesn't draw fire away from the boyz that really matters as much as becomes good targets for the enemies heavier weapons.

I 100% agree they are hands down the best shooting unit in our index, but since they have zero synergy and no buffs to make them better at shooting they aren't as good compared to other factions units, like a Dev squad or a Predator backed by papa Smurf, or Tau units backed by markerlights and their plethora of rerolls and +1 shots etc.

SemperMortis wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Kustom Mega Kannons are excellent and I wouldn't even describe them as glass cannons because they're fairly durable for their points. They're cheap, pack a punch, a full unit counts as a single deploment drop but they have to be targeted individually during the game and they come with hard-to-target easy-to-hide objective grabbers. Even with -1 to-hit opponents I find them incredibly useful. They're our best shooting unit without exception and, I would imagine, comparable to similar shooting units elsewhere in the game unlike our other options. They're well worth reducing the amount of Boyz in your list to take.

T5 with a 5+ to save and 6 wounds isn't "Durable" especially since on rolls of 1 you are inflicting a Mortal wound to yourself, add in -1 to hit and its pretty likely you will lose at least 1 wound a turn. For their points they are good, but as I mentioned, at $55 a pop, you aren't likely to field too many, and since they are about the only multi-wound models worth taking at the moment they tend to draw a disproportionate amount of anti-tank fire which eats a lot of wounds quickly. Why blast an ork squad with 4 Lascannons and kill 2 or 3 Ork boyz (18pts) when you could just blast a Mek Gun and reliably kill it. So it doesn't draw fire away from the boyz that really matters as much as becomes good targets for the enemies heavier weapons.

I 100% agree they are hands down the best shooting unit in our index, but since they have zero synergy and no buffs to make them better at shooting they aren't as good compared to other factions units, like a Dev squad or a Predator backed by papa Smurf, or Tau units backed by markerlights and their plethora of rerolls and +1 shots etc.

I'd say that for their low points cost they are more or less suitably durable in relation to their offense. They're certainly not as good as Boyz, neither are a significant amount of units in the game, but Boyz don't throw D6 S8 -3 AP D3 damage shots at 36" range. There are some things Boyz won't catch up to over the course of a game and some targets that ideally need softening up before the Boyz arrive. Vertus Praetors are the first unit that comes to mind, Boyz don't stand much of a chance against them but a battery of KMK can really do some damage.

Boyz and KMK are both cheap enough that you can have relatively large amounts of both in the same list. I find they complement each other well enough, in the context of our Index, that I'm happy to take them even if it degrades my usually beloved target saturation strategies.

I'm actually a bit concerned that they'll get nerfed a little in the Codex because they're a stand-out unit right now compared to our other, terrible, options.

xlDuke wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Kustom Mega Kannons are excellent and I wouldn't even describe them as glass cannons because they're fairly durable for their points. They're cheap, pack a punch, a full unit counts as a single deploment drop but they have to be targeted individually during the game and they come with hard-to-target easy-to-hide objective grabbers. Even with -1 to-hit opponents I find them incredibly useful. They're our best shooting unit without exception and, I would imagine, comparable to similar shooting units elsewhere in the game unlike our other options. They're well worth reducing the amount of Boyz in your list to take.

T5 with a 5+ to save and 6 wounds isn't "Durable" especially since on rolls of 1 you are inflicting a Mortal wound to yourself, add in -1 to hit and its pretty likely you will lose at least 1 wound a turn. For their points they are good, but as I mentioned, at $55 a pop, you aren't likely to field too many, and since they are about the only multi-wound models worth taking at the moment they tend to draw a disproportionate amount of anti-tank fire which eats a lot of wounds quickly. Why blast an ork squad with 4 Lascannons and kill 2 or 3 Ork boyz (18pts) when you could just blast a Mek Gun and reliably kill it. So it doesn't draw fire away from the boyz that really matters as much as becomes good targets for the enemies heavier weapons.

I 100% agree they are hands down the best shooting unit in our index, but since they have zero synergy and no buffs to make them better at shooting they aren't as good compared to other factions units, like a Dev squad or a Predator backed by papa Smurf, or Tau units backed by markerlights and their plethora of rerolls and +1 shots etc.

I'd say that for their low points cost they are more or less suitably durable in relation to their offense. They're certainly not as good as Boyz, neither are a significant amount of units in the game, but Boyz don't throw D6 S8 -3 AP D3 damage shots at 36" range. There are some things Boyz won't catch up to over the course of a game and some targets that ideally need softening up before the Boyz arrive. Vertus Praetors are the first unit that comes to mind, Boyz don't stand much of a chance against them but a battery of KMK can really do some damage.

Boyz and KMK are both cheap enough that you can have relatively large amounts of both in the same list. I find they complement each other well enough, in the context of our Index, that I'm happy to take them even if it degrades my usually beloved target saturation strategies.

I'm actually a bit concerned that they'll get nerfed a little in the Codex because they're a stand-out unit right now compared to our other, terrible, options.

I can agree with those points, and I share that fear, I just hope to god someone who isn't anti-ork is writing our codex because while the KMK stands out in the ork dex, it is rather mediocre compared to other armies ranged units.