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2018/11/01 03:00:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
It should come with everything being released in the codex, let me know if I'm missing anything and I'll make some changes.
While I was working on this some dude came forward with the codex and gave me a hand, so I've even got some unknown goodies (WAAAGH powers, Battlewagon variant rules).
Keep up da WAAAAGH LADS!
Good job Eonfuzz.
For what it is worth, the official BS file is going through a round of QA right now, and should be released in a few days.
Goshdarnit, ohwell. At least it's something to use before release.
2018/11/01 03:22:06
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
It should come with everything being released in the codex, let me know if I'm missing anything and I'll make some changes.
While I was working on this some dude came forward with the codex and gave me a hand, so I've even got some unknown goodies (WAAAGH powers, Battlewagon variant rules).
Keep up da WAAAAGH LADS!
You, sir, are a Nob among boyz. Have an exalt!
2018/11/01 04:42:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Small list with Generic warboss:
Which clan and warlord trait would work out best?
I have found that you really want to get the warboss stuck in, but with only a 4+ save he is a little fragile. I was thinking of doing a Bad Moons one with the 4++ armor. With the T5,4++ he would be pretty tanky. Could be paired with shoota boys and skorcha nobz for the shoot twice strategem.
Evil sunz for the fall back and charge again trait paired with the Bonebreaka and Dreads? Maybe some scorcha loadouts for close range shooting phase.
Or Brutal but Kunnin' for rerolling the misses on a generic claw
2018/11/01 05:15:29
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Shrapnelbait wrote: Small list with Generic warboss:
Which clan and warlord trait would work out best?
I have found that you really want to get the warboss stuck in, but with only a 4+ save he is a little fragile. I was thinking of doing a Bad Moons one with the 4++ armor. With the T5,4++ he would be pretty tanky. Could be paired with shoota boys and skorcha nobz for the shoot twice strategem.
Evil sunz for the fall back and charge again trait paired with the Bonebreaka and Dreads? Maybe some scorcha loadouts for close range shooting phase.
Or Brutal but Kunnin' for rerolling the misses on a generic claw
If you are going bad moons, you are cheating yourself of you dont bring tankbustas for the shoot twice,stratagem
2018/11/01 05:54:59
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
TedNugent wrote: For 200 points, you could almost buy a kuuuuustom boooom blastaaaa! Plus a Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy!
Guys, just think of what you gained!
Instead of taking boys, take deffkoptas (huge points reduction!), Shamalam Dingwagons, dakkajets, Killa kans, mega armored big meks, trukks, and shockjump dragstas! Paint them all yellow (since everyone loves bananas!) And just try NOT to win a tournament!
a) that's fun. GW invalidating entire armies and forcing to buy hundreds of euros new models
b) you would still be at bottom tier. Have fun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Glitcha wrote: I'm fine with the 1pt increase on boyz. Shootas are free now, we got dakka dakka dakka now, AND we got access to tankbusta bombs! That's before you add in the buffs from the klan kulturs.
Shootas were always free. DDD sounds better than it is for boyz. Tankbustas are 1 per 10(and have fun buying new boxes if you dont' have those models) and not THAT awesome and klan kulturs etc are free so the 1pts is flat out nerf.
I just had never even thought about that combo until now. 1ppm and 1 cp to toss ten krak grenades is a REALLY good bargain. Especially if you can surround a transport and then blow it up, killing everyone inside.
Stickbomb!=krak bomb. S3. Wee! Tank busta bomb is 1 per 10 so for squad of 30(210 pts with zero upgrades) you get 3 of them. 210 pts and 1CP with BS5+! WOOOOO! What an AWESOME deal.
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 05:57:55
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/01 06:36:05
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I've been building a grot army for years as a background project. I've got 180 Grots, 8 kannons, 1 AOBR warboss, 3 runtherds and 3 painboys (former runtherds).
Is there any chance I'll be able to run my Grot list with the new codex?
213PL 60PL 12PL 9-17PL (she/her)
2018/11/01 07:22:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
2018/11/01 07:46:56
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Can someone confirm if our index only options get the same clan rules as their codex counterparts? If not it invalidates like 3 lists I've been working on. It also pisses me off that in forced to pay the MA Mek tax for a KFF, who is slow as feth and can't keep up with my bikes/buggies etc
Related, I wonder if Zhadsnark will get the Speedwaaaaagh! rule.
Unless you're taking a tide of skarboyz I agree that Nobs make sense over Boys. Like Jidmah says, if you have enough other multi wound models the opponent has a problem of target priority. Taking dual choppas is massive. I think it actually ekes out Power Stabbas too as a much more optimal choice. I preferred the singular extra attack against most targets but 2 extra attacks? For no more points?! Carnage. Do we have 100% confirmation of this?
Buggies, Koptas and bikes can move - shoot - move now which is interesting. If my thinking on the advance rule is correct (in that it modifies your movement for the rest of the round) using Evil Sunz this puts their movement at 32 + 2d6+2 if you advance for bikes and 46" for Koptas! Will be good for sneaky objective grabbing and blitzing out of sight after unloading. If a SJD rolls a shokk tunnel result am I right in thinking you'd be able to use it twice?! Like teleport upfield, blast a vehicle then teleport back with stratagem?! Gotta go fast!
E -sp
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 07:48:25
2018/11/01 07:51:08
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Blndmage wrote:I've been building a grot army for years as a background project. I've got 180 Grots, 8 kannons, 1 AOBR warboss, 3 runtherds and 3 painboys (former runtherds).
Is there any chance I'll be able to run my Grot list with the new codex?
Grots are solid for meat shielding purposes and filling troop choices, but not worth much beyond that. The kannons would be great if you run them as mek guns instead.
Azhday wrote:Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
Freebooterz have a solid tactic you can build around for a versatile non-specific build because they don't have any direct bonuses to shooting like Bad Moonz. They're not awful by any stretch, but I don't see them being a meta pick.
The biker bosses I see being really solid because they didn't get a price hike in the codex like normal warbosses did and have access to great relics. I think they will be featured a lot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 08:01:07
2018/11/01 08:12:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Blndmage wrote: I've been building a grot army for years as a background project. I've got 180 Grots, 8 kannons, 1 AOBR warboss, 3 runtherds and 3 painboys (former runtherds).
Is there any chance I'll be able to run my Grot list with the new codex?
You could use another HQ or three, but you are probably not going to be worse off than with the index. If you count your kannons as smasha guns, they would probably even do decent.
If you want to build those models into a real army, you should probably make them snakebite, since the warboss can then keep many gretchin in line at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azhday wrote: Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
Freebootas should work pretty well with many shooting units. Badrukk, SAG, dakka jets, lootas, flash gits, boosta blasta and scrapjets all have potential to finish off a unit all by themselves and them provide all other units of your army with +1 to BS for the rest of the shooting phase. In combat just have your warboss or a unit of nobz go first to wipe out something and then have all others get a free Waaagh! Banner.
Their warlord trait and relic aren't awesome, but the generic ones are good enough not to bother. In general freebootas are probably not a tournament winning choice, but they aren't terrible either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 08:18:06
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/01 08:18:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
That's REAL relevant when we are talking about 8th ed where they have always been free.
Might just as well say with space marines "we arent' 30 pts per tactical marine anymore! Space marines got soooo huge boost in the codex!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azhday wrote: Hello!
Is there a reason to play Freebooterz other then fluff?
Are there any useful builds for stuff that didn't got into Codex like MA Warboss and Biker Warboss?
If you build the one build that clan works with yes. You need to have some big powerful guns to ensure you get the +1 to hit for rest so build up with stuff like mek guns(which still trigger the bonus even if they don't get the +1 hit themselves), speed dragsta etc. Though doubtful how powerful gunline orks will build but that's how freebooters will play like.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 08:20:20
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/01 08:29:57
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
An Actual Englishman wrote: Can someone confirm if our index only options get the same clan rules as their codex counterparts? If not it invalidates like 3 lists I've been working on. It also pisses me off that in forced to pay the MA Mek tax for a KFF, who is slow as feth and can't keep up with my bikes/buggies etc
Detachments get the kulture benefits if all models inside have the same <Klan>, so unless they have the GRETCHIN keyword, they would benefit from the clan rules.
Related, I wonder if Zhadsnark will get the Speedwaaaaagh! rule.
Remember how he was forgotten when the biker warboss got the ability to Waaagh! Bikes?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Unless you're taking a tide of skarboyz I agree that Nobs make sense over Boys. Like Jidmah says, if you have enough other multi wound models the opponent has a problem of target priority. Taking dual choppas is massive. I think it actually ekes out Power Stabbas too as a much more optimal choice. I preferred the singular extra attack against most targets but 2 extra attacks? For no more points?! Carnage. Do we have 100% confirmation of this?
Like 80% - multiple reviewers have mentioned this.
Buggies, Koptas and bikes can move - shoot - move now which is interesting. If my thinking on the advance rule is correct (in that it modifies your movement for the rest of the round) using Evil Sunz this puts their movement at 32 + 2d6+2 if you advance for bikes and 46" for Koptas! Will be good for sneaky objective grabbing and blitzing out of sight after unloading. If a SJD rolls a shokk tunnel result am I right in thinking you'd be able to use it twice?! Like teleport upfield, blast a vehicle then teleport back with stratagem?! Gotta go fast!
E -sp
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/01 08:58:24
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 09:08:27
2018/11/01 10:44:48
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
I got my hands on 2 mellee dreads for around 17$ each. That seems to be decent for an original model. Will gett a 3d one eventually. Meanwhile it's gona be a helbrute (that i got for 5$ back in the day).
So, around 700 pts left on board. Doesn't seem we have too many options here, really. But we definitely need grots. At least a couple squads and one that contains at least 20 to be used as grot shields for nobz when they charge something like a wall of helblasters. Another 100ish points that go to grots. We also need all the hq. So at least 2 wierdboyz for another 120ish points. And than a boss to keep order for another 70 pts. We do need boyz to benefit from the greentide strategem at least once per game, so another 210 pts minimum. And we need gunz. So, 3 smashas. And... we can't fit it all in. That's sad.
2018/11/01 10:45:00
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Greetings, spawn of the Old Ones!
Necron player here, with a battlereport vs an Ork army /w ‘codex’ (my opponent basically scrapped all the leaks together to already play with it).
Here’s the battlereport, enjoy!
2000 points
Lists:
Spoiler:
My list:
Necron Battalion, Mephrit
HQ:
Illuminor Szeras, Warlord
Overlord /w Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness
Troops:
2x 20 Warriors
10 Immortals /w Tesla
Elite:
Triach Stalker /w Heat Ray
Fast attack:
2x 4 Scarabs
6x Destroyers
Heavy supp:
2x DDA Transcendant C’tan (rolled a 1 and a 2 on his split personality upgrades!!)
Ork list:
Evil Sunz battalion, 2x spearhead
HQ:
Trike
Warboss on bike /w relic killy klaw, warlord
Weirdboy (upgraded to a Warphead)
Big mek /w KFF
Heavy supp:
5x Mek gun /w Traktor kannon
Bonebreaka battlewagon (meganobz went in here)
Battlewagon /w deffrolla (tankbusta and KKF mek went in here)
Gorkanaut
I deployed everything close to eachother, the Scarabs up front followed by the Warrior blobs.
The orks deployed as close to the front as possible, the Gorkanaut went in the Tellyporta.
Orks, turn 1:
Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING advanced forward (ok, not the mek gunz) and BOY are Evil Sunz fast!
The battlewagons and bikerbosses went as close to my line as possible. Trukk went after them, but stayed midfield to control an objective.
Bikes went to a flank to claim an objective.
Weirdboy (now a Warphead) gave the Boyz+1 attack and Da Jumped them to a flank.
Ork shooting took out the Scarab screen. Tankbustas did 6 wounds to a DDA (with More Dakka, but the QS stratagem really did its job).
The Mek Gunz did absolutely nothing vs the wounded DDA.. 3 of them failed to wound, and the 2D6 take the highest was terrible vs QS.
At this point I thought: ‘alright, I got one turn of shooting before he can charge me’’. Uuuuntil i realised the Trike gave all those battlewagons advance and charge!!
So yea, all the Warriors were locked in combat.
Boyz charged another Warrior Blob, +1 to charge and re-roll any dice was very useful here.
Warboss on bike failed his charge on the Destroyers, that was pretty important.
Bonebreaka charged the Stalker.
We tried to simulate the Boyz on 32” bases, so not all of them got to fight. Still managed to get 100 attacks, which killed 19! Warriors. This many casualties meant the Battlewagon couldn’t finish them off.
The Bonebreaka did 5 wounds to the Stalker. My opponent wanted to save CP, but Boarding Action could have finished it off.
Necrons, turn 1:
The lone warrior was thankfully no longer locked in combat due to the large amount of casualties, and 9 of his buddies reanimated.
Warriors stayed put, one blob had to fall back. Immortals shuffled a bit towards the flank with the boyz, everything else stayed put. C’tan moved towards the Warboss on bike.
Overlord gave the Immortals MWBD, Szeras upgraded the freshly reanimated Warriors to T5.
Then came the Necron shooting... wauw what a retaliation.
First off... 10 Immortals with MWBD and AP-1 thanks to Mephrit killed all 30 boyz!!
One DDA against the Bonebreaka rolled a 6 on his shots! Followed by 5 1’s on his to hit roll..... Still, that one wound did 6 dmg, so it was a rollercoaster of emotions with that thing!
Other DDA finished the Bonebreaka, the Meganobz jumped out.
The small Warrior blob and the Gauss Flayers from the DDA killed the Trike.
Destroyers did 8 wounds to the Battlewagon, KFF absolutely saved it’s skin there.
And finally, C’tan charged the Warboss on bike and absolutely slaughtered him. My Opponent could have made the Boss fight upon death, but the 3++ made him decide against it.
Orks, turn 2.
Tankbustas stayed put, the battlewagon they were in shuffled foward.
Shoots in the trukk jumped out and moved up, trukk stayed behind for the objective.
Meganobz moved foward towards the Destroyers.
Bikers went after the Triach Stalker.
Gorkanaut teleported in on the same flank the Boyz used to be.
Weirdboy tried to Da Jump himself, but the power got denied by Szeras. He then gave the shoota boyz +1A.
The Gorkanaut and the Mek Gunz killed 3 destroyers.
Dakka from the Meganobz, bikes and shoota boyz killed 8 Warriors from the biggest blob.
Tankbustas were now within 6”, so my opponent decided to combo More Dakka with Extra Stikkbombs.
He did a total of 9 wounds to the DDA, leaving it at one wound. Again, Improved QS was amazing.
We simulated the same attack vs a Casstellan Knight with 3++, just to see what it did. The Tankbustas would have done 16 wounds to a Knight, not too shabby.
Gorkanaut charged the Immortals.
Meganobz charged the Destroyers.
Bikes the Stalker.
And shoota boyz the previously shot necron blob.
Gorkanaut killed 8 Immortals, a bit dissapointing considering it had 18 attacks.
Meganobz killed 2 Destroyers, and my opponent let an audible groans as he knew that all those Destoyers could now be reanimated >.
Despite being 12 shoota boyz, they were suprisingly effective in melee thanks to Warpath. They finished of a Warrior blob.
Bikers brought the Stalker down to 1 wound.
Necrons, turn 2.
Bah, the Reanimations went very poor this turn. 10 man Warrior blob only got 2 back, and out of the 5 destroyers only 1 managed to get back up.
The immortals faired a bit better, getting 5 out of the 8 casualties back.
The warrior blob stayed put, since they were gonna teleport out with the Veil so that they could still shoot. Immortals stayed put, since the Meganobz were right in front of them.
Destroyers fell back to shoot at the Meganobz.
C’tan moved up to claim the mid-field objective.
With the Stalker and one DDA having to fall back (and the other DDA being dead) my anti-tank was as good as gone. Though there was still a Battlewagon and a Gorkanaut right up in my face!
This left the infantry. Combined fire from the Destroyers and the immortals killed 2 Meganobz. In cover these bastards are quite tough!
The Veil’d Warriors finished the 12 Shoota boyz.
And in a last desperate move, Szeras and the Immortals charged the Meganobz. Bad idea; the Meganobz took 0 dmg and snipped Szeras in half like a piece of paper.
At this point I unfortunately had to go due to time, but the game was over anyway. The next ork turn the Destroyers, Immortals, Stalker and DDA would have all died, leaving the C’tan, Warriors and Overlord to be cleaned up the turn thereafter.
Post-game Thoughts:
Orks are definitely not a joke anymore. Almost all units my oppponent threw at me were of equal threat due to their speed. The two battlewagons, the Gorkanaut, the 30 unit.... it was very difficult for me to prioritize the biggest target.
Though Mephrit small-arms cut through the ork infantry like a hit knife through butter, their vehicles are tough as nails. Though with the Stalker being locked in combat from turn 1, not all my anti-tank got to shoot.
Still, I definitely expected both Battlewagons to fall in my first turn, but between a KFF and one battlewagon being T8, I underestimated their survivability!
It’s a shame the Warboss /w the Killy Klaw failed his charge, he really would have done a number on the Destroyers.
The Dakka Dakka rule overal felt.... ok. It gave. A bit more oompf to the overal Ork shooting, but I believe it still remains a close-combate orientated army.
All in all it was a very fun match and I look forward to battle the Greenskins again!
2018/11/01 11:11:14
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
We have screenshots of the datasheet leaked, and it says "If you roll a 4+ when advancing with this model..." - since you don't roll again, shokk tunnel doesn't activate again.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/01 11:16:35
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
We have screenshots of the datasheet leaked, and it says "If you roll a 4+ when advancing with this model..." - since you don't roll again, shokk tunnel doesn't activate again.
I get that. I guess I don't understand how you can be confident that doesn't translate into it shokk tunneling again. You get the same advance move as last time, that advance was not actually a move since you just teleport. To me it sounds more logical that you just jump again since that is literally the same advance move. You don't roll again but you "rolled" a 4+. Maybe I'm just being dense...
2018/11/01 11:18:10
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
795 pts is more than half the 1500 so good luck finding opponent allowing you to bypass the matched play rule.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/01 11:32:32
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
No they don't.
You're thinking of space marines, who do not have a grenade stratagem. AFAIK no IG unit currently gets krak grenades and SWS (only in the index) can take demo charges.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/01 11:43:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I couldn't follow your math, but from tyranids we know that you only roll one advance roll per turn, and then add that to your movement stat for the rest of your turn.
For example, an evil suns kopta would move 14+2" and get a fixed 6+1" for 23" movement. When you move them again through stratagem, they just move another 23".
For bikes, it would move 14+2" plus d6+1". If you rolled a 3, that would be 20". When you move them again, they move another 20", you don't roll another d6.
Therefore, the shokkjump dragsta wouldn't jump again, since you don't roll another dice, but it would get the 4+ inches added to its second move.
Are you sure that doesn't mean he automatically advances then? Since he already rolled that 4+ before and now he moves in an identical manner again, wouldn't that 4+ be "activated" again?
Edit: By automatically advance I mean auutomatically activate the shokk tunnel
We have screenshots of the datasheet leaked, and it says "If you roll a 4+ when advancing with this model..." - since you don't roll again, shokk tunnel doesn't activate again.
I get that. I guess I don't understand how you can be confident that doesn't translate into it shokk tunneling again. You get the same advance move as last time, that advance was not actually a move since you just teleport. To me it sounds more logical that you just jump again since that is literally the same advance move. You don't roll again but you "rolled" a 4+. Maybe I'm just being dense...
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/01 11:44:17
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
No they don't.
You're thinking of space marines, who do not have a grenade stratagem. AFAIK no IG unit currently gets krak grenades and SWS (only in the index) can take demo charges.
You're correct that Tneva is wrong about bog standrad guard infantry squads having krak grenades, they can only ever have frags. However, scions AFAIK do have both, but are rarely taken in 10 man squads to ever do so.
2018/11/01 12:06:16
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
I hope you don't find me annoying now, but I still don't really agree. Here's a question regarding advancing in the BRB40k errata in its entirety:
Spoiler:
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase, its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when making this move?
A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic of a unit can only be modified once in this manner
They do not state that you cannot advance more than once per turn, rather that you can't more than once per phase. The shokkjump example would be advancing once in the movement phase and then another time at the end of the shooting phase. So in my mind, that means that the advance move in the shooting phase is actually an advance move and not just adding those extra inches. Again, maybe I'm just being dense. I think I'll ask GW about it just to be safe
2018/11/01 12:21:48
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Poking through this ork prerelease BS file, I'm not seeing any changes that haven't been mentioned in leaks/reviews I've seen.
There are a couple things I'm fairly confident are incorrect (Bonebreaka for example doesn't add the extra 20pts base and doesn't look like it's locked into the 'ard Case...but it also has a Dakkajet listed as an upgrade it can take so I'm gonna chalk that bad boy up to "it's in beta".) Points values all seem to be solidly there so I'm going to have some fun with listbuilding.
So, thinking about the new Battlewagon variants for a second here:
Gunwagon: Essentially pays 20 points for a second kilkannon. If it wasn't also locked into the 'ard case upgrade I'd consider it as a way to park a big unit of Flash Gitz midboard and just blast away at 24", but I think the 'ard case and lack of BS4+ makes it pretty solidly useless.
Bonebreaka: Perfectly solid unit for use with melee battlewagon occupants especially when evil sunz deep striking. It seems to be best loaded with six meganobz or 11 nobz+some kind of character for maximum effect. 20pts for bonebreaka ram rule seems totally worth it with the improved deffrolla.
Battewagon: 40 points is a mighty hefty drop, to the point where "just a deffrolla" battewagons are very nearly the cost of two trukks for a really large increase in threat.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/01 12:27:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.
I got my hands on 2 mellee dreads for around 17$ each. That seems to be decent for an original model. Will gett a 3d one eventually. Meanwhile it's gona be a helbrute (that i got for 5$ back in the day).
So, around 700 pts left on board. Doesn't seem we have too many options here, really. But we definitely need grots. At least a couple squads and one that contains at least 20 to be used as grot shields for nobz when they charge something like a wall of helblasters. Another 100ish points that go to grots. We also need all the hq. So at least 2 wierdboyz for another 120ish points. And than a boss to keep order for another 70 pts. We do need boyz to benefit from the greentide strategem at least once per game, so another 210 pts minimum. And we need gunz. So, 3 smashas. And... we can't fit it all in. That's sad.
Got to pump up to 2000 man! Those are rookie numbers!
Nice find on the dreads! I am thinking the same thing. 3 dreads and 7-10 manz deep striking almost every game. They are AMAZINg as evil sunz because the +1 to charge with re-roll almost guarantees the charge hits pay dirt. Even though Im traditionally a goff. So my boyz, nobz will be goffs, while the "red team" forward operate.
I think I'm going to paint my MANz in a dark angels terminator color scheme and call em my "deff wing." That mat be a blood axe thing.. ripping off oomie kulture.. but it sounds fun.
I just had never even thought about that combo until now. 1ppm and 1 cp to toss ten krak grenades is a REALLY good bargain. Especially if you can surround a transport and then blow it up, killing everyone inside.
Stickbomb!=krak bomb. S3. Wee! Tank busta bomb is 1 per 10 so for squad of 30(210 pts with zero upgrades) you get 3 of them. 210 pts and 1CP with BS5+! WOOOOO! What an AWESOME deal.
Oh wait others do that thing better. IG gets 10 krak grenades for 40 pts as well. 40<210.
Do you play orks? you know BS5 is a thing and has been for a while right? Ok good. Cause that sounds like a lot of "wahhhhhh" coming from you when it should be WAAAGGGGGHHHHH. I was referring the to tankbusta bombs we get in the squad now. Boyz blobs have a tool to deal with armor. For 1ppm I will take it. At first I misunderstood and thought for 1 cp we could toss 10 tankbusta bombs from boys units. I see how I was mistaken.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 12:34:34
2018/11/01 13:00:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Do you play orks? you know BS5 is a thing and has been for a while right? Ok good. Cause that sounds like a lot of "wahhhhhh" coming from you when it should be WAAAGGGGGHHHHH. I was referring the to tankbusta bombs we get in the squad now. Boyz blobs have a tool to deal with armor. For 1ppm I will take it. At first I misunderstood and thought for 1 cp we could toss 10 tankbusta bombs from boys units. I see how I was mistaken.
BS5+ being a thing for a while should precisely have taught you how useless few shots are. But sure if 20 years hasn't taught it yet keep on banging your head. Eventually you'll learn how inefficient 5+ to hit shooting is without big pile of dices.
As it is it's gone for WORSE for orks seeing hit modifiers are again a thing...Before at least you could be sure you hit on 5+. Now you can't rely on that and can hit on 6+ halving your hits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 13:03:40
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/01 13:21:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Coming from 1 year of (success) playing ´Nids I did a 2k which would suit my play style and from there went down to 1750 and 1500 to try to understand how I would like the list to evolve.
2k Brigade Evil Sunz
Spoiler:
++ 2k Brigade Evil Sunz ++
Ork Kultures: Evil Sunz - Red Ones Go Fasta
+ HQ +
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
Weirdboy
+ Troops +
Boyz . Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz . Boss Nob: Choppa, Slugga
. 11x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Pros: a lot of board control, decent backfire and in your face G-Naut with the telly meanwhile I can flame mid field chaff or gun down them. Good target saturation and good scaling with Stormboyz DP turn2 and 3, Boyz mob up and Jump turn 1 and a lot of grotz to keep on Jumping later as harrassment.
Cons: Kind of offering the big fella; i Need to buy another 1000kr of models plus the 1000 i just spent in codex and Gunz and grotz >->
Downscaled 1750 for now is something like this:
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP ++
+ HQ +
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
Big Mek: Choppa, Shokk Attack Gun
+ Troops +
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
Gretchin: 10x Gretchin
+ Elites +
Nobz: Cybork Body
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Big Choppa
The Nobz are there for "Surprise MotherF R" effect in the G-Naur, but a lot depends if the transported units are counted as PL for the Stratagem or not. Otherwise I might opt for a lot of boyz to mob up and jump or a Plane. I will wait the Faq before i buy anymore models.
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
I hope you don't find me annoying now, but I still don't really agree. Here's a question regarding advancing in the BRB40k errata in its entirety:
Spoiler:
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase, its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when making this move?
A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic of a unit can only be modified once in this manner
They do not state that you cannot advance more than once per turn, rather that you can't more than once per phase. The shokkjump example would be advancing once in the movement phase and then another time at the end of the shooting phase. So in my mind, that means that the advance move in the shooting phase is actually an advance move and not just adding those extra inches. Again, maybe I'm just being dense. I think I'll ask GW about it just to be safe
As RAW you are right, however expect it to be FAQed as they did for 'Nids and their stratagem
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 15:19:54
2018/11/01 15:36:55
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Advancing is the act of rolling a d6 and adding it to the movement stat, not the move itself. You can only advance once per turn.
I hope you don't find me annoying now, but I still don't really agree. Here's a question regarding advancing in the BRB40k errata in its entirety:
Spoiler:
Q: The rules for Advancing state that you roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristic of the models in the unit ‘for that Movement phase’. If, for whatever reason, I am able to Advance and then move normally with a unit in the same Movement phase, does the number I added to the unit’s Move characteristic when it Advanced still apply when I make the normal move with the unit? For example, I have a unit whose Move characteristic is 6". It Advances, and I roll a 6, adding that to its Move characteristic to make 12". If it moves again in the same phase, its Move characteristic is still 12", so can it move up to 12" when making this move?
A: Yes. Note that a unit cannot Advance more than once in the same Movement phase, so the Move characteristic of a unit can only be modified once in this manner
They do not state that you cannot advance more than once per turn, rather that you can't more than once per phase. The shokkjump example would be advancing once in the movement phase and then another time at the end of the shooting phase. So in my mind, that means that the advance move in the shooting phase is actually an advance move and not just adding those extra inches. Again, maybe I'm just being dense. I think I'll ask GW about it just to be safe
Uh, no, you got misunderstood the question entirely. And no, you are not annoying at all, this is genuinely difficult to understand
In 8th edition "Advancing" is a separate action you take during your movement phase that modifiers your Move characteristic. Advancing by itself does not move your model at all. Moving after having rolled a d6 is not "advancing". When you re-read that FAQ with that in mind, it makes a lot more sense.
For example, if you advance with your warbikers, you roll a d6 and add the result to your movement characteristic. For example, if you roll a 5, their movement characteristic is now 19" (assuming not evil suns). You can then use your regular move to move them 19" rather than 14". If you use a stratagem to move them again, their movement characteristic is still 19" from your advance roll, so they move another 19".
So the shokkjump dragsta only jumps when you roll the dice to decide how much you add to your movement for that turn. You do not jump every time you move, since you cannot take the "Advance" action a second time in your movement phase. Outside of the movement phase you cannot advance since Advancing is limited to units picked to move during your movement phase.
Additional FAQs from Codex: Tyranids
Q: Can a unit ever Advance twice in a single phase? A: No.
Q: If a unit has Advanced in a phase, and is given the opportunity to move again in the same phase, what is their Move characteristic? A: Their Move characteristic for the second move would still be the value as modified from the Advance.
For example, if a unit with a Move characteristic of 5" Advances in a Movement phase, and the result of the dice rolled for the Advance is 4, its Move characteristic would be modified for that phase to 9". As such, if it was given the opportunity to move again in that phase, its Move characteristic would still be 9"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 15:40:00
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/01 16:16:36
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Do you play orks? you know BS5 is a thing and has been for a while right? Ok good. Cause that sounds like a lot of "wahhhhhh" coming from you when it should be WAAAGGGGGHHHHH. I was referring the to tankbusta bombs we get in the squad now. Boyz blobs have a tool to deal with armor. For 1ppm I will take it. At first I misunderstood and thought for 1 cp we could toss 10 tankbusta bombs from boys units. I see how I was mistaken.
BS5+ being a thing for a while should precisely have taught you how useless few shots are. But sure if 20 years hasn't taught it yet keep on banging your head. Eventually you'll learn how inefficient 5+ to hit shooting is without big pile of dices.
As it is it's gone for WORSE for orks seeing hit modifiers are again a thing...Before at least you could be sure you hit on 5+. Now you can't rely on that and can hit on 6+ halving your hits.
Then don’t shoot the shots if you feel it’s a waste of time. I see ork shoring as volume based...but sometimes that volune is not coming from one gun or one unit...but just as a whole from the army. So even if it’s one Kustom Shoota here or there 4,5 of those across the board will add up. I’m sorry but your negative complainer attitude does very little in a thread about tactics. Plenty of that in the news and rumors thread.
...it's good to be green! 
60PL 
12PL 
.
R" effect in the G-Naur, but a lot depends if the transported units are counted as 