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Nuck Fewton wrote:
Oh I don't care for tailoring lists against opponents anyway. I just find boy spam super boring to play.

With only a few targets for their anti tank your cannons will never last. Super skorchas have a 24" range. Kustom force fields also negate a third of their fire power

Oh 24"? Sweet. Though math is STILL heavily against them. All those dark lances and disintegrators will make short work of minimum one(5++ or not) so on turn 1 I would be losing 1(remember he will almost certainly get +1 since it's hard to compete with mechanized dark eldar with drops) as a minimum. Return fire I need 2 to skorch 1 venom(and those were the main damage dealers against me so priority target #1) so I would basically look at taking out 1, 2 if I go first in game out of half a dozen. Then big trakks would be out.

Also KMK's or big trakk's both were more or less equally survivable per points here. KMK is softer yes but also less than 1/3 cost. Actually more like 1/4 so KMK's are TOUGHER to take out than big trakks.

500 pts or so to take out 150 pts of dark eldar vehicles IF I go first. Not particularly good trade off.

Core issue here is that dark eldar is currently one of the best armies in the game that's doing good in tournaments and short of ynnear and doom+dark reaper allies from craftworld this was pretty much souped up tournament list(I think he's practicing for next one already. Certainly I often see him duelling with one other local tournament hard liner) and orks as they are are struggling even in casual enviroment. And dark eldars have pretty much all the tools they need against orks. As it is I brought up tailor made list as it WAS as I made all his anti tank weapons pretty much useless. Alas even anti-tank dark eldars are sprouting ridiculous amount of poison weapon that have 78% hit chance or are wounding on 2+. With 6+ save that's tough to deal with. Even with my super hot dice(I rolled repeatedly 3 6's out of 4 dices...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gmaleron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Big trakks would have had the firepower I needed and are on my to-get list but with them comes issue that 1 would have been blown up on T1(and even if I go first odds of reaching dark eldars that were like 28" away from me to start with would have been tough with 8" flamers...) so I would have needed max 3. 4 KMK and 3 of those and something might have survived T1 pounding(that was a lot of dark lances and disintegrators I faced!)

On the topic of Big Trakk I'm planning on getting/custom building 3 anyway to basically run as proxied "Looted Wagons" in case they don't make an appearance in the Codex, and with how GW is going about getting rid of rules for models that don't exist seems like it's going to have to be the option.

My only concern is the conversion idea I have in mind they will end up being a little smaller than a Trukk (maybe same size), do you think that would be too much of an issue for my opponent to accuse for modeling for Advantage? Granted they're going to be much taller then a standard Big Trakk so I hope that would negate the issue somewhat.

Big trakk is forge world unit so rules wouldn't be appearing in codex ANYWAY so rules aren't issue unless forge world drops the model AND rules from index.

Alas I'm not much of a scratch builder so they would end up looking just like cheap proxy rather than cool looking model. And frankly I suspect price wouldn't end up that much cheaper ANYWAY(something I noticed with terrain building. It looks way worse than official terrain but due to all the materials and failed attempts cost saving wasn't all that big after all...).

I should clarify, I was referring to looted wagons not being in the Codex not Big Trakk.

And thankfully a friend of mine is offering to build 3 custom ones for me because he has an awesome looking design for looted wagons, basically I would just be using the Big Trakk rules with the only concern being they won't be the size of the FW model, they will be smaller but definitely taller.

Ok well looted wagons aren't in index either I think? Or if they are the battlescribe has them missing and I have missed them big time while reading index!

But yeah they are super unlikely to be in codex :( But that's why ability to have biiiiig flamer would be good.

Wonder if I could make something workable out of battlewagon? Though here comes the price thing. Cheapest BW kit I can get(pre-built 2nd hand would be harder I think...) would be 42e. Saving of 34e. Yey. But then I need biiiig flamer etc and maybe some other kits. So saving doesn't end up THAT cheap after all...

Same reason btw why boyz+3rd party jump packs don't usually end up THAT much cheaper. Box of boyz(18.15e) + 10 jump packs=14e without postage(6e for pile of 90)=32e. Official stormboyz I get 10 for 31e...Yey...If I hadn't already got big pile of boyz I got cheaply this would be no-go basically.

Only reason big trakk from BW might end up cheaper is plastic vs resin and that's if I can get supa skorcha equilavent cheaply and how to avoid it being just flamer battlewagon...

edit: BTW ordered 60 jump packs of various styles. Looted jump packs! This gives me 2x30 and 1x25 stormboyz(I get one official pack so that the 5 guys at least fits the style). From now on local opponents can't trust to be facing either vehicle orks or slow foot slogging orks! Mwahahaha!

I think I also carefully repaint my original stormboyz. Problem is they are in what was supposed to be blood axe colours but just 1 unit of stormboyz for blood axe does not work with clan rules...I could repaint the camo parts in red and add yellow flames for evil sunz. Or do whole redo and go for other clan but what? To keep easy with existing clans and max 3 det's would have to be either bad moon(lol), goff(doable. Exploding 6's would help that small survivor unit also can make impact as these are often priority targets), deth skulls(6++ could be nice and depending on wording of reroll could be good to reroll advance or one charge dice without CP) or evil sunz(issue being T1 charge is super unreliable with these even with +3" from trait and T2 charges I find often working. If they get native deep strike would be better. For strategem I would rather not use unit I pay arm and teeth for jump pack I wouldn't use much!)

Goff would also give me access to the special character. Is he any good?

EDIT: Here's list I made up with the stormboyz(whenever they come) in use:

Bat 1:

warboss(relic, 6+++)
big mek w/kff
weirdboy w/da jump
2x10xgrot
30xgrot
25xgrot(dropped 5 grots to fit KFF)
runtherd
30xstormboyz(power klaw)
30xstormboyz(big choppa)
25xstormbouyz(power klaw)

Bat 2:

warboss(power klaw)
weirdboy(da jump)
30xboyz(power klaw)
30xboyz(power klaw)
30xboyz(big choppa)

Not sure with mix of shootas/choppas

3xKMK

So. KMK's have 5++. 3 units of stormboyz races ahead looking T2 charge. One unit of boyz da jumped per turn so on T2 minimum 4 mobs looking at charging in. With all those stormboyz I can hopefully also reach high places IF I CAN FIT(not possible in that game barring 1-2 models which wouldn't have helped me much) and if I can get ahead maybe prevent enemy skimmers getting in there first(if I go 1st might be worth it to da jump stormboyz there first...)

Maximum pressure soon. So faster version of what I had yesterday with less CP and less chaff and one less KMK.

Looks great, I'm hoping to eventually run something similar when the new codex is out

One possible criticism/idea: is it not better to have more KMKs and drop the mek? 4-5 KMKs is generally harder to kill than three with a 5++, with significantly greater damage output turn 1 if you do go first.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Looks great, I'm hoping to eventually run something similar when the new codex is out

One possible criticism/idea: is it not better to have more KMKs and drop the mek? 4-5 KMKs is generally harder to kill than three with a 5++, with significantly greater damage output turn 1 if you do go first.

Funny that you mentioned it. Originally list had 4 KMK(all models I have) but I opted to drop one and 5 grots and leftover points for big mek.

As is it was tradeoff between KMK and _4_(can't do 5) KMK. 3 KMK will take 22.5 wounds with KFF(and it gives always hope for more with extra dice Never count away psychological benefit of having chance to save the wound!) which is more wounds than 4 KMK have.

Albeit damage output IS better I'll give you that and certainly is an alternative. Dropping mek and adding KMK would leave me 33 pts to play with. Not much I can fit with that. Another runtherd or 11 grots(so 1 unit of 10 and extra grot to 25 strong).

On another subject with talk of big trakks with supa skorcha would battlewagon with front tyres replaced by another pair of tracks and no closed cockpit be any decent idea for conversion? Though I save just 20e or so per trakk due to bits store and that's if I don't need any OTHER purchases and get the battlewagons from UK(from FLGS forget it. Might just as well then get FW version). Stumped on supa-skorcha. Regular ones I can do I think from burna boyz bits. Needs to be impressive flamer though to justify 24" range.

Trukks with tank bustas might help a bit, since they draw fire from the KMK.
You could also field kannons, since they are only slightly less efficient than KMK and still hit -1 to hit vehicles on 5+. Just base some toy cannons that roughly match the size and add gretchin.
Last, the dakkajet is still somewhat efficient and can plonk wounds of the DE T6 vehicles, while being pretty durable themselves.

There is no silver bullet than you can use to fight back, any kill is going to be a concerted effort of multiple ork units working together. Or, in other words, "wait for the codex".

Here's what I did for a super skorcha on mine. Yeah fighting DE is tough right now, I still think combined arms is the way to go.

Looks amazing, love the weathering. Have you had many success stories with it?

padda_the_hutt wrote:
Looks amazing, love the weathering. Have you had many success stories with it?

a few, we ran it in the Adepticon Team Tourney this year with two skorchas, a super skorcha, a big mek with KFF, and 5 burnas in it.

The burnas predictably did very little but it was more for theme than effectiveness. It did manage to finish off a dred in overwatch however. Unlikely but very funny at the time.

Tempted to put nobs with skorchas in, or don’t want to make it a points sinkhole?

padda_the_hutt wrote:
Tempted to put nobs with skorchas in, or don’t want to make it a points sinkhole?

The only problem with putting Nobz with Skorchas in there is that it doesn't really leverage the 24" range of the big trakk to keep it out of trouble. Skorchas still have 8" range, I personally find that tankbustas are the perfect unit to transport. Both have 24" range, can target different units and it's extra durability gives it a nice halfway point between a trukk and a battlewagon.

Really it seems to come down to;

"You know what is fun? Moving 12" and firing 24" away."

"You know what kinda sucks? Moving 12" and having nobody to shoot at turn 1."

Yep, 5 tankbustas and a bomb squig are perfect for a supa-skorcha big trakks!

I have had great sucess with running 2 big trakk/Supeskorcha
and 5Tankbustas and bombsquig in each. those alone make a pretty good firebase. mix in some KMK and you got people worried. or surprised when you skorchas start melting marines from 24" away.

Nobs with skorchas seem to work better in chinork koptas anyway. you essentially have a 32" threat range as the chinork auto advances 24" and you get the 8" range from the kombi weapon. Heck, the chinork is cheaper than a trukk now too (it's also made of paper)

Giz green tides tactics pls.

I am willing to paint a lot of boyz

Field as many boyz as possible, add weird boyz, warboss/Thrakka and other characters (KFF mek, pain boy and Waaagh! Banner can be fielded or substituted by moar boyz) as you see fit. Add as many KMK as you can afford. Use those boyz to score as many VP as possible and hope the game ends before you are wiped out. Use Da Jump to score more points/keep your opponent in his deployment/tie up valuable targets in that order.

Killing stuff with boyz is secondary, it's more important to get VP.

 Jidmah wrote:
Field as many boyz as possible, add weird boyz, warboss/Thrakka and other characters (KFF mek, pain boy and Waaagh! Banner can be fielded or substituted by moar boyz) as you see fit. Add as many KMK as you can afford. Use those boyz to score as many VP as possible and hope the game ends before you are wiped out. Use Da Jump to score more points/keep your opponent in his deployment/tie up valuable targets in that order.

Killing stuff with boyz is secondary, it's more important to get VP.

''

Perfectly summarizing a thousand "Ork Tactics" posts

God I hope our codex gives us some different options!

Great, thanks for the summary

Do KMKs really work well in a green tide? I get their stats are very good. Can't help but think that they'd die pretty quickly due to being the only target for enemy anti tank...

How good is ghazghkull in a green tide? Worth his points or not? Not seen many people run him. Does he stack up well with just running multiple Warbosses?

Also any use for stormboyz or grots? They both looked good to me.

And is there a consensus on shootas vs sluggas? I guess sluggas for da jump but a battleline of shootas Boyz sounds like it'd give them another option for inflicting damage

 DoomMouse wrote:
Great, thanks for the summary

Do KMKs really work well in a green tide? I get their stats are very good. Can't help but think that they'd die pretty quickly due to being the only target for enemy anti tank...

It's unlikely that you lose all of them in a single turn. In addition, they are so point efficient that it doesn't matter, since lascannons shooting them are still wasted points. (42 points per KMK, a lascannon without someone holding it is 25, you need at least two shots)

How good is ghazghkull in a green tide? Worth his points or not? Not seen many people run him. Does he stack up well with just running multiple Warbosses?

He is the only model that can deal serious damage to vehicles due to his D3 klaw. The +1A aura also helps boyz grind through certain things with sheer weight of attacks, and he is no slower than any other warboss.
It really doesn't matter whether you field him or two warbosses though.

Also any use for stormboyz or grots? They both looked good to me.

Most top tier armies can delete 60+ boyz a turn. Bringing storm boyz only means the first 90 boyz you lose cost more points.
Gretchin need a warboss or runtherd to not lose massive amounts of model to moral, so bringing them instead of boyz doesn't work. A unit to block movement via da jump or a minimum unit or two to sit on objectives also work.

And is there a consensus on shootas vs sluggas? I guess sluggas for da jump but a battleline of shootas Boyz sounds like it'd give them another option for inflicting damage

You need to advance every turn, so shootas are worse than sluggas.
Shootas have some use on the unit you jump, in case you fail the charge you still did some damage with them.
Some people also have build their mobs to have 20 sluggas and 10 shootas and remove the shootas as casualties first. That way you can get the best of both worlds.

 Grimskul wrote:

padda_the_hutt wrote:
Tempted to put nobs with skorchas in, or don’t want to make it a points sinkhole?

The only problem with putting Nobz with Skorchas in there is that it doesn't really leverage the 24" range of the big trakk to keep it out of trouble. Skorchas still have 8" range, I personally find that tankbustas are the perfect unit to transport. Both have 24" range, can target different units and it's extra durability gives it a nice halfway point between a trukk and a battlewagon.

Weird alternative - what about throwing Baddrukk in there? He's also 24" range, has his H3 plasma with rerolls, and the 6 capacity holds him and his ammo runts nicely. T1 you don't supercharge and get to a good firing position, T2 and onward you sit still and fire BS4+ S8 Ap-3 3 damage shots with rerolls. Plus, he's cheaper (and probably more survivable?) than 6 tankbustas.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

padda_the_hutt wrote:
Tempted to put nobs with skorchas in, or don’t want to make it a points sinkhole?

The only problem with putting Nobz with Skorchas in there is that it doesn't really leverage the 24" range of the big trakk to keep it out of trouble. Skorchas still have 8" range, I personally find that tankbustas are the perfect unit to transport. Both have 24" range, can target different units and it's extra durability gives it a nice halfway point between a trukk and a battlewagon.

Weird alternative - what about throwing Baddrukk in there? He's also 24" range, has his H3 plasma with rerolls, and the 6 capacity holds him and his ammo runts nicely. T1 you don't supercharge and get to a good firing position, T2 and onward you sit still and fire BS4+ S8 Ap-3 3 damage shots with rerolls. Plus, he's cheaper (and probably more survivable?) than 6 tankbustas.

Unfortunately, if you're inside a vehicle you don't get to use the ammo runts re-rolls IRRC, since they're not on the actual table and thus unable to use their abilities (similar to how auras don't pop out of vehicles). So tankbustas would still be better. Interesting alternative though.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Great, thanks for the summary

Do KMKs really work well in a green tide? I get their stats are very good. Can't help but think that they'd die pretty quickly due to being the only target for enemy anti tank...

How good is ghazghkull in a green tide? Worth his points or not? Not seen many people run him. Does he stack up well with just running multiple Warbosses?

Also any use for stormboyz or grots? They both looked good to me.

And is there a consensus on shootas vs sluggas? I guess sluggas for da jump but a battleline of shootas Boyz sounds like it'd give them another option for inflicting damage

Most of the answers to these questions will change a lot in a couple of weeks...prepare to do a 180 if necessary.

 Grimskul wrote:
Unfortunately, if you're inside a vehicle you don't get to use the ammo runts re-rolls IRRC, since they're not on the actual table and thus unable to use their abilities (similar to how auras don't pop out of vehicles). So tankbustas would still be better. Interesting alternative though.

Ammo runts work perfectly fine inside transports. The only abilities that do not work from inside transport are those that require you to measure to or from the embarked model or those which require the model to be on the table. Ammo runt are neither.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Unfortunately, if you're inside a vehicle you don't get to use the ammo runts re-rolls IRRC, since they're not on the actual table and thus unable to use their abilities (similar to how auras don't pop out of vehicles). So tankbustas would still be better. Interesting alternative though.

Ammo runts work perfectly fine inside transports. The only abilities that do not work from inside transport are those that require you to measure to or from the embarked model or those which require the model to be on the table. Ammo runt are neither.

Awesome, this was my reading of it too, glad I've been playing it right. Was worried for a second.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Unfortunately, if you're inside a vehicle you don't get to use the ammo runts re-rolls IRRC, since they're not on the actual table and thus unable to use their abilities (similar to how auras don't pop out of vehicles). So tankbustas would still be better. Interesting alternative though.

Ammo runts work perfectly fine inside transports. The only abilities that do not work from inside transport are those that require you to measure to or from the embarked model or those which require the model to be on the table. Ammo runt are neither.

Whoops, must have misread that part of the FAQ then. Glad to hear I was wrong!

What are the odds that burna-boyz will be worth taking with the new codex drop? I really want to make an Ork fire-trukk (fire-trakk?)

Coh Magnussen wrote:
What are the odds that burna-boyz will be worth taking with the new codex drop? I really want to make an Ork fire-trukk (fire-trakk?)

Nobody knows, of course, but probably marginal. I don't see us getting D6 hits like everybody else, just because orks are supposed to miss, even with a flamethrower...go figure.

At d3 hits (and including the cost of the trukk) they only become strong at something like zero points.

There is chance that they get the stratagem from KillTeam which makes them d6 for a turn.

Currently they are around as effective at shooting as shootaboyz but have less than half the range. And around the same at chopping. Worse vs 3+, better vs 2+. Of course, they are more than 2 times worse at taking damage.
Theoretically, they can be used as concentrated shootaboyz in trukks. It's like running x2 shootaboyz that cost 7 ppm. The problem is it's not very good due to trukk's cost...and their cost too. Besides, they don't really have a role other than just being there. You're just better off paying a few more points and taking tankbustas. They'll kill tanks and will only deal around 35% less damage to meq. But from 24 away instead of 8.

Now if you want burnas, you can run them in kommando squads. Currently you get 2 free burnas per squad.