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IMHO a single 30 boyz squad is dead in a single turn if the opponent has to bring them down. A biker boss is way more reliable.

I agree about bomb squigs

 Blackie wrote:
Make sure the banner allows ghaz and/or a warboss with p.klaw to hit on 2s

Not sure if this changes your calculus, but Ghazzy gets a special PK that doesn't have the -1 to hit penalty, he already hits on 2's

so a couple observations after more games. biker boyz were pretty good last edition, one of our only real options, now with str 3 wounding on 5's not 6's that extra toughness seems less worth it. maybe I will be proven wrong, but ork and space marines bikes took a hit and points do not seem to reflect it. the lack of attacks beyond a normal bike for a boy was offset by being wounded on 6's often in close combat outside of marines or necrons.

nob bikers still do work though the more attacks and big choppas/ pk mean the lack of volume is not as important as their strength of attacks.

I have a Wazbom Blastajet unassembled, any of his loadouts look useful in a 'one of each' flier list?

I'd just use the extra supa shootas and the tellyport blastas myself. The KFF is pricey and can be hard to use properly with the flyer movement rules. The amount of shots from the mega-kannon could be suicidal for the plane. If 1's don't scare you, that is a lot of plasma shots and a little cheaper.

 JohnU wrote:
I'd just use the extra supa shootas and the tellyport blastas myself. The KFF is pricey and can be hard to use properly with the flyer movement rules. The amount of shots from the mega-kannon could be suicidal for the plane. If 1's don't scare you, that is a lot of plasma shots and a little cheaper.

I don't have the leaks, been too busy at home and at work to find and analyze stuff. I ask you, please, elaborate on this large quantity of suicidal plasma, and perhaps how Tellypotty blasta is gonna work this Ed?

Each mega-kannon (there are two) is Heavy D3, S8, AP -3, Damage D3, 36", rolls to hit of 1 cause a mortal wound to the jet.

Tellyportas are Assault D3, S8, AP-2, Damage 1, 24". If a model suffers unsaved wounds but doesn't die, roll a D6 at the end of the phase, if the die roll is higher than the model's wounds they die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The rule says Wounds Characteristic, so I'm not sure if that means their remaining wounds or the actual number listed on their data sheet.

At just a hair over 100 points for a dakka jet with 6 supa shootas.. Are they worth it? If they target the same squad (lets use marines in open as example) thats 18 shots. 9 hits. 6 wounds and 3 dead smurfs.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
At just a hair over 100 points for a dakka jet with 6 supa shootas.. Are they worth it? If they target the same squad (lets use marines in open as example) thats 18 shots. 9 hits. 6 wounds and 3 dead smurfs.

From a theory hammer point of view, I'm really liking the Dakkajet. It's cheap, and fairly killy.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
At just a hair over 100 points for a dakka jet with 6 supa shootas.. Are they worth it? If they target the same squad (lets use marines in open as example) thats 18 shots. 9 hits. 6 wounds and 3 dead smurfs.

More than just a hair, though- 10/shoota leaves you at 148 points for 6, right? I still think it's a solid deal, but worth noting.

Speaking of Dakkajets, how do y'all think they compare vs a Blitza-Bomma? The potential of Blitzas are high but I worry that with the one-shot nature of the bomb it'd be a bit too much variance.

I like that the Dakkajet can engage most types of targets at least reasonably well.

Not sure what Boom Bomms are good at targeting. Maybe vehicle squadrons (are there many of those around anymore?) or small MEQ squads in cover?

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
At just a hair over 100 points for a dakka jet with 6 supa shootas.. Are they worth it? If they target the same squad (lets use marines in open as example) thats 18 shots. 9 hits. 6 wounds and 3 dead smurfs.

More than just a hair, though- 10/shoota leaves you at 148 points for 6, right? I still think it's a solid deal, but worth noting.

>_< Still thinking in 7e. Forgot you have to pay for the 4 it is already armed with. Ok so almost 150 points. Less worth it then I initially had envisioned.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
At just a hair over 100 points for a dakka jet with 6 supa shootas.. Are they worth it? If they target the same squad (lets use marines in open as example) thats 18 shots. 9 hits. 6 wounds and 3 dead smurfs.

More than just a hair, though- 10/shoota leaves you at 148 points for 6, right? I still think it's a solid deal, but worth noting.

>_< Still thinking in 7e. Forgot you have to pay for the 4 it is already armed with. Ok so almost 150 points. Less worth it then I initially had envisioned.

I will concur with Daisy here, even at 148 it's a solid flyer with a charmingly appropriate amount of Dakka

 JohnU wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The rule says Wounds Characteristic, so I'm not sure if that means their remaining wounds or the actual number listed on their data sheet.

I also have wondered about this. I'm almost entirely certain that it means remaining wounds, not total. The weaker a unit is, the more susceptible it is to tellyportin'.

 JohnU wrote:
I like that the Dakkajet can engage most types of targets at least reasonably well.

Not sure what Boom Bomms are good at targeting. Maybe vehicle squadrons (are there many of those around anymore?) or small MEQ squads in cover?

You've got it exactly right.

The big challenge with the blitza bomma is availability of targets- ideally, you want a 10-man unit of 1-wound 3+ armor sitting in cover for 2+. Against those targets, you are INCREDIBLY efficient: 10 dice, on a 4+ a model dies. I played a game vs chaos, and took out 6 possessed followed by 3 more from moral with a single bomb, it was glorious.

But against other targets, say with lower model count, higher wounds, etc. it's probably worse than a dakkajet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just for fun comparisons, to match the reliability of those bombs in damaging MEQs in cover, orks would need a Heavy 36 S8 AP-2 weapon. (36 shots, 12 hits, 10 wounds, 5 saves).


Obviously that's ideal conditions, but neat thought.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The rule says Wounds Characteristic, so I'm not sure if that means their remaining wounds or the actual number listed on their data sheet.

I also have wondered about this. I'm almost entirely certain that it means remaining wounds, not total. The weaker a unit is, the more susceptible it is to tellyportin'.

I think so too, I had just brushed over that the first time I looked at the entry and it threw me off.

 JohnU wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The rule says Wounds Characteristic, so I'm not sure if that means their remaining wounds or the actual number listed on their data sheet.

I also have wondered about this. I'm almost entirely certain that it means remaining wounds, not total. The weaker a unit is, the more susceptible it is to tellyportin'.

I think so too, I had just brushed over that the first time I looked at the entry and it threw me off.

Unfortunately I think they mean characteristics, more wounds characteristic being bigger things and harder to teleport...also it says characteristic.

I think they mean remaining wounds. As otherwise its basically useless vs anything with more than 6 wounds. And the fact it says at the end of the phase.

If you were testing vs their base wound characteristics there would be no reason for you to test at the end of the phase, as the characteristic is static and you can effectively test as soon as you wound. But due to the fact its saying; wait until you have finalised their remaining wound count, then roll D6 and see if it is instantly dead.

Im not saying 100% thats what its saying, but from the way you play the rules out and the way they've implied the usage, suggests to me that its remaining wounds.

Secondly,
Wound charactistics change, as do other characteristics. So Wound characteristic is not actually static. As seen by walker stats changing as the wound characteristic decreases. Which means that wound count actually does decrease. Just it would be silly to have to actually mark it down. So regardless, even if you test against the targets characteristic then you still test against the remaining. Let me give an example;

Stompa gets reduced to 6 wounds

You check its stats, the wound is a *, you check its move etc..

Right now, at this point, technically its Wound characteristic is 6, according to the *

So when rolling the teleporta you would need a 6 to remove it, well i think you need to roll >wounds, but you get my point

So I feel this implies wound characteristic changes. Another example, meka-dred, it has like 4 attacks and +1 attack if you have 2 rippa claws. Now lets say there was an ability which tested against attack characteristic. You wouldnt test against 4 if it had 2 rippa claws, you'd test against 5. Because the attack stat has increased. Ergo, its not static.

If wound characteristic didn't change, you'd never be able to kill anything.

 koooaei wrote:
If wound characteristic didn't change, you'd never be able to kill anything.

BOOOOM mind blown Budha level wisdom right here

What units can deepstrike/outflank/infiltrate and do Turn 1 Assaults?

Stormboyz
Kommandos
Deff Koptas
Buggies/Trakks

What else?

SemperMortis wrote:
What units can deepstrike/outflank/infiltrate and do Turn 1 Assaults?

Stormboyz
Kommandos
Deff Koptas
Buggies/Trakks

What else?

I didn't think Stormboyz could? I thought they simply had much better movement.
(I cant access the leaked 8e Orks, the google drive link appears to have been taken down - so I cant confirm)

And there will probably be some FW stuff that can? otherwise I dont remember there being anything else.

Pretty sure stormboyz can't deepstrike.

Anything that's infantry can deepstrike with a help of wierdboy. But only one squad.

Stormboyz can advance and charge in the same turn without a warboss, but if they do they have to take dangerous terrain tests.

They're fast as hell for only 2 points more per model.

If we follow the wording, they still suffer casualties for advance + charge even if boss is around

SemperMortis wrote:
Who is ready for GW to slap us in the face again and say that the Mobile Fortress Rule for Battlewagons doesn't extend to the passengers.

It doesn't extend to passengers. There is a similar situation in the space marine index as well with one of the land speeders. It can fall back and shoot still but specifically says the passengers can't even though it can.

Solar Shock wrote:
I think they mean remaining wounds. As otherwise its basically useless vs anything with more than 6 wounds. .

Thats not without precident; the ork power is useless against anything t5 and up

mhalko1 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Who is ready for GW to slap us in the face again and say that the Mobile Fortress Rule for Battlewagons doesn't extend to the passengers.

It doesn't extend to passengers. There is a similar situation in the space marine index as well with one of the land speeders. It can fall back and shoot still but specifically says the passengers can't even though it can.

If this is the case, then a wagon is really only useful for transporting Melee focused units with an ard case. The killkannon is overcosted. Hardly worth it. Zzap gun, lobba and kannon all not worth it. So... what a waste of a rule.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Who is ready for GW to slap us in the face again and say that the Mobile Fortress Rule for Battlewagons doesn't extend to the passengers.

It doesn't extend to passengers. There is a similar situation in the space marine index as well with one of the land speeders. It can fall back and shoot still but specifically says the passengers can't even though it can.

If this is the case, then a wagon is really only useful for transporting Melee focused units with an ard case. The killkannon is overcosted. Hardly worth it. Zzap gun, lobba and kannon all not worth it. So... what a waste of a rule.

You hit the nail on the head. The heavy weapons a Battlewagon can take are Zzap Gunz 18pts for 1 shot weapon at BS2. Lobba, 18pts for D6 shots at S5 no AP value and 1 damage, can ignore LOS though. (D6 at BS2 averages 1 - 1.3 hits a turn). Kill Kannon, 27pts for D6 S7 AP-2 2 damage. And finally a Kannon which for 15pts has 2 firing modes D6 S4 shots no AP 1 damage and 1 S8 shot -2 AP and D6 damage.

In other words, NOBODY is going to take heavy weapons on this thing because its already over priced, has terrible Ballistic skill with no way of buffing it and is far better as a transport in every way imaginable. And before the argument goes to "well if you had some extra points you could...." No! Take those points and put them somewhere else. Hell, a hardcase is probably the best investment for the battlewagon and a Deff Rolla.

And for the Stormboyz thing, I was thinking of the formation for Zagstruk that allowed him and some Stormboyz to deep strike my bad