ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Oh hey, I was right! It has to be a full unit of grots, it's not the keyword. The Nobs can have ammo runts is probably why the keyword is there?

 Billagio wrote:
The ammo runts are called out as a seperate line item with the GRETCHIN keyword. Mek gunz are just one line item with the GRETCHIN keyword so they wouldnt get kulture, but nobz would.

 Billagio wrote:
Good god they really need to FAQ this ASAP

 JimOnMars wrote:
I (happily) stand corrected. Cheers!

Now then....it seems to me that the ammo runts are equipped with slugga and choppa...and can swap them out. Nowhere does it say the weapons are for nobs only.

 Billagio wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

gungo wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.

like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.

This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.

GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.

I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.

I believe I heard someone read it aloud in one of the previews and it made a lot more sense. IIRC 'any unit composed entirely of gretchen do not benifit from Kulture.'
This would explain why Mek Guns and Gretchen units don't get it, as every model in the unit will have the keyword. Nobs are fine because they don't have the gretchen keyword, even if there are models in the unit that do.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
damn it, my reply is in the bottom of the quote above


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shrapnelbait wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

gungo wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know why anyone would expect Mek Gunz to get kulturs. This is a flavor thing for GW, not even a balance thing. They are manned exclusively by grots, end of story. To claim a grot should get kultur because his gun, an inanimate object, is not a grot, is beyond ridiculous.

like the person above said if you are going strictly RAW then nobs and flahsgits don’t get kulturs either since they have the keyword Gretchin...
Furthermore going by your “flavor” theory half the vehicles wouldn’t benefit either since they use grot gunners.

This is very true. By RAW, Nobs are big grots, and do not get kultures.

GW had months to get this codex right, and yet they give us this. Mork help us.

I thought the Grots not getting it is in their datasheet, not based on the keyword, same as the Flashgitz? Or it was in the special rules section when explaining the Kultures and who benefits from them, I forget. I would say that's someone taking that too far... but who knows.

I believe I heard someone read it aloud in one of the previews and it made a lot more sense. IIRC 'any unit composed entirely of gretchen do not benifit from Kulture.'
This would explain why Mek Guns and Gretchen units don't get it, as every model in the unit will have the keyword. Nobs are fine because they don't have the gretchen keyword, even if there are models in the unit that do.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
damn it, my reply is in the bottom of the quote above

Sigh, I'm a teknology idiot lol. Fraked up the quote stuff

 Glitcha wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
The ammo runts are called out as a seperate line item with the GRETCHIN keyword. Mek gunz are just one line item with the GRETCHIN keyword so they wouldnt get kulture, but nobz would.

Yeah Mek gunz still get the kultur buff. Expect to see an FAQ that explains it, but they will still get it. This is because on the grot page it is just Gretchin. Where the mek gun has the Gretchin keyword and the mek gun keyword meaning it is not an entire squad of just gretchin.

redboi wrote:
Thoughts on using a warboss on bike as suicide missle? Cast +2a +2s power on him, equipped with relic claw and +1dmg trait. He has a pretty decent chance at one shotting a knight, especially with Goff klan trait.

redboi wrote:
Thoughts on using a warboss on bike as suicide missle? Cast +2a +2s power on him, equipped with relic claw and +1dmg trait. He has a pretty decent chance at one shotting a knight, especially with Goff klan trait.

the_scotsman wrote:
So I feel dumb for suggesting it, but... A big mek in mega armor with Klaw, KMB, and tellyport blasta in a shooty klan as a character krumper...fun or so crap it's unusable?

Tp blasta got buffed to flat 3 shots kmb to D6 damage.

 Glitcha wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sad that none of us know.

It seems that NONE of the people who have a codex are on Dakka.

*cough cough*

Spoiler:

 Blndmage wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sad that none of us know.

It seems that NONE of the people who have a codex are on Dakka.

*cough cough*

Spoiler:

Well, my entire army is basically useless now.

What really pisses me of, is that in all the faction focus stuff they constantly talk about Gretchin with Kukture, like at the end of the Snakebites one:
"...some ‘hardy’ Snakebites Gretchin will do your clan proud (as everyone knows that the best Runtherdz are Snakebites)..."

pismakron wrote:
I looks like the dual choppa Nob is not intended, and it will probably be FAQed away.

fe40k wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Sad that none of us know.

It seems that NONE of the people who have a codex are on Dakka.

*cough cough*

Spoiler:

Well, my entire army is basically useless now.

What really pisses me of, is that in all the faction focus stuff they constantly talk about Gretchin with Kukture, like at the end of the Snakebites one:
"...some ‘hardy’ Snakebites Gretchin will do your clan proud (as everyone knows that the best Runtherdz are Snakebites)..."

Yeah, and they also advertised Iron Hands Contemptor Dreadnoughts with 2x 6+++ rolls; which worked for a bit - only to be changed shortly afterwards.

I don't like that they removed GRETCHIN from getting Kultur; it kills so many lists, for no real reason. The only unit that got excessive bonuses from kultur was the MekGunz, and that's only because of Deathskulls kultur. BadMoonz RR1's was the second best, but even then; it's really not that strong - every army has access to RR1's on their best shooting units.

It just feels so bad, I'd love to use KillaKans; but I'm honestly not sure if there's a reason anymore - 3x DeffDreads will be much better in melee, more likely to get in close combat (as a result of Evil Sunz and 3x charge rolls for a squad of 3), and the loss of shooting can be replaced by other units in the army. -- I'm sure they're still decent enough to run, but, it FEELS like "what's the point?".

 TedNugent wrote:

It probably was an oversight, but it states pretty clearly that you may replace the sluggas and the Choppa.

Doctoralex wrote:
Greetings, spawn of the Old Ones!
Necron player here, with a battlereport vs an Ork army /w ‘codex’ (my opponent basically scrapped all the leaks together to already play with it).

Here’s the battlereport, enjoy!


2000 points

Lists:

Spoiler:

My list:

Necron Battalion, Mephrit

HQ:
Illuminor Szeras, Warlord
Overlord /w Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness

Troops:
2x 20 Warriors
10 Immortals /w Tesla

Elite:
Triach Stalker /w Heat Ray

Fast attack:
2x 4 Scarabs
6x Destroyers

Heavy supp:
2x DDA
Transcendant C’tan (rolled a 1 and a 2 on his split personality upgrades!!)

Ork list:

Evil Sunz battalion, 2x spearhead

HQ:
Trike
Warboss on bike /w relic killy klaw, warlord
Weirdboy (upgraded to a Warphead)
Big mek /w KFF

Troops:
30x boyz /w choppa
12x boyz /w shoota
10x gretchin

Elite
12x tankbustas
5 Meganobz

Fast attack
5x warbikes, nob /w klaw

Heavy supp:
5x Mek gun /w Traktor kannon
Bonebreaka battlewagon (meganobz went in here)
Battlewagon /w deffrolla (tankbusta and KKF mek went in here)
Gorkanaut

I deployed everything close to eachother, the Scarabs up front followed by the Warrior blobs.
The orks deployed as close to the front as possible, the Gorkanaut went in the Tellyporta.

Bat rep:

Spoiler:

Mission: Cleanse & Capture
Deployment: Frontline assault

Orks, turn 1:
Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING advanced forward (ok, not the mek gunz) and BOY are Evil Sunz fast!
The battlewagons and bikerbosses went as close to my line as possible. Trukk went after them, but stayed midfield to control an objective.
Bikes went to a flank to claim an objective.
Weirdboy (now a Warphead) gave the Boyz+1 attack and Da Jumped them to a flank.

Ork shooting took out the Scarab screen. Tankbustas did 6 wounds to a DDA (with More Dakka, but the QS stratagem really did its job).
The Mek Gunz did absolutely nothing vs the wounded DDA.. 3 of them failed to wound, and the 2D6 take the highest was terrible vs QS.

At this point I thought: ‘alright, I got one turn of shooting before he can charge me’’. Uuuuntil i realised the Trike gave all those battlewagons advance and charge!!
So yea, all the Warriors were locked in combat.
Boyz charged another Warrior Blob, +1 to charge and re-roll any dice was very useful here.
Warboss on bike failed his charge on the Destroyers, that was pretty important.
Bonebreaka charged the Stalker.

We tried to simulate the Boyz on 32” bases, so not all of them got to fight. Still managed to get 100 attacks, which killed 19! Warriors. This many casualties meant the Battlewagon couldn’t finish them off.
The Bonebreaka did 5 wounds to the Stalker. My opponent wanted to save CP, but Boarding Action could have finished it off.

Necrons, turn 1:
The lone warrior was thankfully no longer locked in combat due to the large amount of casualties, and 9 of his buddies reanimated.
Warriors stayed put, one blob had to fall back. Immortals shuffled a bit towards the flank with the boyz, everything else stayed put. C’tan moved towards the Warboss on bike.
Overlord gave the Immortals MWBD, Szeras upgraded the freshly reanimated Warriors to T5.

Then came the Necron shooting... wauw what a retaliation.
First off... 10 Immortals with MWBD and AP-1 thanks to Mephrit killed all 30 boyz!!
One DDA against the Bonebreaka rolled a 6 on his shots! Followed by 5 1’s on his to hit roll..... Still, that one wound did 6 dmg, so it was a rollercoaster of emotions with that thing!
Other DDA finished the Bonebreaka, the Meganobz jumped out.
The small Warrior blob and the Gauss Flayers from the DDA killed the Trike.
Destroyers did 8 wounds to the Battlewagon, KFF absolutely saved it’s skin there.
And finally, C’tan charged the Warboss on bike and absolutely slaughtered him. My Opponent could have made the Boss fight upon death, but the 3++ made him decide against it.

Orks, turn 2.
Tankbustas stayed put, the battlewagon they were in shuffled foward.
Shoots in the trukk jumped out and moved up, trukk stayed behind for the objective.
Meganobz moved foward towards the Destroyers.
Bikers went after the Triach Stalker.
Gorkanaut teleported in on the same flank the Boyz used to be.
Weirdboy tried to Da Jump himself, but the power got denied by Szeras. He then gave the shoota boyz +1A.

The Gorkanaut and the Mek Gunz killed 3 destroyers.
Dakka from the Meganobz, bikes and shoota boyz killed 8 Warriors from the biggest blob.
Tankbustas were now within 6”, so my opponent decided to combo More Dakka with Extra Stikkbombs.
He did a total of 9 wounds to the DDA, leaving it at one wound. Again, Improved QS was amazing.
We simulated the same attack vs a Casstellan Knight with 3++, just to see what it did. The Tankbustas would have done 16 wounds to a Knight, not too shabby.

Gorkanaut charged the Immortals.
Meganobz charged the Destroyers.
Bikes the Stalker.
And shoota boyz the previously shot necron blob.

Gorkanaut killed 8 Immortals, a bit dissapointing considering it had 18 attacks.
Meganobz killed 2 Destroyers, and my opponent let an audible groans as he knew that all those Destoyers could now be reanimated >.
Despite being 12 shoota boyz, they were suprisingly effective in melee thanks to Warpath. They finished of a Warrior blob.
Bikers brought the Stalker down to 1 wound.

Necrons, turn 2.
Bah, the Reanimations went very poor this turn. 10 man Warrior blob only got 2 back, and out of the 5 destroyers only 1 managed to get back up.
The immortals faired a bit better, getting 5 out of the 8 casualties back.

The warrior blob stayed put, since they were gonna teleport out with the Veil so that they could still shoot. Immortals stayed put, since the Meganobz were right in front of them.
Destroyers fell back to shoot at the Meganobz.
C’tan moved up to claim the mid-field objective.

With the Stalker and one DDA having to fall back (and the other DDA being dead) my anti-tank was as good as gone. Though there was still a Battlewagon and a Gorkanaut right up in my face!
This left the infantry. Combined fire from the Destroyers and the immortals killed 2 Meganobz. In cover these bastards are quite tough!
The Veil’d Warriors finished the 12 Shoota boyz.

And in a last desperate move, Szeras and the Immortals charged the Meganobz. Bad idea; the Meganobz took 0 dmg and snipped Szeras in half like a piece of paper.

At this point I unfortunately had to go due to time, but the game was over anyway. The next ork turn the Destroyers, Immortals, Stalker and DDA would have all died, leaving the C’tan, Warriors and Overlord to be cleaned up the turn thereafter.

Post-game Thoughts:
Orks are definitely not a joke anymore. Almost all units my oppponent threw at me were of equal threat due to their speed. The two battlewagons, the Gorkanaut, the 30 unit.... it was very difficult for me to prioritize the biggest target.
Though Mephrit small-arms cut through the ork infantry like a hit knife through butter, their vehicles are tough as nails. Though with the Stalker being locked in combat from turn 1, not all my anti-tank got to shoot.
Still, I definitely expected both Battlewagons to fall in my first turn, but between a KFF and one battlewagon being T8, I underestimated their survivability!
It’s a shame the Warboss /w the Killy Klaw failed his charge, he really would have done a number on the Destroyers.
The Dakka Dakka rule overal felt.... ok. It gave. A bit more oompf to the overal Ork shooting, but I believe it still remains a close-combate orientated army.

All in all it was a very fun match and I look forward to battle the Greenskins again!

tneva82 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'm planning to create a deepstrike fest. 10 manz and 3 dreads. That's no less than 795 pts (no point to ds weaker dreads) but that might be ok for 1500 pt games.

795 pts is more than half the 1500 so good luck finding opponent allowing you to bypass the matched play rule.

 koooaei wrote:

Isn't it dependant on pl only? Cause i'm pretty sure i can fit this in pl.

Warhammer fall FAQ wrote:at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Tr ansports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere