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RedNoak wrote:
komandoz. got cheaper can take burnas. either drop em as MSU's T2 from reserve or teleport a big blob of em T1

+1 to wound if enemy is in cover

+1 to wound vs cover comes less in play in the presumable scenario he was wondering that is stuff is in 2nd floor. 1st floor isn't issue. Shooting sucks anyway so cover isn't big deal so just go and hack them to pieces. Problem comes with 2nd level hiders who have 1++(with no 1 always fail) vs h2h thanks to GW making it so hard to even legally assault upper floors. +1 to wound doesn't help if you can't charge!

Traktor gun battery could help here. Auto hit so whole bunch of them(18 if you can afford it) of them should clear enough of a hole to any unit hiding to assault remnants.

tneva82 wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
komandoz. got cheaper can take burnas. either drop em as MSU's T2 from reserve or teleport a big blob of em T1

+1 to wound if enemy is in cover

+1 to wound vs cover comes less in play in the presumable scenario he was wondering that is stuff is in 2nd floor. 1st floor isn't issue. Shooting sucks anyway so cover isn't big deal so just go and hack them to pieces. Problem comes with 2nd level hiders who have 1++(with no 1 always fail) vs h2h thanks to GW making it so hard to even legally assault upper floors. +1 to wound doesn't help if you can't charge!

Traktor gun battery could help here. Auto hit so whole bunch of them(18 if you can afford it) of them should clear enough of a hole to any unit hiding to assault remnants.

Traktor guns, as great as they are, probably are not good enough to bring 18 IMO. Quick math says thats 810 points, for 18 autohit shots. I mean yeah, I dont know if that's very versatile. Probably doesn't kill a castellan, or a 30man cultist squad.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the Bubblechucka is 30pts? I'm serious, only been playing for a year, thinking maybe I missed something. With 1d6 for each of its stats, it's never going to be strong enough to damage vehicles, the most it will do is overkill one or two infantry a turn. Is it supposed to be used against elite infantry like Terminators that don't have storm shields?

GW figures "it can be 6666! AWESOME!".

Funny thing it wasn't good before and yet took nerfbat. Before by applying lowest to least needed it used to get at least semi decent shot so was semi-okayish against 1 wound elitish infantry if you were tired of spamming KMK's but now? No point. Traktors, traktors, traktors.


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 hollow one wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
komandoz. got cheaper can take burnas. either drop em as MSU's T2 from reserve or teleport a big blob of em T1

+1 to wound if enemy is in cover

+1 to wound vs cover comes less in play in the presumable scenario he was wondering that is stuff is in 2nd floor. 1st floor isn't issue. Shooting sucks anyway so cover isn't big deal so just go and hack them to pieces. Problem comes with 2nd level hiders who have 1++(with no 1 always fail) vs h2h thanks to GW making it so hard to even legally assault upper floors. +1 to wound doesn't help if you can't charge!

Traktor gun battery could help here. Auto hit so whole bunch of them(18 if you can afford it) of them should clear enough of a hole to any unit hiding to assault remnants.

Traktor guns, as great as they are, probably are not good enough to bring 18 IMO. Quick math says thats 810 points, for 18 autohit shots. I mean yeah, I dont know if that's very versatile. Probably doesn't kill a castellan, or a 30man cultist squad.

You don't plan to kill 30 cultist with it. If you fire vs those it would be killing couple models from top of ruin so you can charge them with something that's actually good at killing them. Or even better do that for -1 to hit infantry which generally are nightmare to deal with.

15 wounds to 4++ castellan btw. Return fire hurts a bit but as each gun is individual that helps.

Oh and 36 wounds to venoms. Yey. Those are generally nightmare for orks to deal. Pack total of 3 splinter cannons, -1 to hit, 5++, flat impossible to assault. TAKE THAT! Too bad 36e/kannon :(

I'm with you tneva, they are good, but when you're not vs an eldar list they are meh. You probably want 4-8, enough to kill a flyer in a turn, and be happy that if there are no flyers you didnt waste too many points.

Boyz where can I find the tractor kannon rules? Everyone is talking about them but I haven't seen a leak for them..

mrtomski wrote:
Boyz where can I find the tractor kannon rules? Everyone is talking about them but I haven't seen a leak for them..

I'm pretty sure this is it: 45 points. defensive stats are same as index, no more grots.
traktor kannon is 48" autohit. Str8. Ap-2. Dmg D6. Heavy 1.
vs vehicle FLYERS roll two D6 for dmg and take the highest. If it kills a vehicle flyer, it automatically explodes.

 hollow one wrote:
I'm with you tneva, they are good, but when you're not vs an eldar list they are meh. You probably want 4-8, enough to kill a flyer in a turn, and be happy that if there are no flyers you didnt waste too many points.

VS flyers it's just extra wound though so not that big of a difference(okay the auto explode is also nice but I have never had much luck with those even in having things die where anybody would even be in range if it explodes! Barring my own vehicles T1 as orks fill up deployment zone pretty much completely...). Even without flyers(which still are btw fairly common. Fly keyword is even with the nerf probably best keyword you can have) there should be plenty of targets out there.

Okay maybe 18 is bit excess(certainly bit of a skew though tank heavy army would hate that) but still big battery of them will likely be staple of competive armies replacing KMK's.

I might be bit biased here though as dark eldars have been army that gives me most grief so far so idea of having something that can actually hurt them sounds fun But with -1/5++/3 splinter cannon/impossible to assault models forming up core if you can't have shooting that can take that down you are looking at quite likely 0 kills whatsoever(hey h2h is 100% impossible so if you don't shoot it obviously results in no casualties...) which is infuriating. Especially when they kill anything orks have without effort. Vehicles? boom. Infantry? Even anti-tank list wipes out all infantry ork horde in no time.

So, Nobz with kustom shootas are 16 ppm, Nobz with Big Choppas are 19 ppm, and the Trukk is 64 points? Thats promising. There's some good things in this codex, some disappointments and some ommisions. It looks like it is better than terrible, which is a plus in my book.

pismakron wrote:
So, Nobz with kustom shootas are 16 ppm, Nobz with Big Choppas are 19 ppm, and the Trukk is 64 points? Thats promising. There's some good things in this codex, some disappointments and some ommisions. It looks like it is better than terrible, which is a plus in my book.

Yea I think this is going to be decent. Nobs with Big Choppas in Trukk. Secretly hope your opponent kills Trukk as you reach their lines so you can loot it. 3+ save Nobs sound legit.

Interestingly you might as well move your Traktor cannons each turn because they don't care about puny negative hit modifiers for heavy weapons.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Interestingly you might as well move your Traktor cannons each turn because they don't care about puny negative hit modifiers for heavy weapons.

haha, good note.

can you still get mek guns in squads of 6 models?

Nora wrote:
can you still get mek guns in squads of 6 models?

Yes.

source: https://youtu.be/qSYaAwhNhO4?t=274

I'm real tempted to put 10 nobz with big choppas and kustom shootas in a trukk with 2 ammo runts.

That should total up to 281 points including the trukk (&big shoota, wrecking ball)

They are cheap enough to not be an all eggs in one basket but if they actually make it to the front they're going to be an issue. The 20 points for all the kustom shootas seem pretty decent to spam out 40 shots every turn they're not in combat. I would need to build way more nobz with big choppas though..

Sidenote, what the hell is the point of the power stabba now? 2 points cheaper than the big choppa and you get an additional AP but lost +2S and D2. They should've dropped a point or been given AP-3 (and then maybe gone up a point) IMO

 hollow one wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Interestingly you might as well move your Traktor cannons each turn because they don't care about puny negative hit modifiers for heavy weapons.

haha, good note.

Ooo that's nice. I don't even CARE if that's competive or not. I just want to make those dark eldar bastards SUFFER!

(oh and 30% chance of one shotting those triple damned venoms and if they bunch up in tall place(read more than 1" tall) so that they are impossible to charge mortal wounds to nearby making odds of blowing next easier etc etc. DIE DIE DIE!

(yeah I hate DE)

That's really nice. And our kannonz are vehiclesz so don't suffer poisoning so much. Still very easy to remove with 5+armor but at least 48 range is neat.

On the other hand, trukkbustas are even better than before. Pretty sure one squad can take down 2 venoms per shooting phase with the ddd strat hitting on 5s with extra shots.

What do people this about deff dreads, 105 points with 4 klaws. That's 6 s10 ap3 3d attacks, will Teleporta you can give it a 3d6 charge so that's almost certain to get in, with extra 1d3 mortal wounds.

Given it's probably going to be a suicide run if you are charging a knight, but decent chance to put out some dmg, worth it in points and cps though?

My thought is that the fact it's only 105 points is the saving grace, but the cp cost might be too high..

 koooaei wrote:
That's really nice. And our kannonz are vehiclesz so don't suffer poisoning so much. Still very easy to remove with 5+armor but at least 48 range is neat.

On the other hand, trukkbustas are even better than before. Pretty sure one squad can take down 2 venoms per shooting phase with the ddd strat hitting on 5s with extra shots.

5+? Thought it was 4+. Did that TOO get nerfed?

Still. 12 of them with 5++ from KFF would be pretty hard to remove especially as they are lone units. Takes 2 in average to take 1 venom out though if they pack together top of some stinking tower or something you can use the auto crash to your advantage. 5 wounds to 1? Don't bother shooting at it. Target next one. 3+ to wound, 5++, if pass 30% chance of one shotting which would take down the wounded one.

too bad 28e even if I buy them from UK. I soooooooo want to have revenge on DE even if it means creating list that loses against others! GRRRR! REVENGE!

(yeah I hate DE )


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mrtomski wrote:
What do people this about deff dreads, 105 points with 4 klaws. That's 6 s10 ap3 3d attacks, will Teleporta you can give it a 3d6 charge so that's almost certain to get in, with extra 1d3 mortal wounds.

Given it's probably going to be a suicide run if you are charging a knight, but decent chance to put out some dmg, worth it in points and cps though?

My thought is that the fact it's only 105 points is the saving grace, but the cp cost might be too high..

Tag team 3 of them with evil sun trait which means reliable charge 3d6 charge or not. Averaging 20 wounds + mortals against knight. Maybe not even bother with the 3d6 charge thing to save on CP. 8" with rerolls is pretty reliable anyway.

Teleporting evil sun walkers will be leading idea in the codex anyway

Once deployed they act as individual models right, so you'd 9nly get the 3d6 charge on one of them. Still I guess since they start as 1 unit you could put 2 in a Teleporta. Guessing 3 is over 20 pm.

mrtomski wrote:
Once deployed they act as individual models right, so you'd 9nly get the 3d6 charge on one of them. Still I guess since they start as 1 unit you could put 2 in a Teleporta. Guessing 3 is over 20 pm.

Which is why they are evil sun. 8 on 2d6 with rerolls for both or 1 dice as needed is fairly reliable. So you could even just forget the 3d6 thing and save CP(say send in another trio of them instead)

And with that much point changes odds are good PL dropped at least 1 for squadron of 3.

tneva82 wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
Once deployed they act as individual models right, so you'd 9nly get the 3d6 charge on one of them. Still I guess since they start as 1 unit you could put 2 in a Teleporta. Guessing 3 is over 20 pm.

Which is why they are evil sun. 8 on 2d6 with rerolls for both or 1 dice as needed is fairly reliable. So you could even just forget the 3d6 thing and save CP(say send in another trio of them instead)

And with that much point changes odds are good PL dropped at least 1 for squadron of 3.

Deffdreads are 5PL each now..

By the way, on an unrelated note.. A megatrakk skrapjet is 90 points but has two twin big shootas. Those are 10 points each, so it's really 110 points? The shokkjump dragsta is 108 points but has a rokkit launcha and those are 12 points, so it's really 120 points? Boomdakka snazzwagon has a big shoota, so 95+5 then..

Blech, gotta find some wiggle room in my list now

Weapons do need to be added so unless they are in codex specifically listed "wargear included" like special characters(unlikely) and the unit entry says 90 pts with 2 10 pts guns then it's 110 pts total.

tneva82 wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
Once deployed they act as individual models right, so you'd 9nly get the 3d6 charge on one of them. Still I guess since they start as 1 unit you could put 2 in a Teleporta. Guessing 3 is over 20 pm.

Which is why they are evil sun. 8 on 2d6 with rerolls for both or 1 dice as needed is fairly reliable. So you could even just forget the 3d6 thing and save CP(say send in another trio of them instead)

And with that much point changes odds are good PL dropped at least 1 for squadron of 3.

I had a glimpse at the PL through a video of the codex and it was 5PL for 1 dread and 16 for 3, so definitely viable. I was planning on either teleporting the 3 deff dreads or using a wartrike to advance and charge with them. Evil sunz either way to ensure the charges.

The 108 point cost is a dead giveaway that you're supposed to add the 12 for the rokkit, yes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The 108 point cost is a dead giveaway that you're supposed to add the 12 for the rokkit, yes.

Internal (and external) crying

Advance and charge means T2 charge earliest and them being made out of paper for current meta means waaaay too risky. T2 charge either way so better keep 'em safe off board. That way you can at least get to shoot them.

When armies are created with principle "can you 1 shot knight? No? you suck" 8 T7 3+ wounds is nothing.


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
The 108 point cost is a dead giveaway that you're supposed to add the 12 for the rokkit, yes.

108 too cheap for you? Or how it would be dead giveaway. Not like things aren't odd points all the time.

Dreads at 5PL is super interesting, so you can get 3 for the price of a gork and hold them in the teleporta.

They are going to chew through heavy armour really nicely, and maybe a better bet than a mork?

There is images of chapter approved with the looted wagon but more then likely it will be for powerlevel non matched play games only.

There is also word on Spikey bits which I believe is a codex reviewer that the Mek guns are mixed units and do have kultur rules. Which will make this codex decent.
Without kultur rules that majority of Mek guns are overpriced. (Outside traktor)

I think our codex is decent with Mek gun kulturs and index units but once the index is gone we will lose a lot of krutches.
I can’t see taking any painboy but the one on bike. It’s significantly better as is the warboss on bike. Both of those are force miltipliers that help infantry and bikes.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
I was experimenting a bit with listbuilding (too early-stage to post) and stumbled on a problem: what unit is best to deal with infantry holed up in ruins? My local meta is full of ruin-hoggers so this could become a problem... My first thought would be the Snazzwagon, any other contenders? Mek Gunz? Lootas? Flash Gitz? It's mostly for games around 1k.

I have a very similar problem in my meta. Snazzwagon is one idea. Trukk Nobs another. Dakkajet does OK in my experience.

Keen to hear other thoughts on this though.

Burna bommer might be an idea as well. The bomb usually takes out half the unit and supa-shoota and the twin big shoota with got gunner kills enough to make moral fatal in many cases. In any case, you usually create a hole big enough to move up.
One of the streams said that you can buy additional burna missiles now, I wonder whether they have changed. I wouldn't even want a single one under the current rules.

If you are not unwilling to fight cheese with cheese, run them over with a deff rolla. The turret is usually high enough to get within 1" of the first floor, in the old GW ruins you don't even need a turret - the battlewagon itself is more than 3" high.

gungo wrote:
There is images of chapter approved with the looted wagon but more then likely it will be for powerlevel non matched play games only.

There is also word on Spikey bits which I believe is a codex reviewer that the Mek guns are mixed units and do have kultur rules. Which will make this codex decent.

Mek gun datasheet clearly has gretchin keyword. The spikey bit reviewer is very likely wrong. Not like they are gods after all

tneva82 wrote:

gungo wrote:
There is images of chapter approved with the looted wagon but more then likely it will be for powerlevel non matched play games only.

There is also word on Spikey bits which I believe is a codex reviewer that the Mek guns are mixed units and do have kultur rules. Which will make this codex decent.

Mek gun datasheet clearly has gretchin keyword. The spikey bit reviewer is very likely wrong. Not like they are gods after all

It’s possible goatboy is a decent competitive ork player and appears to have review copies so I’d wait til I see the codex. And I appreciate your battle reports but you’ve been wrong a few times already on this prerelease(the Gretchin screen being one). Personally I’m hoping you are wrong again as I don’t think Mek guns are great without the kultur rules. But you are probably right since Mek guns have no ork handlers so shouldn’t have kulturs but then again we have several vehicles with grot gunners and kulturs soooo...