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I also have a question for reece:

Do you feel the stompa is worth almost 1000 points?
If so, what is it better at than the same amount of points in nauts or deff dreads?

I've yet to read the Orky Index, but based on what I've heard so far: is it true you can mix choppa and shoota boyz in one unit? If so can shoota boyz fight in close combat? I figure they are exchanging their hand weapons for shoota - can it be used in the Fight phase?

 Reecius wrote:

Hey. Don't have much exp with 8-th so far - just played a single game - but i've got some questions.

- What do you think is the new niche for meganobz? Their damage has gone down significantly compared to their 7-th counterparts and their price skyrocketed! The good thing though is that you can footslog them if you want to. 4+ advance is ok. But just to point out, their damage vs meq has gone 60% down point-to point. A single MAN statistically chops down 1 marine. And i used them to deal with superheavies like knights. But now it doesn't seem to be the case any more.
When previously 5 bully boyz with 2 pairs of killsaws (220) in a trukk (35), 255 total, reliably downed a knight on the charge - statistically dealing 6+ hp of damage with killsaws alone, now a unit of 5 with 2 pairs of killsaws is 286 + 88 min for a trukk, 374 total, deal around 10 wounds to a knight. That's less than half. Sure, the knight has also gone up in price but...what's the purpose of manz? Their durability is deceptive as opponents no longer need troops and can easilly spam heavy multiple-damage weapons with all this new detachments. This remains to be seen, for sure, but i'm starting to regret having bought 15 of those at the end of 7-th.

- Burnas. You hinted us they'd be great with their shooting in the article. d3 shots...is nothing to write home about. You need 3 burnas to kill a single marine in the open and 6 in cover. They don't loose this -2 ap in mellee though, so it's a plus. But i'd rather have nobz for the price. Much more durable, choppier in mellee. Shooting...still doesn't do that much.

- Talking about cover in general. I really dislike how it works now. Unless you're playing on mordheim maps there's no way you get cover for anything trying to move across the board. Especially sad with kommandoes that are not likely to get to use their cover special rule as they'll never actually get cover if they want to attack something and not just get used as point-holders...pretty much the same way they've been used in 7-th. Can fish for that charge though. ~40% chance to charge is ok - especially if you get multiple 45 pt squads with nobz and 0 pt burnas. So, kommandoes are fine i guess. And the defenders get all the benefits without problems. My first game was vs a 25- devastator + cap + termie list where everything deployed in one woods and got 2+ armor. My whole army's shooting - and i had mek gunz, multiple squads of shootaboyz, burnas and k-skorchas could only kill 1-2 marines per turn.
All in all: Cover - me dislikes! Doesn't do anything good for boyz any more.

- Do stormboyz still suffer casualties for run+charge if there's a boss around?

- The main question. Why the hell your youtube channel has so few subscribers? You guyz are a lot of fun.

btw, my second game is going to be vs ~70 ig heavy weapon teams. Starting to dislike 8-th building method and some pricings. A 2-wound ig heavy team is 4 pts and a heavy bolter is 8. That's 12 pts - The exact same amount a bigshoota boy costs. Well, at least that's what i'm told. Maybe there's some mistake. Hope so.

Nah, that's not a mistake. HWT also still have a lazgun.

Hmmm, I might be missing it, but I don't see that Nobz have the ability to take a Power Stabba? It's not included as standard equipment, or listed on the Choppy Weapons list. Hopefully this will be addressed in a FAQ, or in the Orks codex when it comes out.

(EDIT: Nevermind, yes, it's there.)

Very amused with the Gretchin's "Surprisingly Dangerous in Large Numbers". BS 3+ Grots! haha...

Do you really think the sak is worth the cost? i mean it's heavy d6 and cost 100 points, plus unlike before, you can't add +1 bs for 5 point.

Only nob squads can take power stabbas. Btw, they get 50% increased damage vs meq over a choppa.

koooaei wrote:

- Burnas. You hinted us they'd be great with their shooting in the article. d3 shots...is nothing to write home about. You need 3 burnas to kill a single marine in the open and 6 in cover. They don't loose this -2 ap in mellee though, so it's a plus. But i'd rather have nobz for the price. Much more durable, choppier in mellee. Shooting...still doesn't do that much.

I was wondering this. I mean as you said, d3 shots. In comparison to old flamers maybe getting 3-4 standard, and more if you positioned well. Now there is almost no reason. You dont ignore cover. So anyone in cover still gets a +1 (that is right yeh?). They have no AP modifier. Str 4, so still wounding on 4s most likely, and 5's for T5+. So a squad of 5, average 7.5 hits. which is quite a lot less than what they could do before. I suppose though, averages aren't best. with a d3, you still have a 2/3 chance of doing 10 or 15 hits. And they do have the AP in combat.

I dont have the points for burnas at hand, but as you mentioned, kommandos get 2 burnas free. they are ~49 points or something. I have a feeling kommandos will be one of our go to units and i have a few thoughts on that in a minute. What seems to hurt burnas compared to the rest of our army is that if burna's are supposed to cut through chaff, they just dont seem to have the weight of shooting. A charging equivalent unit of boyz would probably be better at cutting through chaff. Secondly, if for example you were only able to get within just 8" for your burnas and you do kill some chaff. If the enemy plays it right and takes from the front your going to hurt your charge range. That unit then gets overwatch anyway. Im not sure. I loved burna models and I had hoped they would do a few more hits. We will have to see. Maybe they will be effective for pilling wounds onto stuff like MCs. As you'll still get to charge after with your AP weapons, you hit first, and theres no chance of you removing models to prevent you charging.

- Talking about cover in general. I really dislike how it works now. Unless you're playing on mordheim maps there's no way you get cover for anything trying to move across the board. Especially sad with kommandoes that are not likely to get to use their cover special rule as they'll never actually get cover if they want to attack something and not just get used as point-holders...pretty much the same way they've been used in 7-th. Can fish for that charge though. ~40% chance to charge is ok - especially if you get multiple 45 pt squads with nobz and 0 pt burnas. So, kommandoes are fine i guess. And the defenders get all the benefits without problems. My first game was vs a 25- devastator + cap + termie list where everything deployed in one woods and got 2+ armor. My whole army's shooting - and i had mek gunz, multiple squads of shootaboyz, burnas and k-skorchas could only kill 1-2 marines per turn.
All in all: Cover - me dislikes! Doesn't do anything good for boyz any more.

OK ive found the advanced rules. So; You lose 2" when charging through woods/craters etc... BUT not ruins.
Hmm this is annoying to say the least. I mean it is the advanced rules, and we will have to see how it is decided to be played. But it certainly does make the idea of charging into cover a lot more ugly. So the defenders get +1 save, reduced charge range to whoever charges (including defenders if they charge, as they are on the terrain base too).

Do infantry still provide cover to infantry behind?
One niche thing I thought about was that bringing multiple min kommando's units. At the end of your movement phase (say you have a footslogging list) you can elect to place your min kommando's units directly in front (9" rule is the only thing to be aware of). So you have a cheap 5 man chaff unit that can pretty much pop up anywhere, they provide cover saves to those behind (?), they have 2 burnas as overwatch deterrents and AP weapons. And with it always being at the end of your movement phase, you are guaranteed to be able to plan it. Unlike with the old DS where you would scatter, run etc...

btw, my second game is going to be vs ~70 ig heavy weapon teams. Starting to dislike 8-th building method and some pricings. A 2-wound ig heavy team is 4 pts and a heavy bolter is 8. That's 12 pts - The exact same amount a bigshoota boy costs. Well, at least that's what i'm told. Maybe there's some mistake. Hope so.

Nah, that's not a mistake. HWT also still have a lazgun.

Yeh I forsee some cheesy stuff coming in with the new formations. Will just have to see how it plays out. As the argument is they are available to all. So say the meta becomes this plasma dude spam. You'd just run a tide and watch the horror on their face as they realise they literally cant shoot enough to kill you. We will see.

little-killer wrote:Do you really think the sak is worth the cost? i mean it's heavy d6 and cost 100 points, plus unlike before, you can't add +1 bs for 5 point.

Nope, D6, so even with a 6, you only hit with 2 shots. and its 2D6 str. Seems wayyyyyy too random now. Before the blast meant you could reliably at least hit stuff and re-roll for scatter. Or get a fun effect. Which you get none of now.

I wonder why flamers got d6 hits and burnas got d3...

Also.. I keep seeing that komandos get free burnas.. where is everyone seeing this? Why dont they have to pay the points for them?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I wonder why flamers got d6 hits and burnas got d3...

because you can't spam groups of twenty flamers

20d6 auto hits is pretty obnoxious, particularly when you get to put them in a wagon and spent the game hiting people with it

But in 7th if you had 5-6 under the template you had 20d6 auto hits. and they could be chilling in a wagon o_O

Or am I remembering it wrong? I have only played like 2-3 games in 7th. I hoped on board the sigmar train and have had a load of fun. Really excited about 8th though.

gungo wrote:
@reecius is it intended for a bomb squig to be embarked on something like the firestorm redoubt and fire all the emplaced weapons on a bs2+

So I was looking at this more (because I was going to do it myself) and I couldn't find anything in the rules for Fortifications or in Stronghold Assault where manning the guns lets you use the shooters BS, only that the gun can target something besides the closest target. I'll still try it out, but I'm pretty disappointed.


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gungo wrote:
Question does anyone know which plastic set I need for the forgeworld kommando upgrade set. Hopefully it's basic boys as I have an extra sprue of those from shadowwar armeggedon.

Yeah those are definitely regular slugga boys pictured on the FW site. Not sure about the Nob though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zend wrote:


Stikkbombs are hilarious when you have a large blob now that they're D6 shooting weapons.

Unfortunately the grenade rules only let one model in a unit throw a grenade during shooting. I really wanted this to be a thing too when I first saw the rules.

Thanks for being in here, Reece.

Question: Just to be clear, meks can't repair when embarked... correct?

So, I'm looking at my Dread Mob:

If you combine a Battalion and a Spearhead detachments you get:
3+3+1 - 7 CP
3-5 HQ
3-9 Troop
0-8 Elite
0-5 Fast Attack
3-9 Heavy Support
0-4 Flyers

Seems like a great start. Based on what I already have:

3 Units of Boyz in Trukks
1 Unit of 2 Deff Dreads
2 Units of 5 Killa Kans

I'd need a minimum of 3 HQ
Thinking 1-2 Warbosses on Bikes
Thinking 1-2 Big Mek on Bikes

gungo wrote:
Question does anyone know which plastic set I need for the forgeworld kommando upgrade set. Hopefully it's basic boys as I have an extra sprue of those from shadowwar armeggedon.

The ork models from the boyz sprues or the loota/burna box work, though the first one is more cost efficient.

With a bit of green stuff, you can also make AOBR boyz work.

Great to see Reece chiming in! Thanks for the tips and thoughts! I really need to get some stormboyz and buggies...

Played my first game with Orks against the Thousand Sons, and it was a doozy. My takeaways were:
-Cover is not so great for Orks, whereas on the other side of the table my opponent was rolling mostly 2+ saves. Without a good save to start with, cover isn't doing much for you in this edition.
-Sorcerer/psyker spam is going to be a big deal in the meta going forward IMO. The ability to put out a large number of mortal wounds a turn is devastating. Hiding in combat won't save you from psykers, either! My nobz and trukkz took a real beating from those units.
-Nobz are stellar. I leaned on them heavily last edition for fluff reasons but now they've been significantly improved so I'm quite pleased. The cost feels far more worth it now, and even with just a few big choppas and a couple of characters to support the unit, they get really scary.

 koooaei wrote:
Only nob squads can take power stabbas. Btw, they get 50% increased damage vs meq over a choppa.

Yes, I understand that. The problem is that the unit entry for Nobz does not have a permission clause that grants them the ability to swap out Choppas for Power Stabbas. It should have something like, "Nobz or Boss Nobz may exchange their Choppas for Power Stabbas". Or include Power Stabbas on the Choppy Weapons list. Seems like an oversight. I'm sure people will just house rule it, so not a big deal for non-competitive games.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see it now. Cool.

I have a question, Reece. I was wondering if Flash Gitz suffer a -1 to their BS when embarked on a moving Battlewagon? The Battlewagon has the Mobile Fortress rule stating it doesn't suffer the penalty for moving and Open Topped states that the embarked unit acts just like the Battlewagon when it comes to various scenarios. Thanks for you help with this question.

 Cleatus wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Only nob squads can take power stabbas. Btw, they get 50% increased damage vs meq over a choppa.

Yes, I understand that. The problem is that the unit entry for Nobz does not have a permission clause that grants them the ability to swap out Choppas for Power Stabbas. It should have something like, "Nobz or Boss Nobz may exchange their Choppas for Power Stabbas". Or include Power Stabbas on the Choppy Weapons list. Seems like an oversight. I'm sure people will just house rule it, so not a big deal for non-competitive games.

eh, yes it does. It specifically lists powa stabba as an option to replace the choppa for any nob. Further it says you can take from the choppy list

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I wonder why flamers got d6 hits and burnas got d3...

Also.. I keep seeing that komandos get free burnas.. where is everyone seeing this? Why dont they have to pay the points for them?

Look at the index. Burnas (the model) are 14 and carry a burna (the weapon) for zero. It is different than tankbustsas, who are 5 for the model and pay 12 for the rokkit. Why GW did it this way is beyond me.

So any time you take a burna (weapon) it's free. I think it's a mistake; expect it to be corrected next year at the latest.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I wonder why flamers got d6 hits and burnas got d3...

Also.. I keep seeing that komandos get free burnas.. where is everyone seeing this? Why dont they have to pay the points for them?

Look at the index. Burnas (the model) are 14 and carry a burna (the weapon) for zero. It is different than tankbustsas, who are 5 for the model and pay 12 for the rokkit. Why GW did it this way is beyond me.

So any time you take a burna (weapon) it's free. I think it's a mistake; expect it to be corrected next year at the latest.

Yeah but when you got on the field you can't use them turn 1 since you are at 9" and it's 8".

For those lucky few who are already playing;

-I am excited to hear the Deff Rolla is back. Are any of the shooting options viable on the Battlewagon? Is there any reason to take a wrecking ball or grabbin klaw if I already have a Deff Rolla?

-I have always wanted to run Nobz, what size units should I be organizing units in? I am sort of generating a to do list to put together since most of my Nobz are half assembled. Is the Combi-Skorcha a win? What bit are we even using for a power stabba(stikka?), and what weaponz are we using in Nobz squads?

-I have always wanted to bring some Mekz with KMB for thematic reasons not relevant to tactics. Hearing that output numbers on Burna are bad already has me thinking that Burnas and Mekz with KMB are turning up lame. Shelve this idea for now?

-Is the Gorkanaught living up to the hype?

-Killa Kanz, I may likely be running Orkz in vehicles but are the Kanz surviving long enough to turn a positive points output from shooting. Which weapons are looking good on them right now soo far?

-Big Mek with SAG, I have two of these but don't play with them. I heard the table is gone and the SAG is hitting hard. Is sticking one or two of these in the back behind some objective holders looking successful?

 Rismonite wrote:
Is there any reason to take a wrecking ball or grabbin klaw if I already have a Deff Rolla?

Certainly dont; the deffrolla is better in all ways. except cost.

Save the balls for trukks, the rollas for wagons.

 davou wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Only nob squads can take power stabbas. Btw, they get 50% increased damage vs meq over a choppa.

Yes, I understand that. The problem is that the unit entry for Nobz does not have a permission clause that grants them the ability to swap out Choppas for Power Stabbas. It should have something like, "Nobz or Boss Nobz may exchange their Choppas for Power Stabbas". Or include Power Stabbas on the Choppy Weapons list. Seems like an oversight. I'm sure people will just house rule it, so not a big deal for non-competitive games.

eh, yes it does. It specifically lists powa stabba as an option to replace the choppa for any nob. Further it says you can take from the choppy list

I stand corrected. I see it now.
"Any model may replace its choppa with a killsaw, power stabba or one item from the Choppy Weapons list."
I'm having trouble with this new format and the syntax of some of these unit entries. Or I'm getting old and need new glasses.

Anyway, back to the WAAAAGH!

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I wonder why flamers got d6 hits and burnas got d3...

Also.. I keep seeing that komandos get free burnas.. where is everyone seeing this? Why dont they have to pay the points for them?

Look at the index. Burnas (the model) are 14 and carry a burna (the weapon) for zero. It is different than tankbustsas, who are 5 for the model and pay 12 for the rokkit. Why GW did it this way is beyond me.

So any time you take a burna (weapon) it's free. I think it's a mistake; expect it to be corrected next year at the latest.

I hope the fix is to give burnas a special rule to "ignore cover" saves to make them better then kommandos because if the fix is to make burnas 9 points it would just make burnas and kommandos worse. Orks can use a short range unit that removes cover since 2+ save marines are a real thing.

Furthermore does anyone know which is better vs MEQ (ignoring range) mathematically is a rokkit at str8 wounding on 2+ and ap-2 and 3 damage better then a pair of rokkit pistols that are 2x str7 wounding on a 3+ and ap-2 and doing d3 damage? Ok seems like pistols are slightly more damage although not a huge amount but it's spread out in average of 2 damage each hit.


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little-killer wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I wonder why flamers got d6 hits and burnas got d3...

Also.. I keep seeing that komandos get free burnas.. where is everyone seeing this? Why dont they have to pay the points for them?

Look at the index. Burnas (the model) are 14 and carry a burna (the weapon) for zero. It is different than tankbustsas, who are 5 for the model and pay 12 for the rokkit. Why GW did it this way is beyond me.

So any time you take a burna (weapon) it's free. I think it's a mistake; expect it to be corrected next year at the latest.

Yeah but when you got on the field you can't use them turn 1 since you are at 9" and it's 8".

honestly for kommandos who want to charge turn 1 and tie up shooty units it doesn't matter as burnas are one of the best melee weapons for basic boys. Also people tend to get the rules for cover confused. Charging into or out of cover reducing the charge range is an advanced rule and not part of the core rules. If the advanced rules are not used kommandos are excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77HZpu6v0OA

8th ed video batrep - Orks vs BA

While we're talking about Kommandos, it took me a while to notice but they actually have a 6" move!

That combined with 4+ saves in cover and I actually really like them. Keeping them off the board makes for a flexible unit that can "deepstrike" where's it needed. Making a big charge? Boom, 10 more boyz. Opponent rushing to cover? Boom, filled with orks. Jetpacks jumping away? Boom, we're already behind you.

Unrelated rules questions-
Does a mob of 10 boyz standing next to a mob of 30 boyz get to use LD30 thanks to mob rule part 2?
Do a unit of Flash Gitz in a battlewagon ignore penalties when moving, thanks to mobile fortress?

-Killa Kanz, I may likely be running Orkz in vehicles but are the Kanz surviving long enough to turn a positive points output from shooting. Which weapons are looking good on them right now soo far?

I ran a unit of three, and they just got rocked due to leadership- LD6 is risky on units that expensive. But rokkits hitting on 4+ is great!

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

Does a mob of 10 boyz standing next to a mob of 30 boyz get to use LD30 thanks to mob rule part 2?
Do a unit of Flash Gitz in a battlewagon ignore penalties when moving, thanks to mobile fortress?

Yes to both!

 davou wrote:

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

Does a mob of 10 boyz standing next to a mob of 30 boyz get to use LD30 thanks to mob rule part 2?
Do a unit of Flash Gitz in a battlewagon ignore penalties when moving, thanks to mobile fortress?

Yes to both!

Is that just us ork players using our gestalt psychic belief field to make it so? Or do we have some solid intel on that? Because reading it, I feel like it could go either way.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 davou wrote:

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

Does a mob of 10 boyz standing next to a mob of 30 boyz get to use LD30 thanks to mob rule part 2?
Do a unit of Flash Gitz in a battlewagon ignore penalties when moving, thanks to mobile fortress?

Yes to both!

Is that just us ork players using our gestalt psychic belief field to make it so? Or do we have some solid intel on that? Because reading it, I feel like it could go either way.

The first question sounds like the entire point of mob rules.
The second question should work that way becuase of the open top transport rules that state occupants can fire following all normal rules for the vehicle.

What do people think of this list. I have 95% of the models for it and it seems fairly competitive.

Warboss (pk, atk squig, shoota) = 80
Boss zagstruk =88

30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoota) = 180
30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoots) = 180

Nob with waaagh banner (kustom shoota) = 79
5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig) = 95
5 tankbustas (5 rokkit launcha, nob, bomb squig) = 95
-trukk (big shoota, wrecking ball) = 85
5 tankbustas (4 pairs of rokkit pistols, nob w big choppa, bomb squig) = 92
-trukk (big shoota, wrecking ball) = 85
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45
5 kommandos (2 burnas, nob) = 45

Deffkopta (bomb, twin shoota) = 69
Deffkopta (bomb, twin shoota) = 69
Deffkopta (bomb, twin shoota) = 69
15 stormboys (nob w big choppa) = 129

Mekgun (kmk, 5 grots) = 48
Mekgun (Kmk, 5 grots) = 48
Morkanaut (kff, kmb, 2 twin big shoota, 2 rokkit launcha, kmk, klaw of gork) = 374

2000 total

Anyone noticed Flash Gitz Kaptin has only Ld6? And their stikkbombs are Grenade D3 instead of D6. Seems like a typo.

Wouldn't it be fun if burnas being D3 was also a typo?

 Rismonite wrote:
-I have always wanted to run Nobz, what size units should I be organizing units in? I am sort of generating a to do list to put together since most of my Nobz are half assembled. Is the Combi-Skorcha a win? What bit are we even using for a power stabba(stikka?), and what weaponz are we using in Nobz squads?

Big choppas are cheap and effective upgrades. Combi-skorcha is a nice touch, but I would just kit them all for close combat. Even with just a slugga/choppa they can do work, extra attacks are pretty good.

-I have always wanted to bring some Mekz with KMB for thematic reasons not relevant to tactics. Hearing that output numbers on Burna are bad already has me thinking that Burnas and Mekz with KMB are turning up lame. Shelve this idea for now?

Burnas and mekboys are still tight, even with only d3 flamer hits you get a good CC weapon to back it up and can take some KMB meks to bring a plasma gun or two. I also just like the look of KMBs

-Big Mek with SAG, I have two of these but don't play with them. I heard the table is gone and the SAG is hitting hard. Is sticking one or two of these in the back behind some objective holders looking successful?

Very much de-powered - before they were swingy, now they're swingy but with a much smaller top end. Not worth taking IMO as backline support, big guns are still way more efficient.