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 warhead01 wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the Mek Guns and Big Guns errata. Is it saying 1 Big Gun and 2 Krew are 2 units? and if so what happens when you add another Big gun and another Krew? is that now 4 units?

The big gun and crew is now one unit where it before was two?

Edit: The other way around, its just plain dumb!

5 Kannons with crew will be 10 killpoints! Way to go...

Has there been anything definitive on whether Ammo Runts work when they are embarked in an ope-topped transport? The way I read it they do, but I was wrong about the Mobile Fortress rule so I might be wrong about this one.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Who prefers Power Klaws over Big Choppas for Nobz in Boyz squads?

I'm not entirely sold on power klaws in general. The extra strength and AP are nice, but the extra cost, -1 to hit, and d3 damage are all turn-offs. I'll probably still include PKs in boyz squads, as long as I can also get banner coverage.
As far as Nob squads go, I'm thinking either all big choppas or all power stabbas. Power stabbas seem like a bargain at only 3 pts for AP -2 on 3 S5 attacks, essentially making them melee Flash Gitz that have better saves, a better chance to hit, and still cost considerably less. PKs seem dubious in Nob squads, as the extra cost makes them almost as expensive as Meganobz, but they miss out on all the other benefits.
Another (costly) option I've been considering is a full unit of Nobz with Kombi-skorchas and ammo runts (for ablative wounds) in a battlewagon. Drive them up to, well, pretty much anything, and watch it melt away under 10d6 heavy flamer auto-hits, followed by the Nobs considerable charge. Costly, but potentially very effective. Math will be required.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
From the FAQ:

Q. The Ork Battlewagon’s Mobile Fortress ability says the Battlewagon ‘ignores the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons’. Its Open-topped ability says that ‘restrictions and modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers’. Does that mean that a unit embarked also ignores the penalty for firing Heavy weapons if the battlewagon has moved? A. No.

Bummer.

Well, that's the final nail in the coffin for Flash Gitz, then. With Lootas still having random shots (blech), and Tankbustas being a bit too costly for how fragile they are (not to mention only getting re-rolls against vehicles), looks like our only reliable shooting options are Dakkajets and Big Gunz this edition.

 Grimdakka wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Who prefers Power Klaws over Big Choppas for Nobz in Boyz squads?

I'm not entirely sold on power klaws in general. The extra strength and AP are nice, but the extra cost, -1 to hit, and d3 damage are all turn-offs. I'll probably still include PKs in boyz squads, as long as I can also get banner coverage.
As far as Nob squads go, I'm thinking either all big choppas or all power stabbas. Power stabbas seem like a bargain at only 3 pts for AP -2 on 3 S5 attacks, essentially making them melee Flash Gitz that have better saves, a better chance to hit, and still cost considerably less. PKs seem dubious in Nob squads, as the extra cost makes them almost as expensive as Meganobz, but they miss out on all the other benefits.
Another (costly) option I've been considering is a full unit of Nobz with Kombi-skorchas and ammo runts (for ablative wounds) in a battlewagon. Drive them up to, well, pretty much anything, and watch it melt away under 10d6 heavy flamer auto-hits, followed by the Nobs considerable charge. Costly, but potentially very effective. Math will be required.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
From the FAQ:

Q. The Ork Battlewagon’s Mobile Fortress ability says the Battlewagon ‘ignores the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons’. Its Open-topped ability says that ‘restrictions and modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers’. Does that mean that a unit embarked also ignores the penalty for firing Heavy weapons if the battlewagon has moved? A. No.

Bummer.

Well, that's the final nail in the coffin for Flash Gitz, then. With Lootas still having random shots (blech), and Tankbustas being a bit too costly for how fragile they are (not to mention only getting re-rolls against vehicles), looks like our only reliable shooting options are Dakkajets and Big Gunz this edition.

Stay away from big guns, they will only give away huge amonts of (heavy support) kill points.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the Mek Guns and Big Guns errata. Is it saying 1 Big Gun and 2 Krew are 2 units? and if so what happens when you add another Big gun and another Krew? is that now 4 units?

The big gun and crew is now one unit where it before was two?

Edit: The other way around, its just plain dumb!

5 Kannons with crew will be 10 killpoints! Way to go...

OK, So all the big guns are one unit and the Krew are another unit
Not each Gun and Each Krew are their own units?

 koooaei wrote:
So, if you really want to abuse the system and get a bunch of free command points and discounted nobs, utilise the understrength units rule:
Troops: 1 boy nob, 1 grot - 9 pts for 2 troop slots
Elites: 1 kommando nob, 1 tankbusta nob, 1 burna - 39 pts for 3 slot fillers
Fast attack: 1 warbiker nob, 1 stormboy nob - 36 pts for 2 slot fillers
Heavy support: 1 grot gunner from big gun squad, 1 grot gunner from mek gun squad, 1 loota - 21 pts for 3 slot fillers

I guess there is absolutely no point to burnas now that we can take 2 burnas or 2 burnas and nob w big choppa in a kommandos squad for a whole lot less.
How I wish squig bombs was worded the same way... army of 200 squig bombs would be so broken.

 warhead01 wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the Mek Guns and Big Guns errata. Is it saying 1 Big Gun and 2 Krew are 2 units? and if so what happens when you add another Big gun and another Krew? is that now 4 units?

The big gun and crew is now one unit where it before was two?

Edit: The other way around, its just plain dumb!

5 Kannons with crew will be 10 killpoints! Way to go...

OK, So all the big guns are one unit and the Krew are another unit
Not each Gun and Each Krew are their own units?

‘From that point on, each Big Gun and each 2-model
group of Grot Gunners act as separate units.’

It seems like each gun and each crew is a separate unit, I am not a native english speaker so i might get it wrong.

Edit: Derp

 JohnU wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, if you really want to abuse the system and get a bunch of free command points and discounted nobs, utilise the understrength units rule:
Troops: 1 boy nob, 1 grot - 9 pts for 2 troop slots
Elites: 1 kommando nob, 1 tankbusta nob, 1 burna - 39 pts for 3 slot fillers
Fast attack: 1 warbiker nob, 1 stormboy nob - 36 pts for 2 slot fillers
Heavy support: 1 grot gunner from big gun squad, 1 grot gunner from mek gun squad, 1 loota - 21 pts for 3 slot fillers

You still have to pay the full points cost of the minimum sized unit (i.e. 10 boyz, 10 grots) even if you used an undersized unit so there's no point.

only for power points the new FAQ literally state you only pay points for what you take in match play.
It's an absurd ruling.

Yeesh, yeah I see it now. I don't expect TOs to let that stand, even if GW doesn't correct that.

gungo wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
So, if you really want to abuse the system and get a bunch of free command points and discounted nobs, utilise the understrength units rule:
Troops: 1 boy nob, 1 grot - 9 pts for 2 troop slots
Elites: 1 kommando nob, 1 tankbusta nob, 1 burna - 39 pts for 3 slot fillers
Fast attack: 1 warbiker nob, 1 stormboy nob - 36 pts for 2 slot fillers
Heavy support: 1 grot gunner from big gun squad, 1 grot gunner from mek gun squad, 1 loota - 21 pts for 3 slot fillers

You still have to pay the full points cost of the minimum sized unit (i.e. 10 boyz, 10 grots) even if you used an undersized unit so there's no point.

only for power points the new FAQ literally state you only pay points for what you take in match play.
It's an absurd ruling.

Can't you only take 1 understrength unit in an army, though?

1 of each type, so one boyz, one grots etc, as Koo laid out above.

My greenskin brothers! I bring wonderful news from the Imperium 2 FAQ!

"Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List Add the following rule: ‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.’ "

Now we don't have to keep comparing our stuff vs nothing but Tempestus Command Squads!

 Palleus wrote:
My greenskin brothers! I bring wonderful news from the Imperium 2 FAQ!

"Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List Add the following rule: ‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.’ "

Now we don't have to keep comparing our stuff vs nothing but Tempestus Command Squads!

Yeah, I'm glad they caught onto that at the very least. It was pretty silly seeing normal tempestus squads get replaced by wacky command squads flying everywhere.

1) Ork boyz are not really slower than Imperial Guardsmen. Ork boyz will generally advance when other factions will simply move, making Orks Boyz one of the faster infantry units in the game.

2) I will only put a Power Klaw on warbosses. Anything else either has only three attacks or can take a killsaw. Nobs of all kinds are better served with big Choppas. Meks and painboys with klaws.

3) The FAQ really changes very little. Flash Gits were already too expensive, and wagons really ought to be hardtopped in this edition.

4) Any list should now have a lone tankbusta nob with tankbustabombs: Grenade D3, S8, AP -2, Damage D6. Reroll against vehicles.

5) 3 Mek Gunz are now confirmed to deploy as a single unit, but consist of six separate units for the duration of the game. This is very neat when playing for objective capture, but will suck when playing killpoints. But killpoints already sucked.

At least now those goofy VSG lists I had can just take KFF meks and save lots of points...

 JohnU wrote:
1 of each type, so one boyz, one grots etc, as Koo laid out above.

I don't think you're supposed to use it unless you literally don't have the models to fill out a minimum sized unit. In fact, by RAW you can only do it if you physically lack the models.



I think it's pretty clear that the intention is to allow people to field their models even if they don't have enough for whatever reason, not something to game list-building around.

Bigdoza wrote:
Ow, battlewagon mobile fortress does not affect passengers per FAQ.

-1 to hit on Heavy weapons if it moves, yuck!

So basically, Orks get nothing this edition - I don't know why I'm surprised.

Was Ork shooting REALLY that overpowered in a battlewagon on the move? No - again, it's Ork shooting, it's not going to be effective regardless.

Anyways, glad I didn't go all in this edition; this FAQ really shows how much GW care (don't) about Xenos.

What ? Imperium shenanigans where nerfed much worse than the battlewagon FAQ which honestly only worked with flashgits. As I said before flash ghits only be worth thier points once they get 4+ armour and badrukk rerolls wounds of 1 not hits.

The scion command squad nerf was needed but honestly no where near enough to dethrone them. Plasmagun is unbalanced. It completely overshadows grenade launchers vs both horde and krak grenades and that's even with out obercharged. And even outperforms melta guns vs most vehicles during deepstrike for like half the cost.
Imho plasma gun/plasma pistols need to be changed to str6 and str7 overcharged. This makes it the anti MC light vehicle weapon it should be without overshadowing meltaguns or grenade launchers as badly. Or they can drastically increase the cost of plasma guns by 2pts each.

fe40k wrote:

Bigdoza wrote:
Ow, battlewagon mobile fortress does not affect passengers per FAQ.

-1 to hit on Heavy weapons if it moves, yuck!

So basically, Orks get nothing this edition - I don't know why I'm surprised.

Was Ork shooting REALLY that overpowered in a battlewagon on the move? No - again, it's Ork shooting, it's not going to be effective regardless.

Anyways, glad I didn't go all in this edition; this FAQ really shows how much GW care (don't) about Xenos.

Yup. I am reminded of all those who said that this edition orks were going to be top tier. And that clown at FLG who said orks were going to be doing great, and the stompa was awesome and Kanz were amazing....Jesus

Orks are still strong this edition. Not tier 1 but still very competitve. Other then like ~5 specific spam lists (scion/taurox spam, stormraven spam, conscript spam, tau drone commander spam(just nerfed a bit), guiliman circle of death, maybe ynnari and then orks boy spam lists.

That's not exactly a bad spot considering all the other armies that are much worse off then orks And the nerfs will continue to slowlly come in to overpowered unit's. I still expect plasmaguns to go up in price.

orks are WAAAAY better than 7th, which isnt saying much, but also says alot.i played a game today with lots of trukk boy units, not giant mobs, and still only lost one unit the entire game off bad morale. Most of the time, just having 10 boyz nearby was enough. and if not, use a command point reroll on your d6.

I had lootaz blowing terminators away. 2 damage means insta death. Then a unit of 8 or so tied up those terminators for 2 turns in close combat. And that would have never occured in 7th. No more swept in combat is a godsend.

I took Ghaz, a second warboss, and a wyrdboy. Second warboss didnt do anything (at all literally) this game, but I know in certain match ups it would be helpful to have a back up.

Regarding powerklaws, in my meta combi-skorchas do much better, i think. Anything heavy gets left to tankbustas and bubblechukkas+luck.

So been looking over the FW dex;

Grot tanks seem like they could be pretty decent. At 30ppm and min squad of 4 your looking at 120 base, but a KMB is only 9 points. I know the general math on a KMB sucks balls, but at 39 points for a bs4+ platform with a 6+ invun they could be quite useful for spamming cheap suicide tanks. They also get a free shoota as far as i can tell.

The grot mega-tank also looks tasty. 85pts and you need to give it 5 sets of weapons. load it up with KMB's and its one hell of a plasma suicide machine! Also if you roll dat sweet 6, you drop split fire but literally can't roll 1's. (as its add 1 to hit rolls.).

So why I think there is a place for KMB's in squads of Kanz,grot tanks... They are only 9ppm.. and that simply becomes the first model you remove. If you have say 6 kanz all with rokkits your looking at some damn expensive kanz. Give 2 KMB's and you have the first couple models your going to remove. Stick a mek next to them for repairs. May not be the most brokenly OP units, but I think Mixed gun units are going to be the way for anything walker related.

6 kanz; two rokkits, two KMB's, two Skorchas. Basically gives you the versatility to remove the kanz that are the least effective against what your playing. Get lucky first round and kill off most of his vehicles, then you save the skorcha's till last. Full mech list? dump those skorchas!

Big trakk also seems good. plenty of options. And now considering mobile fortress is definitely dead, why would you take heavy weapons on a BW when you have the FW versions.

Solar Shock wrote:
So been looking over the FW dex;

Grot tanks seem like they could be pretty decent. At 30ppm and min squad of 4 your looking at 120 base, but a KMB is only 9 points. I know the general math on a KMB sucks balls, but at 39 points for a bs4+ platform with a 6+ invun they could be quite useful for spamming cheap suicide tanks. They also get a free shoota as far as i can tell.

The grot mega-tank also looks tasty. 85pts and you need to give it 5 sets of weapons. load it up with KMB's and its one hell of a plasma suicide machine! Also if you roll dat sweet 6, you drop split fire but literally can't roll 1's. (as its add 1 to hit rolls.).

So why I think there is a place for KMB's in squads of Kanz,grot tanks... They are only 9ppm.. and that simply becomes the first model you remove. If you have say 6 kanz all with rokkits your looking at some damn expensive kanz. Give 2 KMB's and you have the first couple models your going to remove. Stick a mek next to them for repairs. May not be the most brokenly OP units, but I think Mixed gun units are going to be the way for anything walker related.

6 kanz; two rokkits, two KMB's, two Skorchas. Basically gives you the versatility to remove the kanz that are the least effective against what your playing. Get lucky first round and kill off most of his vehicles, then you save the skorcha's till last. Full mech list? dump those skorchas!

Big trakk also seems good. plenty of options. And now considering mobile fortress is definitely dead, why would you take heavy weapons on a BW when you have the FW versions.

Are Grot Tanks/Megatanks better than straight Mek Gun: Kustom Mega Kannons? The Grot tanks with KMB have 2 less wounds (and that's excluding the Grot Gunners), but are a lot more mobile - that said, the KMK has an extra 12" range and d6 shots, so... The Megatank has 3 more wounds and 1 more toughness; with a 17% chance of doing nothing in the shooting phase, and a 17% chance of getting +1BS. However, the tanks in general are a 4+ save as opposed to a 5+ save, which is something small arms fire (but nothing to the anti-vehicle guns that'll be targeted their way). The tanks are also a little cheaper pointswise, which is nice too.

Overall, the Mek Gun batteries appear far more survivable, as each gun is a seperate unit for the shooting phase, it can lead Devastator squads and such to underkill or overkill single Mek Guns. That said, they feed a LOT more kill points since each Gun+Grot squad counts as two squads, therefore two kill points.

But, d6 shots is super nice. Is it better than +1Sv and general mobility? I suppose it really depends on the rest of the army, the opponent, and the terrain in general.

I think MG:KMK batteries > Grot Tanks generally, but Megatanks may be a decent alternative.

Big thanks to everyone contributing since the dawn of the new edition, I'm only able to play irregularly so not been able to get much hands on experience so far but the insight in here has been very interesting. During my list-crafting I'm finding it difficult to include anything other than Boyz, when I do it's just for flavour, nothing else seems particularly points efficient except for Nobz with Big Choppa or Power Stabbas, but those need a ride that itself isn't particularly points efficient or synergistic with the Boyz.

Anyway, I was dropping by to ask for clarification on something regarding the FAQ - am I right in thinking that for a vehicle to gain the benefit of a KFF the vehicle's hull has to be entirely within 9" of the Big Mek, rather than being partially covered? A unit of Boyz has to have each model in the unit entirely within 9" of the Big Mek, rather than each model being at least partially within 9"?

xlDuke wrote:
Big thanks to everyone contributing since the dawn of the new edition, I'm only able to play irregularly so not been able to get much hands on experience so far but the insight in here has been very interesting. During my list-crafting I'm finding it difficult to include anything other than Boyz, when I do it's just for flavour, nothing else seems particularly points efficient except for Nobz with Big Choppa or Power Stabbas, but those need a ride that itself isn't particularly points efficient or synergistic with the Boyz.

Anyway, I was dropping by to ask for clarification on something regarding the FAQ - am I right in thinking that for a vehicle to gain the benefit of a KFF the vehicle's hull has to be entirely within 9" of the Big Mek, rather than being partially covered? A unit of Boyz has to have each model in the unit entirely within 9" of the Big Mek, rather than each model being at least partially within 9"?

It's a little weird, but a unit counts as "entirely within" the KFF if every base in it's unit is at least partially in the field - for vehicles, since they are often a "unit" of 1, they only need a sliver of the base to be within the 9" to be considered "entirely within" - squads with multiple models/bases such as Boyz need a portion of EVERY base to be in the 9" bubble for them to get the benefit.

Yeah, to be covered a single model must be under the bubble at least with a tiny part of its base or body/hull (if it donesn't have a base), but every model in the unit has to be within 9''. That' why the KFF is not great to shield boyz, but it can be quite helpful if it gives the invuln to vehicles and walkers.

I'm currently playing with a battlewagon and a trukk plus some artilley, biker characters (including a big mek with KFF) and kommandos: the KFF can protect 2 BWs while the other wagon and the trukk seek cover in my deployment zone. 3 vehicles can easily be covered by the KFF but you may want to spread your army across the table.

Models that have 10+ wounds and just need to be alive in the first 2 turns can really benefit from a KFF.

Thanks fe50k and Blackie, so that's the generally agreed understand of the rule then? I'm finding the rules are generally easy to understand but the wording throws me off slightly on some of them, re-rolls and modifiers as well - probably because I haven't had a chance to see it occur on the table yet. I'll probably run a Big Mek on Warbike with KFF alongside my mech lists then because he'll be able to cover a couple of Battlewagons and Trukks fairly easily for the first turn or two. Much obliged!

I feel like Grot Tanks have suffered from the transition quite a bit. Dont know that they aren't viable still though.
I used to run 3 with Grotzookas, they could be pretty devastating and the 5++ saved them so many times. They'd sort of loiter about not moving much then suddenly scoot up and rain merry death, taking a couple turns to get rid of.
Now I feel like they just loiter about not doing much at all and seem less survivable somehow... So I raided my bits, got my tools out and glued them all together for a Kill Tank (with pre-attached riggers).
I think Guns take a bit more consideration to shoot off the board, depending on placement.