Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**little-killer**

DoomMouse wrote:
Any thoughts on green tide in this edition? I've got an ork army that hasn't seen daylight since 5th edition

add ghazkhull and weirdboy and waaaaaaghhhh!!!

**koooaei**

Glitcha wrote:

Kans...more than 3

How did they handle morale issues? IIRC they don't benefit from mob rule. So if you loose a couple kans, a few more can run away.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

little-killer wrote:
DoomMouse wrote:
Any thoughts on green tide in this edition? I've got an ork army that hasn't seen daylight since 5th edition

add ghazkhull and weirdboy and waaaaaaghhhh!!!

It's hard to say if it's worth taking more than one wierdboy cause you can't cast same power more than once per phase. Painboss can heal up inevitable damage from perils and even protect from a wound with 6+++. I might be wrong but fnp works in a way that you save vs damage suffered, so to save an overcharged plasma you need to pass two 6+ saves.

Take stormboyz - they fit the greentide theme and are pretty good.

**gungo**

Off topic but back to fortifications. Where are the rules for the shadow war terrain?

**JohnU**

Well if you're feeling lucky (and silly) you can have one weirdboy Warpath Ghazzy, the other one Jump him, then hope those charge rolls work out for you. With the warlord trait he has 8 attacks on the charge.

**zend**

So wait, you can only cast the same spell once per phase period or once per character that knows it?

Also can Koptas turbo boost and drop their bomms in the same turn?

**JohnU**

zend wrote:
So wait, you can only cast the same spell once per phase period or once per character that knows it?

Also can Koptas turbo boost and drop their bomms in the same turn?

You can only attempt to manifest the power once per turn, so if Weirdboy A fails to cast Da Jump Weirdboy B can't try on the same turn. The exception is Smite, which has no limits.

Advancing is just part of your movement, so you can still use your bomm (but can't charge later).

**gungo**

Other than spite once per turn.

Koptas can advance and drop bombs. Advance is part of movement during the movement phase. You roll for advance (if required)add it to movement and then move your model up to that amount. This is why a 3-4x kopta squad dropping bombs on a unit of 5+ terminators, bikers or equivilant first turn is funny. As the unit takes ~7 mortal wounds w no saves or wound rolls. However they are not so good vs single model units such as imperial knights.

**little-killer**

little-killer wrote:
DoomMouse wrote:
Any thoughts on green tide in this edition? I've got an ork army that hasn't seen daylight since 5th edition

add ghazkhull and weirdboy and waaaaaaghhhh!!!

It's hard to say if it's worth taking more than one wierdboy cause you can't cast same power more than once per phase. Painboss can heal up inevitable damage from perils and even protect from a wound with 6+++. I might be wrong but fnp works in a way that you save vs damage suffered, so to save an overcharged plasma you need to pass two 6+ saves.

Take stormboyz - they fit the greentide theme and are pretty good.

**Dojo**

Soss wrote:
Does anybody me know if Orks can take an Imperial Bunker in 8th? I used to take one to put my Lootas in for 7th and even have a scratch built one that is Orkified.

I did the exact same thing, lootas went inside that.

**Jidmah**

little-killer wrote:They should put that in the core rules? or you were joking about taking fortifications for other armies.

Yes, they should. I own an aegis defense line and tried to find its rules anywhere so I skipped through all the indexes to find them.
All fortifications have "faction: unalligned" so you can use them in any army.
The only joke is that anybody but non-marine imperials needs to buy an extra book to field them.

DoomMouse wrote:Any thoughts on green tide in this edition? I've got an ork army that hasn't seen daylight since 5th edition

Currently it seems like lots of boyz+characters is pretty viable, so with a couple of pain boyz, warbosses, banner nobz and maybe something carrying a KFF your should be good to go. From what I've read so far you should just make sure to bring something to handle units with high T and lots of wounds.

**Pedroig**

little-killer wrote:

little-killer wrote:
DoomMouse wrote:

Not sure about that, it said a psyker cannot manifest a psychic power twice, for me it means if you can manifest 2 powers with one psyker, you can't do the same spell twice, but you can do spell A with psyker 1 and spell A with psyker 2 but not Spell A and spell A with only psyker 1.

Matched play only allows one manifest attempt per psychic phase, versus once per psyker. The exception is Smite. pg. 215 in the highlight box.

**skyfi**

Curious what y'all think of grots this edition with obj capping at # of models? Would a brigade list full of kans bws full of grots and maybe a moral/gorkanot? Like 12+ command points a game 12 kans 2 big walkers 3 kff mek in ma? Supported with small units of commandos and outflanking fast attack? Could a bw be a viable gun ship / melee unit while carrying around "useless" grots? Who now can get +1 attack if 20+ models and can wound anything in the game? Plus armed with pistols they can still fire their guns at whoever the BW is meleeinf?

Trying to think of some out of the box competitive options maybe. Like, who cares if them the grots kill enemy or not? Last turn jump out on objectives from your hopefully still alive fleet of transports and cap obj? Even in a normal combined arms list I think a BW full of cheap grots being delivered to outnumber guardsmen on a obj is a good idea

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A second thought

I only saw one mission in my read thru that unit type had any bearing on scoring an obj?? Only big guns never tire where a heavy caps the obj regardless of being outnumbered ? If that's to be an expected mission in tourney, BW mork gork kans gits lootas seem to have a highlighted importance? Did I miss missions aside from this one where "heavy" is more important?

**JohnU**

The 20+ Grot ability is +1 to hit (so +4). They also don't have mob rule so if you're planning on using bigger groups you're gonna want a Runtherd with them.

I still like them as cheap deepstrike area denial or chaff for eating charges, but for now it's not a Grot edition for me.

**little-killer**

Pedroig wrote:
little-killer wrote:

little-killer wrote:
DoomMouse wrote:

Not sure about that, it said a psyker cannot manifest a psychic power twice, for me it means if you can manifest 2 powers with one psyker, you can't do the same spell twice, but you can do spell A with psyker 1 and spell A with psyker 2 but not Spell A and spell A with only psyker 1.

Matched play only allows one manifest attempt per psychic phase, versus once per psyker. The exception is Smite. pg. 215 in the highlight box.

Ah yeah found it, they don't say that in the core rules so yeah mb,

feth that seemed really fun to tp many units in one turn

**GrimTeef**

Glitcha wrote:
Played a game list night against a big bug list. Won the game 8-1. Below is my list

Spearhead detachment
HQ
Big mek + KFF + grot oiler < deployed in Gorkanaut

Big mek in mega armor + KFF + Killsaw + grot oiler

Heavy support
Gorkanaut
Morkanaut
3 deff dreads (dread with 3 arms and rokket, dread with 2 arms and 2 skorchas, dread with 2 arms and 2 big shootas)
Squad of 6 Kill Kans (4 big shootas, skorcha, grotzooka)
Squad of 10 lootas + spanner boy

Elite
Burna boyz (2 spannerz 3 burnas) < deployed inside Morkanaut

The theme for this list is dreads and big stompy robots. Also wanted to see how well the repair ability works. Oddly enough this even works in CC now. Big mek has a 3" bubble of repair/heal ability. I deployed him in a ring of Kill kans. Gives the Kans a 5++ and shields my big mek in mega armor from being shoot at and assaulted. Yep that's right, big mek on foot running solo. Then he can stand back and repair the kans as they fight or walk over to any of the other vehicles and repair them. (d3+1 wounds a turn with a grot oiler) You can only fix 1 kan at a time.

Kans are beast in CC. Now you only hit on a 5+, but you can take a squad of 6 of them now! If the squad is more than 3, each can gets 1 more attack. This gives each kan 4 attacks at str 8 ap -3 for 3 dmg.

My opponent got a prime with a unit of warriors in a tunnel. They popped up and then assaulted me. The warriros killed 1 of my mek units that got out of the morkanaut to repair it. (Kind of stupid, but its how its done.) The Prime made it into combat with the Gorkanaut. He punched first and did 6 wounds. I punched back with the klaw of gork in crush mode and did 18 wounds of damage to him. Gorkanaut and Morkanaut are amazing in combat. You can either crush for str x2 ap-4 dmg 6 4-6 attacks or you can smash for 12-18 str users ap -2 dmg 2 each. If you are fighting big stuff, I'd crush for big damage. If you are fighting infantry, including terminators, smash!

Command points are going to key for the orks getting our timing right for assaults. I would always save 1 point for the reroll.

Thanks for your list and the game breakdown. This is close to what I am considering running for my first 8th-ed ork lists, and am glad that from your report and other battle reports I've seen that Dread Mob is back and actually viable.

I've heard mixed stories on the effectiveness of Kanz. It seems that they are at least 50-50 though, so I'm sure I'll be running at least 6 of them (9maybe 9 or 12, depending on points).

One good thing to note is that it would be worthwhile to run a Nob with Waaagh Banner near them, as Kanz benefit from the +1 to hit from the Banner, since it affects <Clan> units, not just orks. This would add quite a bit of hitting power to a unit of 3+ kanz getting that extra attack.

**SemperMortis**

For Grots there ability is +1 to hit. Does anyone know if that means WS or BS?

Honestly it won't matter to much for shooting since they still can't take any guns worth a damn :(

On the flipside I am starting to think running a banner nob behind 2 units of Killa Kanz with maybe a big mek or two with KFFs might be a good idea. 6 Kanz would then be 4 attacks each hitting on 4s instead of 5s and with the Big Mek nearby he can heal and save them from anti tank weapons

**Latro_**

SemperMortis wrote:
For Grots there ability is +1 to hit. Does anyone know if that means WS or BS?

Honestly it won't matter to much for shooting since they still can't take any guns worth a damn :(

On the flipside I am starting to think running a banner nob behind 2 units of Killa Kanz with maybe a big mek or two with KFFs might be a good idea. 6 Kanz would then be 4 attacks each hitting on 4s instead of 5s and with the Big Mek nearby he can heal and save them from anti tank weapons

It specifically says hit rolls, so 2o+ CC its 4's shooting its 3's

**Sal4m4nd3r**

If you taking a wagon for the purposes of a "gun boat" and stuffing in some lootas or gitz, does it make sense to add as much firepower to the wagon as possible? Rokkits used to be 5points each so adding 4 was only 20. Now adding 4 rokkits is 48 points! thats almost 2 powerklaws!! Not sure its worth it. And I have always been underhwlmed by the kill kannon, but I guess I/we should try it out a few times before falling back on old assumptions.

I'm wondering if I should trick out wagons for max dakka or bare bones mobile firing platform. You gits have any thoughts on this?

**JohnU**

Too rich for my blood. Since we don't need weapons to help ward off immobilize results I'm keeping mine naked with a deff rolla at most.

**Sledgio**

GrimTeef wrote:
Glitcha wrote:
Played a game list night against a big bug list. Won the game 8-1. Below is my list

Spearhead detachment
HQ
Big mek + KFF + grot oiler < deployed in Gorkanaut

Big mek in mega armor + KFF + Killsaw + grot oiler

Heavy support
Gorkanaut
Morkanaut
3 deff dreads (dread with 3 arms and rokket, dread with 2 arms and 2 skorchas, dread with 2 arms and 2 big shootas)
Squad of 6 Kill Kans (4 big shootas, skorcha, grotzooka)
Squad of 10 lootas + spanner boy

Elite
Burna boyz (2 spannerz 3 burnas) < deployed inside Morkanaut

The theme for this list is dreads and big stompy robots. Also wanted to see how well the repair ability works. Oddly enough this even works in CC now. Big mek has a 3" bubble of repair/heal ability. I deployed him in a ring of Kill kans. Gives the Kans a 5++ and shields my big mek in mega armor from being shoot at and assaulted. Yep that's right, big mek on foot running solo. Then he can stand back and repair the kans as they fight or walk over to any of the other vehicles and repair them. (d3+1 wounds a turn with a grot oiler) You can only fix 1 kan at a time.

Kans are beast in CC. Now you only hit on a 5+, but you can take a squad of 6 of them now! If the squad is more than 3, each can gets 1 more attack. This gives each kan 4 attacks at str 8 ap -3 for 3 dmg.

My opponent got a prime with a unit of warriors in a tunnel. They popped up and then assaulted me. The warriros killed 1 of my mek units that got out of the morkanaut to repair it. (Kind of stupid, but its how its done.) The Prime made it into combat with the Gorkanaut. He punched first and did 6 wounds. I punched back with the klaw of gork in crush mode and did 18 wounds of damage to him. Gorkanaut and Morkanaut are amazing in combat. You can either crush for str x2 ap-4 dmg 6 4-6 attacks or you can smash for 12-18 str users ap -2 dmg 2 each. If you are fighting big stuff, I'd crush for big damage. If you are fighting infantry, including terminators, smash!

Command points are going to key for the orks getting our timing right for assaults. I would always save 1 point for the reroll.

Thanks for your list and the game breakdown. This is close to what I am considering running for my first 8th-ed ork lists, and am glad that from your report and other battle reports I've seen that Dread Mob is back and actually viable.

I've heard mixed stories on the effectiveness of Kanz. It seems that they are at least 50-50 though, so I'm sure I'll be running at least 6 of them (9maybe 9 or 12, depending on points).

One good thing to note is that it would be worthwhile to run a Nob with Waaagh Banner near them, as Kanz benefit from the +1 to hit from the Banner, since it affects <Clan> units, not just orks. This would add quite a bit of hitting power to a unit of 3+ kanz getting that extra attack.

What benefit here is there for putting the KFFs on the second Mek and not the Morkanaut?

**SemperMortis**

JohnU wrote:
Too rich for my blood. Since we don't need weapons to help ward off immobilize results I'm keeping mine naked with a deff rolla at most.

This, At the absolute most I might fill it with Big Shootas just to add some more dakka to the thing. Kannonz/Kill Kannonz/Lobbas/Zzap gunz are all useless on this thing.

Battlewagonz are either going to be delivery system for Boyz or Bunkers for Lootas.

I am not sold yet at all on the Flash Gitz. At 27pts a full unit of 10 in a Battlewagon will run you around 430pts without upgrades and will give you 30 S5 Shots with -2 AP and hitting on 4s. So 15 hits and against T4 thats 10 wounds so it will only kill 6-7 Tactical Marines a turn.

On the other hand, filling that thing with 4 MSU Lootas gives you on average 40 S7 shots a turn from 4 different units meaning you can shoot 4 different targets. 5 Lootas will hit about 3 times a turn on average meaning 2-3 wounds a turn and at D2 its decent, not game changing not super effective but not bad. Also 20 Lootas in a Wagon = 520pts. Wicked expensive but its 5 units in one

**Ashkayel**

SemperMortis wrote:
JohnU wrote:
Too rich for my blood. Since we don't need weapons to help ward off immobilize results I'm keeping mine naked with a deff rolla at most.
On the other hand, filling that thing with 4 MSU Lootas gives you on average 40 S7 shots a turn from 4 different units meaning you can shoot 4 different targets. 5 Lootas will hit about 3 times a turn on average meaning 2-3 wounds a turn and at D2 its decent, not game changing not super effective but not bad. Also 20 Lootas in a Wagon = 520pts. Wicked expensive but its 5 units in one

In 8th you can split your shots towards different targets in a single squad. However, having 4x5 lootas gives you better odds for Heavy ~2. I wonder if it really helps for morale (don't benefit from mob rule but can allocate 5 explosion deaths to a single squad and others are ok).

**gungo**

Ashkayel wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
JohnU wrote:
Too rich for my blood. Since we don't need weapons to help ward off immobilize results I'm keeping mine naked with a deff rolla at most.
On the other hand, filling that thing with 4 MSU Lootas gives you on average 40 S7 shots a turn from 4 different units meaning you can shoot 4 different targets. 5 Lootas will hit about 3 times a turn on average meaning 2-3 wounds a turn and at D2 its decent, not game changing not super effective but not bad. Also 20 Lootas in a Wagon = 520pts. Wicked expensive but its 5 units in one

In 8th you can split your shots towards different targets in a single squad. However, having 4x5 lootas gives you better odds for Heavy ~2. I wonder if it really helps for morale (don't benefit from mob rule but can allocate 5 explosion deaths to a single squad and others are ok).

its only really good if exactly 5 models die or to limit morale tests to specific units so that you don't lose all your boys. On squads with LD7 its definitely better to MSU as you can give each unit a single casualty before they even have a chance to fail a test.

Ok here is another kick in the nuts I read today. The exact rule for close combat says you have to be WITHIN 1" not at 1" to be in closecombat and the exact rule for all the new deepstrike or infiltrate rules is you have to be over 9'. This definitely reinforced the need for a 9" charge roll in order to make it into close combat.

**JohnU**

Can split it up two units of 5 and one unit of 10 for a little better leadership.

Or have a blob of Stormboyz chase them around and ward off assaults.

**Sal4m4nd3r**

Forgetting about leadership, I think it would be better to have 1 squad of 20 because if you roll a one for those shots, you can use 1 command point for a re-roll. So a really good chance of getting a 3

**SemperMortis**

Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Forgetting about leadership, I think it would be better to have 1 squad of 20 because if you roll a one for those shots, you can use 1 command point for a re-roll. So a really good chance of getting a 3

True, but with 4 units you are guaranteeing more average results. SO its more likely you will get 2 shots on average from each unit and it won't be as damaging when you roll a 1-2 for the unit.

Also as a side note, every unit has split fire now, but does that mean everyone can use it or does it say you a weapon type. I think the primary purpose of that is to give SMs a reason to take a Lascannon and a Flamer in the same Tac squad, or a HB on a scout squad.

I really wish Lootas would be D3+1 shots, especially with the increase in price and the loss of good cover saves teamed with their piss poor Accuracy. On conversely let us pay 1-3pts for each model to be given a Git Finda to make them BS3

**Soss**

Does the Wrecking Ball for a Truck replace the normal attacks or does it add 3 Wrecking Ball attacks? If it replaces how does it affect the Damage Chart number of attacks?

**JohnU**

Choosing targets when shooting is done on a per model basis, even if they all have the same weapon.

For the Trukk, assuming it isn't damaged, it can make 3 attacks with it's normal profile, or 3 attacks with the Wrecking Ball profile, or any combination in between. Same thing if it's damaged, just with fewer attacks to choose.

**momfreeek**

JohnU wrote:
Choosing targets when shooting is done on a per model basis, even if they all have the same weapon.

But you split the fire before rolling any dice, so its still an advantage to have multiple smaller units then you can wait to see how one unit performs before choosing where the second unit aims.

**koooaei**

You need 510 pt of lootas to wreck a rhino. I'd not consider lootas to be effective passangers for a wagon.