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2017/06/18 03:56:20
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Nobz with Big Choppas: I was not impressed, I fielded 5 Nobz with Big Choppas and they were lackluster at best. I think my next game im going to have to try the Klaws out.
They seem to do best against big things, especially those with T6 (S7 getting them 3+ to wound) and combine that with two damage and the -1 is a nice bonus. As I said, my nobz squad absolutely destroyed a Hive Tyrant. I ran them in a mixed unit with 2 Klaws and 3 Big Choppas, mainly because Klaws are TWENTY FIVE ZOGGIN' POINTS!
The same nob squad was just barely able to whittle through the hormagaunt squad I mentioned, so they definiately do poorly against a large amount of weaker infantry. I wouldn't hesitate to throw them at enemy elite infantry though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 03:59:27
2017/06/18 04:58:37
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
So after four games in 8th I feel our best unit hands down is....nob with a WAAAGH banner. I'll probably make two more of these things hitting on 2+ /3+ w klaw is such a game changer that whenever I don't have him near it feels not worth it. Anyone feel the same way? Currently using an AoBR nob with w fantasy black Ork banner arm anyone got creative ideas for banners?
3000
1500
2200
2017/06/18 06:05:13
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Probably good to pepper in shootas somehwere? Basically two huge warbands with every buff imaginable and a trukk to deploy the 12 characters in perfectly (7 units to deploy) if they have alot of snipers or for shenanigans, weirdboy auto pass jump on cheapest unit turn one after warpath cast on them surround the humies. Two squads clipped to 28 for points. Prob can force aircraft off the board mid game with clever jump and spread. Painboyz fix whichever weirdboy perils the most triple D6 autopass mortal wound smite the big nasty stuff.
Shootas? How many/where?
This is similar to the list I'm using but I like using ghaz to get those ork boys really fighting over 2 warbosses (he has a 6 inch mob rule range), 1 nob with banner,
I've found I've had to put the mek on bikes to get the required range to cover 180 boys with the KFF.
Battalion
Ghaz
Big Mek bike KFF 30 boyz big choppa
29 boyz big choppa
29 boyz big choppa
29 boyz big choppa
29 boyz big choppa
29 boyz big choppa
Trukk, big shoota
Vanguard
Big Mek bike KFF Painboy klaw
Painboy klaw
Nob Banner
Supreme Command
Weirdboy da jump
Weirdboy warpath
Weirdboy da jump
I would like another 2 weirdboys but would have to drop the trukk and some more boys/big choppas
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 06:19:31
2017/06/18 08:45:57
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Rismonite wrote: Has anybody else noticed that we can't move our transport before we disembark now :(
The tradeoff seems to be we get three inches to disembark and can then move, but feels nerfy.
It is a slight nerf for things that were previously assault vehicles (you are effectively losing 4", 3" from the original vehicle move and 1" because boyz are only 5" move now) but for non-assault vehicles its a buff because you can get out of a rhino and charge instead of standing there.
Given all the other things we gained from this addition (orks that is) I have no issues with this slight nerf.
Orks
GreyKnights
Admech
2017/06/18 10:44:23
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
SemperMortis wrote: Got another game of 8th in today, let me share my limited findings.
Boyz: Amazing. I used Ghaz and Warpath and carved through units of Primaris Marines like they were nothing. That same unit of boyz then charged his BUFF BUBBLE unit and had 14 boyz and 1 nob left out of a squad of 27 (this is turn 3 mind you) They wiped them out with the Nob delivering the Coup De Grace with his Big choppa. Totally worth their points when properly buffed.
Nobz with Big Choppas: I was not impressed, I fielded 5 Nobz with Big Choppas and they were lackluster at best. I think my next game im going to have to try the Klaws out.
Ghaz: Beat stick....simple as that, when he wasn't buffing every ork near him he was eating Rhinos and pummeling Primaris Marines.
Weirdboy: So....Smite is amazing. Turn 1 My weirdboy who was near 20 Ork boyz was able to see a Scout squad camping a tower near my lines so he went Brrrrt and rolled a 9 +2 = 11. I rolled a 6 with my D6 and killed 3 Scouts with bolters 1 with a sniper rifle and a sergeant Beyond that his power was "Da Jump" and I never got to use it because of how the game turned out. I did use a 2nd weird boy for Warpath and yeah....nice.
Killa Kanz: I ran 12 Killa Kanz in 2 squads armed with Rokkitz. They did piss poor. Not their fault I don't think, just the way the game was set up and what was across from them. (Plasma Cannons at max range) they did manage to kill 3 scouts with their rokkitz and then rolled over a speed bump 10 man SM assault squad but then the game ended before they could achieve their primary objective, silencing those plasma Cannons.
Kommandos: Not impressed with their ability to do much. I used 3 squads of 5 kommandos, each armed with a Nob/BC and 2 Burnas because they are free so why not? First off, the burnas did almost nothing the entire game, it was actually rather disappointing. This has more to do with the Ork boyz stats and the D3 then anything else. In the shooting phase it does D3 which sucks, its basically 2 hits and 1 wound against T4 with no AP modifier, this sucks, I can't over state how crap that is. Then in the assault phase its only 2 attacks hitting on 3s and wounding on 4s against T4. This won't even kill a MEQ on average. The Nob with BC didn't do much better and their cover save bonus was negligible to say the least. Now with that negativity out of the way they are a GREAT distraction unit. Each one tied up an enemy units attention for at least 1 turn and caused at least 1 wound against their targets before dying gloriously. So in reality they aren't anything other then a distraction unit to allow your boyz and more choppy brethren to close with and destroy the enemy.
And the Big one.
Deffkoptas: WOW!!!!! First off I tried 2 units of 3, each armed with the KMB to give it a shot. First impression with the KMB? UTTER CRAP!!!! I hurt myself more then the enemy with this thing. Once they got into CC however, they were still crap! the D3 hits instead of 1 is nice and gives it 4 attacks on average but they are only S5 and no AP Modifier so most Marines just shrug it off (3 models = 12 attacks hitting on 3s for 8 hits wounding on 3s for 5-6 wounds against a 3+ = 2 Dead Marines.)
So why are the Deff Koptas so great? two words "Big Bomm" This thing is the absolute destroyer of worlds for Ork Players. My 2 units became bogged down by 2 units of Tac Marines so what did they do? Disengaged, flew over them and dropped a total of 5 bombs between the two units that UTTERLY destroyed them both it was brilliant.
so I'm assuming you won and orks aren't as awful as you claimed they were. Regarding kommandos they are simply small units of Ork boys that cost 3 pots more but free burnas. A 4+ sv isn't great this edition. And the burnas aren't usable turn 1 infiltrate so thier only good for overwatch and ok for assault considering they are a basic boys best avail melee wpn. It's just another reason I think burna squads are not good
And really dont warrant d3 from the usual d6 most flamers got. However they are as you said kommandos are a distraction unit so your opponent deals with the immediate threat or if you are lucky the kommandos can tie up a shooting unit, artillery, or something similar. For the same points you could get a stormboy squad however but I'm not sure which will be better as again they are just faster moving unbuffed boys.
You can try the twin big shoots on the deffkoptas it's 5pts more each but you get more shots they are just much weaker but could be useful vs tyranids and guard armies.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 11:02:55
2017/06/18 16:42:58
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
gungo wrote: Question does deffkoptas ignore hard to hit rules for flyers in the shooting phase?
No. It'll be in the weapon profile if that's the case.
Ya I don't see any anti flyer unit ignoring that rule even the traktor gun which is our anti flyer or dakkajet. Which makes shooting flyers extremely difficult with orks. I was hoping units with flying rules had some interaction that ignored that rule.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I like the kmb deffkoptas and I don't have a lot of points to spare!
Ghazkull = 215
Nob w waaagh banner = 79
30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoota) = 180
30 boys (20 choppa/10 shoots) = 180
meka dread (kff, dreadklaw, rattler kannon) = 221?
2000 total
That's about as good as I can get a TAC list and hopefully the mekadread doesn't cost to much with a kff. The deffkoptas are a single unit and the Mek guns a single unit. 13 drops since gwFAQ today confirmed kommandos and all reserve units count as drops for first turn.
I'm. It sure how effective kommandos will be at tying up shooting units I might be better off with another 15 stormboys w nob w big choppa. ( I just don't have the models yet for that)
You can only take one bomb squigs per 5 tankbustas.
2017/06/18 17:31:39
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
so I'm assuming you won and orks aren't as awful as you claimed they were. Regarding kommandos they are simply small units of Ork boys that cost 3 pots more but free burnas. A 4+ sv isn't great this edition. And the burnas aren't usable turn 1 infiltrate so thier only good for overwatch and ok for assault considering they are a basic boys best avail melee wpn. It's just another reason I think burna squads are not good And really dont warrant d3 from the usual d6 most flamers got. However they are as you said kommandos are a distraction unit so your opponent deals with the immediate threat or if you are lucky the kommandos can tie up a shooting unit, artillery, or something similar. For the same points you could get a stormboy squad however but I'm not sure which will be better as again they are just faster moving unbuffed boys.
You can try the twin big shoots on the deffkoptas it's 5pts more each but you get more shots they are just much weaker but could be useful vs tyranids and guard armies.
Nope, I am still relatively sure orkz are going to be piss poor, its just a new edition so its going to take players a bit to adjust to the fact that Orkz can now get across the board without dying first. Also the assault from Deep strike/outflank/scout/infiltrate whatever is huge for us because we can deploy 4 throw away Kommando units to snipe back field objectives/units and even though they don't have much fighting prowess they have to be dealt with or else.
As far as my game went, I think he fethed up royally because he brought far to much expensive stuff and not enough dakka. He fielded 2 squads of Plasma Primaris Marines, 1 Squad of Primaris assault Marines, a fully outfitted Assault squad and 2 separate buff bubbles. He also brought Plasma Cannons and would have been better off bringing Missile launchers.
And I didn't try out any of the units I think are going to be absolute CRAP like Burna Boyz, Painboyz, Mork/Gork, Stompa, flash gitz, warbikes, Meganobz. But I did get a chance to try out a lot of the units I think im going to be building my lists around and I have come to the conclusion that Deff Koptas are INVALUABLE. I would recommend giving at least one of them the Saw blades because those 2D3 attacks at S5 just don't do as much as you think they would. (unit of 3 = 12 attacks on average) and the biggest takeaway was the Bomm was AMAZING.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 17:41:48
so I'm assuming you won and orks aren't as awful as you claimed they were. Regarding kommandos they are simply small units of Ork boys that cost 3 pots more but free burnas. A 4+ sv isn't great this edition. And the burnas aren't usable turn 1 infiltrate so thier only good for overwatch and ok for assault considering they are a basic boys best avail melee wpn. It's just another reason I think burna squads are not good
And really dont warrant d3 from the usual d6 most flamers got. However they are as you said kommandos are a distraction unit so your opponent deals with the immediate threat or if you are lucky the kommandos can tie up a shooting unit, artillery, or something similar. For the same points you could get a stormboy squad however but I'm not sure which will be better as again they are just faster moving unbuffed boys.
You can try the twin big shoots on the deffkoptas it's 5pts more each but you get more shots they are just much weaker but could be useful vs tyranids and guard armies.
Nope, I am still relatively sure orkz are going to be piss poor, its just a new edition so its going to take players a bit to adjust to the fact that Orkz can now get across the board without dying first. Also the assault from Deep strike/outflank/scout/infiltrate whatever is huge for us because we can deploy 4 throw away Kommando units to snipe back field objectives/units and even though they don't have much fighting prowess they have to be dealt with or else.
As far as my game went, I think he fethed up royally because he brought far to much expensive stuff and not enough dakka. He fielded 2 squads of Plasma Primaris Marines, 1 Squad of Primaris assault Marines, a fully outfitted Assault squad and 2 separate buff bubbles. He also brought Plasma Cannons and would have been better off bringing Missile launchers.
And I didn't try out any of the units I think are going to be absolute CRAP like Burna Boyz, Painboyz, Mork/Gork, Stompa, flash gitz, warbikes, Meganobz. But I did get a chance to try out a lot of the units I think im going to be building my lists around and I have come to the conclusion that Deff Koptas are INVALUABLE. I would recommend giving at least one of them the Saw blades because those 2D3 attacks at S5 just don't do as much as you think they would. (unit of 3 = 12 attacks on average) and the biggest takeaway was the Bomm was AMAZING.
Yeah; I have a hard time thinking Orks will be solid enough this edition - there's a lot of stuff that can kill hordes, and their anti-armor just isn't reliable enough (neither are their ramshackle vehicles).
IG outshoot and outfight anything Ork via Conscripts, let alone the rest of the artillery backline hiding behind terrain and wiping you out - also, missile launchers are pro versus orks; d6 vs hordes, and a solid s8 shot vs vehicles. They're super versatile. I know there's more to the game than just Imperium; however since Imperium can mix and match to their hearts content, Imperium lists (even if it's an SM core) will be a reasonable amount of the field at a tournament.
I'm not sure what points you were playing at, but I'm not sold on a Primaris Marine only list; they're essentially just Space Marine Nobz - and it looks like all his firepower was dedicated to fight other Power Armored armies.
Burna Boyz just aren't going to be good, d3 shots is nothing, even if they are power weapons in melee. Painboyz look ok, apparently the math on them and a KFF is 45% (but I'm still not sold on 6+ only). Morkanauts - pointless for the points cost; Gorkanauts on the other hand seem ok - but their shooting is pointless, you hope they draw enough fire and and make it to melee. That said, 18 wounds is nothing on them; the only reason mine lasted more than a couple turns is because my opponent flubbed a million to hit/wound rolls with missiles. Stompa - wayyy overpriced; Flash Gitz - overpriced; perhaps fun, but they don't do enough for their cost (even against MEQ that they're designed to fight). Warbikes are fun, they're pretty durable at 2 wounds and 4+ armor save and can output some shooting via 6 attacks each (probably best as a distraction/tarpit unit). Meganobz - no, just, no; never bring them; compare them to Custodes if you want to see how underpowered they really are. And having no Invuln save... what's the point.
I'm struggling to see how Orks survive once the meta adjusts.
Dakkajets are fun as hell though, and should reliably reach the target and output some pain on them (18 shots, BS4+ ). Great for hitting those key backline SM/IG targets.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 23:15:38
2017/06/19 00:08:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Have the transport disembarking limitations been difficult for anyone else in 8th so far? I want to be able to move my transport, disembark, and then charge ...and I can't do that anymore. Since models have to disembark from transports before the transport has moved. Particularly with Trukks, having to leave the squad inside for a full extra turn before I can disembark and charge seems bad...
Painboy are ok but mad doc is better. Warbikers will be good, especially when I see what zhardsnark brings even if it's just a warboss on bike w a Pk that hits without neg modifier. Morkanaut is only good for the kff and the mekadread is better for it. The gorkanaut is a beast and decent in a dread list. Kustom stompa is just going to be better although I need to see prices on weapons and shields. Flashgits people have been doing well with them although I don't have any and never saw the need. Burnas suck, meganobs I'm not a fan of at all. Eadbanger is the worst psychic power in game. Orks will be fine and more competitive then a majority of the armies out there. I think ynnari will be decent, some form of imperium soup will be the top list, some form of chaos soup will do well, necrons might do ok and orks are right There with necrons.. Eldar/dark eldar (non ynari) suck, tau are not great, Tyranids are like less synergy orks, ad mech sucks, sisters (not Celestine) and a bunch of imperial armies suck by themselves, guard are good though. Orks will be competitive becuase every other army was beat down hard while orks mostly received upgrades. Not every Ork unit is an all star.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackie wrote: 2 bomb squigs per 5 tankbustas, gungo's list is ok.
I also wanted to try the full tankbustas BW with 15 bustas and 5 bomb squigs, seems very nice
I fully expect to play vs imperial knights or equivilant so I need a solid way to deal with them. A battlewagon touching a kff bubble should be able to weather the first turn barrage. And hopefully the busta wagon can get in tankbusta bomb range to annihilate it first turn. After my opponent learns not to move his knight forward until the busta wagon is dead. Then it will take 2 turns for 1 knight with all my str8 shooting.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 01:30:29
2017/06/19 07:56:38
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
so I'm assuming you won and orks aren't as awful as you claimed they were. Regarding kommandos they are simply small units of Ork boys that cost 3 pots more but free burnas. A 4+ sv isn't great this edition. And the burnas aren't usable turn 1 infiltrate so thier only good for overwatch and ok for assault considering they are a basic boys best avail melee wpn. It's just another reason I think burna squads are not good
And really dont warrant d3 from the usual d6 most flamers got. However they are as you said kommandos are a distraction unit so your opponent deals with the immediate threat or if you are lucky the kommandos can tie up a shooting unit, artillery, or something similar. For the same points you could get a stormboy squad however but I'm not sure which will be better as again they are just faster moving unbuffed boys.
You can try the twin big shoots on the deffkoptas it's 5pts more each but you get more shots they are just much weaker but could be useful vs tyranids and guard armies.
Nope, I am still relatively sure orkz are going to be piss poor, its just a new edition so its going to take players a bit to adjust to the fact that Orkz can now get across the board without dying first. Also the assault from Deep strike/outflank/scout/infiltrate whatever is huge for us because we can deploy 4 throw away Kommando units to snipe back field objectives/units and even though they don't have much fighting prowess they have to be dealt with or else.
As far as my game went, I think he fethed up royally because he brought far to much expensive stuff and not enough dakka. He fielded 2 squads of Plasma Primaris Marines, 1 Squad of Primaris assault Marines, a fully outfitted Assault squad and 2 separate buff bubbles. He also brought Plasma Cannons and would have been better off bringing Missile launchers.
And I didn't try out any of the units I think are going to be absolute CRAP like Burna Boyz, Painboyz, Mork/Gork, Stompa, flash gitz, warbikes, Meganobz. But I did get a chance to try out a lot of the units I think im going to be building my lists around and I have come to the conclusion that Deff Koptas are INVALUABLE. I would recommend giving at least one of them the Saw blades because those 2D3 attacks at S5 just don't do as much as you think they would. (unit of 3 = 12 attacks on average) and the biggest takeaway was the Bomm was AMAZING.
Thanks for the mini bat-rep Semp,
Interesting, I saw the math on the kopta KMB's and aren't very impressed. The bomms however....yeh I like those Maybe it would simply be worth running koptas at min cost to squeeze as many into a list as possible, Maybe this is the Ork bombing edition! flood the board with boyz and bomb the crap out of everything else! Yeh I also never expected the kommando's to achieve much, but with the whole falling back stuff they can be a real pain in the ass. Would be interesting to see how well they work as 1 larger blob of 15. Makes them more likely to kill what backfield shooty thing they tie up. How did you find charging from the 9"?
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
I've run kommandoes 2 times. And i advocate min squads. 9' charges are risky. You also don't get to pay for burnas and a nob. So, the more of this 'free' gear you get - the better. Also, more squads = more versatility. In my opinion they're not really suited as a standalone force simply cause there's ~50% chance they won't make the charge. But it's not as big a deal if you don't exactly rely on kommandoes to do the job. Use them to supplement your other forces. Used them this way and they were ok.
And as for the increased number of squads forcing you to go second...you didn't expect to go first with orks, did ya?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 08:18:16
2017/06/19 08:47:40
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
fe40k wrote: I'm struggling to see how Orks survive once the meta adjusts.
I think there are 2 different scenarios to this
1 - "I am playing against Orks so i am going to build a list that will beat them" - Marine armies seem to have alot of tools to deal with a variety of opponents, a tailored army v orks would be harder to counter and the odds would be stacked against you.
2 - "Here is my tournament army list tailored to fight MEQ, how do I beat Orks with it?" - With a tournament list mentality most armies arnt going to be tailored vs Orks so the playing field is alot more level. Ork armies probably wouldnt change much depending on opponent as we dont have the wide variety of weapon options that marines have so an ork army is generally a 'takes on all comers' list.
If you play alot of '1' style games where people tailor their armies just to take on Orks then you might be in for some pain but if you play more tournament practice '2' style games then i think thats where Orks will do alot better
2017/06/19 12:13:53
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Orks are competitive becuase everyone else got nerfed hard.
Only super competitive list I've seen is imperial soup, ynnari is ok, chaos should be alright and necrons alright. Orks are up there w necrons maybe chaos. Everyone else is still reeling from severe nerfage. Tyranids got better but lack the synergy and force multiplier that Ork characters give and have a harder time vs vehicles then orks. Not everything orks can field is competitive.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 14:39:25
2017/06/19 12:26:34
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
they assault well, but most of thier hqs don't beef up thier troops just provide morale bonus (and one unit gives cover). I'm not saying thier not decent but I think they are very manageable and assault focused. Especially if they don't get that first turn charge. They are weaker then orks vs vehicles and I think orks will have a hard enough time with things like imperial knights. They have a lot of units that are in that vulnerable spot of str5/6 toughness 5/6 4+sv (that's like trukk range) where a lot of weapons can lay some wounds down. Most of the battlereps I see orks are winning against nids. And I did mention nids because I think they are better then They were prior but orks can actually lay some support Fire down and can assault almost as well for cheaper. Ork boys are dirt cheap and properly supported lay down 4/5x str 4 hits per boy that hits on a 2+. It's pretty brutal for the cost especially when they get can get a 5++ vs shooting.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 14:58:40
2017/06/19 14:47:58
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
So I took a sneak peak in the Index in the shop the other day, and noticed the bit about clans where it said units with a <clan> must declare what clan they are part of (which is fine) and that special rules only applying to units with the same clan as the giver (in their example an Evil Suns warboss only inspiring Evil Suns). Have I understood this correctly?
Aside from this being anti-thematic to all the background on Waaghs, how has everyone else been dealing with this on a tactical level?
Either you declare Ork boys who are clearly modelled from different clans as the same one, or you remodel every Ork in your army to be from the same clan.
The second options seems the most sensible (if a bit painful!), however, surely then we will see lots of silly things like Goff Flash Gits and Snakebite Lootas just to make sure that the buffs are applicable across the whole army?
2017/06/19 14:55:01
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Paint scheme has not, does not and will not matter when it comes to rules on the tabletop. I have a unit of boys painted as gifts. Some of my own clan (warboss' clan - 'ead smashas or 'ead stompas - can't decide exactly on a name but something that emphasizes their propensity to smash your face. Literally like step and squash). My lootas are deff skulls. My meganobz will be bad moons. All my vehicles are red (evil suns). I will throw in more of my clan as well as I go. But even though they are al different scheme, their clan is 'ead crushas (or whatever..tbd). The only time this matters is when you use snikrot for example. His buff to blood axes wouldn't apply to my 'ead boyz (hahahah Ed edd eddy).
2017/06/19 15:03:54
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Youre just going to have to paint them as you want and use goff clan. Zagstrukk and ghaz are goff, Maddoc is deathskull but oddly circumvents the clan rules and can heal any Ork (the only issue is the banner nob won't work on him), flash gits are not part of any clan and never get buffs, and our only other character is snikrot who is a bloodaxe and doesn't deploy near anyone else. So as of right now it's not a huge issue rulewise. Maybe fluff wise it will annoy people but really just paint them as you want.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 15:17:20
2017/06/19 15:13:05
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Paint scheme has not, does not and will not matter when it comes to rules on the tabletop
Yea I'm not disputing that, and perhaps this is the wrong thread for the question.
I was thinking that this more a WYSIWYG issue now that the 'clans' directly interact with the rules.
Essentially, unless you run Ghazgull, I can't see how to run a competitive multi-clan Ork force without using 'counts as' Edit: Doesn't Ghazz circumvent the Clan buff restrictions also?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 15:23:28
2017/06/19 15:22:12
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Ghaz doesn't have any clan restrictions. Right now Zaggy and Snikrot are the only guys that call out a specific clan. Bosses don't have clan restrictions for Waaagh, but do for Breakin' Heads. Painboys and Meks have the clan keyword restriction for fixing stuff, but Grotsnik does not.
Not a huge issue right now, but we'll see with the codex.
2017/06/19 15:23:23
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
You are right he does so the only 2 that matter are zagstrukk and snikrot however it's the banner nob that doesn't work on these characters unless they are part of his clan.
If anything to be annoyed about its flashgits are no clan so never gets clan buffs unless it's from ghaz or Maddoc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 15:26:20
2017/06/19 15:46:56
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I think shooty armies that are able to bubble wrap and fall back are a big problems for orks.
You cannot overshoot them and after you charge your boyz will be be buried by bullets....
The only way i see is that you need to be able to charge simultaneously with more units at the same time to reduce the amount of fire back. And it wont work with a proper bubble wrap e.g. kroots horde around shooty units
2017/06/19 15:49:40
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
The second options seems the most sensible (if a bit painful!), however, surely then we will see lots of silly things like Goff Flash Gits and Snakebite Lootas just to make sure that the buffs are applicable across the whole army?
Why do you consider silly a unit of flash gitz painted with goffs colours? Do you think that only bad moons have flash gitz? I don't like ork armies painted with a thousand different colours just because some clans have typical units. Every ork faction uses trukks and bikes, they are not an evil sunz exclusive, for example. Every model in my army has the same colour scheme, and my goffs flash gitz don't look silly. An army with some models in yellow, some other ones in red, blue or camouflage looks silly But if you like the idea of an army composed by mixed clans I totally respect that.
Only named characters belonging to a specific clan may look silly if painted with a colour scheme which isn't the one they should have, but I don't care about that either as I love snikrot and I can't stand the camouflage colour scheme, he's not painted yet but he will have the goffs colours too. Any ork clan has billions of soldiers and stuff, it doesn't seem unrealistic if they all can rely on the entire ork catalogue.
2017/06/19 16:03:37
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
It was just an example, I have nothing against your particular models! Flash Gits are famous for garish colours and jewellery whilst Goffs are serious and only approve of dour clothing.
I was concerned that tactics wise a multi-clan army would be under powered due to not being able to take advantage of the same buffs as mono-clan armies. However, it seems many of the best buffs from people like Mad Dok and Ghaz apply across clan lines so there is still space to field a multi clan army.
As it is I only have Snakebites in my collection at present. I was considering adding some Bad Moon shoota boys to rounds out my forces but I will bin off that idea now!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/19 16:05:46
2017/06/19 17:02:23
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
what do you guyz think of flash gitz. They seem to be an interestng choice for footslogging cause they can take relatively cheap ammo runts to eat enemy fire - to an extent - and you can fit a bunch of squads under kff. And together with badrukk they look like a semi-solid firebase for orks.
oh wait. They're 27 ppm. 31 wit an ammo runt. Forget about it! I can have 5 boyz for the price of each of them! Well, i guess badrukk can go on his own.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 17:26:54
3000
1500
2200 
Orks
GreyKnights
Admech
Beyond that his power was "Da Jump" and I never got to use it because of how the game turned out. I did use a 2nd weird boy for Warpath and yeah....nice.
it was brilliant.
). Great for hitting those key backline 
- Imperial Fists - 7290
