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Pls quote a kff rule

Found it:

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit is within.

Kustom Force Field: If this model is equipped with a kustom force field, friendly ORK units that are entirely within 9" have a 5+ invulnerable save against ranged weapons. If the Big Mek is embarked, the vehicle transporting it has a 5+ invulnerable save against ranged weapons instead.

[img]Regarding wholly within. I think they changed rules for deployment zones to wholly within in one of the more recent updates. So i dont think it's reasonable to claim som3 models being within is good enough for the unit to be wholly within anymore...

Its in rulebook official update 1.3. On reference to deployment. If models could be partially within deployment zones that would be madness. In the picture its only for one scenario but there are similar erratas on the other missions too later in the document

I might be making this up, but I think the type of within GW uses to describe units counting as being in cover is entirely within. Meaning every model in the unit is at least partially on whatever is granting the cover. Wholly within I've always played as every single model has to be completely within

PiñaColada wrote:
I might be making this up, but I think the type of within GW uses to describe units counting as being in cover is entirely within. Meaning every model in the unit is at least partially on whatever is granting the cover. Wholly within I've always played as every single model has to be completely within

Cover also has a clarification in the updates/faq that specifies models partially within qualifies. Language wise "wholly" and "entirely" are synonyms so I would not take them as separate in the GW rules.

Gitdakka wrote:
[img]Regarding wholly within. I think they changed rules for deployment zones to wholly within in one of the more recent updates. So i dont think it's reasonable to claim som3 models being within is good enough for the unit to be wholly within anymore...

Its in rulebook official update 1.3. On reference to deployment. If models could be partially within deployment zones that would be madness. In the picture its only for one scenario but there are similar erratas on the other missions too later in the document

Setting up stuff within a deployment zone is not the same as measuring if something is within 9" of something. The FAQ I quoted is from the current rulebook FAQ and it clearly states that the every member of the unit only needs to be within 9" rather than wholly within 9".

Gitdakka wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
I might be making this up, but I think the type of within GW uses to describe units counting as being in cover is entirely within. Meaning every model in the unit is at least partially on whatever is granting the cover. Wholly within I've always played as every single model has to be completely within

Cover also has a clarification in the updates/faq that specifies models partially within qualifies. Language wise "wholly" and "entirely" are synonyms so I would not take them as separate in the GW rules.

Yes, they are synonyms so logically speaking there should be no distinction. Yet, and this is just an example I found in 2 minutes, look at the Imperial Knights codex page. 101. The infamous sacristian forgeshrine. One of the blurbs state "INFANTRY units that are entirely on a Sector Mechanicus structure receive the bonus to their armour saves for being in cover (other units that are entirely on the structure only receive this bonus if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting unit)"

Entirely I don't think I've seen GW use that phrase except for describing cover and I really do think they believe there's a distinction between entirely and wholly.

Ok, new tellyporta stratagem with a unit of 2 Deff Dreads. Thoughts?

From the new Goffs article:
"... With their ’Ere We Go ability enabling you to re-roll either one or both of the dice when making your charge roll, you stand a great chance of getting this deadly unit stuck in as soon as they arrive."

One or both, thats new right?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/22/oct-22-clan-fokus-goffsgw-homepage-post-2/

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok, new tellyporta stratagem with a unit of 2 Deff Dreads. Thoughts?

Assuming Dreads can still be taken in squads, and that they're still less than 10 PL each... could be interesting. But if they don't get a buff to charge rolls, they'll end up just being a big target on the turn they deepstrike. A pretty nasty thing to have deepstrike behind someone's army though.

Dreads did used to get ''ere we go' though, which may have been buffed to allow you to choose one or both dice for the reroll, which might well be enough. That's if that wasn't a typo. If so... could be good, if dreads had their points fixed as well. Exciting stuff for sure.

Another option is a battlewagon filled with a unit of your choice, as long as it totals less than 20pl. Big old tellyporta drop.

Tankbustas might be another good option. No longer needing a Trukk tax to get them into range to actually do anything, you can just have them be the Ork equivalent of plasma Scions and have them drop in and destroy something whenever you with.

Certainly some options in there.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok, new tellyporta stratagem with a unit of 2 Deff Dreads. Thoughts?

Thoughts? "Smash!"

I had a list of things that fit inside 20 PL in one of the rumor threads. Since they claim that 10 MANz fit inside 20 PL, it's safe bet that any unit that's not a stompa can use it.

I don't think it matters what the power level of the unit inside the transport is, you simply select a transport less than 20PL and it can deepstrike, taking the unit inside with it.

Tellyporting trukks and wagonz full of goodies. Hmmm seems like my meganobz might find a place now.

I'm wondering about the Mega Nobs points drop.
Kinda thinking it would be cool to field 10 or 20 of them again. But looking for a way to stack the tellyporta with mob up on say 20 of them in total 10 on the table and 10 in the tellyporta. so the question is how do I get 10 mega nobs up the table and closer than 9 inches for an easy charge... Can you imagine...

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm wondering about the Mega Nobs points drop.
Kinda thinking it would be cool to field 10 or 20 of them again. But looking for a way to stack the tellyporta with mob up on say 20 of them in total 10 on the table and 10 in the tellyporta. so the question is how do I get 10 mega nobs up the table and closer than 9 inches for an easy charge... Can you imagine...

Or why not 2x10 on the table. Mob up. Warpath and da jump from wierdboys. Then profit?

xlDuke wrote:

Spoiler:

Niiru wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok, new tellyporta stratagem with a unit of 2 Deff Dreads. Thoughts?

Assuming Dreads can still be taken in squads, and that they're still less than 10 PL each... could be interesting. But if they don't get a buff to charge rolls, they'll end up just being a big target on the turn they deepstrike. A pretty nasty thing to have deepstrike behind someone's army though.

Dreads did used to get ''ere we go' though, which may have been buffed to allow you to choose one or both dice for the reroll, which might well be enough. That's if that wasn't a typo. If so... could be good, if dreads had their points fixed as well. Exciting stuff for sure.

Another option is a battlewagon filled with a unit of your choice, as long as it totals less than 20pl. Big old tellyporta drop.

Tankbustas might be another good option. No longer needing a Trukk tax to get them into range to actually do anything, you can just have them be the Ork equivalent of plasma Scions and have them drop in and destroy something whenever you with.

Certainly some options in there.

I don't think it matters what the power level of the unit inside the transport is, you simply select a transport less than 20PL and it can deepstrike, taking the unit inside with it.

hmmmm...i can see this being faq'd very quickly. I suspect the rai is that the combined PL has to be under 20. The stratagem doesnt specify, it just says "an ORK unit".

Otherwise you could take a Battlewagon (11PL) carrying 10 MANZ (31PL) for a total of 41PL in the tellyporta.

HOWEVER

The article says that a full squad of 10 MANZ is now able to be tellyported. Which means that their full power level must be 20 (or less).
Which is a HUGE reduction in cost from the index. Like 35 points each, instead of 50 points each (if PL equated to points, which it doesn't but still).

Gitdakka wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm wondering about the Mega Nobs points drop.
Kinda thinking it would be cool to field 10 or 20 of them again. But looking for a way to stack the tellyporta with mob up on say 20 of them in total 10 on the table and 10 in the tellyporta. so the question is how do I get 10 mega nobs up the table and closer than 9 inches for an easy charge... Can you imagine...

Or why not 2x10 on the table. Mob up. Warpath and da jump from wierdboys. Then profit?

Haha. Well, my only reason is so I can put half of them closer than 9 inches to enemy units of an easy charge distance..

I'm assuming the Tellyporta tactic is still going to be limited to second turn drop?

Shrapnelbait wrote:
I'm assuming the Tellyporta tactic is still going to be limited to second turn drop?

Since it's a rule in the BRB and nothing in our rule says otherwise, yes, it's limited to turn two. Still, dropping in a squad of MANz or even a goddam Gorkanaut into your opponent's backfield is pretty damn powerful. It gives us an option that we lacked outside of kommandoes.

Niiru wrote:

xlDuke wrote:

Spoiler:

Niiru wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok, new tellyporta stratagem with a unit of 2 Deff Dreads. Thoughts?

Assuming Dreads can still be taken in squads, and that they're still less than 10 PL each... could be interesting. But if they don't get a buff to charge rolls, they'll end up just being a big target on the turn they deepstrike. A pretty nasty thing to have deepstrike behind someone's army though.

Dreads did used to get ''ere we go' though, which may have been buffed to allow you to choose one or both dice for the reroll, which might well be enough. That's if that wasn't a typo. If so... could be good, if dreads had their points fixed as well. Exciting stuff for sure.

Another option is a battlewagon filled with a unit of your choice, as long as it totals less than 20pl. Big old tellyporta drop.

Tankbustas might be another good option. No longer needing a Trukk tax to get them into range to actually do anything, you can just have them be the Ork equivalent of plasma Scions and have them drop in and destroy something whenever you with.

Certainly some options in there.

I don't think it matters what the power level of the unit inside the transport is, you simply select a transport less than 20PL and it can deepstrike, taking the unit inside with it.

hmmmm...i can see this being faq'd very quickly. I suspect the rai is that the combined PL has to be under 20. The stratagem doesnt specify, it just says "an ORK unit".

Otherwise you could take a Battlewagon (11PL) carrying 10 MANZ (31PL) for a total of 41PL in the tellyporta.

HOWEVER

The article says that a full squad of 10 MANZ is now able to be tellyported. Which means that their full power level must be 20 (or less).
Which is a HUGE reduction in cost from the index. Like 35 points each, instead of 50 points each (if PL equated to points, which it doesn't but still).

It does specifically say if you use it on a transport, everything inside goes with it. That does seem a little OP though. Dropping a 'Naut with 3 manz inside would definitely give me pause.
What if you dropped 6 KMKs in good firing pattern instead of hoping for a good setup from your opponent as well as not worrying about them being shot off the board in turn 1?

So Kommando's have an built-in deepstrike rule right? Do people use a minimum squad just to grab an objective? I've mainly seen them discussed as a big speed bump for enemy armies.

You know, I've been doing some quick mathammer with our new buggies, and with the exception of the dragsta (and the scrapjet since we don't know all its guns yet)... they all kind of suck? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but each buggy is doing like one to three wounds on average firing all of their guns vs MEQ, not even bothering with TEQ.

Unless these come with some sort of stratagem that buffs the hell out of them, what are they supposed to do?

Shrapnelbait wrote:

Niiru wrote:

xlDuke wrote:

Spoiler:

Niiru wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok, new tellyporta stratagem with a unit of 2 Deff Dreads. Thoughts?

Assuming Dreads can still be taken in squads, and that they're still less than 10 PL each... could be interesting. But if they don't get a buff to charge rolls, they'll end up just being a big target on the turn they deepstrike. A pretty nasty thing to have deepstrike behind someone's army though.

Dreads did used to get ''ere we go' though, which may have been buffed to allow you to choose one or both dice for the reroll, which might well be enough. That's if that wasn't a typo. If so... could be good, if dreads had their points fixed as well. Exciting stuff for sure.

Another option is a battlewagon filled with a unit of your choice, as long as it totals less than 20pl. Big old tellyporta drop.

Tankbustas might be another good option. No longer needing a Trukk tax to get them into range to actually do anything, you can just have them be the Ork equivalent of plasma Scions and have them drop in and destroy something whenever you with.

Certainly some options in there.

I don't think it matters what the power level of the unit inside the transport is, you simply select a transport less than 20PL and it can deepstrike, taking the unit inside with it.

hmmmm...i can see this being faq'd very quickly. I suspect the rai is that the combined PL has to be under 20. The stratagem doesnt specify, it just says "an ORK unit".

Otherwise you could take a Battlewagon (11PL) carrying 10 MANZ (31PL) for a total of 41PL in the tellyporta.

HOWEVER

The article says that a full squad of 10 MANZ is now able to be tellyported. Which means that their full power level must be 20 (or less).
Which is a HUGE reduction in cost from the index. Like 35 points each, instead of 50 points each (if PL equated to points, which it doesn't but still).

It does specifically say if you use it on a transport, everything inside goes with it. That does seem a little OP though. Dropping a 'Naut with 3 manz inside would definitely give me pause.
What if you dropped 6 KMKs in good firing pattern instead of hoping for a good setup from your opponent as well as not worrying about them being shot off the board in turn 1?

Yes, it specifically says about transports being able to deepstrike with units inside, which is fine, but it doesn't really imply either way whether or not they intend the PL to be inflated to above 20.

Otherwise... is there even any transports that are over 20PL other than the Stompa? They could have just made the stratagem "can teleport any unit other than the stompa" and not bothered with a PL limit, especially as they seem to be dropping the maxed out MANZ squad to less than 20PL anyway.

Although, Gork/Mork are 18 and 19PL at the moment, so that would mean it would be difficult to put any units inside them to teleport. But then that would be a decent way to balance the stratagem, making it so that you could deepstrike a morkanaut but that means you can't transport a unit with it. SO you'd have to make a choice between teleport and transport.


HOWEVER
The stratagem isn't your usual Webway Strike 1/3 CP for 1-2 units.
Or the Daemon strat that is 1CP for less than 8PL and 2CP for more.
It's 2CP per unit, no matter the size. So it's a bit rubbish for cheaper units, but great for the big expensive ones.

So it does seem like it's designed for things like trukks full of nobz, or wagons. I'm just not sure if a wagon filled with MANZ is pushing things a bit. Would be fun though.

Niiru wrote:

Although, Gork/Mork are 18 and 19PL at the moment, so that would mean it would be difficult to put any units inside them to teleport. But then that would be a decent way to balance the stratagem, making it so that you could deepstrike a morkanaut but that means you can't transport a unit with it. SO you'd have to make a choice between teleport and transport.

Morkanaut actually got lowered to 15 PL including the KFF so there's still plenty you can stuff in there.

It's sounding like Orks are gonna be a sort of Shenaniganz Maneuverability army- at least Evil Sunz lists are. Not the toughest, not the most damaging, but able to hop from one side of the board to the other unpredictably.

The forgeworld gargantuan squiggoth is also above 20PL (21pl) and a transport....
The 20PL is specific and seems to be done to prevent those 2 units. (And kustom stompa; so technically 3 units)

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
You know, I've been doing some quick mathammer with our new buggies, and with the exception of the dragsta (and the scrapjet since we don't know all its guns yet)... they all kind of suck? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but each buggy is doing like one to three wounds on average firing all of their guns vs MEQ, not even bothering with TEQ.

Unless these come with some sort of stratagem that buffs the hell out of them, what are they supposed to do?

The shokkjump definitely seems to be more anti-vehicle rather than anti-MEQ, although it might be good for hitting/killing stuff like Inceptors or Nid warriors. With the jump it may be able to close with backfield artillery too. Other than that though, you may have a good point.

Are people still using deep strike stratagems / abilities now with the first turn faqed restrictions?

gungo wrote:
The forgeworld gargantuan squiggoth is also above 20PL (21pl) and a transport....
The 20PL is specific and seems to be done to prevent those 2 units. (And kustom stompa; so technically 3 units)

It also prevents 3 deff dreads, unless their PL drops below 7.

Actually, this is a future proof blocker for super-heavies, if FW ever gets around to making new ork kits.

 Jidmah wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
[img]Regarding wholly within. I think they changed rules for deployment zones to wholly within in one of the more recent updates. So i dont think it's reasonable to claim som3 models being within is good enough for the unit to be wholly within anymore...

Its in rulebook official update 1.3. On reference to deployment. If models could be partially within deployment zones that would be madness. In the picture its only for one scenario but there are similar erratas on the other missions too later in the document

Setting up stuff within a deployment zone is not the same as measuring if something is within 9" of something. The FAQ I quoted is from the current rulebook FAQ and it clearly states that the every member of the unit only needs to be within 9" rather than wholly within 9".

If even part of your unit is outside 9", even if that's part of base or part of vehicle in case of unit of 1, that's no KFF bonus for you. Of course flip side to this thing is that stompa has shooting point 11" upside so will shoot even past knight height LOS blocking.