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Ghaz is great now. Especially in larger games.

This is my first draft list for going against the basilisk/baneblade list:


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Orks) [121 PL, 1999pts] ++

+ HQ +

Big Mek [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Warboss [4 PL, 80pts]: Attack Squig, Power Klaw, Shoota

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops +

Boyz [13 PL, 189pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 189pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 189pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 189pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Elites +

Meganobz [22 PL, 405pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob W/ PK: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)
. Meganob w/ Saws: Killsaws (Pair)

Mek [3 PL, 22pts]: Choppa, Slugga

Nob w/ Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 79pts]: Kustom Shoota

Painboy [4 PL, 68pts]: Killsaw

Tankbustas [7 PL, 190pts]: 2x Bomb Squig
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Tankbusta: 9x Rokkit Launcha

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [11 PL, 180pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [5 PL, 82pts]: Big Shoota

++ Total: [121 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Tankbustas in the trukk. Manz and banner nob in the wagon. KFF Mek, warboss, and painboy straddle 2 blobs of boys, with the weirdboy hanging back with 2 others, ready to toss them somewhere two turns in a row. I could also put the pay boy in with the manz but I figure a 5+ invul save and 6+ FBI to weather shooting until they crash into the line would be decent. Then he has to worry about 60 boyz teleporting and a wagon full of manz rolling up a flank..with a cheap Mek for light repairs cause why not?

Any siggestions/tweaks? Should be fun putting 120 boyz down. I have movement trays to.

Getting an Ork army together and after reading this entire thread. I am curious if there is a consensus on how its best to run boys on foot, shootas, or sluggas and choppas?

Following question, is there a winner when it comes to power klaws vs big choppas when it comes to arming your nobz for boyz squads?

Let us know how the MANz end up working out - I find it hard to believe they're worth the points they cost; especially with no invulnerable save, they go down easy to the anti-armor weapons on top of being incredibly slow.

Also, vehicles are much more survivable this edition; but I'm concerned about your list having a singular high value target for all the anti-vehicle weapons to aim at. You may be able to mitigate this using LoS blocking terrain and the KFF; but still, it's a single vehicle for the enemy to focus on all game - the targets inside are just as juicy.

@MurderMouth: No consensus on the boyz; Slugga Boyz are generally better, but if you're jumping things around, shoota boyz are fun (especially with Warpath on top too). That said, taking 10 Shootas and 20 Sluggas in a squad sounds about ideal - the 10 Shoota boyz at the back can be taken off from wounds first, and adds a tiny amount of additional firepower on the way in. With sub-20 squads and/or no warpath, I'm finding it hard to advocate Shoota boyz; Slugga boyz generally hit 50% harder.

Regarding Nobz; Big Choppas are very worth their points - but if your squad gets stuck on a random t8 vehicle, PK's might be worth it - but the math isn't favorable on them, and they're super pricey. Can't go wrong with Big Choppas, PKs are specific in usage.

Always take a killsaw over a pk. It starts getting better vs 3+ armor. It's also plain 2 damage, so more predictable and overall better vs multi-wound targets. Anywayz, both pk and killsaw aren't amazing for the price any more. 5 pk manz will statistically deal around 8 wounds for a rhino, so won't even kill it in combat. 5 killsaw manz statistically deal 10 wounds. Which means they've got around 50% at killing a previously untouched rhino (which is so very sad for the amount of points manz cost). Probably the best way of dealing with vehicles is tie as many of them down as possible while concentrating on killing one at a time. Don't forget that a baneblade is not as frightening for orks as it used to be with it's apoc blast.

Anywayz, i remember my last 7-th game vs a baneblade. It failed to kill a trukk and than got one-shotted by meganobz cause they were amazing at killing vehicles. Doubt it's gona be this way in 8-th.

I'm not so great at math, and it's getting pretty late, but I'll give it a shot:
Five double killsaw MANz is twenty attacks, hitting on 4's, wounding a Rhino on 3's with no armor save due to the -4 AP.
20 * .5 * .667 = 6.67

At two damage each that should statistically kill a rhino, right?

If they are buffed by a Nob with Waaagh! Banner they can do the same thing with four double-killsaw MANz, if I'm doing the math right. They can almost do it with three if buffed.

Vehicles seem pretty resilient to most weapons. Four lascannon shots hitting on 3+ will probably only take a rhino down to about half its wounds. Of course, lascannons are probably shooting turn one while MANz need to get across the board and into close combat. They really need a transport and they benefit greatly from the Banner nob, which add a lot to the cost. They are vulnerable to anti-tank weapons, but not as much as one might think. If a lascannon hits a meganob there is a 1/6 chance it won't wound followed by a 1/3 chance the nob will pass his save followed by a 1/3 chance the lascannon will do only one or two wounds. Meltaguns up close are more worrying. A single plasma gun shot won't take down a meganob, but some armies look to be taking a bunch of them.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
I believe I am correct in saying that Ork Boyz, Gretchin, Nobz, Stormboyz, and Kommandos are the only models that did not get more expensive, pointswise. There may be a few configurations of Gunz I am overlooking.

Maybe ork meta is movement tray meta?

Also some HQs like the warboss, big mek, weirdboy, ghaz and grotsnik who now costs less than half the points compared with the previous edition.

Are you saying the HQs got cheaper or are you saying they are 50% more expensive now?

All these HQs are cheaper now, and grotsnik is 74 points instead of 160.

Warboss with pk with or without the bike costs the same points, maybe he's even a little bit cheap as he can't have the boss pole and the lucky stikk anymore.

Weirdboyz are 8 points cheaper.

Big mek with KFF with or without the bike are 9-10 points cheaper.

Ghaz is 10 points cheaper.

I don't play FW stuff but if I remember correctly even Zhadsnark is 30ish points cheaper.

Only the generic HQs in megarmor are more expensive, but who needs them anymore?

Grotsnik got cheaper but he also lost usefulness. Now he is just a slightly better Painboy.

Ghaz got cheaper but lost his 2++ as well as his Army wide Fearless. This was always situational but still.

Zhadsnark got cheaper but lost pretty much all his useful abilities. he is just a slightly better warboss on a bike now.


So it is kind of a mixed bag, yeah they got cheaper but their abilities got worse.

Well IMHO grotsnik was unplayable before with his 160 points, he typicallu buffed a unit of meganobz but for the same cost you could take 4 other meganobz, which were way better than having the mad dok. Now if you're going to play hordes you probably want a couple of painboyz and for only 9 point more than a regular dok you can fit him which is better. Grotsnik is finally playable now, even if he doesn't have a bunch of special rules.

Ghaz was almost unplayable before, he could find a room only with the decurion which was a huge point sink and far from the most competitive lists. Now he's a great character, he lost the 2++ but gained a permanent 4+ and more wounds, not to mention that with the new rules morale is not the issue that was in 7th edition. He also strikes first and gives +1 attack to the boyz which is big if you want to play him with a unit of boyz in a BW and the boyz lose 1 attack because they're under 20 models.

Zhadsnark lost his ability to turn bikers into troops but since bikes now have lost their usefulness who cares? For only 11 point more than regular biker boss you get a better character. And even the regular biker boss is competitive choice. But the biker spam list was huge in 7th and I agree about considering him less effective now.

Ghaz and grotsnik are way better now, not to mention the weirboyz, which was terrible before and even the KFF biker mek, now a nice add if you want some vehicles.

I might test some Warbikers out next Wednesday. I'm sure I've got a bunch somewhere.

Double the amount of S5 shots from 7th (and hopefully Evil Sunz give them some character) means they could be ideal for zipping around and being a nuisance.

Something along the lines of BikerBoss, 2x3 Warbikers and 25 Stormboyz. It's only 500pts with the weapon upgrades (Big Choppa Nobs and PK on Warboss) and I expect the Warboss/Stormboyz to do much of the heavy lifting. But Warbikers are fast and durable enough for objectives (at least they should be).

Got a friend who was super stoked for orks in 8th, then lost his first 4 games with them.

He has had issue with boyz getting to combat, and then just hitting a wall. Followed by a fallback and his army goes away. Equally so, he has had some trouble with vehicles. Tank bustas seem to do alright vs. lighter transports, but not overall against tougher nuts.

Any suggestions? I hate to see him shelve them because of the limited success.

What does he have available?

I don't want to be answering with 'buy more models'

There's no universal advice on how to run your forces cause every situation requires a different approach. We can't just "drop in and kill everything with undercosted weapons". You got to use tactics. Sometimes you need to concentrate your forces, sometimes you just need to spread out and tarpit as much as possible. Sometimes, you need both. Or just try to survive and score or deny ground. So, what is he fielding? What armies and playstyles are problematic to deal with for him?

Frozocrone wrote:What does he have available?

I don't want to be answering with 'buy more models'

koooaei wrote:There's no universal advice on how to run your forces cause every situation requires a different approach. We can't just "drop in and kill everything with undercosted weapons". You got to use tactics. Sometimes you need to concentrate your forces, sometimes you just need to spread out and tarpit as much as possible. Sometimes, you need both. Or just try to survive and score or deny ground. So, what is he fielding? What armies and playstyles are problematic to deal with for him?

* Forgive me on names, orks are not my strongest knowledge base :p

First game he played against me (Ynnari), he ran, 3x30 boyz.. 2x big mek? with kustom force field, 2x 10 tank bustas in Trukks, some # of flamer guys in a trukk, and I think a warboss, oh and a squad of lootas. This was a power level game 100 points, the day the rulebook came out. It was a bad time for the orks. Flamers did work on anything they touched so largely i tried to kite them. The tank bustas couldnt touch my serpants, but wiped bikes out like crazy. I used terrain to split his force and took on one boyz squad at a time (used Str from death to charge his first blob which stopped his turn charge on my force).

Next few games I did not watch myself. I think he ran a variation of that first list at 2000 points. And then ran another list with Kan spam, I think against IG, and got totally wrecked.

He has a ton of models available (except the gork/mork model) I think part of the issue is he is not a fan of speed freakz and when i looked at the index, many of the models falling into that category (bikes, dakkajets, deff koptas) seemed really good.

Thanks for taking the time.

I had an idea yesterday evening.
If I have a big combat going where in I have maybe 3 or 4 units fighting and it's taking a while, I didn't roll right through quickly, they counter attacked with units or something. In my turn I could have a unit fall back and embark on a transport. More importantly, I could have a unit disembark and move to set up a charge and then also have a unit fall back from combat to embark on the now empty transport, which could then move and even charge if I wanted. I think this kinda shell game would work well if there were several transport vehicles (holding fresh strong unit.) in a list. This could be useful if you'd able to pull it off. Ideally I'd like 12+ models falling back to board the transport this provides space for my new charging units and or models mass for Objectives that need more models than the opposing player. to control.
I don't yet know how many units or what size they should be to make this work. Could be good.

His list is ok. I'd probably try to fit in a wierdboy and an extra boss though. He can also benefit from one boss being Ghaz or running a banner nob to add some punch to boyz mobs. Not sure 2 kff meks are worth it. At least not for boyz cause you're statistically better off with just more boyz. They're pretty helpful for trukks and wagonz but not that much for footslogging boyz.

As for tactics, footslogging hordes are very position-dependent. Ideally, you should be able to screen part of your squads with other squads - more damaged ones. This way you can protect one squads from being charged. Also, it's a good idea to not fall into baits like getting your forces split in an unfavorable manner. Sometimes it's better to hold ground. Especially important vs faster less numerous enemies. If you rush and even kill a transport or a small squad but than get caught for a devastating counter-charge, the initial killing was not worth it. Hordes lack speed => can't react as quick as mech lists to enemy maneuvres. But hordes can controle the center of the board quite effectively. Most wins come from maelstorm points and not from actual enemy slaying. So, concentrating on a mission is very important.

I think Boyz mobs really need Weirdboyz to put them in range to do damage quickly. Walking up the table just gets them killed. He also needs to work on his positioning to deny fall back from his initial charge, and to set up multiple charges at once (so that fall back is a problem for non-flying units)

So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

Yeah but why would you want to waste 30 boyz this way?

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

That's what 30 grot are for. lol. then use command points so they don't take LD test and stand their ground!

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

As long as they're all over 9" from an enemy model you can place them however you want (in coherency)

But yeah, slogging your entire army isn't going to work. There's too many shots coming down the field, we don't get cover, and the KFF alone isn't good enough. Jump a squad while the other walks, infiltrate koptas and/or kommandos.

I think the Weirdboy is our best transport right now, plus it's the cheapest.

 koooaei wrote:

Spoiler:

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

Yeah but why would you want to waste 30 boyz this way?

I just picked thirty boyz for sake of example, could be anything. But the idea of bubble wrapping my enemy to gum up a turn of his movement could be nice turn one vs some armies. I for one will be dealing with a very choppy Land Raider/Termy army soon and I could see myself maybe doing something like this to stall his movement turn one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

That's what 30 grot are for. lol. then use command points so they don't take LD test and stand their ground!

Heh, yeah wow that's exactly what grots will be for. While I am muckin about millin this over, can grots in the same unit fire at different targets? I ask because if I string them out not all grots will get to fire unless they can have different targets.

 Rismonite wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Spoiler:

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

Yeah but why would you want to waste 30 boyz this way?

I just picked thirty boyz for sake of example, could be anything. But the idea of bubble wrapping my enemy to gum up a turn of his movement could be nice turn one vs some armies. I for one will be dealing with a very choppy Land Raider/Termy army soon and I could see myself maybe doing something like this to stall his movement turn one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Rismonite wrote:
So can we use 'Da Jump' to take thirty boyz and string them out? Like a konga line tracing a nine inch circle around everything on the opponent's deployment? I mean we really could interfere with anything that wants to move plus advance more then eight inches right?

That's what 30 grot are for. lol. then use command points so they don't take LD test and stand their ground!

Heh, yeah wow that's exactly what grots will be for. While I am muckin about millin this over, can grots in the same unit fire at different targets? I ask because if I string them out not all grots will get to fire unless they can have different targets.

Yes, every unit in 40K(as far as I know) can divide it's shooting how ever you like. You just have to divide how you wish to split you shots before you roll any dice.

Hi all, as I've grown tired of my 7th ed armies I have taken a close look at Orks as a) nobody in my club plays them and b) they seem sych a fun army. And c) they have a lot of great sculpts!

What's been stopping me so far has been the feeling that Orks almost GAVE to be played as a horde army, which is something that really stresses me. I can't stand deploying, moving and removing units of 20, 30 models let alone put them back in the case in an orderly fashion. Movement trays look silly imo, so that's not an option either.

The good news is that we won't play games larger than 1500, so there might be hope yet? Do you think I can have fun and some success in a not so competitive meta here?

By the looks I like the aircraft, MANZ, trukks, BWs, big guns, all dreads and 'nauts. Also Lootas and Burna Boys and Tankbustas.

BlackCadian wrote:
Hi all, as I've grown tired of my 7th ed armies I have taken a close look at Orks as a) nobody in my club plays them and b) they seem sych a fun army. And c) they have a lot of great sculpts!

What's been stopping me so far has been the feeling that Orks almost GAVE to be played as a horde army, which is something that really stresses me. I can't stand deploying, moving and removing units of 20, 30 models let alone put them back in the case in an orderly fashion. Movement trays look silly imo, so that's not an option either.

The good news is that we won't play games larger than 1500, so there might be hope yet? Do you think I can have fun and some success in a not so competitive meta here?

By the looks I like the aircraft, MANZ, trukks, BWs, big guns, all dreads and 'nauts. Also Lootas and Burna Boys and Tankbustas.

Yes in a not super competitive meta I think non-horde definitely works (not sure about a super competitive meta yet that remains to be seen). Right now I'm running a list like that because it was easier to get it all painted compared to needing to paint 100+ models, which I will eventually do.

BlackCadian wrote:
Hi all, as I've grown tired of my 7th ed armies I have taken a close look at Orks as a) nobody in my club plays them and b) they seem sych a fun army. And c) they have a lot of great sculpts!

What's been stopping me so far has been the feeling that Orks almost GAVE to be played as a horde army, which is something that really stresses me. I can't stand deploying, moving and removing units of 20, 30 models let alone put them back in the case in an orderly fashion. Movement trays look silly imo, so that's not an option either.

The good news is that we won't play games larger than 1500, so there might be hope yet? Do you think I can have fun and some success in a not so competitive meta here?

By the looks I like the aircraft, MANZ, trukks, BWs, big guns, all dreads and 'nauts. Also Lootas and Burna Boys and Tankbustas.

Welcome to the bestist, choppiest and coolist army in 40K!

I do think you can do well in 1500 point games if my first two games are anything to go by. I know that Horde armies are looking strong but it's too early for me to rule out other builds. Seems like we've only just begun to sort this army out. As far as I can tell all the units you mention that you like are worth putting on the table. MANZ may be a little challenging right now and there's a lot of discussion on that. I myself have yet to use them this edition. I'm still getting used to the new points costs and making my plans. I do plan to use them! I still thing Boys are something Ork players will want in their army but depending on the detachment you like they are not mandatory.

Jidmah!

Would it be possible to start compiling some of these verified details in the OP? So many pages to slog though.

I was just considering Burnas.

What do people think of 5 man squads with 3 Spanners with Kombi-skorchas?

Seems like it might be a bit too expensive at 127 points (cost of 9 Burnas) 9 Burnas put out an average of 18 S4 hits.

2 Burnas and 5 spannas would put out 4 S4 and 10.5 S5 hits. (and maybe 1 more S4 hit from the shootas) SO fewer hits, and less durable.

But they do more damage to S4 -6 targets especially with armor. (9 burnas kill 3 marines, the spanner squad kills 4.3)

Burnas are probably more consistent as D3 is a bit more reliable Range from 9 to 27 hits.

Spanna squad would range from 5 - 30 hits.

Also on the plus side is that you could put 2 of these squads in a trukk (or 4 in a wagon)

I think you can do just fine with that stuff blackcadian. should have no problems at all being decently competitive I would think. Should be fun at least



I have been looking at 2k fully mechanized lsits... centered around BW with gits and lootas, that sort of thing


Spearhead + 1 CP and super heavy +3CP

could easily do

spearhead +3 CP

KFF mek for HQ req 75

2 squads 10 loota 340
1 squad 10 gits + 10 runts 310
2 wagons with rollas (lootas in one, gits in other) 360

Super Heavy Detachment

kill tank gigashoota twin big shoota x 3 ram 301
kill tank gigashoota twin big shoota x 3 ram 301
kill tank gigashoota twin big shoota rack of rokkits x 2 329


comes in at 2016 points or so w/ nobody to fill the 36 transport slots in kill tanks. could modify some stuff around... to get 3 troops and 1 extra hq so you could get +3 CP battalion +1 spearhead and +3 super heavy for a bonus of 7 CP.


shooting per turn thats

hitting on a 4+
18D6 s6 -1 48"
54 s5 36"
30 S5 -2 with rerolls
4 s8 -3 D3 24"

on a 5+
20D3 s7 -1 D2

everything on field is t7 or t8 until transports are popped, only 5 drops for high chance of getting first turn


it would be a shooty army, aside from vehicles throwing down if they had to (or gits could as well i suppose).. if you fill kill tanks with 10 boys ea and a warboss/banner than even that small force could probably do some work while the armies focus primarily stayed shooting.


just having some fun thinking of some competitive shooting options for orks.

I think that wagons full of heavies + kill tanks might not be that bad?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
even kill tanks paired with a pushy melee list +3 CP and around 1000 points for all of that shooting and T8 assault-delivering goodness??

2000 point Footslogging list that works pretty good for me. 1 weirdo has Da Jump, 1 Weirdo has warpath. I jump 1 warpath affected mob of boyz forward on turn 1 and 2 while everything advances.

Supreme command detachment
3 big Meks in Mega Armor with KFF, PKs and KMBs
Battalion Detachment
Weirdboy
26 Boyz, 1 nob w/PK
26 Boyz, 1 nob w/PK
20 boyz, 1 nob w/PK
1 nob w/ WAAAGH banner
9 tankbustas, 1 bomb squig
Battalion Detachment
Weirdboy
30 boyz, 1 nob w/PK
30 boyz, 1 nob w/ PK
12 boyz, 1 nob w/PK
1 nob w/ WAAAGH banner
1 dakka jet w/ 6 supa shootas

Super heavy det +3 CP

Kill tank giga shoota 1 twin big shoota 2 racks of rokkits x3 987 points


Battalion det +3 CP

Ghaz 215
Weirdboy 62

Banner 79

Boyz x 10 BC nob 69 x 2 (kill tank)
Boyz x10 PK nob 85 (kill tank)
Boyz x20 pk nob 145 (wagon)

Wagon with rolla 180

904 +967 leaves 129 for fun stuff stil. Coukd drop a 69 point boyz squad leaving 196 points, and pack a kill tank with nobs or manz?


Kill tank x 3 seems solid, and so much dakka!

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:What does he have available?

I don't want to be answering with 'buy more models'

koooaei wrote:There's no universal advice on how to run your forces cause every situation requires a different approach. We can't just "drop in and kill everything with undercosted weapons". You got to use tactics. Sometimes you need to concentrate your forces, sometimes you just need to spread out and tarpit as much as possible. Sometimes, you need both. Or just try to survive and score or deny ground. So, what is he fielding? What armies and playstyles are problematic to deal with for him?

* Forgive me on names, orks are not my strongest knowledge base :p

First game he played against me (Ynnari), he ran, 3x30 boyz.. 2x big mek? with kustom force field, 2x 10 tank bustas in Trukks, some # of flamer guys in a trukk, and I think a warboss, oh and a squad of lootas. This was a power level game 100 points, the day the rulebook came out. It was a bad time for the orks. Flamers did work on anything they touched so largely i tried to kite them. The tank bustas couldnt touch my serpants, but wiped bikes out like crazy. I used terrain to split his force and took on one boyz squad at a time (used Str from death to charge his first blob which stopped his turn charge on my force).

Next few games I did not watch myself. I think he ran a variation of that first list at 2000 points. And then ran another list with Kan spam, I think against IG, and got totally wrecked.

He has a ton of models available (except the gork/mork model) I think part of the issue is he is not a fan of speed freakz and when i looked at the index, many of the models falling into that category (bikes, dakkajets, deff koptas) seemed really good.

Thanks for taking the time.

honestly Eldar are kind of an ork counter. orks are not exactly quick and while they throw out buckets of dice it is mostly str 4 with no AP so against anything T5 or higher they have even more issues (and forget T8+) for a toughness 4 model with a 3+ save we need 10 attacks to get 1.01 wound (10 x .66 hits x .5 wound x .33 failed) granted this is only 3.3 orks with choppas worth of attacks but they have to get there so you need 17 boys in combat with 5 space marines to reliably wipe them (this is before claw)

Ghaz would help him daisy chaining back for an extra attack and he hits like a truck himself. weirdboy can also teleport ghaz up so they catch him.

All that said if you run elder mechanized your friend really does not stand a chance without playing some dakka jets or battlewagons and even then it is going to be an uphill battle