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Thought of a combo that could be great for Goffs. Mob up twomobs to make a 40boys squad. Skarboyz strat for S5 da jump them and Telly port Ghaz near them to buff with additional attack. 150 S5 attacks will hurt a lot.

Back to that tellyporta. I'm thinking of another way to help it.
So one issue we will have, as usual, is screens. I'm thinking to jump 40 boys turn one to form a large ring so that on turn two my tellyporta unit can land in that ring. I haven't put very much into thinking about this just yet. But it could be key against another large model count army. stack that with other small fast units flooding he enemy fire control encouraging them to make, hopefully, the wrong choices. I guess my next thought on this is could I do this with 40 grots instead of 40 boys.


I like that dead shinny shoota!

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
[img]Regarding wholly within. I think they changed rules for deployment zones to wholly within in one of the more recent updates. So i dont think it's reasonable to claim som3 models being within is good enough for the unit to be wholly within anymore...

Its in rulebook official update 1.3. On reference to deployment. If models could be partially within deployment zones that would be madness. In the picture its only for one scenario but there are similar erratas on the other missions too later in the document

Setting up stuff within a deployment zone is not the same as measuring if something is within 9" of something. The FAQ I quoted is from the current rulebook FAQ and it clearly states that the every member of the unit only needs to be within 9" rather than wholly within 9".

If even part of your unit is outside 9", even if that's part of base or part of vehicle in case of unit of 1, that's no KFF bonus for you. Of course flip side to this thing is that stompa has shooting point 11" upside so will shoot even past knight height LOS blocking.

If thats the case why not just say models wholly within. Why even make the distinction.

tneva82 wrote:
If even part of your unit is outside 9", even if that's part of base or part of vehicle in case of unit of 1, that's no KFF bonus for you. Of course flip side to this thing is that stompa has shooting point 11" upside so will shoot even past knight height LOS blocking.

Please refer to the quote where I proved you wrong.

 Hades wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
[img]Regarding wholly within. I think they changed rules for deployment zones to wholly within in one of the more recent updates. So i dont think it's reasonable to claim som3 models being within is good enough for the unit to be wholly within anymore...

Its in rulebook official update 1.3. On reference to deployment. If models could be partially within deployment zones that would be madness. In the picture its only for one scenario but there are similar erratas on the other missions too later in the document

Setting up stuff within a deployment zone is not the same as measuring if something is within 9" of something. The FAQ I quoted is from the current rulebook FAQ and it clearly states that the every member of the unit only needs to be within 9" rather than wholly within 9".

If even part of your unit is outside 9", even if that's part of base or part of vehicle in case of unit of 1, that's no KFF bonus for you. Of course flip side to this thing is that stompa has shooting point 11" upside so will shoot even past knight height LOS blocking.

If thats the case why not just say models wholly within. Why even make the distinction.

There's a very distinct difference between wholly (entirely) within and just within. Say if you could only attack in melee with models that a wholly within 1". Any model with a base larger than 1" could never attack.

Anyway, KFF explicitly says entirely within.

A unit is entirely within 9" if every single member of the unit is within 9". Being within 9" is defined in the rulebook.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that every single model of a unit needs to be wholly or entirely within 9", especially since GW's clarifications on "wholly within" says the opposite.

 Jidmah wrote:
Found it:

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit is within.

Kustom Force Field: If this model is equipped with a kustom force field, friendly ORK units that are entirely within 9" have a 5+ invulnerable save against ranged weapons. If the Big Mek is embarked, the vehicle transporting it has a 5+ invulnerable save against ranged weapons instead.

You conveniently left out the word "model" which I assume indicates a single model unit.

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.

I don't know really, I guess you could interpret that either way, but why mention "model" at all? Just makes it more confusing.

Because there are rules that care whether models are entirely within of something and there are rules which care whether there are units entirely within. KFF is the later.

what are we arguing about this for? it's simple. "wholly/entirely within", means bloody wholly/entirely within, as in every part of the model/unit..."within", means some part of the model/unit has to be within, aka, not "wholly/entirely"...sheesh.

edit: and if it reallllly needed to be clarified, obviously if a unit is required to be wholly/entirely within a distance, that would imply that every part of every model in said unit is required to be wholly/entirely within said distance.

I guess just imagine how a sphere of force would really work. wont help your bum if your bum is sticking out.

 ZoBo wrote:
what are we arguing about this for? it's simple. "wholly/entirely within", means bloody wholly/entirely within, as in every part of the model/unit..."within", means some part of the model/unit has to be within, aka, not "wholly/entirely"...sheesh.

edit: and if it reallllly needed to be clarified, obviously if a unit is required to be wholly/entirely within a distance, that would imply that every part of every model in said unit is required to be wholly/entirely within said distance.

If a model needs to be wholly within, does the model need to be wholly within or just its base?

 Jidmah wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
what are we arguing about this for? it's simple. "wholly/entirely within", means bloody wholly/entirely within, as in every part of the model/unit..."within", means some part of the model/unit has to be within, aka, not "wholly/entirely"...sheesh.

edit: and if it reallllly needed to be clarified, obviously if a unit is required to be wholly/entirely within a distance, that would imply that every part of every model in said unit is required to be wholly/entirely within said distance.

If a model needs to be wholly within, does the model need to be wholly within or just its base?

I'm not sure there's any precedent for a rule which takes into account the 3D space of a model. Everything tends to be "to the base".

Because otherwise, if you had a KFF on top of a hill, it's bubble of effect would be... weird to track.

I think it's generally played as the base, as all measurements are done to/from bases. There may be a ruling somewhere though that goes against it.

This was all argued and clarified before.
Wholly within for kff is unit based.
So a stompa with its base partly inside means the unit is wholly within.
A squad of boys with all but 1 model inside means the unit is NOT wholly within.

That’s pretty much how every tournament plays it and GW clarified it. Feel free to argue amongst yourselves on your interpretation.

Quick question about when to use the Gorkanauts different Klaw profiles. most of the time its pretty obvious, but which should be used against something with high wounds and an invul?

Im thinking something like a flyrant that has 3+/4++ and 12 wounds. Any opinions? Im kinda leaning towards the more attacks flat 2 damage.

 Billagio wrote:
Quick question about when to use the Gorkanauts different Klaw profiles. most of the time its pretty obvious, but which should be used against something with high wounds and an invul?

Im thinking something like a flyrant that has 3+/4++ and 12 wounds. Any opinions? Im kinda leaning towards the more attacks flat 2 damage.

Usually the default answer is to go for more attacks over stronger attacks, because at least then you will have a better chance of doing SOME damage. The stronger attacks may have a higher ceiling, but also has a better chance of doing nothing at all.

However in this specific situation, someone will have to mathhammer it. You can even plug the numbers in yourself if you want. I may do it now just for the sake of curiosity.

But yeh, if you don't know the answer and you're in a game so no time to calculate it, I think the "more attacks the merrier" is often the best to go for. Ork Smash yo.

Edit :

Crush (4 attacks S16) = 3.8 damage
Smash (12 attack S8) = 5.3 damage

So yes, more attacks the better. This seems to be true against all targets though... Only time they draw pretty even seems to be against T8 targets, with a gap between saves (such as a 2+/5++), where the Crush gains ground because of the AP.

Maybe if you had the ability to re-roll misses or wounds it would help too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The new psychic powers are pretty interesting.

Fists of Gork is just Diabolic Strength (already one of the better Chaos powers), except twice as good. Can't really complain about getting a better version of a strong power.

Da Krunch is... going to depend a bit on numbers I assume. But if your opponent has fielded a big unit of something (see bloodletter bomb), and you save a CP for a command reroll on the 2D6, you could end up putting a few wounds down. Think it works out better than smite in that situation.

Da Krunch is just an odd power
Rarely do you have swarm type units that require mortal wounds to kill... tzeentch horror spam???

If I was really worried about swarm units the snakebite bomb probably does a better job w auto hitting 3d6 str5 -1ap atks with another 2d6 hits in another unit....

But honestly our best way to deal with swarms is weight of atks, not to say Da Krunch isn’t a nice way to weaken them up, but I’d probably memorize another more versatile power.

gungo wrote:
Da Krunch is just an odd power
Rarely do you have swarm type units that require mortal wounds to kill... tzeentch horror spam???

If I was really worried about swarm units the snakebite bomb probably does a better job w auto hitting 3d6 str5 -1ap atks with another 2d6 hits in another unit....

But honestly our best way to deal with swarms is weight of atks, not to say Da Krunch isn’t a nice way to weaken them up, but I’d probably memorize another more versatile power.

Depends on what you have on the table. One weirdboy? You'd stick with the force multiplier powers. Da Jump probably, and we shall see what the new ones are.

3 Weirdboys? Well then maybe you'll find space for it, depending on opponent.

Especially if Orks get some more options in line with all the other armies, such as a Psyker HQ character (Zogwort ftw), or a psyker who can take 2 powers instead of just the 1. Here's hoping.

Niiru wrote:

gungo wrote:
Da Krunch is just an odd power
Rarely do you have swarm type units that require mortal wounds to kill... tzeentch horror spam???

If I was really worried about swarm units the snakebite bomb probably does a better job w auto hitting 3d6 str5 -1ap atks with another 2d6 hits in another unit....

But honestly our best way to deal with swarms is weight of atks, not to say Da Krunch isn’t a nice way to weaken them up, but I’d probably memorize another more versatile power.

Depends on what you have on the table. One weirdboy? You'd stick with the force multiplier powers. Da Jump probably, and we shall see what the new ones are.

3 Weirdboys? Well then maybe you'll find space for it, depending on opponent.

Especially if Orks get some more options in line with all the other armies, such as a Psyker HQ character (Zogwort ftw), or a psyker who can take 2 powers instead of just the 1. Here's hoping.

Agreed, it would be nice to maybe buy a second psychic power like we could with warphead in older editions.

Love it when people make great claims of 150! Attacks in CC. As if you would ever get every single Ork boy into CC (while getting no casualties either).

It's not like Guard shooting. There's no way in Hell you get every single boy in cc to get maximum attacks.

This isn't to anyone in particular, just a general gripe with every Ork tactics discussion.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Love it when people make great claims of 150! Attacks in CC. As if you would ever get everything keys boy into CC.

It's not like Guard shooting. There's no way in Hell you get every single boy in cc to get maximum attacks.

This isn't to anyone in particular, just a general gripe with every Ork tactics discussion.

Well that's the main issue with armchair generals on forums, everyone tends to assume "in-a-vacuum" situations that don't often happen in real games. It leads to both extremes of assuming things are OP or complete garbage, it's rare for people to have a consensus on things being more in-between.

Personally, I'm disappointed to see that it doesn't seem there's any relics that give us invulns in CC, meaning that badmoonz warlord trait with the supa cybork is going to be our only tanky build for a warboss. Also, I'm kinda surprised there's no Mega Kustom Force Field relic, as I'd prefer that over the fixer upperz that the Deffskullz have.

While I would love to have it, it probably wouldn't be the healthiest thing for the game if we could have a bunch of 4++ boyz, so I can understand no KFF relic.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
While I would love to have it, it probably wouldn't be the healthiest thing for the game if we could have a bunch of 4++ boyz, so I can understand no KFF relic.

I could see them lowering the range bubble to 6" instead, and it's easy to forget that it doesn't work in CC. Given that you only have one of it, I don't see it as that ridiculous.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Love it when people make great claims of 150! Attacks in CC. As if you would ever get everything keys boy into CC.

It's not like Guard shooting. There's no way in Hell you get every single boy in cc to get maximum attacks.

This isn't to anyone in particular, just a general gripe with every Ork tactics discussion.

Well that's the main issue with armchair generals on forums, everyone tends to assume "in-a-vacuum" situations that don't often happen in real games. It leads to both extremes of assuming things are OP or complete garbage, it's rare for people to have a consensus on things being more in-between.

Personally, I'm disappointed to see that it doesn't seem there's any relics that give us invulns in CC, meaning that badmoonz warlord trait with the supa cybork is going to be our only tanky build for a warboss. Also, I'm kinda surprised there's no Mega Kustom Force Field relic, as I'd prefer that over the fixer upperz that the Deffskullz have.

Wait, the relics have been leaked/released? I've not seen anything on here or whcomm

Niiru wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Love it when people make great claims of 150! Attacks in CC. As if you would ever get everything keys boy into CC.

It's not like Guard shooting. There's no way in Hell you get every single boy in cc to get maximum attacks.

This isn't to anyone in particular, just a general gripe with every Ork tactics discussion.

Well that's the main issue with armchair generals on forums, everyone tends to assume "in-a-vacuum" situations that don't often happen in real games. It leads to both extremes of assuming things are OP or complete garbage, it's rare for people to have a consensus on things being more in-between.

Personally, I'm disappointed to see that it doesn't seem there's any relics that give us invulns in CC, meaning that badmoonz warlord trait with the supa cybork is going to be our only tanky build for a warboss. Also, I'm kinda surprised there's no Mega Kustom Force Field relic, as I'd prefer that over the fixer upperz that the Deffskullz have.

Wait, the relics have been leaked/released? I've not seen anything on here or whcomm

Not on warhammer community, it was leaked via a youtuber. The list is as follows:

Universal RELICS

Da Dead Shiny Shoota: Replace shoot/kustom shoota/kombi shoota: RNG 18" Assault 12 S4 AP -1 DMG 1

Headwoppas Killchoppa: Replace big choppa; S+2 AP -2 DMG 2, inflict 2 mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6+ instead of normal damage.

Super Cybork Body; 5+ to ignore wounds. No dok Tools can effect this model

Da Killa Klaw; replace power klaw, Sx2 AP -3 DMG 3 reroll wounds

Scorched Gitbonez - Psyker only, Add 1 to psychic tests

Git Stoppa Shells. Model with Kustom Shoota, Kombi Shoot, +1 to Strength and Damage, Improve AP by 1.

Klan Relics

GOFFS Da Lucky Stick, replace a banner - +1 to hit rolls with in 6", reroll hit and damage rolls for the bearer (re rolling damage for a banner nob is currently pointless so the banner mob datasheet must be changing a bit)

BLOOD AXES Morgogs finkin cap, gain another warlord trait, if not your warlord gain a warlord trait but cant be the same as the warlords.

EVIL SUNS Rezmekkas, redder armour- +1 to the transport movement the bearer is embarked in. Start of the movement phase roll a D6 for all enemies within 1" of the transport, on a 4+ deal D3 mortal wounds.

BAD MOONS da gobshot thunderbuss; replace shoota, kustom shoota, kombi shoota. RANGE 12", HEAVY 2D6 S5 AP-1 DMG 1, auto hits.

DEATH SKULLS da fixxer upperz, gains the mekaniak ability, if it already has it then the ability auto heals 3 wounds.

SNAKEBITE Broggs Buzzbomb, GRENADE RANGE 6", grenade 3d6 S5 AP -1 DMG 1 , auto hits, one use only. When it hits resolve 2D6 attacks on an enemy unit 6" within the target unit.

FREEBOOTERS Da Badskull Banner, once per battle use. all freebooters become immune to morale for a turn

OK...how about this?

Goff Trike boss with +1S +1A warlord trait and DLS, and powered by FOG weirdboy.

8 attacks at WS2+ with rerolls and exploding 6s, wound at S10 with rerolls, does D3 dam each with...wait for it...rerolls.

somebody check me on this?

Wow havent seen a lineup of relics that bad since craftworlds codex.

 Hades wrote:
Wow havent seen a lineup of relics that bad since craftworlds codex.

While I wouldn't say all of them are hits, for the most part I think they're decent. The supa cybork body gives us something to fall back on for a tanky Warboss build, the Killa Klaw is a clear winner from how It not only has a flat 3 damage and re-roll wounds ability, but presumably no -1 to hit. Combine that with a Fists of Gork buff from a weirdboy, and you got a potential 6 S16 Damage 3 attacks that hit and wound most things on a 2+. Da Dead Shiny Shoota is actually decent on a Bad Moonz character and the Bad Moonz relic isn't bad considering you effectively a 12" twin-linked skorcha. I don't mind that we don't have any crazy CP regen relics given that it's been nerfed from the recent Big FAQ anyways, and as far as I remember, we have one tied to the Blood Axe Warlord trait.

 Hades wrote:
Wow havent seen a lineup of relics that bad since craftworlds codex.

Don't know what you're talking about; this is one of the best relic lists we've seen imo.

gungo wrote:
Da Krunch is just an odd power
Rarely do you have swarm type units that require mortal wounds to kill... tzeentch horror spam???

If I was really worried about swarm units the snakebite bomb probably does a better job w auto hitting 3d6 str5 -1ap atks with another 2d6 hits in another unit....

But honestly our best way to deal with swarms is weight of atks, not to say Da Krunch isn’t a nice way to weaken them up, but I’d probably memorize another more versatile power.

DG has a similar power (plague wind) and you regularly see it taken on Mortarion himself. It's basically a power you use against units that would take more damage from it than from smite.

Smite does 2 wounds on average, so any unit with numbers higher than 12 is a good target for that power. I'd only ever take it on warphead #2 or #3, just like I'd never take plague wind it on my only psyker in a DG army. Mortarion has 3 powers but can cast only 2, so plague wind is usually take on him to help him clear horde units. No matter how big the scythe is, it cannot kill more than 18 gretchin a turn.

See, recently people have become less afraid of the standard warboss. before however even if it wasnt warranted people just seemed to have a deep seated fear about warbosses. Now its quite possible that the bosses can put the fear back into people. Some of the potential combos make for a dead killy boss i think.

Now my main concern is what they will do to Ghazzy to make him relevant. Cuz at this point hes not really worth the point difference outside walking him with a few squad of boyz.