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 Vineheart01 wrote:

Has anyone found the rules for a mega dread?

Nope.

 Blackie wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:


Why did you embark lootas? They have a 48'' range, they don't need to move. Lootas should stay in cover and fire for the entire game. They have the range to do so and hitting on 5s is much better than on 6s. Use 2-3 min units in cover but add some other shooty squads like tankbustas in trukks. Lootas are still decent but, like any other ork shooty unit, far from being great.

My lootas are well known by my regular ooponents as higher target priority that other stuff. In every game I haven't embarked them they get turn 1 deep struck and shot then flee or just straight die.

But if in a trukk I don't even move the trukk unless I have to so no loss there

Ok, but with a trukk they become way too expensive just for an extra protection, with the same amount of points you can add 5 other lootas. A 10-15 man unit of lootas is a high priority target, 2-4 units of 5 aren't. The key with lootas is to keep them MSU so you opponent may ignore them or he can target them with multiple units since they can be spammed in the entire ork deployment zone. Lootas are supposed to fire 2-3 turns, the time your close combat units need to assault.

MSU is not optimal for lootas. Getting atleast 2-3 shots with a full squad is the ticket. Trukk caps them at 12 and also is expensive as a "shield" I usually just place them as high up a piece of terrain as I can way in the back. 48" range is pretty damn long. Or just deploy them in the biggest pain in the ass piece of terrain to discourage charges. >_<

 Nithaniel wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
Minimum squads of lootas and burnas are the wrong way to go. With maximum squads, it becomes worth it to use a CP to increase their output. Since number of shots is a single roll, using a CP to reroll 1s for number of shots increases the output of the whole squad by 1/6 and heavily weighting the number of shots away from 1. A general rule of thumb is that you need 2 CP in your list dedicated to each squad of burnas and lootas you include.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe 1 CP for burnas. They aren't likely to shoot more than 3 times in a game. Lootas shooting 6 times a game is also a bit optimistic.

This makes total sense, thanks! I'm still in 7th thinking but of course you can still split fire the squad should you need to so bigger squads it is!

Obviosuly you'd have to specify targets for the squad prior to rolling/re-rolling number of shots though. Its rough on orks because those CP are so valuable for that time your 30 strong squad takes huge casualties.

I've never needed the 2 CP for auto-passing a moral check on a boyz mob because there is either a warboss (or Thrakka) nearby reducing those casualties to d3 anyways or you don't save enough boyz to make it worth the points. Also keep in mind that the banner nob also saves every sixth ork killed by moral. Not game breaking, but he tends to save three or four boyz per turn that way, which means nine to twelve additional 2+ attacks in combat.

The only time I've used the auto-pass for morale was on gretchin when opponents killed just enough to wipe them through morale. I saved minimum 13 gretchin that way and he still had to deal with them shutting down his shooting and them being in the way of his vehicles, while also he was denied a dead unit for his maelstrom objective. Bonus is that next time they make sure to kill gretchin to the last grot, and anything shooting gretchin is not shooting anything else.

Speaking of, which were the most cunnin' uses of CP you made so far? Here is my list:
- 17 gretchin auto-passing morale after 13 casualties, leaving them all allive
- Re-rolling a failed to wound rolls for Thrakka against a vehicle, to have another 3 damage wound that needed saving
- Calling counter-attack stratagem against a space marine dread (there was another charge on the other side of the board). The slugga boyz ruined it before it even got to strike

 Frozocrone wrote:
Any one like using Shoota boyz?

Slugga Boyz seem like the be all and end all but I'm kind of thinking of building one of my Boyz mobs as a 30 Shoota squad and teleporting it with a Weirdboy.

Fluffy ish too, since I'm doing my Orks as Bad Moons and Bad Moons need all the dakka.

I play Shootas with a weirdboy, they're great. People underestimate the shooting and obviously the assault afterwards is good too.

 Sledgio wrote:
Ah, did I only miss the Grot Gunners? So it's 48 then?

You've got it now.

Wonder if trukk orks is still viable. Just use nobz instead of boyz.
60 nobz with stabbas has got to do some damage.

I think one thing I'm struggling with are painboyz and waaagh banners.

Both give great aoe buffs, but the problem is that when units start charging and piling in and consolidating, I find that the buffing non-combat units get left behind and can't reasonably catch up.

Yes, you can conga line units back to the buffers but......that seems like a dumb way to play.

Painboyz, at least, can take a bike, which seems to me to be the only way to take them. But the waaagh banner isn't so lucky.

Perhaps put them in a vehicle, and pop them out when necessary?

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
the buffing non-combat units get left behind and can't reasonably catch up.

This is a big problem, also pretty much my main reason for putting bosses on bikez, so they don't get left behind too!

Da trukks iz too expensive for that. Have grotz at da rear of da formation, when da boyz go to work, da little gitz advance and wrap the bannerz, doks, and weirdgitz. Can't be charged or shot at because characters.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I think one thing I'm struggling with are painboyz and waaagh banners.

Both give great aoe buffs, but the problem is that when units start charging and piling in and consolidating, I find that the buffing non-combat units get left behind and can't reasonably catch up.

Yes, you can conga line units back to the buffers but......that seems like a dumb way to play.

Painboyz, at least, can take a bike, which seems to me to be the only way to take them. But the waaagh banner isn't so lucky.

Perhaps put them in a vehicle, and pop them out when necessary?

This is the common approach I think. One or two warbosses on bikes, and a single trukk with all the weirdboyz, bruce banner and grotsnik. Meks can footslog, their buff less critical when close combat is joined.

The trukk of characters can deploy in a single drop, and two weirdboyz can disembark on the first turn before movement.

 Stoffer wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Any one like using Shoota boyz?

Slugga Boyz seem like the be all and end all but I'm kind of thinking of building one of my Boyz mobs as a 30 Shoota squad and teleporting it with a Weirdboy.

Fluffy ish too, since I'm doing my Orks as Bad Moons and Bad Moons need all the dakka.

I play Shootas with a weirdboy, they're great. People underestimate the shooting and obviously the assault afterwards is good too.

Also it takes a fair bit of shooting to eliminate 31 T4 wounds. Lots of armies can do this, but them focusing on a tenth of your army helps elsewhere.

If the blob is enough of a threat, multi-trukk lists are left mainly unscathed. Either way turn 2 still sucks for the enemy.

I'm thinking of slowly starting to build up a Super Heavy detachment of Kill Tanks with either Slugga Boyz or maybe Burna Boyz riding on them. I figure I could get a Super Heavy Detachment and a Patrol Detachment with KFF Big Meks (at least one on a warbike, I'm not sure if I have the points for two on bikes). Of course, by the time I save up for 4-5 Kill Tanks and get them assembled and painted I figure either the Ork Codex will be out and things might need to be re-thought, or Super Heavies and/or Forge World will be limited at Tournaments.

I'm still going to collect a bunch of them, as they're rad, but I'm not going to try to rush it.

Do you think an old Forge World Deff Rolla Battle Fortress would be an acceptable "counts as" for a Kill Blasta?

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm thinking of slowly starting to build up a Super Heavy detachment of Kill Tanks with either Slugga Boyz or maybe Burna Boyz riding on them. I figure I could get a Super Heavy Detachment and a Patrol Detachment with KFF Big Meks (at least one on a warbike, I'm not sure if I have the points for two on bikes). Of course, by the time I save up for 4-5 Kill Tanks and get them assembled and painted I figure either the Ork Codex will be out and things might need to be re-thought, or Super Heavies and/or Forge World will be limited at Tournaments.

I'm still going to collect a bunch of them, as they're rad, but I'm not going to try to rush it.

Do you think an old Forge World Deff Rolla Battle Fortress would be an acceptable "counts as" for a Kill Blasta?

Buy 3-4 various tank kits from whatever faction you like and just build something thats the right dimensions.Buy some plasticard (5mm is great for building a base shape), build a rough shape and add stuff to the outside. Here's something I did as an experiment. I used plasticard to build a base frame, then using greenstuff mixed with milliput (cheaper than green stuff and adds decent qualities), I basically made imprints from GW shapes to build the outside.
I've never had any complaints running it and no one has ever realised its not made from plastic.
I run all my vehicles as count-as and i've never had a real issue. "hey these 4 really large tanks... that make up my entire army... they are kill tanks".
Not a lot they can really say, your army doesn't have anything else that they could confused it with. I would LOVE to play against 4 kill tanks. So come my way and we'll have a game!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With regards to grots.
As far as i can tell, if I teleport them, there is nothing preventing me from placing them any way I like; so long as 9" away from enemy and within unit coherency?
So using grots you can effectively just conga line and take up huge board space? Basically im thinking of using teleporting grots to make it difficult for the enemy to get around to various objectives while I use koptas to zip around grabbing points?

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I think one thing I'm struggling with are painboyz and waaagh banners.

Both give great aoe buffs, but the problem is that when units start charging and piling in and consolidating, I find that the buffing non-combat units get left behind and can't reasonably catch up.

Yes, you can conga line units back to the buffers but......that seems like a dumb way to play.

Painboyz, at least, can take a bike, which seems to me to be the only way to take them. But the waaagh banner isn't so lucky.

Perhaps put them in a vehicle, and pop them out when necessary?

I've solved this problem by putting the AOE buffers inside the footprint of the boyz squad and then when you roll to charge you only have to move one ork within 1" then the rest move around the painboy leaving a clear line for the painboy/nob to achieve assault as well.

This only works for single squads. Its pretty hard to retain buffs on multiple squads simultaneously without conga lining.

you have to abuse the rules for pile in.

What are the best ways to mitigate Ld problems in a large group of Kanz? If you lose one Kan it's a 33% chance to lose another one.

 Rismonite wrote:
What are the best ways to mitigate Ld problems in a large group of Kanz? If you lose one Kan it's a 33% chance to lose another one.

One way is to spend 1 CP rerolling when you have lost a kan, or spend two CP auto-passing when you have lost more than one. Another option is to keep a banner nob nearby. He will buff the kans i close combat (by a whopping +50%), and he provides a 6+ save against fleeing kans. Really good. Another solution is to keep a warboss nearby. Then you can convert a failed morale test into D3 mortal wounds.

 Rismonite wrote:
What are the best ways to mitigate Ld problems in a large group of Kanz? If you lose one Kan it's a 33% chance to lose another one.

It isn't quite as bad as you are indicating. Losing 1 Kan gives you a 1/6 chance of losing an additional Kan (they are LD 6, so 1 casualty makes your roll D6+1, so on a 6 you lose one model), now if you lose 2 Kans things can really go south.

The ways I can see to mitigate this is are

1.) A warboss makes them lose D3 Mortal wounds instead of a casualty, so assuming you don't have a second Kan with only 3 wounds remaining.
2.) Using Command points to auto pass or re-roll the morale roll. If you lose a bunch of kans ( If you have 6 and lost 4, an auto pass might be worth your CP)
3.) Give your warlord the Inspiring leader trait, and keep him near your kans A Warboss is LD8, a Mega Armoured Big Mek is the same, a few others are 7. So this means you can take 1 or 2 casualties and still be immune to morale.
4.) Not great but a Nob, can save them on a 6+

Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

pismakron wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

Oh sorry I meant for CC

pismakron wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

Yep. The only advantage of grots is pistols which can shoot in combat, and be "Surprisingly Effective" with marine BS.

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

That is fairly cheap (60 points), but it only averages 4.4 wounds (pre save) against T4 and 5, any thing above T5 it drops to 2.2. So it is better than equivalent points of shoota boyz (they do 3.3 wounds against T4 and 2.2 against T5-7). The issue is that unless you are spamming wagons it does not make efficient use of their transport capacity


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pismakron wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

They actually have a lower damage out-put unless we include close combat.

pismakron wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

I think the point was that the grots are still able to shoot their pistols at the unit the battlewagon is in combat with. Shootas won't be able to do this.

It sounds like a fun idea!

Okay, I learned something there.

tilds wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

I think the point was that the grots are still able to shoot their pistols at the unit the battlewagon is in combat with. Shootas won't be able to do this.

It sounds like a fun idea!

Good Point if you wanted to make the battle wagon just a charge into CC unit, that has some potential (essentially 10 S3 hits on average). The issue is that it relies on your opponent not falling back from combat in their turn. It also requires not taking the Ard case, which I think is fairly desirable for a Close combat wagon.

Breng77 wrote:

tilds wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
Thanks for thoughts.

Also, Battlewagon with Rolla, if you wanted to design it to slam into light and medium infantry, how would a squad of 20 grots on board sound? At twenty they are BS 3+, it would almost be like the battlewagon suddenly had two Str3 flamers.

A squad of 10 shootas cost the same and has a much, much higher damage output.

I think the point was that the grots are still able to shoot their pistols at the unit the battlewagon is in combat with. Shootas won't be able to do this.

It sounds like a fun idea!

Good Point if you wanted to make the battle wagon just a charge into CC unit, that has some potential (essentially 10 S3 hits on average). The issue is that it relies on your opponent not falling back from combat in their turn. It also requires not taking the Ard case, which I think is fairly desirable for a Close combat wagon.

It is actually 13.3 hits on average since the grots get +1 to hit when they are 20 or more models, but yes you are right about the 'ard case.

Solar Shock wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Spoiler:

I'm thinking of slowly starting to build up a Super Heavy detachment of Kill Tanks with either Slugga Boyz or maybe Burna Boyz riding on them. I figure I could get a Super Heavy Detachment and a Patrol Detachment with KFF Big Meks (at least one on a warbike, I'm not sure if I have the points for two on bikes). Of course, by the time I save up for 4-5 Kill Tanks and get them assembled and painted I figure either the Ork Codex will be out and things might need to be re-thought, or Super Heavies and/or Forge World will be limited at Tournaments.

I'm still going to collect a bunch of them, as they're rad, but I'm not going to try to rush it.

Do you think an old Forge World Deff Rolla Battle Fortress would be an acceptable "counts as" for a Kill Blasta?

Buy 3-4 various tank kits from whatever faction you like and just build something thats the right dimensions.Buy some plasticard (5mm is great for building a base shape), build a rough shape and add stuff to the outside. Here's something I did as an experiment. I used plasticard to build a base frame, then using greenstuff mixed with milliput (cheaper than green stuff and adds decent qualities), I basically made imprints from GW shapes to build the outside.

Spoiler:

I've never had any complaints running it and no one has ever realised its not made from plastic.
I run all my vehicles as count-as and i've never had a real issue. "hey these 4 really large tanks... that make up my entire army... they are kill tanks".
Not a lot they can really say, your army doesn't have anything else that they could confused it with. I would LOVE to play against 4 kill tanks. So come my way and we'll have a game!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That looks great!

I'll definitely have to scratch build and converst some, as 4-5 that looked pretty much exactly the same would be pretty un-orky.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Wonder if trukk orks is still viable. Just use nobz instead of boyz.

I've been thinking of this for a while. Get a full group of Nobz (slugga choppa or Big choppa) add 1x Warboss and 1x Painboy (or Banner). When the trukk blows you lose 2 nobz on average. Not sure how the points stack up as you're putting 295 points into a trukk and charging it as fast as you can. The Nobz are 170 points + warboss 85 + Painboy 40. Haven't had a chance to try it out but it's on my list.

 Smushed wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Wonder if trukk orks is still viable. Just use nobz instead of boyz.

I've been thinking of this for a while. Get a full group of Nobz (slugga choppa or Big choppa) add 1x Warboss and 1x Painboy (or Banner). When the trukk blows you lose 2 nobz on average. Not sure how the points stack up as you're putting 295 points into a trukk and charging it as fast as you can. The Nobz are 170 points + warboss 85 + Painboy 40. Haven't had a chance to try it out but it's on my list.

Couldn't you just take 2 ammo runts on the Nobz and eat the wounds on those for the trukk explosion. 4 points a piece isn't alot.

Nobz really only seem worth it with Big Choppas, with slugga choppa they are just so expensive (almost 3x boyz). Sure they can fit in a truck, but 170 points. Gets you 30 S5 attacks and 20 T4 4+ save wounds, instead of 28 Boyz (with boss nob) getting you 4 S 5 attacks, 108 S 4 attacks, and 29 6+ Save wounds.

So you gain durability by a little (takes 120 Bolter shots to kill the Nobz vs 104 For the boyz, however against multi damage weapons Nobz lose a lot) but give up a lot of offense. Nobz do 4.4 wounds to marines, Boyz to 13ish. You do gain mobility from the trukk, So if you want to try a trukk rush Nobz could be ok

Got bored. Bumped my Deff Rolla wagon with 'ard case into a Deff Dread 3klaw/1skorcha repeatedly, maybe 12 times. Deff Dread didn't win once. At 30 points cheaper because it is not a transport, and with D3 damage for high wound targets like wagonz, it was surprising the dread never won. Really the deff rolla hitting on 2's and wounding on 3's seems good just in comparison to our Dread whi has two less attacks, and all this not mentioning the Wagonz move speed or transport capacity vs the dread. Battlewagon seems a bargain, or deff dread is overcosted.

Poor walkerz